Don't know what to do...

[Wayfara]

Forgot to tell what happened. I had planed to say so many things to her but the atmosphere was so awkward between us, she seemed shy or something. It wasn't until I was leaving she said anything regarding us, asked me if I'm seeing anyone and I said no and she seemed happy about it so I hope she asked because she wants us to be something. I hope I'll get a better chance to talk to her this weekend.

[floaterg]

I don't think there is anything wrong with you. You've made your mistakes just like everyone makes mistakes. Right now is when you are finally doing what's right. The feelings you have, regardless of how 'normal' they are...those feelings aren't 'wrong'. If you have feelings of joy over thoughts of hurting someone, then I would say something is wrong with you. If you are questioning your sexuality, then you are just being honest with yourself. Don't punish yourself, especially now. From what I know about the situation, you are finally trying to right what was wrong about your past behavior. Kudos to you, and good luck with your situation. However, don't put too much emphasis on her. If your feelings are mutual then great, but if not, at least you have learned a great deal about yourself.

[Wayfara]

Thought I should give an update. Things have gone a bit back and forth since my last here but we are maybe getting back together and I suppose I'm a little uncertain about what I'm getting myself into lol.

 

She had told me earlier that a relationship would never work so we were trying to be friends, well I wasn't really trying... Then two months ago we I told her I still want us to be something, being friends just seem like a quiet resignation when you know you could be so much more. She said my parents wouldn't like it, that she would still be a crappy girlfriend, and when I wasn't dissuaded she gave me to choose between a "nice" friendship or a "disgusting" relationship. Well the "disgusting" relationship alternative didn't sound that bad to me and we ended up sleeping together.

 

She asked me in the morning after if I thought I could be content living like this, looking back I think she meant content even if I don't get to do her but at the time I thought she meant like in general (said yes). Later I asked her if I could touch her too. She seemed a bit shy about the prospect but as she agreed to it I thought it was just that, shyness. We took it slow, started kissing and she seemed fine with that but when it came to taking off her shirt she pushed me off, looking almost scared. I asked her if I had triggered some bad memory. Well it was pretty obvious what and who I meant and she was like yes, it bothers her she lost her virginity to a dirty old man but sex was disgusting to her before that too. I told her I thought she only gave him a hand job to which she answered that if we have done is sex then that must have been sex too. Well she regretted everything that had happened between us, relationships were nothing but failed friendships corrupted by lust.

 

I didn't get to see her for several weeks after that, she was seeing her father. Considering how things ended and she hating phones I didn't think I would hear anything from her, then she called. She wanted to say she was sorry for freaking out on me and somehow we ended up talking for two, three hours. From that day we started talking almost on daily basis, it was very nice, I never thought she would come around to phones.

 

When she came back from her trip I surprised her at the train station and when she saw me she came up and gave me a big long tight hug right then and there. It always gives me tingles when she hugs me like that and it felt pretty special because she usually isn't much for public display of affection. Anyway she said she had been thinking about me a lot and if I was still up for a relationship she was too, suggested that I took a month to think it through. I think she is worried I will say yes and be unhappy as that was sort of what happened in our last relationship.

 

Anyhow it's been a little over three weeks and things have been great. I spent Easter mostly with her, we made all the dinners together, went for walks, threw snow at each other (it had snowed so it was like winter all over again). I teased her a lot, annoyed her with songs, made up pet names for her, started several pillow fights and she teased me some too. Well there were also a lot of cuddling and some rather intense make-out sessions We went to bed pretty early all the nights but spent like the first two hours talking rather than sleeping, talked a bit of everything, what we wanted do with our lives etc.

 

I told my mother that E and I are thinking about getting back together. She told me to invite E for tea, I did and we had a nice afternoon all three of us. Well until my mother started talking about artificial insemination and asked E if it didn't feel empty that her brothers have grown up, E said it didn't, and then when E had gone home my mother asked me if E had something personal against children... I told her no, that she's actually pretty good with kids but that neither of us want them and it's too soon to even talk about kids at this stage. My mother was like saying I shouldn't be so defensive, that she just wanted to enlighten us about all the alternatives in case I one day would change my mind.

