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Wayfara,

First off, I want to thank you for starting this thread and sharing such huge intimate details regarding your relationship between you and E. Honestly, when I first wandered in here and saw the first post being in 2007, I never expected to find the last post coming from you. I never thought I'd see something recent from the infamous Wayfara.

 

I'm not sure what to say in terms of advice or anything along that nature. You're a strong independent woman and I respect and admire you for that. I'm in my 30's and I don't think I have nearly as much strength as you do. I say this because it has taken me a very long time to try and be comfortable with my sexuality (I'm pretty sure I like women only) and I haven't gotten totally there yet. I know you haven't made a decision between men or women, but I have a great respect for your ability to think things through, even if you fell backwards with E several times. It's tough and I'm currently going through a break-up with someone I have gone in circles with. I am very much in love with that person, even though they never treated me the way I deserved to be treated. So while I go along with NC, it isn't what I want. It feels more like a game...to wait it out and see what happens next. I hate that charade, but my heart does the thinking and negates what my mind says. Pretty frustrating, but what can I say? ...I'm a lover and grow weak for those I grow so attached to.

 

Whether you eventually part ways or something more develops with E, I wish you the best of luck. You have endured a lot but you truly love this girl. Throughout all 60 pages in this thread, my heart went out to you. I wanted a happy ending, but that isn't always life. I'm not saying you're doomed...not in the least. You are both still young and there are feelings still there.

 

Whatever happens next, I look forward to reading all about it. Again, thank you for sharing so much. You have helped me significantly in taking my mind off my recent break-up and I feel a connection with you, almost like a long lost friend since I have read so many well-written thought out posts.

 

Take care, Wayfara. May you find your special someone and have a very happy love life. If your partner ends up somehow being E or not, I hope you are both able to remain in each others lives. It may not be the best thing or may not seem like it right now, but that's me. I'm an optimistic and I hate losing those I love.

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Hi DailyDreamer sorry for taking time to reply, I have had many things on my mind this last week.

 

Wayfara,

First off, I want to thank you for starting this thread and sharing such huge intimate details regarding your relationship between you and E. Honestly, when I first wandered in here and saw the first post being in 2007, I never expected to find the last post coming from you. I never thought I'd see something recent from the infamous Wayfara.

 

It's really me who should be grateful to those who have listened to 60 pages of my venting

 

I'm in my 30's and I don't think I have nearly as much strength as you do. I say this because it has taken me a very long time to try and be comfortable with my sexuality (I'm pretty sure I like women only) and I haven't gotten totally there yet. I know you haven't made a decision between men or women, but I have a great respect for your ability to think things through

 

I have had many opportunities to get with attractive guys but I never take them. I haven't had that many opportunities with women as I look pretty straight, only friends who wanted to kiss to make the guys look, which would feel fake. Generally I find women are beautiful but not sexy, I can't really point out why feels different with E. I confessed to a friend not long ago about not having done it with a man yet, she didn't believe me but told me that if I was serious, then I shouldn't knock until I try it, that I should just try, and if I don't like it I just don't have to do it again. Did you need to be with a guy to get it out of system before deciding you like women only?

 

So while I go along with NC, it isn't what I want. It feels more like a game...to wait it out and see what happens next.

 

I know what you are saying, I feel the same. I saw her a week ago, things got emotional and weird, I'm battling myself about going to see her and confront her and sticking to NC for real. I fully intentended to see her the day after, so excited to put everything straight, but I got sick with fever, now I almost feel like I lost my timing. My friends also tell me to stay strong and not do anything stupid.

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Hi DailyDreamer sorry for taking time to reply, I have had many things on my mind this last week.

 

 

 

It's really me who should be grateful to those who have listened to 60 pages of my venting

 

No worries at all. I was so happy to see a response so quick, actually. Plus as others have said, your story was written out so well, I was addicted and couldn't stop reading. I couldn't necessarily relate to your particular story, but I connected and love following along.

