Don't know what to do...

[Wayfara]

if E tells anyone about your mom being mrs detective and accusing E of being a lesbian following her "straight" daughter, and your years and years of teasing and bullying her, this person will tell E: MOVE ON YOU HAVE NO CHANCE WITH WAYFARA!

 

Didn’t see that one coming, lol. Yeah one could take the example both ways.

 

She doesn't have sisters, no?

 

She has some sisters. She has one big sister (who is married), one big brother (the teasing one) and five little brothers, but then she has two little sisters on her father’s side (but those on her father’s side she doesn’t see as often).

 

Well E and I went to her home. She told her brothers and mother that I was her friend Wayfara. And her mother was like: “Hasn’t she the same name as that mean girl?” and E had to explain that I was that girl. Yeah her mother looked very shocked. Then the teasing brother entered the room (he was there to visit his mother) and when he saw us he started to laugh.

Her brother: “So you’re introducing the girlfriend to the family now?”

E: “She’s not my girlfriend.”

Her Brother: “Sure, she’s only a ‘classmate’ you bring along everywhere.”

Then her mother turned to me.

Her mother: “You two, are you…?”

Me: “No.”

 

While we were eating dinner there her mother (who is going to get married soon) told E that statistics said that people that got married was happier and lived longer than single people, that E should think about that if she wanted a long happy life. E said that statistics counted the divorced among the singles and that the divorced in general were unhappier and as around half of all marriages ended in divorce there was a 50% chance to get unhappier instead by getting married.

 

We watched a movie all together; some of them had to sit on the floor because the sofa wasn’t big enough. And now I know that E isn’t the only one in her family who doesn’t like to see sex scenes. All her little brothers were like “Oh how disgusting” and they told their mother to tell them when the people in the movie were done while holding cushions before their eyes (even the oldest of them and I think he's around 17). Her mother was unhappy about it scolding them for not wanting to see such a beautiful act of love but during the torture scenes having their eyes glued to the TV.

 

While E’s brothers wanted to test their card talents with E her mother took me aside. She asked me if E ever talked about guys with me; I said no. Her mother said that even though she had done everything in her power to give her children a healthy and modern view on sex she felt that E was very repressed on that area. She told me how she had tried to make E feel more comfortable about sex by telling her how good it felt but without success. She said that she almost had began to wonder if E had other inclinations, especially as E had read many biographies about dead people who were rumoured being lesbians. Anyway she thought that E maybe would listen more to a friend in her same age than a parent and she wanted me to do her the favour telling E that there was nothing wrong or dirty with having sex.

 

Well I don’t know if it’s really a good idea me telling E that sort of stuff. She would probably think that I’m just like her mother. Or should I really do that?

 

I have this cool vision in my head of the whole situation. What you all look like, etc.

 

Lol, maybe you would be disappointed if you saw us in real life and we didn’t look anything like you had imagined. I wonder how your vision is like.

 

Wayfara do you know what's causing the problem with your computer?

 

It’s the wireless adapter that gets a bad signal, low, very low or no signal at all. My father configured the network on his computer and he would kill me for touching it so I can’t do anything about it. Well as long it works a little I’ll keep you updated.

[millaj]

Well in my vision you are taller, light brown hair, and slim. She is shorter, short dark hair, and a little thicker than you. Do one or both of you wear glasses? Can u give me some descriptions? LOL

[aquatic]

Or should I really do that?

As much as it's tempting to say something to E or set her mother straight about the whole sex issue, it's probably best to not meddle and so as not to betray either's confidence in you. One could hope the older sister would advise her mom not to expose the little ones to so much (blatant) sex.

[Wayfara]

Well in my vision you are taller, light brown hair, and slim. She is shorter, short dark hair, and a little thicker than you. Do one or both of you wear glasses? Can u give me some descriptions?

 

Lol, and I imagine you Millaj with dark hair in page-boy style (don’t know why). Well I’m of average height, slim, my hair is something between blonde and light brown (depending on the season). Neither of us wears glasses. Well E does have short dark hair but she’s the lanky type, we used to call her “the plank”. It always bothered me that she was so much taller, with what ease she could look down at me. I would say that she looks somewhat androgynous and has this air of being untouchable, I always felt like she didn’t care a thing about me (and that's why I teased her so much, I suppose I thought it better to have her hate me that being indifferent towards me).

 

it's probably best to not meddle and so as not to betray either's confidence in you

 

You are right. It’s weird how open her mother is; one does not normally discuss that sort of problem with a first time guest.