 

Anyway E and I have had a big talk about sex. Basically she still thinks it's disgusting but as my body excites her and she likes making me happy she doesn't mind doing things for me as long it doesn't have to involve her body. She has given me option of no sex too but I do want intimacy. Ideally I would also want to reciprocate but I would want her to want me to. I suppose I wonder if it matters that I would prefer being able to reciprocate if the times we have been intimate have been amazing even without it? How important should it be that a partner can live up to all your preferences?

[herekitty]

Have you ever seen the movie, "Show Me Love"? In Sweden where it originated, it's called "F***ing Amal" (Amal is a very small town in Sweden). If you haven't seen it, find it, rent it, watch it--you miight also be able to watch it in sections on YouTube under the Swedish title. It has English subtitles. I'm not saying your story will turn out like the movie did, but the blonde girl might be someone you can relate to.

 

Beec gave you good advice--you're figuring things out and if you decide to be friends or more, just make sure you let it happen very slowly.

 

I have friends who have been partnered/married for years & years and didn't even like each other when they met, much like you didn't like this girl. But I think your dislike sounded more like envy of the girl's aloofness. Anyway, your assessment of yourself being not normal and having something seriously wrong with you is exactly the contrary--the way you feel is totally normal, nothing is wrong with you, and what you're going through happens to TONS of people. So take heart! Good luck.

[Wayfara]

Have you ever seen the movie, "Show Me Love"? In Sweden where it originated, it's called "F***ing Amal" (Amal is a very small town in Sweden). If you haven't seen it, find it, rent it, watch it--you miight also be able to watch it in sections on YouTube under the Swedish title. It has English subtitles.

 

Haha, no need for subtitles for me but thanks for reminding me of the movie As a Swedish girl it's a Swedish movie I'm ashamed to not have seen yet as it's quite famous here. I've seen two of Lukas Moodyssons other movies like Lilja 4-ever and Mammut but Show me love I have only seen a scene here and there when it's been on TV. I did like Lilja 4-ever and Mammut but they were also quite sad so I suppose I've been hesitating because I'm afraid Show me love would be a sad movie too?

[Scottkaiser65]

hi hello every .. this is Scott kaiser new here in town..

 

i agree with that..

[Wayfara]

I've been feeling off a couple days, I'm not sure why. We got back together, I was happy and then I got the feeling it won't last, it's like I've already started mourning the end of the relationship.

 

E has never been very verbally affectionate. There are times I think she rather wants to be my servant than my girlfriend. It sounds horrible but she likes asking for things she can do for me. We also do what I want most of the times, I think she thinks and I'm more mature and experienced (which is not true) so I must know best.

 

We are intimate when we see each other and it feel very passionate when we do it, I like feeling she loves me and desires me as a girlfriend and I think that is partly the reason I've been wanting sex. She stays in bed with me afterwards but she often seems a bit distant, I get worried that she'll leave sometimes. I suppose I don't feel that useful to her. I have tried to ask if there isn't anything at all she wants done to her and she says no, I'm concerned that the sex might mostly be for my benefit.

 

Normally I'm pretty even-tempered but with her my emotions are much closer to the surface. We had a nice picnic Friday, the weather was wonderful and she was really sweet. As soon as I came home I got this panicky feeling that we probably will break-up. It has come to the point that I've started considering anticipating the breakup by breaking up. I can only imagine how hurt she would be if I really did as it's only been a couple of weeks and as she told me several times that she wanted me to be sure if we would give it another chance. Or maybe she wouldn't care. In my view someone without friends would get lonely sometimes but she says she hasn't made friends because she hasn't felt lonely.

 

I don't know why I'm feeling insecure when things have been mostly good. I've never been like this with a guy, I don't feel insecure with guys. I don't know, maybe it's because I've been stressed about school and we haven't been able to see each other as much as we usually do.

[tabbyloves]

Hey there,

I've been reading your posts for about 4 days now (due to school and stuff) and i couldn't put it down, i had to keep reading lol. This is definitely an interesting situation. I was cheering everytime something went right for you and E and then i'd see something bad had happened ): I can't really give much advise on this though sorry. I'm in a relationship with girl and it's going to be 2 months on sunday ^.^ but we have distance blocking our problem from being affectionate with one another, and its so hard to ty and do everything over the internet..

But anyway, I really hope everything works out for you and E

[DailyDreamer]

Oh no, I just read your recent post.