 

 

 

I have had many opportunities to get with attractive guys but I never take them. I haven't had that many opportunities with women as I look pretty straight, only friends who wanted to kiss to make the guys look, which would feel fake. Generally I find women are beautiful but not sexy, I can't really point out why feels different with E. I confessed to a friend not long ago about not having done it with a man yet, she didn't believe me but told me that if I was serious, then I shouldn't knock until I try it, that I should just try, and if I don't like it I just don't have to do it again. Did you need to be with a guy to get it out of system before deciding you like women only?

I took a day to think about this after initially reading it. When I was younger, I enjoyed hanging out with guy friends. I've always been a tomboy and have had many guys as close friends. I was never the type of girl to envision herself in a wedding and all that. I always felt off, but I assumed it would hit me eventually. For some silly reason, I thought I'd meet my dream guy in college and go from there. However, I had odd feelings towards my girl friends at a young age and then in high school, I stood dead in my tracks...being seriously attracted to a classmate...a female classmate. I often thought about it but never acted on it. I went to all the school dances with a good guy friend and many family and friends assumed we were somewhat of a thing. I never felt that way for him and then when I went to college, I dated a few guys there and again...nothing. I wasn't enjoying myself and never wanted to so much as make out, but I did. In fact, after my very first make-out session with a boyfriend...I cried the entire way home after he left my car to drive home in his. I hated for it not feeling right.

 

Then after doing several deceptive things I shouldn't have, I tried dating another guy I met and that thoroughly confirmed it. I was so stressed, I bought a pack of cigarettes to smoke from the realization. I get better about who I am each day, but it doesn't necessarily make it any easier.

 

I won't go into detail with the things I did, but to glaze over the difference between men and women...with women, I feel this electric connection to those I'm attracted to. My body will tingle and I actually want to progress and do something with her. With guys, it's stale and flat. I get hugs and see their eagerness and have no interest in returning it, which makes me feel bad because I'm sure I'd be in a relationship right now with a man. I get asked out by guys every so often, but obviously I want to find a girlfriend and fill that void, connect with them like I feel I would. So I have never gone the whole way with a man, as I have no interest in doing so. Why go through with it if the kissing and touching didn't ignite anything for me?

 

Who knows, there very well could be a guy out there who does it for me, but I have yet to see him. Numerous women have given me that feeling, but sadly never a man.

 

 

 

I know what you are saying, I feel the same. I saw her a week ago, things got emotional and weird, I'm battling myself about going to see her and confront her and sticking to NC for real. I fully intentended to see her the day after, so excited to put everything straight, but I got sick with fever, now I almost feel like I lost my timing. My friends also tell me to stay strong and not do anything stupid.

I believe your case is worse than mine. I have had two relationships with women, but both were long distance and I never got far enough to meet physically in person. The reason I say your case is worse because I can only imagine how it would feel to have that physical connection and then the possibility of running into them, while my NC is easier to carry out...well, kind of. The feelings were there for me and they were most definitely the strongest feelings in my life. I was shocked and saddened when it ended, but hopefully the one for me is still out there and I haven't met her yet.

 

Until that happens, I hope I can maintain a friendship with the last person I was with. It doesn't seem possible right now because it would hurt beyond anything if I heard she found someone else, but who knows...maybe someday?

 

I hope I didn't ramble on too much and that I made sense. Maybe I will share my entire story on here at some point. It makes for an interesting one, that's for sure.

 

Take care, Wayfara and I send strength your way in whatever you want most. In the end, your heart makes the decisions. I always listen to my close friends, but my heart will do as it wishes, whether it be the wrong or right choice.

 

On a random note, feel free to PM me. I'm always available to chat or just read if you need to talk to someone. I consider myself to be a fairly good listener/reader.

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  • 4 weeks later...

The last few weeks have been very stressful, for good and bad, but school is over now and my parents just left for their vacation asking me to take care of the house while they are away.

