Divorce and Dating

[Batya33]

I don't believe one going through separation and divorce - particularly where there was abuse and kids involved can fully trust their feelings of readiness because generally - with exceptions - there will be so much mixed in that would cloud the judgment of even the most together, stable person - that goes for all sorts of crisis situations, not just separation and divorce. It's the same reason many people decide not to get married within weeks of meeting - because they know that they want to wait until the smittendom state settles down a bit and they get to know the real person and they get to be back to normal somewhat and not on cloud nine. Similarly with divorce, most people I know are not themselves while going through it and their choices - not just in dating but in other areas of life are atypical of what they would usually do. That could work out just fine but it sure sounds unnecesarily risky to me, particularly if there are kids involved.

 

Just my humble opinion. I wish you the best of luck, but I don't think you're in a position to say whether your relationship will stand the test of time -- not saying it won't I am just saying that your relationship is not yet an example of the success of a relationship that started while one person was still married.

[DN]

Just my humble opinion. I wish you the best of luck, but I don't think you're in a position to say whether your relationship will stand the test of time -- not saying it won't I am just saying that your relationship is not yet an example of the success of a relationship that started while one person was still married.

Even if the relationship does not stand the test of time it does not mean that it failed because they broke the one year rule. Any number of reasons might be the cause.

 

As I have said, I can quote at least three relationships of relatives and friends that have stood the test of time for at least twenty years.

 

So, although we have proof that successful relationships can be formed despite breaking the rule there is no convincing evidence that breaking the rule is the cause of any failures - there is only supposition.

[Batya33]

All I meant was that just because a short term (let's say, less than a year) is successful doesn't mean it is an example of the success of dating while still married/newly divorced. The callers who called Dr. Joy, and several of my friends have ended relationships precisely because it was too soon for them or for the partner getting a divorce - of course relationships can end for all sorts of reasons.

[treefrogkate]

I don't think you're in a position to say whether your relationship will stand the test of time -- not saying it won't I am just saying that your relationship is not yet an example of the success of a relationship that started while one person was still married.

 

So what you're saying is that someone who knows one fact about my relationship (when it started) is in a better position to know whether the relationship is healthy and will last than I am?

 

The problem with the "one year rule" is that not everyone deals with stress or crisis in the same way. Some people can fall apart and need years and years to get over the pain. Other people have incredible moments of clarity when they are put under stress. After kicking my ex-husband out, I realized that I had married him because he was there, because I had already invested 4 years of my life in the relationship, because I was afraid of being alone and was convinced I would be because my self-esteem had already been eroded to that point, and being left behind by all of my friends who were getting married. And yes, there was nothing about love in that decision. Not exactly the best reasons to get married and I'm not proud of having based such a huge life decision on those reasons, of course, but it was the "crisis" of separating from him that allowed me to realize what I wanted and needed from a relationship, to know who I was (especially apart from a partner) better than I ever had before, and to realize that no matter how much you hope and want a person to change, it won't happen unless they want to change. A really important lesson to learn, and one that is usually, in my opinion, learned the hard way.

 

I won't be making that mistake again, you can count on that, "crisis" or not.

 

All I meant was that just because a short term (let's say, less than a year) is successful doesn't mean it is an example of the success of dating while still married/newly divorced.

 

... how do you measure the success of dating then? Are you having fun going out and doing stuff with a partner? Comfortable in going on dates and not afraid of putting yourself out there? I'd call that success, whether or not any relationship started after the divorce ends in marriage or splitting up.

 

In my example, we've been dating for well over a year. Does that milestone, too, have an emotional "checkpoint" associated with it? Does this checkpoint replace, overlap, or get obliterated by the "divorce is final" checkpoint?

 

And are there checkpoints after the "one year rule" that say you shouldn't get engaged for at least another 2 years after the divorce is final? Shouldn't get remarried for 5 years after the divorce is final? Shouldn't have kids until 10 years after the divorce is final? At what point do you stop letting the calendar and an arbitrary date (set not by you, but by some judge who doesn't know you or any of the hundred other people he's seen in divorce court this month) dictate your life and go with your feelings?

[Batya33]

Thanks for your response. All I meant by my comment is since you have not been together for very long and are not yet married, to me your relationship is not yet an example of a successful relationship that started on the rebound (my term, not yours). That's all.

 

With any rules or guidelines you can always argue the "slippery slope" where does it end, kind of thing. For example, you probably had a waiting period to get your marriage license (where I am from, there is one) and one could argue "where does it end - will the government make us wait to have children, too?" To answer your question, Dr. Joy's guideline applies to a marital relationship that ends in divorce or death and, no, there is no waiting period advised for starting a family, etc.