 

I'm so sorry things aren't going well for you. Do you have that "too good to be true" feeling, so you don't want to continue before E ends it? Or is it more because you feel unfulfilled and want more than what you're getting out of this relationship?

 

Unfortunately, even when you have the answer, sometimes you don't want it. We all continue things longer sometimes, hoping the outcome would and/or could be better at some point. Either that or because you have worked so hard and care so much for the person you're with. I'm not saying in a way where you don't feel like you could find someone else...but more in a way that you don't want to let go of E. There's definitely a strong bond there, but she's stubborn in her ways. Her barrier might very well always be there and she'll either have what she has with you or with no one at all.

 

Man, I am sorry Wayfara. All I can say is that I hope things work out in whatever you feel is best. The decision you make should be the one that makes you happiest.

[chocolatemilk]

Have you tried talking to her about some of your feelings? like not being 'useful' to her and worried that she will leave you?

 

Also, since she asks for things that she can do for you maybe she might be more comfortable with writing a note than expressing herself verbally and you could ask for that?

 

Just a thought but have you thought of asking her if there is something you can do? like not in a sexual context, perhaps a shoulder massage or something like that?

[notsureyet]

Hi Everyone,

 

I've been reading this thread and a heap of others and i'm after some advice. I'm male and am pretty sure im gay but i'd like some point of views on the following situation if you all dont mind.

 

Ok so I meet this guy a few years ago and my imediate thought was OMG hes defiantly gay. After a few weeks we got to talking and hanging out and he actually come to my birthday which was kind of weird considering id known him for four or five weeks. Well anyway as time has past i keep getting mixed signals from him. He's really femminite, dresses nice (always dresses like me), likes musicals, glee and all the stereotypical things that go with really feminine guys. I know you shouldnt judge on stereotypes but im only human. He apparently is always staring at me and smiling, he always laughs at my jokes and they might not even be funny but he still laughs. From what i can tell he has never had a gf either. He talks about moving in together and travelling around the world but never a mention of girls or anything. He never moves away if i touch him or give the occasioanal hug but if others do it he does. His friends are always making cracks at him about being gay but he just ignores them or changes the subject. Well anyway it got the better of me one day so i asked him if he was. He said after a bit of hesitation he wasnt and the girl hed been seeing would find it funny. I was pretty annoyed at that stage so i did some digging and found out he wasnt going out with that girl. He went weird for ages and we didnt hardly talk but its ok now. All my friends tell me hes gay and likes me but im not sure. Hes not ugly or anything and would be quite capable of getting a gf but he never does. I never see him hook up or take a girl home he justs hangs with his friends or me. All the hints are there he looks at me, flirts, talks louder than anyone in the room, wants to hang out, comes over to see me, comes to my work to see me.

 

So anyway just wondering what people think.

[Wayfara]

Hey there,

I've been reading your posts for about 4 days now (due to school and stuff) and i couldn't put it down, i had to keep reading lol. This is definitely an interesting situation. I was cheering everytime something went right for you and E and then i'd see something bad had happened ): I can't really give much advise on this though sorry. I'm in a relationship with girl and it's going to be 2 months on sunday ^.^ but we have distance blocking our problem from being affectionate with one another, and its so hard to ty and do everything over the internet..

But anyway, I really hope everything works out for you and E

 

Thanks tabbyloves, it means a lot, I hope things work out for you and your girlfriend too.

 

I guess I'm afraid our relationship will never be normal and stable. Things have always been kind of up and down between us and I know stable and healthy relationships aren't supposed to be like that. I also know you are not supposed to feel insecure in a relationship.

 

Do you have that "too good to be true" feeling, so you don't want to continue before E ends it? Or is it more because you feel unfulfilled and want more than what you're getting out of this relationship?

 

Both but unfulfilled might be the wrong word. When I got to know her it was like a new world opened to me. It's hard to find someone on the same wavelength who still challenges you. If they think too differently you just don't understand them, if they think too alike it gets boring, if they are much smarter you feel lectured, if they are much dumber you don't learn anything. With her I feel like we make each other grow and inspire each other to be better, I like that and I've not found quite the same thing with someone else. The thing is I feel like I'm bound to always feel insecure with her.

 

The last weeks have been nothing but great but still I feel insecure and I'm afraid I'm going to blow it because of my insecurities. I don't know if it's because of lack of verbal affirmation from her or me being so into her making it feel so scary.

