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Recently I discovered a whole new world exists along side of our own. It's mostly underground, but there is a mass of stuff on the internet which relates to it.


It is called the 'Dom/sub' lifestyle. In this type of lifestyle or relationship, a self-professed 'dominant' person (not always, but usually a male) gets together with a self-professed 'submissive' person (usually a woman). The relationship can be anything from one of a fairly traditional 'biblical' one (based on the New Testament writings of St Paul), to an extreme one which involves bondage, discipline, branding, piercing, 'collaring' and complete obedience of the 'slave' by the 'master'. I am not just talking a bit of occasional kinky stuff - I am talking about a complete lifestyle in which the Dom is the 'Master' or the 'Top' and the slave is the 'sub' or the 'bottom'. The role extends even into the written language... 'subs' use lower-case letters for 'I' and their initials, whereas the Master is always referred to as He and Him.


The subs seem to believe that they are by nature submissive, and state they need to be ruled, controlled and punished. It is my view, based on what I have seen and read, that both doms and subs are people who have been very damaged in childhood, and rather than reaching out and seeking help to become whole again, have gravitated towards a twilight, hidden, fetishistic existence which is damaging for all concerned, ESPECIALLY any children involved in it.


My question is, though people have a democratic right to live as they want (as long as it is within the law of course - although I would question the legality of a lot of Dom/sub practices), how do we reach people who are living in voluntary and extreme slavery? Should we just let them be, or try to reach out to them?


Anyone who is interested may wish to email me (scorpitarius@link removed) , and I will direct them to relevant internet sites for further information.



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Yep, let it be, both parties are doing doing exaclty what they want and desire, and if you learn more youll discover that it the "submissive" that is in control of the whole thing.


You believe that anyone that doesnt do what YOU consider normal, that they must be suffering from some kind of childhood trauma or something.


And even believe that laws should exsist to control what people do in their bedrooms so who is going to decide what is normal and what is not? your bible? the supreme court? what are we going to have, Sex police?


These people are not being forced to do anything they dont want, they dont hurt anyone, and they enjoy it, so what is really bothering you? maybe you should look into your own past and ask yourself, why is it you have this need to control the actions of others and their lives, Mmmm sounds like a domination fetish doesnt it, see, your no different, well on second hand, your worse, at least in the Dom/Sub they both chose their lifes, you on the other hand want to force your lifesyle on others whether they like it or not, who is worse?


Oh and one more thing, "Voluntary Slavery" as you call it is, is an oxymoron, a contradiction, because its not slavery if they volunteer, slavery is when is more like being forced to act and do what you dont want, for example being forced to live and act what YOU consider normal.


Well guess what, I dont want to be your slave.

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Why do so many people think that if you don't like something you must secretly either be wanting to join in with it, or want to control it.


If that argument was valid, all doctors would be secret poisoners and all peace campaigners would be secret gun-runners. And you would be like me.




Freedom is fine, but when the people concerned are hurting their children, they are abusing their freedoms.


Or is that all right by you?

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Why do so many people think that if you don't like something you must secretly either be wanting to join in with it, or want to control it.


Why?, because you wrote:


though people have a democratic right to live as they want (as long as it is within the law of course - although I would question the legality of a lot of Dom/sub practices


You show how you prefer that people live under the rules YOU believe is normal.


Then you ask:


Freedom is fine, but when the people concerned are hurting their children, they are abusing their freedoms.


Or is that all right by you?


And ill answer again with some questions:


So do you allow your children in your bedroom when your practicing your "Normal" sex life?


Who said these people that you think need YOUR help or YOUR laws to control their actions bring their children into their bedrooms or force them into it? thats just something you want to believe to justify your beleifs.


The fact is, that these same people, when they leave their bedrooms, are doctors, bus drivers, pilots, secretarys, they are every day people, and are well aware of what is sexual fantasy playing and what is reality.


Its people like you, that want to force their beliefs on others, that are the real danger, and thank goodness there ARE laws that protect us against people like you. again, I dont want to live under your slavery, I am glad I live in a free society where people can live the way they want as long as no one gets hurt (without there consent ).


Oh and by the way, I am not into S&M or any of that, I would probably fall into what YOU consider normal, the only difference is I dont feel the need to control others and force others to live "my" normal sexual preferences.

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Hello there,

I understand you have been learning about BDSM lifestyles and have a differing opinion of how they work.