 

When I was younger, I enjoyed hanging out with guy friends. I've always been a tomboy and have had many guys as close friends. I was never the type of girl to envision herself in a wedding and all that. I always felt off, but I assumed it would hit me eventually. For some silly reason, I thought I'd meet my dream guy in college and go from there.

 

I see myself as pretty feminine, well I have some interests that could be considered more masculine but I love dressing up, watching chick flicks, as a kid I was drawing wedding dresses and handsome grooms all over the place. The funny thing is that I never felt that feminine with a guy, when I'm with guys I feel like one in the gang, well I get hit on and I like the attention but it kind of feels like a game to me. And it should really be the other way around but when I am with E I feel very feminine, it just feels completely different on the inside.

 

I dated a few guys there and again...nothing. I wasn't enjoying myself and never wanted to so much as make out, but I did. In fact, after my very first make-out session with a boyfriend...I cried the entire way home after he left my car to drive home in his. I hated for it not feeling right.

 

I had a similar reaction after my first make-out session with a man but I'm not sure if it had to with his gender or pushing myself to do things when I still had feelings for someone else.

 

Why go through with it if the kissing and touching didn't ignite anything for me?

 

This so true and insightful, I'm not against of doing it with a man as I have nothing against men but I will let happen when I meet a man I can't put my hands off from, no need to force it as you say.

 

I hope I didn't ramble on too much and that I made sense. Maybe I will share my entire story on here at some point. It makes for an interesting one, that's for sure.

 

I very much like long replies to read so don't worry about it. Yes, that's what this site is used for. I don't you can put a quantity on someone's pain, I think long distance breakups can hurt just as bad.

 

Take care, Wayfara and I send strength your way in whatever you want most. In the end, your heart makes the decisions. I always listen to my close friends, but my heart will do as it wishes, whether it be the wrong or right choice.

I think I hit a nerve with her when she came to give back the stuff I had asked her. We were telling each other to take care, both getting a bit emotional about it. She was hugging me, telling me she would really miss me, that it had been an honor to get to know me. I'm not used to people saying stuff like that so solemnly to me, I suppose I feel kind of undeserving when I'm just a regular girl, I was really touched, had no idea she felt that way. Then I blurted out that when I've found someone else we could be friends again and she was like "You are unbelievable..." with a tone that was so cold, like she was disappointed with me. Then she just told me to have a good life and went.

 

My friends have told me to not let her unfriendliness bother me, that she's just jealous I'm living my life without her. But I feel so bad about it, I can see why we shouldn't be friends right now but I wanted to end it in good terms and I did eventually want to be friends with her again. I'm doing good when I'm distracted but now that things have calmed it's harder to push it back and have it stay there. Today it's midsummer's eve, the big drinking day of the year, I'll try to stay away from the alcohol, I would probably do something stupid.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well I ended up seeing E anyway. I was out with a couple of my friends and I couldn't bear it anymore so I left them and went there and I told her I wanted to talk about last time, that I was worried that I had upset her. She said things between us were fine, that I had nothing to worry about. Well then we were just standing by her door getting awkward, she asked me if there was anything else I wanted... so it didn't seem like she was going to invite me in. I didn't know what to tell her at first as it had been mine idea we would stop seeing each other so I thought it would look foolish if I said I wanted to be friends again... but then I didn't care anymore and just told her like it was, that I missed her.... I was so sure she reproach me for coming but she just grabbed and hugged me, like very tight, for a long while. She's lean but feels so solid, I wanted her to hold me forever.

 

We hanged out that day just like old times, talking and laughing, went around town, saw a movie together when we got home. We shared bed that night too, I was happy just being there with her... I cuddled up to her, she usually wants me to sleep on the other side of the bed but she didn't say anything. The day after we were playing poker just the two of us as the weather was bad, we were teasing each other a lot and then one moment we like stopped paying attention to the game, just smiling. I caressed her arm a little and then we kissed... It all felt so wonderful kissing, hugging, touching, kissing more, well we were kissing a lot... Had she wanted to go further I wouldn't have hesitated but, well, we stopped because she didn't think it was appropriate.

