The "old enough to be your father" argument

[the empty drawer]

Personally I have never understood the point behind the "old enough to be your father" argument, what is the point of it?

 

Just why is it that should a woman be dating someone who is (just to put a number on it for the sake of this thread) at least 15 years her senior and a man would anyone bring up that, in some twisted way of thinking, the man is "old enough" to be her father...seriously, why?

 

I mean...no one goes around saying "Hey, the guy you are dating is your same age, your father is old enough to be his father!", but that is actually not a far off scenario since men can just deposit their sperm and go on never knowing what little growths they have left behind. But I have never heard this said. And never mind that I have never heard a similar "old enough to be your mother" argument towards a man being with a lady his senior.

 

So, does anyone know if there is a history or origin of the "old enough to be your father" argument? If I lived in Spain would I hear that argument being said in Spanish, or how about if I lived in Australia? Is it just a thing in The States or do others worldwide have to suffer this strange argument against a woman being with a man 15 (or so) years her senior?

 

I have been curious about this since I was in Junior High School because the argument never made sense to me. Hope no one minds me bringing up this query.

[Daddy Bear]

Wow, I was thinking about posting an identical thread. We must have read the same post earlier.

 

"He's old enough to be your father!"

 

Yeah, but he ISN'T.

[the empty drawer]

I was actually reading through this forum the past few days, since its really slow moving that was easy to do, and saw that brought up a couple of times. Not too often, but I still fail to see how saying that actually does anything beneficial for anyone.

 

But yeah maybe we did read the same recent post

[CarnelianButterfly]

I think it is only an issue if one of the people is being taken advantage of, be they older or younger, because the old and the young can victim to money grubbers or sex fiends.

 

If its 2 adults, both enjoying each other and life together, then its no one else's business how old either party is. People feel that they have the right to comment and be critical, but they also need to realize the people they are harassing have the right to ignore them.

[annie24]

I don't know, it makes a lot of sense to me. I don't think that having an age gap doesn't mean that your relationship CAN'T work. My parents had an age gap. I know lots of people in happy age gap relationships. It can be an obstacle though. I think that the "cliche - old enough to be your father" means is that the guy has more in common with your parents than he does you! ie, they are of the same generation, grew up watching the same shows, listening to the same music, etc.....

 

As you get older, the age gap becomes less important. For example, a 40 and 60 year old may get along really well. But say that a 20 year old was dating a 40 year old. While one person is in college and partying in the dorms, the 40 year old may have a mortgage, a real job, parents in a nursing home, etc...... I think it isn't so much the "age gap" as the "life stage" which can make or break compatibility.

[Daddy Bear]

That's an interesting take on it, Annie, but I still don't think it quite rises to the level of aphorism. He may have TV and music in common with her parents, but he has a mutual love in common with her - and which is more relevant?

[the empty drawer]

CarnelianButterfly, so that argument implies a possible abusive situation you say? That can apply to many factors way beyond age though, but I guess some people could think unequal in age means unequal in the relationship...I dunno!

 

annie24, I can see a little bit of what you mean, that your boyfriend might have more in common with your parents than with you. But as long as the person you're dating was not originally one of your parent's friends (which could lead to conflict I believe) its still just a generalization.

 

And generalizations can be very wrong when taken to the individual level. I've seen several good past posts about the so-called "stage of life" a person is in. That may correlate to age but age is not an absolute factor in determining that.

[annie24]

of course, it is a generalization..... I have heard though, women say "I'm old enough to be your mother!" on TV, when the handsome pool boy is making a move on them, lol.

 

I think having things in common really helps a relationship progress. Let's go back to my 20-year old example. I think a man who is 40 and is working, has his own house, etc... would be more compatible with a woman who is 20 years old, has a steady job, and lives on her own. Probably more compatible than he would be with a 20 year old who goes to college, is living in the dorms, and parties every night and doesn't have a job.

 

Of course, this is a hypothetical example, not a real life situation.

 

Did you ever watch "When harry met sally?" When Harry is dating a much younger woman and complaining about it to a friend. He asks her where she was when Kennedy was shot. And she answers, "Ted Kennedy was shot!?!" I think that example was just illustrating that they grew up in different times.

[annie24]

That's an interesting take on it, Annie, but I still don't think it quite rises to the level of aphorism. He may have TV and music in common with her parents, but he has a mutual love in common with her - and which is more relevant?

 

I am just pointing out an example where the "generational thing" can have an adverse effect in the relationship. I am not anti-age gaps at all. My existence on this planet is due to an age gap relationship

[the empty drawer]

I'm just not lucky enough to have heard the "old enough to be your mother" thing anywhere. But I'm glad to hear it has been done.

