Yet another update on the workaholic guy

[bighair]

HI Friends -

 

I have been writing to y'all about Amos, this 45 year old divorced, father, I went out on a few dates with. Things had been progressing quite nicely till after V day. Amos started his own biz 2 years ago. Soon after V day, Amos and his partners bid on a large contract, got the job, rented an office space and they have been working extremely long hours.

 

I wrote to you guys about him calling in frequently, or taking days to return my call. A couple of weeks ago, he called me to apologize for being out of touch and that he had a lot going on w. this new contract and he had been with his son for over a week b/c the ex was out of town. I was pleased that he apologized.

 

We set up another date soon after that and he ended up cancelling because his childcare fell thru. I told you guys that I wrote him a nice email saying that he doesn't have time to date me right now and to call when things were more manageable. I let him know that I was going to pursue other dating prospects in a subtle way.

 

So, Amos called a couple of days later and said he was sorry about everything and that he "hope that I would be around" when things were more settled. I talked about how i was in an LTR w. a single dad for many years and I understand his situation and that I understand the stuff w. his new biz.

 

Amos said that he felt like he didn't have time for dating because of this project. I wasn't surprised to hear this but I was disappointed nonetheless. He said a couple of times that he "knew I couldn't sit around and wait for him" and that "if i wanted to move on," he couldn't stop me. Truthfully, I think he'd like me to wait but knows he can't ask that of me.

 

I tried to get an idea of when things might change for him in terms of work...He said things were going to be bad for 3months and he couldn't give a new relp that the time it required, and "knew that he couldn't ask me to wait."

 

I was worried that his feelings for me changed and so asked if that was the case. He said, "look, i'm not that kind of person where my feeling suddenly changed...he said his circumstances changed." He went to say that he is very attracted to me. I said , "ok, i don't know what to say if you're not ready to date." he said, quite strongly, that this was not about readiness but his current priorities. He promised this new client that certain things would be completed in a short period of time. I guess he had to make those promises to get the job.

 

So, I asked Amos what he wanted from me because he did call for some purpose. He said "i'd like to see you once in a while as friends at least." I said that I would find that frustrating because I wanted more; that i didn't want to feel pencilled in to his schedule. I told him that I wanted a boyfriend, some fun, romance and passion. I said I wasn't interested in friendship. He said that he thought my "logic was ridiculous." I didn't like that and told him I thought his was as well. Amos said that every relp is based on a solid friendship.

 

So, he asked me to call him when if I ever wanted to go out and I said it's really up to him to call when he has more time for me. I hate the way our conversation ended. I then wrote the following email:

 

I've been thinking a lot about you since we talked last night. I wanted to write you a short note because I didn't like the way our phone call ended. I want to tell you again that I do like you and I am sorry that you don't have the time, due to your present circumstances, to pursue this further. I hope you do get in touch with me when things have settled down for you. Perhaps, we can see where we each are in our lives at that time and take it from there.

 

Take good care of yourself,

 

I think this was the best decision for me. I'm so lonely right now and I'm already frustrated by the lack of contact w. Amos. I can't go on like this. Also, I didn't want to make this too easy on Amos. He needs some incentive to get into a good space to make some time for me. Amos needs to know that I won't be around waiting. Also, I am worried that if I agreed to the occasional friendly get together that I'd be too available and just settling for crumbs. And, I don't believe he wants friendship...it would not be friendship...it would be casual dating. I also worry that he still won't be available in 3 months.

 

So, friends, did I do the right thing?

 

Thanks.

[DN]

Yes, you did the right thing.

 

But there is another problem that I could see down the road if he were to find time for a relationship. What would he do if you got into a committed relationship to whatever degree and then his business suddenly required the time and attention he is giving it right now. If he can't find time for you now how would he find time for you under similar circumstances?

[Dako]

You certainly handled it well and although unpleasant, it may have saved you from being in second place to a workaholic. Being a motivated person is a virtue, but not at the expense of another person's dreams.

 

This sounds difficult, but it could have been much harder if you hadn't spoken up.

[bighair]

Hi Dako and DN -

 

Thanks for writing back.

 

Yes, I do feel better after telling Amos how I have been feeling. I couldn't handle having feelings for him, not knowing when he'd call and then trying to date others simultaneously.

 

DN - you raise a good point and i've thought about that as well. I can see this happening with him again after we are more established as a couple. I worry about that, and don't know what else to say about it at this point.

 

Dako - I agree that I would have felt worse if i didn't confront Amos and tell him how i was feeling.

 

Having said all that, I do hope I hear from Amos again. I did like him and he had many positive qualities.

[BeStrongBeHappy]

i think you did the right thing, and also were right to worry about the 'crumbs' thing... i just don't buy that he doesn't have ANY time to see you, especially if he likes you enough to not want to lose you to someone else...

 

plenty of people are busy and still manage to have very demanding jobs and relationships. and on the one hand he says he has no time to 'date', but he does have time to be 'friends..' huhhh? i don't get that either.

 

it really sounds like he is stalling you for some reason (waiting to see if another relationship he currently has does or doesn't work out, or if he can get back with an ex)? he could also be trying to set you up for a 'friends with benefits' situation, where he really does not have any obligation to you other than to hook up with you for sex now and again...