 

Anyway I saw that as my chance to tell her that if we got get back together it wouldn't be inappropriate any longer, told her it meant a lot to me that we had our first times together. And she said her first sexual experience wasn't with me as she jerked a man off before we had our thing... I was so shocked because I thought she was disgusted by anything related to sex... and she said "yeah, it was disgusting", that she had given him a condom because she didn't want direct contact with it. It didn't make sense why she would do it if it was disgusting so well I thought maybe she was forced to but she said 'no, she offered to do it', that her view of sex didn't develop from any supposed "trauma", everything she has seen has only confirmed what she already knew, that sex is gross and slimy and only resolves around getting off. Then she let me know that if I ever told her family she would never forgive me... and that she wanted me to go. Well it didn't seem fair to me that she was always the one kicking me out and never the other way around and she was like "I live here, you don't" so it seemed fair to her that I should be the one going.

 

Anyway she seemed so resolute of wanting me out of there so I did as she said.

 

She told me she was a lesbian but I'm not so sure anymore. I've a hard time imagining she offered to do it with a random guy so I'm thinking it was B... Well I don't know what to think. We were having a great time, I thought I was finally reaching out to her and then she tells me this and wants me to leave.

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Thought I should give an update.

 

I went to the shop she works. She told me to wait for her at the park. I did and we sat down on a bench just being quiet for awhile. Then she said she was sorry for kicking me out. I accepted the apology and asked her if the incident she told me about happened after we broke up. Well it's safe to say it was before our breakup, she was 13 so it was ten years ago. I asked her if she liked the guy (I thought it could have been a childhood crush) and she laughed and said "certainly not". It was with an older man, friends with her mother, who thought she was his soulmate.

 

Apparently he came one time when she was at home alone and wanted to 'show her what love was' and didn't seem to want to hear she didn't want to in his enthusiasm. Her mother used to complain about men getting tired after their orgasms so she naively thought if she offered him a handjob and got him off fast he would be too tired for anything else. She says I'm the only one she's okay hugging her, she has an aversion against touch, makes her feel out of control. In retrospect she doesn't know if he actually would have done anything to her if she had kept strong but the fear of him going to touch her was scaring her so much that she was ready to take any stupid measures to prevent it. Had she just waited a little while longer her family would have come home before such stupid rash measures would have been necessary, they came just after she had "finished" him and she never told anyone because she too ashamed over what she had done.

 

The way she put it the time before I was thinking she and B got close after I broke up with her...

 

She obviously thinks it wasn't forced because she offered but I think that creepy man should have known better, kids that age shouldn't be put in that situation. Well she said she just wanted to come clean about it as I was romanticizing what happened between us, he is dead since long and she hardly thinks of it nowadays.

 

I asked her when we would see each other and she looked at me in the eyes, smiled at me like she thought it was funny and then told me point blank 'I shouldn't waste more time on her'. She is happy with the life she has and I shouldn't let her hold me back.

 

Anyway sometimes it hurts to hear the truth...

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So you finally get to hear the truth. I would call that rape, she did it at the threat of worse, so it was certainly not consensual and she just wasn't old enough to consent. He should have known better, but then he was a goddamn pedophile so what do you expect?

 

This was certainly a "trauma" for her, whether or not she cares to admit it and she is still suffering from that, and from her upbringing. I'm going to be harsh but I think her mother was downright negligent, if not outright abusive in the way she brought her up, it does make you wonder if there wasn't more to this. The whole story itself begs the question, why did she have condoms in the first place?

 

Either way, its good she confided in you, I hope in the future she has the courage to seek professional support.

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She says she didn't let him kiss her or touch her and that was the only thing that happened, but I don't know. She knew where her mother was having her condoms, her mother is not very discreet... so it was not E's condoms.

 

Yeah, she doesn't want to admit this being a trauma and it's hard to know what to say to her when she doesn't like pity She was acting like it was no big deal as people have much worse happen to them all the time. I tried to tell her it couldn't have been consensual as she was just a kid but that annoyed her beacuse she was only two years under the age of consent here so she wants to take her part of the responsibility for what happened.