 

Have you tried talking to her about some of your feelings? like not being 'useful' to her and worried that she will leave you?

 

I haven't told her. Should I? Won't it seem too needy?

 

Also, since she asks for things that she can do for you maybe she might be more comfortable with writing a note than expressing herself verbally and you could ask for that?

 

You mean asking for sweet notes?

 

Just a thought but have you thought of asking her if there is something you can do? like not in a sexual context, perhaps a shoulder massage or something like that?

 

I have offered massages but she never wants one I have asked why and she has said massages are too touchy.

[Wayfara]

I've been reading this thread and a heap of others and i'm after some advice. I'm male and am pretty sure im gay but i'd like some point of views on the following situation if you all dont mind.

 

He sounds like he could be in the closet as he felt like he had invent a girlfriend but it's hard to say. Sorry for not being to much help. You will probably get more replies if you make your own thread, new threads get thrown up on the front page so more people see them.

[chocolatemilk]

I don't think it's needy, not in the context of a relationship especially if it is something that makes you question its long-term survival and yeah, I mean like a sweet note.

[Wayfara]

I have talked to her. She says she is serious about us and that she wouldn't get involved with me otherwise however she thinks saying "I love you", using pet names etc is corny and doesn't think it says anything about the intensity of one's feelings, that everyone with a crush think they are in love and the next month they are in love with someone else. She thinks big words should be used only sparingly. I told her about not feeling very useful to her and she said she likes when I hug and hold her and when we cuddle but we already do that.

 

Is it worrying that she thinks saying "I love you" is corny? I tell her I love her all the time so she must think I'm super corny then. I don't know, she isn't unaffectionate, we hug a lot, she always seems happy to see me.

 

I didn't ask her about the sweet notes because if she thinks saying I love you is corny she probably thinks writing it is corny too. I want to say though she has given me sweet notes before but they mostly go "To my very best friend ..." and she never gives them straight in my hand, like once she gave me a dvd movie and the card was inside the box which I didn't find it until much later.

[chocolatemilk]

I don't really think it is too much of a worry. I'd worry if she wasn't affectionate at all. You could try experiment with not saying it and find other ways to show that you care? and see what that's like. You know to try it how she does it sometimes and see how it is like from her perspective?

 

I suppose you didn't ask her how she feels when you say it?

[Wayfara]

Thank you for your reply. As my friends all seem to think I should be with a guy they are not very objective and it's hard to not have anyone to talk with about relationship stuff, it's easy to blow up small things into something huge in your mind.

 

I suppose you didn't ask her how she feels when you say it?

 

I sort of asked her that later. She said it made her uncomfortable in the beginning in our first relationship because she thought I had her on a pedestal and she was worried about not living up to my expectations. She is used to it now, it's part of my personality and says she didn't mean I am corny, that it's like her hating pink but on me it's not that bad.

 

I guess it means it doesn't bother her but at the same maybe it doesn't do much for her either?

 

Saying it is not the only way I show I care, I like giving her sweet notes, take her out. I tease her a lot too, I call her darling because I know she hates it but teasing can be a way to show affection too (well I tease everyone but especially her), I like provoking her a little. But E is unquestionable more thoughtful than I am in many ways, I have hardly ever baked anything for her and while I have bought things to her when I'm shopping my mind is usually elsewhere so it doesn't come to me naturally like it seems to her, I have to plan it in advance. She always offers to help, I like helping too but my brain isn't as quick as to recognizing when to help.

 

Well while going through what she does do it does seem a little silly worrying about what she doesn't.

[teller-of-tales]

Wayfara, I don't suppose you will still be updating this thread, but if you and E are still together, I hope you have melted her defenses; if not, I still hope the two of you are very happy nevertheless.

 

Thanks for sharing your story with us, I found it quite inspiring to be honest.

 

As for verbal affection, perhaps you could find ways to encourage it somehow? Like doing something you know she likes whenever she says the "big words" as she puts it... I'm sure she likes it when you express your affection for her verbally so it shouldn't be a big leap from that to understanding that you would like it too if she does it more often.

[Wayfara]

Wayfara, I don't suppose you will still be updating this thread, but if you and E are still together, I hope you have melted her defenses; if not, I still hope the two of you are very happy nevertheless.

