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What is going to begin or is it just an expression? Sorry, my bad English.

An expression

 

Well, doesn't seem you have much of a choice. Like you said, not inviting her over will make your mother suspicious. Well, if you do, try to not hole up in your room. Hang out where your mom can see you two doing, well, nothing much. Better yet, try to do something that can involve your mom (yeah, fun huh?) like you and E cook something too, or maybe rent a movie that you three like... or something. Well, the bigger question is, would E want to....

 

Good luck. So much thinking how this will work, you'd think a suitor's coming over! lol

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I've got a solution to your problem that should make everyone happy.

 

Why don't the three of you meet in a cafe that way you're all going to be polite because nobody wants to embarrass themselves in public.

 

There's always a way to get around tricky situations like this.

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Before going to school I suggested going to café to my mother but she just got angry saying that she wasn’t a monster going to eat E alive. E wasn’t very happy about going over to my house. First she was like: “Don’t look at me that way, I won’t be persuaded” and then “Okay, okay, but just for this one time.”

 

I said that the three of us could go and rent a movie. My mother said that we could see one that we already had at home. She picked “Troy” (if you don’t know the movie it’s about lightly dressed men in war, it’s my mother’s favourite movie). After we had seen it my mother told E to let know which of the guys made her hot, it was embarrassing. When E didn’t immediately answer my mother assured her that she was in safe company and ought not to be shy. E said the men certainly hadn’t had that effect on her (I think she took the question as an accusation) even though she guessed they looked alright.

My mother: “Then your taste in men must be very picky; it can’t be easy for you to get a boyfriend. How many have you had?”

E: “None.”

My mother: “None? Don’t you like boys?

Then my mother asked her if she was a lesbian, she had probably just waited for an opportunity to ask that question.

E: “Not what I know of.”

I told my mother to stop interrogating her, she responded that only a person with something to hide could get offended by some simple questions but she did as I said. Then we took a cup of coffee and had a normal conversation (about the weather etc) before E went home.

 

My mother says that E seems polite but somewhat cold and she still isn’t totally convinced that E isn’t a gay because she didn’t get the heterosexual vibe from her (my mother believes in auras and stuff like that) and that it was suspicious that a 19 years old girl would look to the side during the sex scenes (yeah very suspicious, the infallible proof that she’s lesbian), I didn’t notice it but my mother says she saw it. I think it’s pretty obvious that E isn’t gay, this is the third time I have heard her deny it now, she’s just very inhibited or asexual. Well, well, you cannot have everything in life as you want it.

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After we had seen it my mother told E to let know which of the guys made her hot, it was embarrassing. When E didn’t immediately answer my mother assured her that she was in safe company and ought not to be shy. E said the men certainly hadn’t had that effect on her (I think she took the question as an accusation) even though she guessed they looked alright.

My mother: “Then your taste in men must be very picky; it can’t be easy for you to get a boyfriend. How many have you had?”

E: “None.”

My mother: “None? Don’t you like boys?

Then my mother asked her if she was a lesbian, she had probably just waited for an opportunity to ask that question.

E: “Not what I know of.”

 

I think your mom's true intentions for the night kinda showed here. There was no need to press for information about E's interest in guys.

 

I think it’s pretty obvious that E isn’t gay, this is the third time I have heard her deny it now, she’s just very inhibited or asexual. Well, well, you cannot have everything in life as you want it.

 

Well, she wasn't going to confirm your mother's suspicions if she hasn't come out to you yet. Or if she hasn't even come to terms with her own sexuality herself. Though, it does seem as though she might be asexual.

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Wayfara I'm sorry to say this but I COULD KILL YOUR MOTHER for doing that to E. She had no right.

 

I'm beginning to think that E has been sexually abused at sometime during her life. That would be one reason for turning away when the love scenes were on.

 

It's also possible that she's never watched a dvd in the presense of her family so she felt uncomfortable watching those scenes with your Mother beside her.

 

Did you walk E home? Is she ok?

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I think your mom's true intentions for the night kinda showed here.

 

Yeah it sure did.

 

Wayfara I'm sorry to say this but I COULD KILL YOUR MOTHER for doing that to E.

 

No need to apologize, I have had many murderous thoughts about my mother too. Even if I have tried to get her to see that she did was very uncivil she fails to understand that, she says that she just showed interest.

 

I'm beginning to think that E has been sexually abused at sometime during her life.

 

I haven’t thought about that possibility before, I hope that’s not the case; it would be terrible she has been.

 

Did you walk E home? Is she ok?