 

There is still prejudices against therapy here, people think only severe nutcases seek it.

 

She told me to not waste my time with her, do you think she means it? Should I try to talk her? I want to support her but I confess I'm not very good in knowing what to say in a situation like this.

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I think the fact you have been around so long helps, she obviously trusts you a lot. I think maybe the best thing for her is to be a stable presence in her life and letting her open up when it suits her. Though, I know it's asking a lot since you have feelings for her and you need to look out for yourself most of all. I suppose, if I were in your position I would let her come to you but she doesn't seem like the type that would. She told you not to waste your time on her, which isn't the same as telling you to stay away, but I think you need to take her words at face value here, if you want to have her in your life, you need to scale back your expectations, she is likely never going to be the girlfriend or even just friend that you want her to be and she knows this.

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She told you not to waste your time on her, which isn't the same as telling you to stay away, but I think you need to take her words at face value here, if you want to have her in your life, you need to scale back your expectations, she is likely never going to be the girlfriend or even just friend that you want her to be and she knows this.

 

Maybe I could tell her I wouldn't have any expectations on her in a relationship or friendship. Do you think she likes me as a friend or as a girlfriend? What expectations do you think she thinks I have?

 

Do you think there is a chance she's not lesbian and just turned off by straight sex? People like affection and well I have been there and been available, it could explain her mixed signals.

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I suppose I'm asking because if she turned gay because of what happened then everything that has been between us must have been forced on her part

 

Anyway I think I'm going to take a couple of movies with me and ask her if she wants to watch some of them with me tonight and see what she says about that.

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 3 months later...

It's been like four months since I last posted here. Things between E and I have been really really good, hanging out as friends, sometimes spending the weekends together. She's been really nice.

 

There has been nothing physical between us until well Saturday... It wasn't planed, ironically we were talking in her bed how we wanted to be friends forever just before, and at some point we just kissed. And that escalated pretty fast to more kissing, making out... and the rest. It felt so intimate and passionate and I've been longing for to close to her that way again, I was really happy. But I don't know how she enjoyed it as the focus was all on me. I played with her belt after because I wanted to return the favor but I think she misunderstood and thought I wanted more, I tried to be more assertive later in the night and she seemed interested, well until I told I didn't mean for me but for her and then she was all tired and wanted to sleep. I noticed she wasn't sleeping though, and in the middle of the night she went up and never returned so I went up to look for her and she was sitting on the sofa. She told me to go back to sleep and I said the bed felt so empty without her, I don't know if she was sad, it was dark, anyway we hugged for awhile and she came back with me.

 

In the morning she wasn't very talkative but asked me to stay for breakfast and we made pancakes. When we were saying good bye she cupped my face and held me like that just looking at me. I asked her if she wanted to go to the movies with me, she said no, she needed to process and asked me to give her a week.

 

I haven't talked to her since, which was Sunday morning so I'm thinking of going there Sunday because then I've given her the week she asked for. But not knowing if she's okay with what happened just kills me, I'm excited, scared, it's changing every minute. We were both sober this time she can't give me the drunk excuse as she did last time but I'm still worried she's maybe wasn't ready. I'm also feeling selfish for taking pleasure and giving none. Should I have been more aggressive? I want her to give us a new chance so bad, but I don't want to scare her away by pressuring her. What do I tell her?

 

I'm a bit sleepy so sorry för any spelling mistakes. It's been a time since I last posted but I'm grateful for those who have taken their time to read my vents.

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I looked up "pillow princess" and it says it's someone who just wants to receive. Even if I'm not normally that attracted to the female body I am very attracted to her and I wouldn't have any problem with reciprocating, I very much want to touch her too. Obviously I wouldn't want her to feel forced to, it wouldn't be any point to it if she didn't enjoy it, but why wouldn't she want reciprocation? Could it be that she sees me more as a sex toy than anything else?