 

Only watched When Harry Meet Sally once, so I'm no expert on it. Although you do have a point if there are major knowledge and maturity differences then thats a problem. Although how that all connects to saying someone is "old enough to be your father" is still a stretch for me to think in.

 

Maybe its that parents are supposed to be the mature one and responsible one when dealing with their child. Hmm. And that since people tend to (oh no generalization coming!) rebel and pull away from their parents as they grow up and leave the nest, so to speak, its considered odd to then "go after" someone who is your parents cohort?

 

 

Or my train of thought could just be crazy trying to "get" the argument.

[BeStrongBeHappy]

It could have something to do with the deeply engrained attitudes against incest and pedophilia too... that there is something creepy about a much older guy going after a young girl in a 'daddy/daughter' kind of relationship. or much older woman seeking young guy.

 

so lots of people look at huge age gap relationships like the idea of an older lecher type wanting a young girl, or a young girl wanting a daddy... not that some aren't successful, but as a socieity, people tend to be suspicious of the motives in huge age gaps...

 

so to some people, a much older guy/woman seeking a much younger girl/boy weirds people out and hence the 'old enough to be your father/mother' thing...

[the empty drawer]

Society has something against incest and pedophilia? (joking, not serious!! don't bite me)

 

Thats a connection I had not made BeStrongBeHappy, although that seems to depend on the elder person doing the pursuing, but I don't see how younger woman dating a older man equates to her looking for a father figure. After all parents and their children are not on equal levels but in a romantic relationship the two are supposed to be equal, IMHO.

[itsallgrand]

Shouldn't reply probably, because even the title raised my blood pressure, but here's an argument for ya: C'mon! Like you don't 'get' how a man dating a woman who is young enough to be have been spawned by him is worthy of notice.

 

That doesn't make it ok for random passers-by to go forcing their opinions down others necks.

It doesn't mean all age-gap relationships are wrong (or even that the person saying the old line thinking it is wrong).

 

But it makes sense to take notice, on some level.

 

And it does go both ways, often. But men - c'mon, again! - like we don't see more open flagrant of examples of men chasing after much younger women.

It is more common for whatever reason(that's a book in itself), and more visible.

 

And men have this habit of raping, oppressing, and misusing authority over women/girls from history to right this second.

Again, women do too....but for men is more common, has been more socially sanctioned and protected, on and on and on.

And young women have this habit of thinking they know all, see all, and are in control - even when their life experience is but a speck.

 

I generalize. Aren't you?

 

Men dating women who could be their daughter is most relevent (and only relevent, in my ever-so-not-humble opinion) when women are in their childbearing-still-somewhat-connected-to-their-original-family years.

 

Why? 'Cause who wants the kiddos confused about who is mamma and who is sister and who is cousin and who is daughter?

Just has to do with family. And what you are providing as a message to little people who need adults to show them how the world works around them.

 

Different ways work, absolutely! , but it makes sense to notice. Things can get confusing. Who is familial? Who is mate material? How do we all relate to each other? Can family mate with each other - accross what lines?

 

People have multiple roles in this life. One has to do with family - their own and setting a standard for others. Including kids.

The kind of world and culture - what will it be?

 

Providing a safe place for kids (before puberty and during and afterwards) to find strong figures and adults to look to for direction and caring that is non-sexual - it's important. As important as opening up the lot of socially acceptable mates to all.

 

When all those lines gets blurred, there is often abuse.

 

And besides all that........Who wants to sleep with someone who could be their father? A. People who haven't had a father. (figuratively or literally)

If that role has been filled, good as gravy, it might just work and be ok.

For the others? Vulnerability and questionable city there, baby.

 

Hack away. You like older men right? Your business, anyways, but you asked for opinions.

 

Blood pressure dropping.

[the empty drawer]

A rant is all good to me itsallgrand.

 

And why I asked is that when I have heard the "old enough to be your father" argument it was said just as that.

No further explanation given. Thats why I don't feel like I get it, its never been explained to me.

 

And I would rather assume I don't understand something than assume I do understand it. Hope that makes sense.

 

Personally, since you kinda asked, I've dated men both older and younger than me, though you can guess being age 22 the younger was not anything significant while the older on the other hand some people might call significant.

 

Thanks for the opinion, I did ask afterall

[mintblossom]

do you understand the "old enough to be your grandfather" argument? a la anna nicole smith?

 

well, take that and apply it to the "old enough to be your father" argument.

 

wouldn't it bother your parents if your brought home a man who was your dad's age or older?

[itsallgrand]

Hey, thank you for your grace, empty drawer.

 

Nice to meet you, BTW.

