Please...anyone...I'm in BIG trouble....

[facade]

...and if I don't get my act together fast, I risk losing the most wonderful man I've ever had the privelege of not only knowing, but being loved by. And the worst part is...I really can't blame him!

 

So here's the deal... I have been dating a wonderful man for a year and a month, now and while the relationship has been rocky at times (due to communication or lack thereof), it's been wonderful....but I believe lately I've been sabotaging it and I don't know how to stop.

 

I met my boyfriend on myspace and we dated long distance for half a year, seeing him usually 3 days every week. I eventually moved my children and I to the area he lives, which was for more reasons than just the fact he was here (my kids wanted to change schools and we school shopped all summer, until we found the one they're currently in). Before we actually moved here, I had spoken at great length and in great detail with my boyfriend about the move and he asked me (not in these exact words) if I was going to be moving in with him when we moved. At first I was opposed to the idea and then after more discussion in later conversations, came around to liking the idea and came here for a visit, which consisted of looking at houses (in his price range to buy) in the town I wanted to live in. My understanding was that we were looking for a house to buy for all of us to move into. This seemed to be a reasonable perception at the time, since we both knew that if I wasn't going to be moving in with him, that I would opt to rent, not buy...there was never any question or doubt about that...he knew it. At the end of that day, he had said something which left me to believe that he wasn't really planning on my kids and I moving in with him, so I asked him, straight forward, if we were supposed to be planning on moving in with him or on our own. He replied that we should plan on moving on our own. Well, this didn't make any sense to me at all, as we had just spent the entire day and the last day of my visit looking at homes in his price range to buy, as opposed to potential rentals for my kids and I, and I told him so by asking, "well, why did we just spend the day looking at houses for you to buy, then, when I should have been looking for a rental?" As you can imagine, that escalated into a rather large argument/problem, as I could not understand his reasoning or perception of it all, in contrast to my own experience and what appeared to me to be obvious actions on his part.

 

Fast forward to a month ago, boyfriend and I were discussing promise rings and that I would like to have one, if he still wanted to get me one (he offered one 4 months into our relationship and I, not understanding the meaning of one at the time, declined). He said he still wanted to get me one, provided I didn't misunderstand the meaning of one. We discussed and both understood what the meaning was behind a promise ring and it was settled, then...he was going to get one. Since that time, nothing has been mentioned about it, nor has he done anything about it.

 

Now, more recently, we have been talking about and even actively looking for a house to buy for us to move into, and ever since that serious talk and him telling me to actually look for a house, I've been a basket case! I have nit picked just about every small thing imaginable and frustrated him to the point he walked out of my house tonight (I got snippy over a game, of all things!) Moving forward with our relationship is something I absolutely want, so this change in my behavior makes no sense. What I do know, though, is that I am full of skepticism that it just won't happen and I have found myself teetering on feelings of total bliss and totally wanting to run away from the relationship! I feel that after what happened over the summer and firmly believing that I did not misunderstand what he was saying about us moving in together then, then feeling he did a total 180 on me back then, and the lack of follow-through with the promise ring or appearance that it's even important has me feeling edgy over the bigger commitment of moving in together. Add to that the fact that I thought he meant 2-3 months, when we first started discussing moving in together this time and only a few days ago he said his timeframe is more like 5-6 months, I'm afraid I'm unconsciously sabotaging the relationship. That I am just so very much on edge and not trusting him on this, that he's not going to flip that 180 on me, that I'm literally "not caring" about the ramifications of lashing out at him. But I DO care! I don't want to lose him, and I am totally mortified that I am making him feel so lousy, but I also want to feel secure and be able to trust in him that he's going to follow through on what he commits to.

 

I don't know how to stop this viscious cycle. It appears that the issue over the summer is still not quite resolved and put to rest, because that whole situation caught me so off guard and I don't really ever think he totally got that what he told me and the message he sent by looking at houses with me to buy, left me quite insecure about these kinds of things. So it goes on and on...no promise ring and no mention of it, I wonder how he can follow through with moving in together if he can't even follow through on the promise ring, I get edgy and snippy and lash out at him which in turn instills doubt in him whether moving forward with the relationship is even what he wants. He drags his feet further and I become more uptight, which leads to more fighting over the most stupid things you could ever imagine and they're my fault. I'm literally picking fights with him and ruining everything we have had up to this point. Where does it end and where do I begin? Is there even any hope? I can't keep making him miserable, nor can I continue to feel insecure because he's just not following through.

 

 

[Daligal83]

I think you need to have a conversation with him. It seems that you understand why your behavior has changed, so explain it to him. Make sure you approach it in a way that doesn't make him feel attacked for his behaviors, so focus on how you are feeling instead.

 

I have to wonder though, are you sure you want to get yourself and your kids this serious with a man who can't follow through? It seems risky to want to do that when he doesn't keep his word or says he'll do something but keeps delaying it. This could probably get worse and worse as time goes on. Just something to think about.

[Bethany]

ALthough I don't have much time now, I just wanted to say that this all seems to have started from assumptions. You assumed you were on the same page, you assumed he knew what you were thinking, he assumed that he knew where you stood. etc, etc, and then when the truth came out, it's thrown you into confusion so which you now bear resentment.