I have recently began a new friendship with a person who follows this lifestyle. I can tell you that she does this on her own free will and is quite mentally healthy with it. This is not something that is forced on her, which is what the word "slavery" implies, but moreso something that she chooses. I have read up on this since meeting her, and while I by no means consider myself an expert, I do understand that it is not "evil" or "unhealthy" by any means. In fact, in some ways it can be a stress reliever for her.

As far as children go, many of the people I have met through my friend who are into this lifestyle as well, do not have children. My friend, specifically, has decided not to have children as that's not what she desires. While yes, it is true that some do have children, as Giglgamesh said, they don't bring their children into their bedrooms.

My suggestion to you is, if you don't agree with it, then make the choice not to do it. Unless you know of a certain case of where children were abused, I would not worry too much about it. If you do, then as with any case of child abuse, report it. "Normal" is an overrated word as no two people are alike. I hope this helped and best wishes!

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It has little to do with what goes on in people's bedrooms. It's to do with LIFESTYLES. It means they carry their slave/master behaviour into their everyday life. What consenting adults do in the privacy of their bedroom, dungeon, cellar, attic, wardrobe, pantry is between them. Good for them - we all like a little fun, if that's all it is and no third innocent third parties get hurt.

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hello...Just like to throw in my two pennies worth..


First of all within the BDSM there is a difference between a sub and slavery...and I mention this because of the subject of your topic. Within BDSM a slave has no rights whatsoever. When they enter that contract (and yes they actually do make formal verbal or written contracts) it specifies whether the person is a submissives (where they do have the right to say no or to stop) or a slave (where they voluntarily give up the right for a period of time).


I can tell you for a fact that within this scene both parties go in with their eyes very much wide open and I would stand up and argue that couples in the BDSM have more open communication than so called "normal" couples. They have to, because BDSM is much more than being tied up and having kinky sex once in a while, its a total way of life, and if one partner is not receiving certain satisfaction in those areas of life, then they communicate it to eachother.


This so called new world is more prevalent than you think. It is not just weird or strange people or for that matter people who have been abused in childhood...it's lots of people. I mean 75% of nurses have apparently been abused in one form or another in their childhood, but this does not mean that we have to write off these people does it?


I understand the worry over children, but then most people into this scene do not inflict their views onto the child. They child may pick up on the fact that one of their parents always obeys the other, but if done properly it will not be noticed....and hey, within normal relationships lets look at domestic violence...with it affecting 1 in 3 women in the UK and 1 in 6 men...


I think when you look at other lifestyles, you should read and read and read until you cannot read any more, because there will always be justifications for why things are done and safety nets. You obviously haven't read the articles on Safe Sane and Consent within the BDSM which if used correctly should protect either parties.



I can drone on for hours on this subject...so forgive me if I have bored you, but just thought I would add to it, because its not cut and dry

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Hi Everyone,


Suzy. You seem to believe that people who choose BDSM lifestyles are not able to interract with the many "normal" institutions that have been set up outside their secret layer ! Do you believe that BDSM people go to the shop in full dress with the children and the mother whipping the father infront of the shop attendant? The same considerations would be taken by most BDSM entheusiasts - you don't go out of the way to upset or offend other people by your sexual actions - the sam way I wouldn't have sex with a girlfriend in the middle of my city's main streets.


You show a contempt for the BDSM community and not the way it is actually performed. You show a small understanding of tact, and believe that these people are far far different to yourself, when infact they are very close to yourself. You fail to produce valid arguments above - and thereforeeee the open minded community has struck back with insight. Come up with some real examples of situatoions that show your case more clearly instead of blanket statements about a community you seem to really know nothing about.

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I actually know lots about the BDSM 'community' and the D/s lifestyle and I know of people in it, and communicate with them.


Good luck to them. But let them leave their children out of it.


Anyone who thinks slavery is glam should go back to the 18th century or feudal England.

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Just because you don't like it doesn't mean you should flame abuse at it. People were like that to gay people once upon a time, no only few homophobes exist. You should learn to respect these people for the choices they make concerning their private lives.


What I do want to ask you is why you keep droping this statement about the children? Children in the bedroom is wrong, but thats a completely different matter. What have you seen happen that has concerned you this much??

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I have to agree with charmed on this one. And also I wanted to add that again you mention that

Anyone who thinks slavery is glam should go back to the 18th century or feudal England.


If you have never been a bdsm or D/s slave then you would realise that they don't think its glam and thats not why they do it!! It angers me beyond belief that people would think that it is done for "being glam", its not, its a deep rooted belief that you are made to be a sub or a slave..it has nothing whatsoever to do with being glam!...


PM me for more info and I will explain.

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