 

One could hope the older sister would advise her mom not to expose the little ones to so much (blatant) sex.

 

Lol, yeah one could hope that, but the sister is much older, lives in another town and is probably occupied with her own kids.

 

Well my mother is still worried about me, she has ever since she left kept waking me up by calling early in the mornings to have these warning talks about E, then she calls me when it’s almost night too (she says she must take advantage while her sister is sleeping to call). I will begin to feel like a zombie if this continues

[millaj]

Lol, and I imagine you Millaj with dark hair in page-boy style (don’t know why).

 

LOL.. nope, I'm 5'11, full-figured, shoulder length brown hair. I'm an aggressive Femme.

[aquatic]

she was so much taller

You've got some balls picking on someone like her then. Thank your lucky she's mild-mannered. lol

 

one does not normally discuss that sort of problem with a first time guest.

Well, considering she seems like an open book kinda person, not surprising. AND you're probably E's first friend EVER (and to be invited home!), she figures you must be a pretty darn good one.

 

Why your mom has to sneak off to call you is strange. Anyway, if you want her to stop pestering you, why don't you just tell her: "Mom, E's too straight. How can I make her fall in love with me?" Booya. Wayfara, I'm on my way home, lol.

[Tigris]

I knew E's Mother would have a private talk to you. Don't be surprised if E happens to say, 'My mother talked to you about me didn't she?' She knows her too well.

[Wayfara]

LOL.. nope, I'm 5'11, full-figured, shoulder length brown hair. I'm an aggressive Femme.

 

I got all wrong then, lol. I think E said she was 180 cm and that’s 5’11 if I’m right, same height as you then.

 

E came and visited me yesterday. She asked me if her mother had told me a bunch of bedroom stories during the visit at her home, she looked really relieved when I told her she hadn’t. She said that her family seemed to like me (well I’m glad I managed to make a good impression).

E: “You don’t like girls, right?”

She just asked me that totally out of the blue. Well I laughed it off (I didn’t know what to answer) and asked her why she asked. She said that I didn’t want to know but I insisted. She was a bit hesitant at first but then she told me that her brother (the teasing one) had been bothering her an evening calling her dim ‘for not seeing the obvious that I was into her’. She said that her brother had a wild imagination and she assured me that she had told him that I was a very straight girl who had a crush on a guy.

 

Well I suggested that we could test some martini and we drank some. E got giggly as a little girl (yeah that was funny). Then we saw a movie. After the movie was over I threw a cushion on her, she didn’t react, I threw another, still no reaction, and a third.

E: “I’m getting irritated soon.”

Me: “What are you going to do about it then? Tie me up?”

When I was going to throw the forth cushion she caught my hand and snatched the cushion off.

E: “I don’t think the tying was exemplary enough.”

Well I tried to get another cushion with my other hand but she grabbed my other hand too before I had the chance.

E: “What to do with a naughty girl like you? You know? Naughty, blond girls is just my type.”

Then she leaned in. My heart was pounding as crazy and I began to breath heavy too, I seriously thought she was going to kiss me. Well, well she didn’t, she just got very close to my face.

E: “Scared you, eh?”

Then she got up off the sofa and said that she better go as she had too much to drink and needed some sleep. I said she could have a sleepover but she said she would sleep better in her own bed.

 

Why your mom has to sneak off to call you is strange.

 

Lol, I think she’s worried that her sister would hear the conversations when they resolve around my “confusion” and E. She can probably not sleep well because of her worries and when she can’t sleep she calls me (well she blames her sister for being too possessive and not letting her do anything by her own during the days).

 

why don't you just tell her: "Mom, E's too straight. How can I make her fall in love with me?"

 

Lol, well I would love to get some tips to get E fall for me (too bad I don’t think my mother would be willing to provide me with those).

[millaj]

OH MY GAWD.. that girl wants you!!!! How hot was that.. I know you were freaking out there. She still doesn't get it.. she thinks your straight.

[candy_the_confused]

wayfara you are supposed to be having the crush on her and all i see is her acting like she has the crush on you and you are the one who's not aware of it!!! i mean the girl asked you straight forward if you like girls, then jumped on top of you after she got a bit tipsy and got soo close to your face and called you naughty and so on.. excuse me i don't see it so platonic.

 

wayfara obviously the girl likes you!

 

maybe you should ask her if she's into girls, but let the occasion present itself, then maybe you can say something that shows you are open minded about the subject and not as straight as you seem to be.

