Shajenko

might be easier to give her your email instead

Yeah, this is great advice - if you never want to hear from her again. Women will not make the first move, you have to.

Just say "We should get together some time" and hand her your cell phone. Tell her to put her number in your phone. If she objects in any way, just tell her "don't worry about it" to whatever she says and motion to put her number in again. If she refuses, just take your phone back, leave, and forget her.

If she does put her number in your phone, call it immediately afterwards (in her presense), so that A) she'll have YOUR number, and B) you'll know whether she put her real number in or not. If it's fake, delete it and forget her.

I am a female and I totally agree with that - but it is circular because it presumes that there is one way to figure out who deserves to be punished

Hey, I didn't say I was perfect. It's just that some women make it so easy to tell that they deserve it.

(and implies that the poster is correct in determining that "all women" deserve to be punished)

Never once did I say "all women". Now who's the one putting words in whose mouth?

and presumes a definition of "justice" (none is supplied).

That's because it's an abstract concept. And I DID supply a definition - punishing the guilty.

That is the interesting question - how to figure out who deserves to be punished and what is the appropriate type of punishment if indeed it is determined that there has been a violation of a law, code, moral ethics, etc.

This has nothing to do with the law - laws aren't for enforcing justice, they're for enforcing order. You'd do well to know the difference.

Interestingly, the poster is punishing himself, ultimately, by creating emotional distance between him and others who might indeed be a positive force in his life.

Trust me, I used to be like the original poster. I never got any of that "positve force" from women when I was like him. I wised up.

I thought as much.

A man who wants sex! Horrors!

What is it, exactly, that you do want?

Women to have sex with, for one.

Actually, I think you don't really believe that your approach works for you.

Gets me what I want.

I actually do believe all of what I wrote - you are determined to believe what you believe and determined to believe that it works for you - you are not open to "hearing" what anyone else has to say;

Not when I'm convinced they're lying.

rather you twist words

"Gentle brush off" is a euphamism you used a few times. I called it what it really was - a lie. I'm not surprised you didn't like that.

or misleadingly/selectively respond

I find it funny when people think that I'm somehow "hiding" their words when I use the quote function - your reply is right up above mine! How am I misleading anybody about what you said?

Hey - whatever works for you and makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside. All the best and good luck.

You don't really believe any of that.

That's clever isn't it? Treat someone else badly because someone treated you badly....just perpetuate the negative cycle of scorn and hatred then. Whatever happened to staying true to your morals?

My morals say that justice should be served - people who deserve to be punished should be punished. And you can usually tell within a short amount of time if a woman is the type of woman who deserves that punishment. Sometimes they'll even tell stories about some loser they blew off with the techniques that have been previously discussed here.

The victim of your behavior will only be you in reinforcing your negativity and ultimately driving other people away, not the women you lie to

Pffft.

most people have good instincts for liars

No, they really don't. They usually have to hear the liar tell a lie that directly contradicts something they know to be a fact to catch all but the most obvious of liars. They've done studies on this kind of thing, and most people fail miserably.

I think as human beings we are obligated to fight the urge to generalize (which is the easy way out) about all "women" or "men" or "canadians" etc. or there really is just no point.

Canadians are northern devils.

You know when it snows? That's when they're about to strike. The invasion is coming!

If you hate them, expect more scorn and contempt.

 

A chicken or egg dilemma.

Don't worry about me. I'm doing much better now that I'm lying to women. And no, I don't think that makes me a good person, or it's acceptable - I just think that they have it coming.

Your exxageration of what I clearly wrote confirms for me your negative mindset - I hope you work on that since I am sure you have to interact with women in several areas of your life.

Ah, subtle manipulation - I love it!

Don't worry - there are a great many successful misogynists.

Some of the things that you people have come out with in this thread just shocks me. The way you describe the opposite sex makes it seem like you hate them.

Why is that surprising? If you get nothing but scorn and contempt from the opposite sex, you will hate them.

For me, hate is a strong word. Condescension is more appropriate. Treating them like they are children does wonders - they respond well to it.

In my religion, white lies are permitted to save a person's feelings. I am fine with both sides of that (having a friend tell me a white lie for that purpose, and vice versa).

I see, you think lying is fine. That tells us what kind of person you are.

Thanks for sharing! (And I hope you stop telling yourself whatever is reinforcing your negative mindset towards women

What's reinforcing my negative mindset towards women is women's behavior. Such as your own.

I'm not cowardly. Often I want to stay safe (based on bad experiences when I have been directly rejecting with men I have met through on line dating sites) or I don't want to unnecesarily hurt someone - at least where I am from and with respect to the people I know - they know how to read a gentle brush off and it is far more comfortable for everyone involved. It all depends on the situation.

Yeah yeah, I know - lying is honorable, black is white, war is peace. Whatever. You tell yourself whatever you have to to soothe your conscience.

Just think of it this way:

Women tend to be cowardly. They don't want confrontation purely for selfish reasons, though they will try to rationalize it as somehow being in the guy's favor too.

Basically, take anything other than a "yes" as a no. Don't waste your time on them any longer. Don't bother speaking to them again. Do a full on NEXT - make no contact with them, and politely but quickly get out of all contact they initiate with you. Never do them any favors.