 

Does it make some sense 'from the other side of the fence' now? Kinda? Not that I am strongly anti-age-gap or anything, but I do have my reservations (especially considering girls not yet outta their teens).

 

The mother instinct comes up full force.

 

Anna Nicole was old enough to know what she was doing. lol. They were hilarious, I thought, in their own way.

[the empty drawer]

do you understand the "old enough to be your grandfather" argument? a la anna nicole smith?

 

well, take that and apply it to the "old enough to be your father" argument.

 

wouldn't it bother your parents if your brought home a man who was your dad's age or older?

My parents had me pretty late in their life so that would mean I brought home someone who is just shy of retiring. Both of my parents are about to turn age 60 soon. So it would be much different if they had me in their 20s rather than just shy of their 40s. Although I would expect them to accept the person I choose despite his age, or anything else about him. If I ever meet a 60+ year old that turns me on I'll tell you personally!

 

I had to google the Anna Nicole Smith thing to know what you meant. So 89 and 26, thanks wikipedia. Definitely odd, but it to the whole argument factor. How does saying someone is old enough to your father/grandfather do anyone any good I don't entirely get. So yeah itsallgrand's point of knowing whom can be a mate according to value's of your family is a good point, but in today's world once you are a certain age only you can decide whom you want. And damn the consequences.

[annie24]

How does saying someone is old enough to your father/grandfather do anyone any good I don't entirely get.

 

Well, to spell it out for you..... it makes people and family wonder if it is really "love" or there are ulterior motives at work. Did a 26 year old buxom blonde really LOVE her 90 something husband, or did she just marry him for the money? Did he really LOVE her, or did he just want a companion in his last years of life? But of course, it is their business, but I can certainly see how inheritance issues can come into play. it brings out the worst in people. Hence the legal battle that is STILL being fought over Anna Nicole's inheritance, even though she has passed.

 

Ok, let's just say for a moment here that a 20 something falls in love with a man who is 50. Say that they are active and happy together. However, what about in 30 years? She will be 50 and still in the prime of her life, and he will be 80, and maybe in physically bad shape. Chances are high that he will die before her, and she needs to decide if she is ok with that. And if they have children, he will only be healthy enough for so long to chase the kids around. And what if he has severe medical expenses at the same time that their kids are entering college? The wife might end up being more of a "nurse" than a "partner."

 

It is these kind of practical concerns that make people say, "He is old enough to be your grandfather!" Seriously, if your 22 year old friend told you that her new bf was 70, wouldn't you raise your eyebrows a bit?

[CarnelianButterfly]

And if they have children, he will only be healthy enough for so long to chase the kids around. And what if he has severe medical expenses at the same time that their kids are entering college? The wife might end up being more of a "nurse" than a "partner."

The children assumption isn't going to apply in all cases. I happen to know a couple that has no interest in children. They are together for the joy of being together. All relationships don't involve reproduction, nor do all people want to have children.

 

People always pull the what if he/she is 80?

How do you decide who you love? How can you really control that emotion? If its denied and they go onto a younger partner, is that really fair to the 2nd person, because they aren't the love of their partner's life they are 2nd choice?

[annie24]

The children assumption isn't going to apply in all cases. I happen to know a couple that has no interest in children. They are together for the joy of being together. All relationships don't involve reproduction, nor do all people want to have children.

 

People always pull the what if he/she is 80?

How do you decide who you love? How can you really control that emotion? If its denied and they go onto a younger partner, is that really fair to the 2nd person, because they aren't the love of their partner's life they are 2nd choice?

 

Those are all good points. I wasn't meaning to say that the age gap would be a deal breaker. Just some things to think about and may require extra planning. If the couple doesn't want kids, then it isn't a problem at all! And just as easily, two 25 year olds can get together, get married, and then one is in a horrible car accident and becomes paralyzed. Then, the other spouse must be the "nurse." It's just more likely to have to be "nurse" if there is a big age gap.

 

Just things to consider when getting into a relationship, by no means, "dealbreakers" if they are not for that person.

[the empty drawer]

Questioning the validity of the relationship, the motives behind each person involved, the mental health of the two people, pointing out that the age gap is beyond a "normal" age gap, trying to spare a presumed eventual break-up due to assumed differences of the two people involved...etc.

 

So its like people would say this argument to try and possibly help the person in a "old enough to be your father" relationship see real or assumed problems. Alright I can see why people would say that, I hope. I appreciate the help in assisting me to understand this argument.

 

Although it seems like in the end its not the age that is the "problem", just other differences which are presumed to or known to exist, the cause of which may be the age difference, that are actually why people would say that.

 

Thats my understanding of it now.