 

so i think you have reason to be cautious on lots of levels, until he shows himself to be really available and willing to date you, not put you in limbo and totally on the back burner for anything else in his life. people find time for what is important to them, and right now dating (or time with you) is just not important to him.

 

just be careful to make sure there is also not some other agenda going on here too, like another girlfriend etc. and you are right to not wait for him either, just go about your life, and if he decides to start treating you better, you might consider dating him.

[bighair]

HI, thanks for your response.

 

I do believe him when he says that he doesn't have time for a serious relp. I would agree that he's stalling but I think he's truthful about work. He isn't seeing anyone else. We met on Match and he told me (and, it's accurate) that he took his profile down. Amos said that he isn't looking around for anyone else and there is no one else. IN fact, he said that he took the profile down after he met me.

 

Others on this site have asked me if Amos is telling the truth about his marital status as well. I've been to his house and I believe he is who he says he is. AS far as the FWB theory, he's been a complete gentlemen w. me. I mean we've kissed...we haven't gone "all the way."

 

In any event, he doesn't have time for this. Period. The end. We'll just see what happens. Thanks for listening.

[annie24]

Yes, you did the right thing.

 

But there is another problem that I could see down the road if he were to find time for a relationship. What would he do if you got into a committed relationship to whatever degree and then his business suddenly required the time and attention he is giving it right now. If he can't find time for you now how would he find time for you under similar circumstances?

 

I agree with this advice. And I think you handled things as best as you could under the circumstances. Even if you did get into a relationship with this guy once this "super busy time" ceases, his business will come into problems/expansion/renovation/etc...... at some other point in the future. It's kind of like a natural ebb and flow of things. So would you have to take a backseat then too?

 

So, yeah, I think you did everything and said the right things, just this guy doesn't seem to be in a place where he is willing to make another person a priority. I guess that is fine for him now, but maybe he will be lonely later on in life if he doesn't ever change this.

 

good luck.

[Batya33]

What DN said is very wise. I do not buy at all that he is sincerely interested in you and cares about your feelings. He's backpedaling with the "every relationship has to be based on friendship first" - if he felt that way, why did he go out with you the first two or three times? It sounds like he wants to keep you on the hook with the offer of friendship in the event that he doesn't meet someone else (he may have profiles up elsewhere or perhaps his client has women to set him up with) - and if he has time for "friends" he has time to see you once every 10 days or so for a real date.

 

And, even if he is that busy, it doesn't excuse his rudeness and inconsistencies in not calling you back - how does he expect to be friends if he can't even return a phone call with any sense of timeliness?

 

I hope you take him off your radar and "next" him so you can meet people who aren't so selfish.

[Scout]

Bighair, I normally don't like to compare my situations to other poster's problems, as it can sound a bit smug. Please, please don't think that's my intention with the following...

 

But several months ago, my boyfriend had to work 45 days straight at his job because of a huge project they handed over to him. He also had band practice and gigs at least once or twice a week, plus other responsibilities.

 

He made time for me.

 

My point is...when someone truly doesn't want to miss out on an opportunity to get/stay involved with you, they will not take the chance of losing your interest (or to someone else!) by keeping you on hold. Trust me, I know, because I've also been in that situation with others in the past.

 

I know that you are very lonely right now, and that's probably the main reason you're even considering this as an ok situation for now. I think you should work on finding other ways to alleviate your loneliness so you don't settle for little, sporadic scraps of some guy's attention.

[bighair]

Batya -

 

I know that it's hard to believe that circumstances prevent someone from pursuing someone. We all have fallen into this belief that if someone really liked us, they'd make time for us. The fact of the matter is I think that's a really black and white, simplified view of life. It's just a repackaged version of the other most irritating statement on the planet:

 

he's just not that into you.

 

I think Amos was trying to be honest with me...he just doesn't have time for a relationship...and wanted to maintain a connection for some future time when he hopes to have more time. I think that's why he made the "friendship is a basis for relp" remark.

 

The thing of it is this is something to expect when dating after age 35. We don't have the free time and fewer responsibilites we had when we were in our 20s. I know plenty of single parents who feel like they don't have time for relationships between work and parenting responsibilities.

 

So, I do not hate Amos. I don't think he sucks. I think his life is out of balance. I don't believe he is out there trolling for other women on other sites. I know there are lots of you out there who want to make this about that. I don't want to think that every guy I meet is a (mod edit) who has an agenda. Sometimes, a cigar is a cigar.

 

Having said all that, this arrangement w. Amos is not going to work for me at least for the time being. I do like him and I hope he calls me when he is able to re-prioritize. So, I agree with the advice I've received here. I'm just not willing to say that Amos wants me to his FB or an FWB, that he has a million profiles up on other sites, that he has a gf...whatever it is. He doesn't have time. That's the biggest deal breaker of all.

 

Thanks again for listening.

[bighair]

Well, i did not say i was going to settle for sporadic scaps of Amos' attention. IN fact, I told him that what he was offering was not enough. So, yes, I'm lonely but I am not desperate.