 

I didn’t walk her home, she didn’t want me to as she wanted to have a walk alone. I hope she is okay but I don’t know, it's hard to tell with her. When I see her tomorrow I’ll tell her that I’m sorry for my mother’s behaviour.

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Wow, your mom was horrible to E... I know I would hate someone asking me questions like that. Also, if I was in E's situation I would have denied that I was a lesbian too, even though I am. So I agree that her denial doesn't necessarily mean anything... Though it is possible, as you said, that she's asexual-- I have a friend who a lot of people say gives off lesbian vibes, but in actuality she's completely asexual.

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I like E. I dig her nonchalant demeanor, especially when your mother was acting like an ass with the interrogation. Next time she asks why you don't invite E over, here you go.

 

About the turning away, I don't think it's that odd she "looked away"-- I'D be uncomfortable watching a sex scene with someone whom I know is studying me. I wouldn't put it past E to not have noticed. Besides, your mother would see what she wants to see, even if it didn't happen.

 

It is a bit tragic how your mother thinks E's cold without seeing she's shown nothing to deserves E's warmth.

 

Hm, if it turns out she's not gay, do still want to be close friends? Is it such a dealbreaker for you?

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I like E. I dig her nonchalant demeanor

 

I dig her too, but you already knew that lol. Well some social proof is always good, I was wondering if I was going nuts when I started crushing on the recluse. I hope I don’t bore you out when all I’m doing is talking about her.

 

Hm, if it turns out she's not gay, do still want to be close friends? Is it such a dealbreaker for you?

 

If she turns out to not be gay I would like to get rid if my infatuation but stay close friends with her. She’s a cool person to be around and that wouldn’t change just because she isn’t gay. But then it’s seems that it isn’t that uncommon that you can continue crushing on a friend for several years, that thought scares me a bit.

 

If I knew my infatuation would only stay for a couple of weeks, or maybe a month or two it wouldn’t be that bad but several years is a long time. I don’t know how long my crushes usually last as this is my first one as I barely cared for my past boyfriends and the thing about B was just an shallow thing, thought that he could be someone to brag about. My friends say that the easiest way to get over someone is stop seeing that person or at least seeing them a lot less, it’s a bit hard to stay close friends with someone you don’t see. What I’m saying is that if I hadn’t this stupid crush on her I wouldn’t mind staying friends with her for life. But my crush comes in the way; the thought of suffering from a lifelong unrequited crush isn’t that appealing. So how do I stop crushing on her while staying her friend? I suppose I’ll just wait and hope it’s only temporary.

 

I told E that I was sorry for the way my mother interrogated her. She said she was getting used to it by now and declared in a joking manner: “Next time you try to invite me over I won’t be persuaded for real.” And yes she noticed my mother’s staring, it must have been awful having my mother watching how she would react during the sex scenes. I told her my mother ridiculous ideas to make her laugh and it worked. She said that teenagers had to rebel in some way and that her way to rebel was to not have her mother as a role model. She then started talking about how her own mother was like, the way she described her gave me creeps.

 

Her mother takes pride in being a liberated, erotic, passionate woman. When E turned fifteen (which is the age of consent here) she gave her a pack of condoms as a present (which E immediately threw in the garbage). Her mother used to have sex with open doors, on sofa in the living room etc so E and her siblings many times accidentally caught the mother on the act and when they didn’t see it they heard the noises. As E had the room beside her mother’s she often woke up during the night because of the shaking walls. Her mother used to describe to E the wonders of making love with a man, telling her that it was the ultimate pleasure, that nothing in world could go against it and preach about how pure and sanctified the act of making love was, how the male and female body perfectly fitted each other but I don’t think she managed to induce the hoped effect on E. Personally I would be severely disgusted if my mother had done the same to me.

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No wonder she's not interested in having a boyfriend. lol

 

At least E answered truthfully when your Mother asked if she's a lesbian.

 

At least now we know the reasons for her not being interested in relationships it's her Mother's fault.

 

I wouldn't be at all surprised if she does lean towards girls.

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Yikes! Me thinks E's mom takes pride in things aplenty. That is screwed up parenting. Guess she doesn't need to sit down E for the mother-daughter pregnancy scare talk, pretty much killed any curiosity to experiment with sex. Ew. Must've been surreal to live there...

 

On the upside, she took the entire fiasco with humor, so that's a good sign.

 

I hope I don’t bore you out when all I’m doing is talking about her.

No worries. Your thread, talk all you want.

 

But then it’s seems that it isn’t that uncommon that you can continue crushing on a friend for several years, that thought scares me a bit.