[Tigris]

Why didn't you go and sleepover at her place instead? All you had to do was say, 'Can I sleep over at your place instead?' It would've been interesting to see what she said.

 

I told you the last time she pinned you down that something happened to her that day. She had feelings that she wasn't sure about but she liked them. You've got to keep having playful times like that to see what happens.

 

It's obvious there's something happening to you and I don't know how much longer you can stand it?

 

Are you still giving each other a hug and a peck on the cheek before you go? If not then I suggest you do it. That will get her used to you kissing her and then we'll all pray that the next time you tease her that you'll both kiss properly lol

[Tigris]

How much martini did you both drink?

 

You need a dvd that's got some romance, seduction and a not too much sex scenes in it plus the martini again. Hopefully that will solve the problem of how she views sex away from her Mother.

 

Do you both like pizza? If you do then I suggest when you're eating it that you start to feed her like lovers do and see if she does it to you.

 

This is like following a romance story and keeping us all on the edge of our seats.

[aquatic]

My, my, what a night. Heh, sorry to drizzle on the parade, but would like to throw in some things for consideration before you go all aggressive on her.

 

Though what happened seems to be a positive sign (yahoo for you I don't think that's a normal girl pal joke to be said even under the influence of alcohol-- then again, E has dark humor lol), remember she was drinking and most likely she wouldn't be as open when she's back to sober. So back in the real word, you're still dealing with an intimacy-phobic and emotionally guarded person here-- I'd probably go for more helping of afffectionate than outright "seduction". I think if you're extra caring/affectionate (not groping! lol)/thoughtful/attentive/"courtly" and neither confirm/deny that you're into girls/not into boys, she'll piece it together if that's what she wants to see and when she's READY to see it-- especially now that her brother's already brought it to her attention. You'd want to draw her out, not overwhelm her-- still on her own terms.

 

Anyway, just another option.

 

And it won't hurt to schedule another drinky visit; it seems to bring out the flirt in E, lol.

[aquatic]

Btw, determining what tone E used when she asked the you're-not-into-girls question can help clue you in.

[Wayfara]

wayfara you are supposed to be having the crush on her and all i see is her acting like she has the crush on you and you are the one who's not aware of it!!!

 

I’m still kicking myself for not having met her half way and kissed her but I didn’t manage to gather the courage, I just froze (I haven’t had my first kiss yet). And it could have been just a dared joke on E’s side, E does have kind of weird humour, very morbid sometimes (one of her favourite subjects is talking about people who have been buried alive by accident). Sometimes it sounds like it wouldn’t matter to her if I visit her or not. When I asked her if she saw me as a real friend she had to think about it first. It’s almost always me who has to initiate the hugs and when I suggested that she could give me a peck on my cheek she just looked horrified. And the last time we had a fight she seemed to be just fine with never seeing me again. If she really liked me would she really act like that?

 

I have friends that are more affectionate toward me than E is. Like giving me compliments about my appearance, asking me for a lot of hugs, and some would even be okay with taking a bath with me, all this platonic. I have friends that are straight but that have kissed and even made out with other straight girls without meaning anything with it and E didn’t even kiss me.

 

Even if she would have a crush on me I don’t think she would admit it, she probably thinks that having a crush is very uncool, something that makes you weak. Do you have any suggestions on what to do about that?

 

maybe you should ask her if she's into girls

 

She has already denied being gay and not just one time. She says she isn’t interested in girls, sex or relationships and if I ask her again she would probably say the same thing again. But maybe I could say something about me supporting gay-marriages and stuff like that.

 

How much martini did you both drink?

 

We emptied a bottle. She said she wasn’t used to alcohol, I told her that it was a first time for everything (maybe it wasn’t very nice to talk her into it, lol). Next time I’m thinking of giving her some vodka instead of martini, just kidding.

 

Why didn't you go and sleepover at her place instead?

 

It would have been too obvious to ask her. Besides I don’t think she wanted me to have a sleepover at her place, I think she left because she wanted to be alone.

 

Are you still giving each other a hug and a peck on the cheek before you go?

 

Well I give her a hug but I haven’t given her a peck on her cheek yet, I’m worried that she would think that too much. Maybe I should give her more hugs and not only when saying goodbye.

 

determining what tone E used when she asked the you're-not-into-girls question can help clue you in.

 

She asked me in casual way like by the way. She probably wanted to confirm it so she could tell her brother that I wasn’t gay for sure.

 

Well what should I do if she asks me again? By having laughed it off she probably thinks me straight so even if she would be interested maybe she would think it’s no idea. But if I would confess that I might be bisexual she might suspect that I like her and I don’t want to scare her off.