I'd be happy to. I might tweak a few things here and there, but the message will be the same. Does it matter if true love happens when we are 25 or 52? When it does happen, it won't matter how long we will have wanted, it'll be just as sweet, maybe even sweeter for the wait.

Or, like with most people, it will never happen. True love is a myth, not a promise.

In the real world, you can either hope that good things will happen to you, or you can take steps to make them happen.

The wiser course of action is the second.

And also, don't worry about dating. Life will bring you opportunites when the time is right. There is no need to go out and hunt for dates or read books on how to get them. They will come to you, you just have to be ready to seize the moment when they do.

Tell that to a guy who's 40 and still waiting for that time to come. I've spoken to them, and I dare you to tell one of them this to his face.

It's not actually a dating advice book at all. It's an autobiography, detailing his foray into a subculture dealing with picking women up. And he doesn't actually put it in that great a light.

Careful, some people get a bit obsessed and then things turn bad.

There are various things you can do to improve your luck with women, at least short term. If you read Neil Strauss's recent book "The Game", you'll see that there is a sort of underground community that has dedicated itself into figuring out those "buttons", for lack of a better term, that you have to activate in women to make them attracted. They've got it down to a science, or rather several different sciences, as there are many different methods.

Anyway, you can look into it at the website link removed. It's highly disorganized, but there's a lot of information there.

When I think serious chivalry and a man pursueing a woman to show her how special she is, I'm thinking of victorian times in the 1800's. Aww....so romantic, right?

When I think of the 1800's, I think of company towns, sweatshops, no worker rights, etc. That's how most people lived, rather than the upper classes who lived such a "proper" existence. Either that or they lived in the Wild West, where manners and proper hygiene were rare.

Anyway, before maybe 20 or so years ago, men paid and women didn't for very practical reasons - either the man had to pay for everything, or there was no date because the woman couldn't afford it.

Personally, I wonder why so many are so strongly against this. What harm does it actually do? For the guys, why can't you spare some dollars to try and show a person a good time?

Those dollars add up. Say you go on a few dozen dates. Let's say you go someplace fairly cheap and only pay say $10 a person for a meal. Along with the money you'd spend on yourself, which is probably more than you'd spend on a meal if you stayed home and ate, you get to treat somebody who is a near stranger, who is probably not even going to be appreciative of it - they'll just expect it, and possibly demand it.

If you go on dozens and dozens of first dates, you're spending quite a bit of cash on women you'll never see again, and they get free meals instead. It can make men pretty resentful, especially when the women are making as much or even more money than yourself.

Now, if you're claiming that men who don't make much money don't deserve to date, then just say you're judging men based on their income and wealth in which case you can be properly labelled a gold digger. Otherwise, I'd suggest you rethink your criteria.

Shajenko, that was uncalled for. Teacup did not deserve to be critized like that. EVERYONE is a valuable person.

Not to me. My family is valuable to me. People I care about are valuable to me. Strangers and aquaintences are not.

They may be wonderful human beings, but I don't know that, and I can't know that from very little interaction with them.

It may sound harsh to you, but it's true. I'd be willing to bet that people you've never met before and who you will never interact with simply don't matter too much to you, beyond the little amount they matter simply by virtue of being human. I'd also bet you wouldn't trust them with anything serious, because they might not deserve it.

This is simply human. You're not going to make big sacrifices for random people. You won't give up your job to make sure somebody in the third world has a job. Doing so would be foolish.

Similarly, I'm not willing to sacrifice for random women I meet.

What are you going to do, be suspicious of everyone you meet and be expecting them to earn your respect?

It's only sensible. Anyone I meet could be a thief, or even a murderer. It's why it's not considered wise to pick up hitchhikers.

but in the early stages of dating, i believe that HE is supposed to be COURTING me. showing me that he knows and feels im a very valuable person and expressing that by putting his money where his mouth is.

How do I know you're a very valuable person? I just met you recently. You could be very bitter, or a psycho, or any number of other things.

You seem to be saying that men are obligated to spend money on an unproven person, while you yourself should be free to wait until you know for sure that he's worth your cash.

Let me get this straight...

I go out with a woman for the first time. Now, this woman is almost certainly a virtual stranger - all I really know about her is what she looks like, her outward demeanor, and maybe a few minutes of prior conversation at most.

Now, this date is a chance for both of us to see if we like each other. I might very well decide that I don't want to see her ever again, or I might just decide I might want to see her again, but I'm not crazy about her.

And I'm just expected to pay and pay and pay with no reciprocation at all?

Too hell with that. If she decides she doesn't want to see me any more because I won't pay her way, she's done me a favor. I don't get along with gold diggers.

Ambiguity about their apparent level of interest is something they take comfort in. They can always say, "He just wasn't into me and didn't ask me out" when the real reason might be the poor schmoe didn't have a clue she was interested (a lot of guys are interest signal impaired, usually the ones that complain that women never ask for a date).

Wait, you're saying that women are intentionally ambiguous, and it's not HER fault when the guy doesn't read her mind?

Sounds like she should own up to her own failures.