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I think pillow princess has mostly a negative connotation, but if she wanted that way, that arrangement wouldn't be considered a negative thing (except for your feelings lol). It could just be her preference, it's not really possible to speculate on why it is. I think if you want to reciprocate, it would have to be with someone else, who wants what you want but obviously I don't speak for her. You should try to bring it up with her.

 

I doubt she sees you as just a sex toy, do you really think she is that kind of person?

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Had it just been mindless sex with someone I wasn't that into I don't think I would have cared that much, it's because I'm crazy about her that I want to. If she doesn't want to be touched does she get out anything of sex?

 

She has said so many times sex is only about lust and orgasms and has nothing to do with love so I can't help wondering sometimes if she feels that with me too... She told me she wanted to 'do' me (the dirty word for doing someone), she always acts a bit weird when she gets into that mood almost as she's intentionally crude and blunt to get me to shoot her down or something but I never do, I told she I was hers if she wanted me.

 

She does seem to care about me a lot, I had a bad fight with my parents a time ago and I called her and she asked me if I wanted her to come as she heard I was sad. I was so angry at my parents and she stayed over the night and luckily talked me out from my crazy plan to get back them. I later gave her a set of cups in appreciation for being there for me and she seemed so happy about my present, hugged me several times.

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Yes, you can get things out of sex even if you aren't touched. Giving is a pleasure in itself. Sex is part psychological, part emotional and part physical, it can satisfy other needs beyond what is most obvious. So likely it gives her pleasure to give you pleasure and could well be a way that she feels at least partly safe and comfortable in participating in sex, so really there wouldn't be anything wrong with that in itself.

 

Obviously if there was that sort of arrangement you miss out on something yourself, but if that works for you then why not?

 

As for what she thinks of you, if she treats you well, then that is a good indication of how she feels about you.

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I'm a little worried it means I'm a doormat for having sex with someone who doesn't even take her clothes off (with the exception for the shirt) but in the moment I'm not really thinking and just want to be intimate with her. We've had a thing going on for over four years and even for the year I didn't see her I was still thinking of her. So is it bad that I'm actually considering being okay with it? lol I'm totally in love with her and if she really wants it that way...

 

Do you think it could be she doesn't let me touch her because she doesn't feel safe and comfortable with receiving?

 

I'm excited to hear what she thinks about us tomorrow but I'm worried she is regretting what happened, not sure if it's a good sign she asked for a whole week to process.

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I'm a little worried it means I'm a doormat for having sex with someone who doesn't even take her clothes off (with the exception for the shirt) but in the moment I'm not really thinking and just want to be intimate with her. We've had a thing going on for over four years and even for the year I didn't see her I was still thinking of her. So is it bad that I'm actually considering being okay with it? lol I'm totally in love with her and if she really wants it that way...

 

Do you think it could be she doesn't let me touch her because she doesn't feel safe and comfortable with receiving?

 

I'm excited to hear what she thinks about us tomorrow but I'm worried she is regretting what happened, not sure if it's a good sign she asked for a whole week to process.

 

 

It wouldn't make you are doormat per se, submissive, yes, but they have their own role to fulfill and no there wouldn't be anything wrong with that if it was what you both wanted. You would be far from the first, its not as uncommon as you would think. I was reading through some of your old posts, and she just comes off as very dominant sexually, emotionally etc and needing control. So now I wonder if most of her hangup regarding sex and relationships could be related to simply not wanting/being averse to play a submissive role and not realizing that it is an option for her not to.

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I've never heard of straight couples where one of them refuses to undress but I mostly have straight friends. The thing with E is that she kind of has two sides, one dominant and one not so much. As a friend she's actually a bit of a pushover, mostly happy doing with whatever I want to do, well she'll say when it's something she absolutely doesn't want to do but even then many times I can still persuade her lol. It's when things get sexual or romantic she gets like that. I like getting my way so I would probably not be happy with someone who was dominant all the time but I am very attracted to her more assertive side.

 

I will be going to her in an hour or two, I'll try not to push her.

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