OverTheMoon21

To SooSad33, Lambert and all others who said that it shouldn't matter what he does in his spare time and with whom: you are right. I started the friendship with the knowledge that he will date others, and I was fine with it. The only exception is if he dated that woman again. First of all, because obviously he cheated on me with her. But even more importantly, because him saying that she was the biggest mistake of his life, that he got caught up in a fantasy that turned out to be a stupid mistake, was the reason I even spoke with him again. But if he is now again with her, it completely negates what he said when he asked for my forgiveness! It means he didn't think of her as a mistake, something else must have happened between them that they broke up and then he used me as a pass-time because she wasn't available. It puts a completely different spin on things, and it also means the friendship I thought we had for the past year was as fake as the previous relationship! I meant it when I said I was going to be just fine with him dating, I have gone on dates too. But I am never going to be ok with him dating HER! As for the contact, it was all him. I never asked him to contact me at all, let alone so often. I was set in my ways and it often even bothered me that he kept calling, I was running out of topics to discuss. I never expected him to be in touch so often, it wasn't my idea. I only contacted him 3 times the whole year. But this is why it was so obvious when things changed last week, I couldn't NOT notice. To Kwothe28 - you're spot on about the gaslighting, he used to do plenty of that before, and I suppose that's what pissed me off now again - I recognize the same pattern and I thought (hoped) I'd never see it again. I sincerely never wanted to get back together with him in that way, but I guess I did get used to having him around all the time so I couldn't not notice when he wasn't. Also, the silly lie he told me annoyed me to no end, because it insulted my intelligence. It was the kind of excuse that makes you feel stupid for even pretending to believe it. You are all right, he is not the type of friend I (or anyone) should keep in their life. Plus if someone is willing to throw away years' worth of friendship at the slightest argument, how good of a friend could they have been? I have always been the one to run after him in the past, apologizing for things I hadn't done but he had accused me of doing. Whenever he wanted time away from me (which now I know was so he could be with that woman), he'd use something I said to start a fight, then he'd ignore me for a few days, then he'd "forgive" me - lather rinse repeat. I have a feeling he wanted to get back to that sick routine again, even in friendship. I guess some things never change. But nope, not this time. I gave him a chance thinking he has changed and grown up, but clearly this is not the case. I am done.

Thank you for sharing your story, it does help! His friendship did add value to my life, in the sense that he is one of 2 people that I know who share my beliefs on a few topics the world is confronting with these days. So I have been comfortable discussing stuff that I can't discuss with most others. But it is a lopsided friendship, indeed. For example, not long ago I realized he had no idea when my birthday was! Like, he didn't even remember the month! Which wouldn't be as unforgiveable as a new-ish friend, but given that he spent 3 of them with me when we were in a relationship, I expected more. Sure we didn't talk for one year, but I still remembered his! My definition of a friendship is similar to yours. I don't have proof that he lied to me, of course, but it's a strong hunch. And it bothers me because I can't understand why he'd hide such an important aspect from his life from me, when I would have no issues talking to him about my own dates!

The very same man! I have to say, it was interesting re-reading that post. I wish I could remember what exactly had led to it, but it sounds like more of the same (minus the fight). I have to say, ever since that post he exceeded my expectations, things went smoothly all these months and we had no other argument. He truly acted like a good, normal friend. He didn't hit on me, he was always respectful, he was tons better than he had ever been as a boyfriend. Up until now, when that side of him resurfaced and it took me aback because I wasn't expecting it.

Noooo, no way! The mere thought of kissing him, let alone being intimate with him, gives me shivers down my spine (and not the good type lol). When I decided to give friendship a chance, I knew with 100% certainty that the romantic side of things was dead. Seeing him in the midst of cheating accomplished that. Given his overreaction, I think you may be right, he may have used my reply as a reason to start a fight, for purposes that we can only assume.