 

Do you both like pizza? If you do then I suggest when you're eating it that you start to feed her like lovers do and see if she does it to you.

 

I don’t know about feeding her. Wouldn’t it look weird if I tried that?

 

Do you have any tips on how to make a move on E in a subtle way? How I can see if she could be interested in something more without being obvious. Is taking her out to a pizzeria a good idea? Well I won’t see E for a couple of days now as she’s going to visit her father.

[millaj]

Maybe you can ask her for a bite of something and then lean over with your mouth open like you want her to feed it to you and see what she does.

 

Also, your idea on saying you support gay marriage would be a good topic.

 

Or.. rent a lesbian flick and watch it together. ?

[Zampotne]

Hi everyone--

I've been reading your story, Wayfara. I've been silent and haven't responded, because it was just perfect the way it was. Like a good novel. But there are some things you said that I just had to respond to.

 

"When I asked her if she saw me as a real friend she had to think about it first."

Well, maybe she was thinking ... I like you more than a friend.. and didn't know how to respond. She may have been looking for the response that wouldn't freak you out.

 

"And the last time we had a fight she seemed to be just fine with never seeing me again. If she really liked me would she really act like that? "

Of course she would. Remember when you first started having feelings for her, you considered not talking to her anymore because you thought your feelings would go away? After all, she is so fearful and disgusted of relationships/love/sex, why wouldn't she want to try to end it before it goes any further??

 

" have friends that are more affectionate toward me than E is. Like giving me compliments about my appearance, asking me for a lot of hugs, and some would even be okay with taking a bath with me, all this platonic. I have friends that are straight but that have kissed and even made out with other straight girls without meaning anything with it and E didn’t even kiss me. "

The difference is that you feel something when E is this way with you. Even though you have feelings for her, you feel the connection. I think that deep down you know there is some sexual tension between the two of you. I bet if one of your "platonic" friends had a crush on you, you'd know that too.

 

I agree with having some more drinks with E. Lol, don't turn her into a drunk- but she has a huge guard up, and you need some help here. I'd consider telling her that you have thought there was a possibility that you were a lesbian. As a friend, she should respect that- whether she is straight or gay. She shouldn't just assume you are into her- and I don't think E sounds like the type that would make that assumption. I just think it might be a good idea to let E know that this has crossed your mind- because if she really does think you are straight, it is possible that this relationship will never go anywhere. Just put the idea in her head.

 

One more thing- I don't think E just wanted to sleep in her own bed. I think that when you two were that close, she felt something very strong and it freaked her out, so she ran away.

 

I hope you keep writing and good luck.

[millaj]

I agree with everything that was written above ^^^

[aquatic]

I have friends that are more affectionate toward me than E is.

Public display of affection doesn't necessarily indicate anything romantic. By the same token, lack of PDA doesn't necessarily indicate lack of romance. It's not an accurate way to base anything on. Btw, PDA in a public pizza parlor is especially not, I suspect, E's thing.

 

I understand why you want to speed this up, but I don't see why it's necessary for now. Don't you enjoy the light flirting and getting-to-know you stage you're both at? Patience. Slowly but surely. The more you solidify your friendship, the more chances it will survive if you do make a move one of these days and it doesn't work out for some reason. Be flirty friends first, before rushing into the seduction. (See my reply post #188 ).

 

Just be extra attentive to her. But don't smother her-- letting her go home was good, you recognized her need for space.

 

At this point, without having to say YOU are gay, it would be okay to let her know you're open-minded re: gays. Maybe in one of E's discussions about the ickiness of love, you can mention a gay couple you know and say how you think that's the bravest kind of love around. Or something to that effect.

[Tigris]

Wayfara you could start a conversation off about me telling E that I've 44 years old and finally come out as a lesbian after people thinking I was straight for 30 years.

 

That I didn't want to hurt or disappoint my grandparents who I spent a lot of time with or cause any arguments with my parents. That I'd been married twice and am now making arrangements to marry my fiancee who is Australian and that I'm English. That she will have to come to England because same sex marriages aren't recognised over there.

 

Tell her what you think about my life and then ask her what her opinion is and see what she says.

 

I think this is the easiest way to approach the subject.

[millaj]

Wayfara you could start a conversation off about me telling E that I've 44 years old and finally come out as a lesbian after people thinking I was straight for 30 years.