Don't overanalyze. Cross the bridge when you get there. In the meantime, just enjoy yourselves. Who knows, maybe in a year, you two will be double-dating... uh, with your respective boys, that is, hehe.... or with another couple? okay, just teasing. Don't stress yourself about it now, stress about it in a year or two

 

With more seriousness, be open to date other people; don't pin all hopes on E, okay?

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At least E answered truthfully when your Mother asked if she's a lesbian.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if she does lean towards girls.

 

If she was truthful when she said she wasn’t a lesbian she cannot lean toward girls, or what do you mean? Anyway I don’t think it matters if she is or isn’t, even if she was gay she clearly doesn’t want any relationship.

 

pretty much killed any curiosity to experiment with sex.

 

Yeah by overexposing her to it, lol.

 

I followed E home today. While E and I were sitting in the sofa in her apartment discussing free will versus determination I gave in to the temptation to tickle her again. She told me to stop but I said I couldn’t do anything about it as I was determined to tickle her by the laws of cause and effect.

E: “If you don’t stop soon…”

Me: “Are you going to punish me then? I don’t think you will.”

She got of the sofa, went to the kitchen and when she came back she showed me with an evil grin what she had in the hand, a cord. Then she tied me up! (Not that I offered much of resistance, having her near it was difficult concentrating).

E: “Poor little Wayfara… What are you going to do now?”

Me: ”Hm…”

I tried to untie myself but I couldn’t, she was very pleased with herself saying that she had had years of practise doing that to her little brothers when they were annoying.

E: “I wonder what your mum would think seeing you like this in my power.”

Well she untied me eventually after I promised to not tickle her anymore.

 

Well E and I get along pretty good now. This thread is starting to look more and more like a diary, I hadn’t planned that in the beginning. Anyway I know what to do now. I’ll be her friend and just enjoy it and maybe eventually I’ll meet someone else and in a couple of years I’ll probably look back and laugh at this silly crush. Don’t worry, I’ll try not doing anything rash as trying to seduce and convert her . Thank you for all the advice, it helped me a lot. Posting here can get addictive so I’ll try to refrain from doing that for awhile

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Well thank you, it’s nice to know that someone likes reading what happens to me. But I must stop posting sometime and only posting about how our friendship is going will get boring to read eventually. Well this post won’t be about so much E and I, sorry (I don’t want to be too clingy so sometime I have to give her some space).

 

My mother told me that my father will come home tomorrow night, it was unexpected but he will only stay for one day. She’s very excited about it, for a reason I don’t know she loves him very much. He’s a seaman and is gone four months in a row, and home four months but as he’s a workaholic sometimes he’s gone five months and home three, he’s an alcoholic too (periodical drinker) so some weeks of the time he’s free he usually disappears to a hotel or to a friend to drink in peace so usually I don’t see him that much.

 

I have this fear to become like my mother, she calls her love for my father unconditional which basically means that he can do whatever he wants and she’ll love him anyway. I know that unconditional love is supposed to be a good thing but I think that idealistically one should have good reasons for loving someone. So I’m worried that I’m blinded like my mother and only have a crush on E because of the capriciousness of the emotion and not because she’s a good person.

 

When my father comes home my mother usually tells him all the bad things I have done and then she gets surprised about how angry and upset he gets even though she knows that he can get a fit of anger just because of a missing pen (yeah she isn’t very bright). I’m afraid that she’ll tell him her worries about E and me. Nowadays he doesn’t get that violent as he used to and he usually doesn’t get so angry with me. When I was a kid he sometimes went to fetch the axe to threaten my mother with it, he broke the table one time because the pizza was cold and another time he chased my mother around the house with it. He has a weak spot for me so I am the one who has to calm him down when he gets angry, which wasn’t very funny when I was a kid and my mother pledged me to defend her while my father had the axe in his hand, I was frighten too you know. Well it was several years ago the last time he did the axe thing and he will only be home one day, maybe I shouldn’t worry too much.

 

Anyway it’s no idea to beg my mother not to tell my father about E, I have done something similar in the past and she promised that she wouldn’t bring up the thing I asked her to but when he came she did it anyway. So doing that would only remind her to do it, not that it’s a big chance she will forget to mention it but I can at least hope. I don’t think my father likes the idea of homosexuality, he’s a racist and he’s probably against homosexuals too.

 

I think this is what would one consider a negative post, lol.