Hi everyone, I am in need of objective opinions on a situation I am dealing with, as being in the middle of it isn't allowing me to see things clearly. As a background: I have known this guy for many years. We are not young, if that matters. We dated over a decade ago, he wasn't committing. A few years later we reconnected, had a 2.5 years relationship, he cheated with a woman who has been in his life on and off for probably longer than I was (I saw the cheating so there is no doubt about it), I ended the relationship. It's important to note that in spite of all his faults, on a friendship level we were awesome. Lots in common, even personality traits, similar preferences and interests, I don't think I ever had anyone in my life to vibe with as well as I did with him. This is important to note, because this is the reason why I always gave him chance after chance. One year later, which brings us to last winter, he reached out to me to apologize and he sounded sincere. He said that the pandemic had made him reconsider his life and priorities, and that he had been miserable without me and had spiraled out of control with weight gain, massive drinking, and that the woman had been a mistake, she wasn't who he had really wanted, etc. He swore that if I considered having him as a friend, he would never lie to me again, he was going to do everything in his power to make it up to me. Now to me, cheating is a deal breaker, one that nobody can bounce back from. And by the time he reached out last year, all my romantic attachment to him had dissolved, I was perfectly fine with the thought of him dating others, so I figured maybe a friendship would work. I made it clear it was going to be a platonic friendship and he was ok with it, he said he wasn't interested in being with anyone anyway. So we started a friendship, which went extremely well. Here and there I felt like he was lying to me, especially about seeing someone (probably the same woman), although I couldn't understand why he would hide this aspect of his life when we were just friends and I had made sure he knew that him dating wasn't bothering me at all. I was going to date around too. For the past year he was always in touch, in the beginning he was calling me every single evening to chat about everything under the sun, then as months went by, he'd skip an evening here and there, but not more than 2 evenings went by without him calling. He called every single Friday and Saturday, so if he did have a woman, she couldn't have been anything serious. And he texted through the day, every day. We went out a few times, I went to his place for a drink and TV watching a few times, and he always was the perfect friend, never did anything disrespectful, so I was starting to think we had turned a page, that things were finally going well and that we were probably always supposed to be just friends and forcing a relationship was just a bad idea. Last Saturday we had plans to go try out a restaurant, but a few hours before we were to meet, he texted that we should make it a phone get together because the wife of a coworker of his (they work outdoors) had tested positive for CV-19 and he wanted to be safe. I didn't see anything odd about it, we had the usual 2 hour conversation, all was good. Sundays he never called anyway, but then his Monday morning texts seemed off and he didn't call at night - I still didn't think much of it. Tuesday went by and there was no text or call. Wednesday he sent a brief text in the morning and it wasn't his usually cheery text, but I was busy at work and couldn't reply. I called him in the evening but there was no answer, which had never happened before. I started to worry something was off. Thursday morning he texted to say that he was sorry he'd missed my call, and gave me the silliest reason for it, one that a kid would not buy. This was typical of him in the past - every time he lied to me, his lies were so poorly thought out that I felt like he was insulting my intelligence. So this annoyed me - I would have been perfectly fine if he told me he had plans and had come home late - and I replied with "sure, I believe you lol". Then I reiterated that he could just be honest with me, if he had a date it was ok with me, we were friends so he should feel comfortable telling me the truth. Well, this set off the nasty side of him from the past - he became rude, accused me of attacking him, said that as a friend I should just trust him, not accuse him of lying, he basically flew off the handle and made me the bad guy (just like in the past, when I'd call him out on blatant lies and he'd always turn it around on me). And, he said the friendship was over and wished me a nice life. He ended the friendship just like that, and I was like....what on earth happened? To say that he overreacted would be an understatement. So my question is - was I at fault? Did what I said warrant him ending a friendship that he had told me thousands of times meant everything to him? He basically said, along the years, that I was the only person he ever opened up to, he could be himself around, I was like family to him. I believe this to be true. But do people drop close friends for a reason like the one I described? All I wanted was for him to be honest with me. Even if I was wrong in my assumption, he could have calmly explained this and moved on, especially since he is aware my trust in him is weak because of what he's done in the past. But end the friendship over this? I am sorry for the long post, and I hope you can make it through it all and offer your advice.

Very true! In my mind, I figured he would have zero reason to lie this time around so we could have the good friendship I had envisioned. He is single, so it goes without saying that he will date, he will have sex, etc. I expect that 100% and it doesn't bother me in the least, and he knows it. So then, why lie? He has way more to lose by lying (as I am now reconsidering the whole friendship thing) than if he told me the truth. I am not fond of people insulting my intelligence, because this is what I feel like he's doing, especially since he's also a very bad liar, you can tell right away when he's making stuff up. I don't know, maybe he is a compulsive liar and he can't help himself. I no longer want to spend time out of my life trying to figure him out, I have already wasted years doing so. I made up my mind, I will do a slow fade, because clearly my little idealistic picture of this pure, honest friendship is not going to materialize anytime soon.

This is what I intend to do as well, once things open up - join meetups and whatever other places that can help one meet new friends. I wish I did it pre-pandemic but I was too lazy and complacent.

Lol you make a good point, I haven't thought about it this way! The thing is that the day has to come when everything opens up, and when it does he is one of the 3 people I can actually do things with in person. But really, I think it's mostly wishful thinking on my part. I envisioned us being able to have this successful friendship to replace the failed relationship, a friendship based on honesty and trust. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be the case, so I have to rethink everything :(

He is easy to talk to, and very available (because he doesn't have much else going in his life other than his work - no kids, no friends other than the woman I mentioned). I haven't been able to make any new friends in years, and those I did make proved to be about as unreliable as this guy or worse, so I kind of gave up on the idea of ever meeting worthwhile people to befriend.