 

That I didn't want to hurt or disappoint my grandparents who I spent a lot of time with or cause any arguments with my parents. That I'd been married twice and am now making arrangements to marry my fiancee who is Australian and that I'm English. That she will have to come to England because same sex marriages aren't recognised over there.

 

Tell her what you think about my life and then ask her what her opinion is and see what she says.

 

I think this is the easiest way to approach the subject.

Cool.. yea it's easy to talk about other people.

[Wayfara]

E visited me today. I thought I would be more affectionate this time so I gave her a long hug when she came (usually I only give her one when she goes). I asked her if she had a good time with her father who she had visited. She said that her father’s new wife had tried to make her use make-up and dresses so she would have a better chance attracting boys. Then E began talking about how nature tries to fool humans into fall in love so they start copulating and reproducing and that she didn’t want a part in nature’s simple meaning of life. I said that gays didn’t fall in love to start reproducing and that they were very brave to stand up for their love even when it was against the norm. Well she said that one nevertheless did best in protect oneself from all kind of love so one escapes all love problems.

 

Anyway we ate some spaghetti I had cooked. After we had eaten she thanked me for the dinner. Well as a joke I pointed at my cheek indicating that I wanted a peck as thanks.

E: “Friends don’t do that.”

I asked her how she could know and said that I and my friends did it all the time (well it wasn’t exactly true, I don’t remember giving any peck to a friend

E: “You promise?”

Me: “Would I lie to you?”

I hadn’t thought she would do it but after looking uncomfortable for awhile she really did lean in and gave me super quick peck on the cheek. It was nice. I gave her another hug. She said that I seemed very cuddly today and that my mother should have left the dog at home with me.

 

Well I suggested that we could take some martini before she would go but she didn’t want to and said she thought it best for her to entirely avoid alcohol. I’m having bad conscious now, I must have made her first experience with it a really bad one. I don’t know but maybe as she wasn’t used to drinking I gave her too much so she got an awful hangover.

 

Thank you for the tips Tigris. I’ll try to use it when I get an opportunity to it.

[maybetomorrow]

I gave her another hug. She said that I seemed very cuddly today and that my mother should have left the dog at home with me.

 

ouch. haha in a weird way, that cracked me up. So harsh though.

 

Well I suggested that we could take some martini before she would go but she didn’t want to and said she thought it best for her to entirely avoid alcohol. I’m having bad conscious now, I must have made her first experience with it a really bad one. I don’t know but maybe as she wasn’t used to drinking I gave her too much so she got an awful hangover.

 

Or she got scared of what the alcohol made come out of her. And she doesn't want to lose control of her feelings again.

 

Whatever happens, I wish you the best of luck!

[aquatic]

E: “Friends don’t do that.”

I asked her how she could know and said that I and my friends did it all the time

E: “You promise?”

Me: “Would I lie to you?”

 

I am a bit put off by this, I must admit. When I mentioned extra caring/attention, I suppose this is not the way I saw it. Anyway, no harm, no foul... and you're probably the best judge when in the moment.

[Wayfara]

Yes maybe I was too forward and not clear enough that it was a joke, I didn’t expect her to do anything, I just I just wanted to tease her a little to see her facial expression.

 

I made a short visit to her yesterday. She was talking about that she had promised her brother to come over and play a new strategy game with him. And we came into the subject about her brother’s suspicions about me. I asked in a joking manner what she would have done if her brother had been right. She laughed a bit saying that it would have been strange, especially when my mother thinks that she’s the gay one. Then she said that it would have been sad too because romantic feelings didn’t belong in a friendship so we would have been compelled to stop seeing each other. So if I have in my wishful thinking been seeing signs that she maybe liked me too they were all in my head. She has no feelings for me. She would even want to stop being friends with me if she knew about my crush.

 

I have been thinking since yesterday about what I should do. Sooner or later she’s going to find out so I would do well in ending this as soon as possible. Waiting would only increase the pain when the time comes when she finds out and wants me out of her life. I already feel bad because of my filthy thoughts, if she knew she would hate it. And she’s right, romantic feelings don’t belong in a friendship, I feel like I have been deceiving her. She deserves a better friend than me who doesn’t see her in an inappropriate way. This wasn’t really working for me either, she’s a great friend but I would always have hoped for more and that’s just plain wrong. So the right thing to do would be ending this.

 

So how do I end this without hurting her feelings? I could maybe write a short letter and confess that I like her a little bit too much and that I’ll keep my distance but I rather do it in another less embarrassing way and it would probably hurt her if she knew that I have been thinking dirty thoughts about her right from the beginning.