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Yeah it went okay, he’s gone again now. I didn’t see him myself as I decided to be absent. When I came home today I asked my mother how he was, if he had been in a good mood and how drunk he had been. That made her angry with me, she said that dad has changed now and that he had only taken some beers. She thinks that I’m selfish and tries to make me guilty for being such an ungrateful daughter who doesn’t want to see her own father. She asked me who I had stayed with. When I said it was with E she told me about the talk she had with my father about me, that they thought it wasn’t good for me hanging out with that calculating E, that I needed to meet some guys. She seems to have much more negative opinion about E now than before, I think he scared her up about some histories about man hating dykes. It was probably a good idea not being home during the time.

 

My other friends live too far away for me to walk so when I decided to be absent I went to E’s place and asked her if I could sleep there two nights. I had told her about my father before (for about a year ago when she saw me crying under the tree) and she has had some similar experiences herself as some of her mother’s boyfriends also had been drunkards and abusive. She said it was okay. She served me some cookies she had baked (she’s just too nice to me). I jokingly asked her if she thought cookies the cure to all sadness. She just chuckled, saying something about that it used to function with her little brothers.

 

E has only one bed and a small sofa so she didn’t know where I could sleep. The sofa is quite tiny, sleeping on it the head and the major part of the legs would stick out. I said that it didn’t matter; she said that if I wanted I could sleep in the bed as the bed was big. I could see that she wasn’t very comfortable with the idea of sharing the bed even if she offered that option so I stuck with that I would take the sofa. She thought that I also had a problem with the sharing so she took me to the bedroom to show me how big the bed was and said that we could put a lot of pillows between us if I wanted. Well I gave saying that for my sake the pillow thing wasn’t necessary. Not that I minded laying beside her but I think I would have slept better on sofa than so close to her, I felt too much aware of her to get much of sleep. I listened to her breathing for hours before I fell into it. She hardly makes a sound asleep, one would think that she was dead of it wasn’t because she breathed, she lay just like a corpse in a coffin, almost scary.

 

While she was making the breakfast the next morning I looked through her bookshelf.

Me: “What is this? I didn’t think you read love stories.”

She immediately came out from the kitchen and looked just like if I had discovered some hidden porn magazines. She said something about reading things and wanting things for oneself were different things. She begged me to not mention it for her brother as we earlier had decided to go and visit him later that day.

Me: “So sweet romances with happy endings are what you like reading.”

E: “The majority of the books are not romances and they may seem happy for you but I read them as horror.”

 

She told me that people used to tell her that love changed everything which proved that it was a very dangerous thing because it made one into something one was not. When she read the books she was thinking something like “Oh no don’t have sex with him, he’s a pig. Don’t follow your urges, control yourself,” but that the heroines never listened to her. She couldn’t read too many of them in a row because it made her too horrified and depressed. I couldn’t keep myself from smiling. She admitted that she had a fear of intimacy and that she had some weird idea that if she read enough love stories she would learn how to avoid that happening to her.

 

Well then we went to visit her brother, I wish we hadn’t done that.

Her brother: “So you bring the same ‘classmate’ again.”

E didn’t respond to the comment. Anyway we sat down on the floor and started to play the same strategy game as last time (E and her brother are very much into this strategy game and take the game very serious). While E went to make some tea her brother pushed me with the elbow.

Her brother: “You like my little sister, don’t you?”

I almost had a heart attack. Then I thought to myself that he surly didn’t mean it “that” way.

Me: “… Well… she’s a good friend.”

Her brother: “But you don’t like her as a friend, do you?”

I felt panic. Before I had the time to protest he started to tease me for having a thing for his “frigid” sister and for being so obvious about it. Then E returned with the tea. He was still laughing and asked E if she really didn’t know the heartbreaker who I had feelings for. I could have killed him for doing that. She was getting annoyed and said that we should start playing the game instead of gossiping. During the whole time her brother continued to give suggestive questions and indicative comments, that hateful guy, I was just lucky that E didn’t get it. I was really relieved when we went back to E’s place but I got even less sleep that night than the previous.

 

Before I left this morning I told her how thankful I was for having let me stay at her place. I’m thinking of maybe buying her some sort of a present as a thank you.

 

Well something gave me away to E’s brother. Or do you think there is a chance that he only was joking with me when he accused for having feelings for his sister? I hope that he won’t tell E. I’m getting nervous now. What should I do if he does tell her and E asks me if it’s true? Should I deny it and say that he’s imagining things? Sorry for making this post so long.

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He's tried winding her up to see what she says and she doesn't say anything because she's used to him. Now he's winding you up to see if he's right. Be careful around him.

 

It is scary when you sleep beside a girl when you know you've just realised you've got those kind of feelings. I did exactly the same as you. I stayed awake, with my arms hugging me on the outside of the bed so I wouldn't touch her. I was only 16 at the time and she was 21.