 

From my perspective I was always glad when I declined to date someone still married or newly divorced. Much of the time, they ended up being glad, too - once the year was over I would hear from them that although they truly thought they were ready they were most certainly not. I have seen many examples including in my own family of the disastrous effects of dating/getting engaged/married when separated/newly divorced particularly where there are children involved.

 

Your experience happens to be different. Had you asked my advice at the time I would have strongly advised you to wait since to me, if a relationship is going to be healthy and successful, waiting a year or so is not going to make a real difference and might make a very positive difference. But, I would never (!) give someone unsolicited advice so that when my friends have dated when separated/newly divorced or date people who are, I am supportive and give no input unless asked. I also never say "I told you so" when it falls apart (more often than not).

 

As I've said several times before, I wish you the best in your relationship - that has been my consistent message to you throughout this thread and the similar thread - I repeat it because the tone of your post suggested that I was somehow criticizing your relationship specifically. I wasn't - just noting that it is still new and thereforeeee not yet an example of a success in dating/getting involved while still married.

[DN]

I also never say "I told you so" when it falls apart (more often than not).

 

This is a wise decision because not only would it be incredibly insensitive it may also be inaccurate since the reason for the break-up may have nothing to do with the date they got together.

[Batya33]

This is a wise decision because not only would it be incredibly insensitive it may also be inaccurate since the reason for the break-up may have nothing to do with the date they got together.

 

Oh, I was referring to when it is because the person was not ready to date. Obviously break ups happen for many reasons. The not saying "I told you so" is based on my belief that it is better to be close than to be right, almost all of the time.

[dada]

That's very good advice. Be comfortable in your own skin first.

 

I've been there...

[treefrogkate]

As I've said several times before, I wish you the best in your relationship - that has been my consistent message to you throughout this thread and the similar thread - I repeat it because the tone of your post suggested that I was somehow criticizing your relationship specifically. I wasn't - just noting that it is still new and thereforeeee not yet an example of a success in dating/getting involved while still married.

 

No, not suggesting you're criticizing me personally. I'm just using myself as an example (it's convenient).

 

My relationship may be new (if you can call over a year new), but came after a period of clarity of thinking I'd never had before any other relationship. I learned an enormous number of things about myself and relationships through the implosion of my marriage. I can't think that I'm the only one.

 

I'm not saying you're completely wrong; I'm just saying that all advice, from people on here, from people who write self-help books, from people with radio shows, etc., should always be taken with a grain of salt. If you decide a particular piece of advice is useful, then adapt that to your situation. But I'm a firm believer that ultimately you should follow your own feelings and instincts because you know yourself best, and that no one solution will work for every person.

[Batya33]

Thanks for your response. I understand that you felt you had clarity at that time in your life -- and I respect that you felt that way. In my opinion it is highly unusual to have clarity about entering a brand new relationship while one is still married (even if separated) and particularly the type of marriage you endured (again, so very sorry you had to endure that!). Perhaps you are the exception - time will tell.

 

For me, I have found I don't know myself very well in the middle of a crisis - I have done and said things impulsively, made poor decisions, even though the adrenaline was going and I thought I was clear headed. I learned differently when the dust cleared. But this is just me and many people I know. I am sure there are exceptions. I agree that rules, guidelines need to be taken with a grain of salt - including the waiting period I suggested. However, my view is that the grain of salt should come from an objective third party (like a counselor or a close friend who can be objective) not from one's self when in the middle of a crisis situation.

 

I'm reminded of a very close friend of mine who, after his wife died said that he definitely didn't want to marry again, ever, because of the agony of watching her die. He believed he knew that very clearly.

 

Two years later, he is ready to get engaged to his girlfriend. I am not doubting his sincerity two years ago, or now but it is obvious that his clarity two years ago was based on a situation where his whole world was turned upside down. He needed to go through the process of grieving (just like many divorced people) and learn from the crisis and then, after time had passed (about 1.5 years), he was ready to share himself again with what he had learned but without being smack in the middle of the crisis.

 

I would not want to date someone who was going through a crisis like that because even if he was completely sincere I would want to get to know him only after the dust settled since I couldn't be sure I was knowing the real him or that his reactions were to me as opposed to the crisis.

 

Many people go through crises during a relationship but hopefully by then there is a foundation of trust and a strong bond, as well as knowing what the person is like outside of that crisis situation. Another comment Dr. Joy shares is that "need is a great short term basis for a relationship" - once the need is over, so is the relationship. People going through major crises often are unusually vulnerable and needy and the people they reach for might not be right for them otherwise but fill that need for stability during the whirlwind. I would not want to be that person.

 

Just my humble opinion (and again, not referring to your relationship in particular!)