 

Thanks for sharing your story with us, I found it quite inspiring to be honest.

 

As for verbal affection, perhaps you could find ways to encourage it somehow? Like doing something you know she likes whenever she says the "big words" as she puts it... I'm sure she likes it when you express your affection for her verbally so it shouldn't be a big leap from that to understanding that you would like it too if she does it more often.

 

Hi teller-of-tales. I've been thinking of updating but as it's been awhile I didn't think anyone remembered the thread. Things have been have been very good surprisingly so. Well it was a bit rocky in the beginning, I think it took us both some time to get used to being together again.

 

She is still not very verbal, she has said she loves me one time since we got back together, like in a very wavering, wooden way, "I... hm... love you" sort of lol. Well she hugged me afterward, told me how I'm her best friend. She says pretty frequently she likes me tons and tons, and a few times that she admires me. Maybe she is shy. She gave me an envelope a couple of weeks ago and I was about to open it and she was like, almost shocked, "Don't read it while I'm here". This of course made me more all the more curious to read it and she ended up snatching it back and only returned just before she was leaving. She has yet to put down "I love you" in writing but her cards and letters are very heartfelt. It feels nice to get something in handwriting too, makes it personal, and her handwriting is funny to see, so tight and tiny while using so much force it's a surprise the paper doesn't break.

[teller-of-tales]

Hi Wayfara, I'm glad to hear that you and E are doing well!

 

I don't think E is shy exactly, just very introverted. I can sort of understand how she feels since I am an introvert myself, and generally we tend to be able to express ourselves better through writing. From what you're saying it sounds like E is gradually opening up. But then her reserve is also quite charming, isn't it.

 

Do keep updating, it's such a pleasure to read your updates; heck, I've never forgotten about this thread since I started reading it back in 2007! I'm sure there are many here who are the same but they are just lurking.

[Wayfara]

then her reserve is also quite charming, isn't it.

 

Maybe Yes. It's weird how something can frustrate you yet it you also find it endearing. And as much I want her to open up I don't think I would like it much if she went the other extreme blowing up my phone with sweet notes about how much loves me, would feel like someone had kidnapped her and replaced her with a bad copy.

 

Well, got to go now, supposed to meet her in an hour

[Iggles]

Hey Wayfara! Thanks for the update. So glad to hear that you and E are still together and are doing well!

 

At 65 pages, this is the longest thread I've read. I agree with the other posters that you are an incredible writer. This all read like a novel, and it's amazing that you have a detailed story here of you and E's journey together. The advice given along the way was great and good to see everyone here being so supportive and helpful.

 

Best of luck to you both!

[Wayfara]

Thanks for the kind words Yes, 65 pages is quite long lol, I am surprised every time anyone manages to read it. I can be pretty talkative, should hear me retelling movies, takes almost as much time as watching them haha.

 

The advice given along the way was great and good to see everyone here being so supportive and helpful.

 

The posters have been very supportive, I will always be in debt for all the help I have received.

[teller-of-tales]

One day, (assuming E is okay with it of course) you should write a novel about your experiences, Wayfara.

 

I've been reading some articles on asexuality recently, does E still consider herself asexual? She does seem quite obviously sexually attracted to you though. Or maybe she is demisexual?

[Wayfara]

One day, (assuming E is okay with it of course) you should write a novel about your experiences, Wayfara.

 

Haha, you really think anyone would want to read about a bully and one anti everything? I don't know how E would feel about it as she is a private person. Maybe if it was a way to do it anonymously and there was some money into it, but lesbians are in minority and Sweden is a small country so there is probably not that big market for a lesbian book. I do like writing though and if I ever write a book I will probably use some of it as inspiration.

 

I've been reading some articles on asexuality recently, does E still consider herself asexual? She does seem quite obviously sexually attracted to you though. Or maybe she is demisexual?

 

I thought she could be asexual in the beginning as she always denied being interested in anyone but she never told me herself she was asexual. She says she's gay, but also that I'm the only one she has thought of in that way. I'm not sure how she knows she is gay if I'm really the only woman she has been sexually attracted to but she said one time, when she still was very much against having sex, that the only thing she could think as worse than lesbian sex was heterosexual sex. I don't really know what she considers herself (besides gay), she still doesn't want reciprocation. I told her I could touch her like she touches her herself, she said she didn't touch herself.