 

But, here we go again with the "he's just not that into you" advice. You think putting me on hold somehow suggests that Amos sucks or "is not that into me." I think Amos would have subordinated any relp. to this business venture of his. I am flattered that Amos would like me to "wait" while the dust settles and was frustrated when I wouldn't agree to it.

 

So, let me be clear about this: i'm not accepting less from Amos, but I left the door open because I like him. He's a great dad, and he possesses some other qualities I like in a partner. I hope he does get it together and is able to give me what I need. I didn't like what he had to say but he was being honest with me.

 

Thanks.

[annie24]

it doesn't matter if he is "just not that into you" or if he is genuinely busy. either way, the result is the same.

 

I think "too busy" is just different for everyone. Everyone decides what they are "too busy" to do. For example, some people are insanely busy, but would never dream of missing their yoga class, but would be ok with miss their swimming class. We all have our priorities.

[sweetharmony]

it doesn't matter if he is "just not that into you" or if he is genuinely busy. either way, the result is the same.

 

I think "too busy" is just different for everyone. Everyone decides what they are "too busy" to do. For example, some people are insanely busy, but would never dream of missing their yoga class, but would be ok with miss their swimming class. We all have our priorities.

 

i agree. I also don't want to compare, but I agree with Scout on this one. If a guy truly doesn't want to lose you, he will make time for you. i've exprienced this from both ends.

[Batya33]

Bighair,

 

In my experience all of the men I have dated including my boyfriend are extremely busy. Most of my male friends, too. I have seen a man not date at all while in that mode but he would not post a profile on link removed, take out a woman a few times and then, even if he really liked her, not return her calls, blow her off a few times in a row and then tell her to wait for him for a few months but to be "friends." Rather, he would want you to feel cherished - or at the very least, treated with common courtesy -- and not want to impair the future relationship potential. And I doubt it would happen unless the man was physically out of town for that time period.

 

Don't kid yourself that he hopes that you wait for him - he is hoping that you'll still be available for a casual date every so often when he feels like making the time and he already knows you come back for more even when he cancels plans and doesn't bother to take two minutes or less to return your call. Most women I know don't put up with that.

 

I've been in Amos' shoes. I was too busy where my interest level wasn't high enough because I valued 6 hours of sleep over seeing someone and getting 4 hours of sleep, or I valued the one hour to go to the gym that week over meeting someone for a drink.

 

And, yes there were times I would work for 6 weeks straight every day over 12 hours a day and still I found time to see my boyfriend and time to quickly return a call if i had promised to call, so did he.

 

So, no the world isn't black and white but there's a point for all of us where our standards and values won't let us spend our time with someone who can't be bothered to return a call, who consistently cancels plans at the last minute and this where they barely know us. That's where my line is crossed. Not based on some simplistic view of anything but because I have the same demanding job and career and I managed to treat people I liked with common courtesy and manners. I had this sense of my self-worth without reading books or repeating "HJNTIY."

 

So, you can call my view "simplistic" - I call it having self-respect and judging a situation by my personal standards of manners and reliability -- obviously it is a case by case analysis but it's not that difficult if you hold tight to your personal standards of manners and the like. Sounds to me like you are making lots of excuses for him and calling others' views "simplistic" and just a repeat of "the Rules" and that is a shame and will only cause continued poor treatment because of what you're willing to put up with (in my humble opinion).

 

Look, if you're willing to put up with his unreliability and nonchalant cancellations, go right ahead. But to justify that by saying he is "busy" is kind of sad, particularly since he knows very well how to behave reliably with clients. Shouldn't you be as important at this stage - at least in deserving a phone call returned? Sounds simple to me - but not at all simplistic.

[bighair]

Oh for god's sake...I never said I was willing to put up with his BS. I think I said 100 times that his cancellations, and general unavailability was a problem. Does anybody read everything I write? I'm being straight with everyone here. Amos doesn't have time for me. Ok, fine. But, I still liked the guy. It's not working with him.

 

Sometimes, I feel like I'm speaking an entirely different language when I post here. I'm telling you guys my feelings. If you don't like what i have to say, then move on to the next post.

[Batya33]

You referred to my standards as black and white and simplistic and based on some mass marketed books. I was responding to that with my disagreement and noting that it seems like you're making excuses for him and justifying that by claiming that you are thinking outside the box and being more felxible. With all due respect, I don't buy it- I think you're being more flexible because you believe you don't deserve better treatment and you are attracted to him. You're saying "it's a problem" - his unreliability and blowing you off - but apparently, he has not promised that that behavior will change even if he does have time and you have decided that despite it being a problem, you are willing to continue seeing him after repeated cancellations/unreliability. That's a shame, if true.

[DN]

Moderator Note: You have both made your points and anything further between you will simply be argumentative. Please desist.

If anyone else has advice for bighair please feel free to comment.

[Altruist]

Bighair, if he was gennuinely interested in you he would somehow make time for you. Like one of the previous posters said, if you decide to persue the relationship, you might find yourself a very lonely woman when another one of his 'projects' comes up (pray that it won't be a bigger project).