You are 100% right, part of me feels like he doesn't deserve my time - mind you, I haven't seen him in person since we started talking 2 months ago, and I don't intend to, until the pandemic is over. But I guess even the fact that I agreed to staying friends gave him the false impression that what he's done in the past is water under the bridge, when it's not - the trust wasn't going to be there anyway, let alone now that I realize he continues to lie. The more I talk about this, the more I realize I need to reduce the contact slowly, until it fades completely. If he was honest with me about his life, I would have been interested in this friendship, yes. But he is not honest and this is not a friendship I am proud of. Darn lol.

I will most definitely date other men, but for the time being we are on strict lockdowns where I live which makes dating impossible.

You hit the nail on the head - yes, I don't have many friends especially now that we can't really go anywhere and see anyone - in fact, I have only one good, trustworthy friend and a couple of "fair weather" female friends who barely keep in touch because we can't do the one thing we have in common (that involves going out). So basically for the past year I have been talking to only one person, and now him, for the past 2 months. My family lives on a different continent, so my options for social contact are extremely limited.

Thank you for your reply, and yes, he will never change. I don't really expect much from him, but given that the relationship ended because of his lies, I would have hoped he'd be more sincere as a friend (he swore he would never lie to me again no matter what). I tend to avoid confrontation as much as possible, which is why I generally don't call out my female friends either when I know they aren't being truthful. I just hate being taken for a gullible fool when the reality is that I am extremely aware of the reality around me, but I have to pretend to be dim just to placate people and not embarrass them.

Hello everyone, I could really use some advice here. To give a brief rundown of the situation, I (F, 46) have this friend (M, 57) whom I really get along with, except for the fact that he lies. He might be a compulsive liar, I'm not sure. For full disclosure, we met about 12 years ago, dated briefly, he is not a settle-down type of person so it didn't work out, we didn't speak for years, then we reconnected again years later, dated for about 2 years, he cheated, I caught him, dumped him, we didn't speak again for over a year, then a couple of months ago he reached out to apologize and we decided to stay friends. I know you will ask me why on earth would I be friends with a guy who cheated - well, because in spite of the romantic aspect being a disaster, we have always been great friends. As in, he is the only person I feel comfortable chatting with about mostly everything under the sun, I can be myself with him, we have lots in common and share many of the same personality traits, and he feels the same way. I assume y'all will think I am still talking to him because I still have feelings for him, but let me reassure you - I don't. For me, nothing kills romantic feelings faster than cheating. I don't give second chances in such instances, which is why I was able and willing to try and maintain a friendship with him. I have completely moved on in my heart and mind, and there is nothing he could do to change that. The thought of him dating others doesn't bother me one bit, in fact I wish him the best and I'd be willing to befriend the woman, if the situation arose. The problem is that even though I made it clear from the moment he reached out to me, 2 months ago, that the only way for this friendship to work is for him to be truthful with me about everything, he still lies. He lied about the circumstances around his cheating (he claimed it was a one time thing when I know it was ongoing), which ok, I get it, he was embarrassed and tried to say whatever put him in a more positive light. But he is still lying about seeing that woman he cheated on me with, even though I know without a doubt that he still does. She has been his friend with benefits for over a decade, he didn't stop seeing her while he was with me, and I reckon he will never stop. Which I'm fine with, and I told him so. I do not care about his sex life, if he likes women like that so be it. I made it clear that I will be dating as well and that nothing romantic or sexual will ever happen between me and him (and I mean it), so I don't understand why he still feels the need to lie! The reason for my post is that last night he once again told me a fib, and it was such a bad lie that I got reminded how much I hate this character flaw of his. So, I'm confused as to what to do here. Him seeing the woman doesn't bother me at all, it doesn't affect my life in any way. So then, is there any point in confronting him about this issue and reiterating that unless he stops lying, I will walk away from this friendship? Or should I just let it go because it's none of my business? What bothers me is that he thinks I'm gullible when I'm quite the opposite of that, but I feel too embarrassed to call him out on his lies. On the other hand, I feel like he's insulting my intelligence when he lies, and it annoys me having to pretend I believe his lies and carry on as if it's ok. Also, his lying makes me think that he is holding on to some sort of hope that I will eventually get back together with him romantically and/or sexually, a thought that makes my skin crawl. I just don't see him as a man at this point, I see him as a female friend that I vent to and gab with. If any of you would like to share what you would do in my shoes, I'd be very grateful. Sure, ending the friendship is an option, one that I'm not too fond of at least not until the pandemic allows us to resume our lives as normal, because needless to say life is boring these days. Plus making friends is not easy at my age, and especially now with everything at a standstill. If you made it this far and read my post, I thank you and I am looking forward to hearing your thoughts :)