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You said she's a very quiet sleeper. How do you know she was asleep? She could've been lying awake for a while breathing quietly so she could listen to you.

 

Wouldn't it be funny in years to come if you end up talking about this and she says I stayed awake for ages. You'd both end up rolling around laughing.

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with my arms hugging me on the outside of the bed

LOL! Tigris, too funny!

 

Wayfara, to be honest, I wish you spent time with your dad for a few reasons, one of which is that it was the chance you could have directly told/cleared up with your dad whatever "gossip" your mother told him (as there was NO doubt she would tell). Now the pot is needlessly brewing between the two of them, thanks to your mother's ill-intentioned opinion. Also, that wasn't the best time to push all your mother's buttons-- to have slept over E's place when her brain's going haywire with suspicions? I do understand why you did so, but I guess it didn't help. But, anyway, it's done with so let's move on....

 

I think it's important that your mother finds peace (for the sake of you three!) over this E business. I was thinking, maybe you should consider sharing some of what E's gone through so your mom sees where E's coming from. Not the details! Still keep those in confidence, but a vague idea. Maybe you could share it with your mother in a tone that seems you're opening up to her, like during a quiet moment with your mother over dinner, it can go like this:

(after a VERY BRIEF sharing about E's mom, how she didn't set a good example for E with regards to having relationships with men) "Mom, I feel bad for E. I'd like to encourage E to open up and meet guys and other friends, but she really feels too guarded and doesn't want to. How do you think I can do that?"

 

This is actually true, and I hope it's really something you'll encourage E to do (wrt to boys- to let her explore her orientation, wrt friends - to not be too isolated).

 

This way, your mom will see the friendship and E under a different light and might actually back off... I don't know. I don't know how that will go with your mother. But I'm hoping that by asking her opinion, she'll feel you're involving her in your business and stop feeling as if she's being shut out a lecherous, secretive affair. You won't sound defensive to her, right-- she'll see there's nothing to hide after all.

 

Now, about your sleepover LOL! Corpse... And, yay, cookies! Hahaha.... Seems you two had fun. About the brother, next time he does that, just look him in the eye and say in a serious tone, "I really wish you'd stop doing that. I already feel bad for being mean to her all these years and I'm trying to make up for it, I don't think teasing us about that is helping any bit." Guilt him out, LOL.

 

And continue to work on the poker face some more-- apparently, it's still not enough, LOL.

 

As for E, play defense. Be a step ahead of her brother. Be the first to ask her, "Jeez, what's with your brother and his teasing us? I'm not bothered by it, but I hope that doesn't make you feel uncomfortable either?" (can you see the fine art of neither confirming nor denying? LMAO!) That way, whatever her brother tells her will pretty much fall on deaf ears. LOL, that guy's one cheeky fellow.

 

How do you know she was asleep?

LOL, on one hand I want you to feel the fuzzies; on the other, I think this should wait til you get an wee bit inkling that she is a gay. You're transparent enough as it is, lol.

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Yeah maybe it was unnecessary to push my mother’s buttons lol. I don’t think I would be have been able to clear up whatever my mother now said to my father, he’s pretty much deaf when my mother is with him, especially when he’s drunk (one beer is enough to make him tipsy and now he had taken several). Last time the two of them had a talk with me together it ended with my father going to my wardrobe starting to tear one by one of my clothes to pieces until I promised the thing he wanted me to promise. But he uses to listen to me when he’s sober and alone, I will probably get a chance to talk to him next time he comes home.

 

Next time I see E’s brother and he starts with the teasing I’ll do as you say and when I see E I’ll use the defence tactic., thank you the tips

 

I talked to my mother while she was making the dinner about E’s mother not giving a good example to E how a relationship with a man should be and that I wanted her to meet guys, more people in general. She suggested taking E to a disco because it was there girls nowadays met guys and that she might get some friends there too. And that I should try figure out E’s type (as she thinks that E either has a very strange taste or must extremely picky if the men in Troy weren’t good enough for her) and then try to manage so that E meets a couple of guys like that. I think it made my mother glad that I counted on her for advice. Do you think her suggestions are good ones?

 

As I have this crush on E I suppose I must be at least bisexual. Even if my mother stopped worry about E and I it would be because she got assured that E was into guys and not because she would be okay with me liking a girl. I would like my mother to accept me even if I wasn’t heterosexual. How should I do that?

 

You said she's a very quiet sleeper. How do you know she was asleep? She could've been lying awake for a while breathing quietly so she could listen to you.

 

It would be very ironic if that was the case, lol.

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