 

If you want to end this cycle..Do everything opposite of what you are doing now. Don't blame him for not knowing what is/ was on your mind, understand that you didnt know what was on his mind eithe because you assumed and didnt ask, just like he did.

 

He is not a mind reader, and neither are you. You are both as guilty as each other in not comminicating and just assuming that the other knew what was on your minds. Be clear with your intentions, ask questions, find out how he feels, express how you feel before things get out of hand.

 

Put this in the past now... the friendship ring?..once again you are assuming that he knows how important it is to you and how annoyed that he hasn't bought you one yet, when in reality he doesn't have a clue so who cares really? In time you could have a wedding band which is far more important. Let go of the resentment. You love him, accept that he is not perfect and can't read your mind nor you his.

 

Be aware next time and work on these issues before moving with him and things can and will get better.

[Batya33]

Given how wishy washy he seems and how it seems that your communication with him is not exactly on target I would not move in with him so that your kids aren't subjected to the transition of moving in, to living with their mom and a man who is not committed to her or their father, and who does not seem clear on the future. Why not continue to date him (but don't let him be involved with your kids - they should not get attached to this man given his behavior and the issues between you).

[facade]

Thank you all for replying. I wanted to get into this further with Bethany, because I'm confused about what assumptions you feel are being made. I am not challenging or ruling out that assumptions are being made, I just don't quite see it in any of these three things...not really on his part or mine, other than potentially the timeframe of us moving in together now, which we never really got into intil a few days ago, but everything else, I believe we discussed and regarding the promise ring...we did discuss that again 2 weeks ago and he is well aware that it is important to me, unless he wasn't listening. Could you spend some time, when you get time, going into more details ...this could be exactly what it is that I'm missing and not understanding.

[RayKay]

I think it is a bit weird about all the pressure around the promise ring personally....I just feel those are more for the very young whom want to signal they regard the other as important but are not at an age where marriage is a good idea yet!

 

Anyway....I think you are both making a lot of expectations of the other, and where things are going without really talking to one another to find out where they are going. I think moving your kids in with him after 6 months would of been a mistake honestly...kids are a lot more vulnerable and you should be darned sure you two are in it for the long haul and he is a suitable partner and parent first for them. 6 months in...it is the honeymoon stage still...and not a good idea to make decisions affecting children then.

 

I honestly get the impression you are looking for him to PROVE his love to you, via the promise ring, buying house to move into, and so on. Maybe as you do not believe it is there?

 

I suggest you slow it down, date, take the time to really know one another rather than try and make one another fit into your goals and dreams, and talk about your future goals and plans calmly. My guess for example is what you want to know is if this is going towards marriage...and you are talking about promise rings as you do not want to scare him off...which is not going to get you the answers you want and you will be even more confused and upset.

[Wotgorilla]

I'm so sorry you're going through this. All I can say is what was said above, you guys need to have a serious sit down where you just talk and define what each person wants and expects in a relationship. Communication is VITAL!

 

I found myself in a similar situation with my abusive and critical ex (whom I left 2 1/2 weeks ago). After we got back together after a 4 month break, it was going well enough to the point where she brought up the idea of me moving into her apartment by year's end. She wanted me to move in ASAP, she said, and made it seem that nothing would make her happier than if we lived together. I left to visit my parents in Florida over Thanksgiving thinking we'd be living together by New Years. In fact, we had talked about and agreed on that timetable, and I had begun to throw out things and pack. Over the break, while I was out of town, she throws a monkey wrench into the whole works by telling me out of nowhere that "her parents wouldn't approve" if we moved in together and that we should drop the whole idea. I was devastated. I couldn't believe it. This was her idea? Why tell me one thing and then change her mind? I tried to be understanding, and I said that she should have told me right away that although it was her desire for me to move in, it may not be a good idea since her parents would object. She apologized for being wishy washy, and we moved past the argument. We would need to be married to live together in order for her parents to approve, which seemed to me that she was interested in getting married.

 

Almost the next day, she announces that she wants us to buy a house and live together since she couldn't stand her apartment any longer. I thought this was a good idea also as I wanted to move out of my own apartment and we started looking at listings and calling agents. She was excited about the idea and so was I, thinking we were heading in the right direction. For several days I suggested we look at houses just to get an idea of what we like. She ignored the subject for weeks, which was her habit, if she didn't want to talk about it, nothing in heaven or on earth was going to make her do so.

 

The weekend before I finally left her (for numerous other reasons as well) she again brings up the "my parents wouldn't approve" argument as to why we haven't looked at houses together or discussed that idea. You see the cycle she put me through: bring something up, get my hopes up, then ignore it. This time, I was the one that dropped it, saying we should forget the whole thing as I thought the constant back and forth wasn't fair to me.

 

Forgive the long story, but I just hate to see people go through situations like this. Everyone deserves a fair shake. I found myself getting testy and annoyed as well, until I realized she was poison to me and ended it. You are entitled to know what the real story is. Have a serious, calm talk. I wish you luck!

[SummerGirl38]

Forgive me, but I call them like I see them, it's just me, so here's my opinion....

 

First off, something that bothers me about your post is the fact that you are not mentioning how your kids are adjusting to this new guy, new place, new school, etc., etc.

 

I know first hand that kids can make or break a relationship when Mom or Dad are involved with someone other than their natural parent.

 

How does he treat your kids? Does he play with them ?, Talk to them?. Or is it more of just a him and you type situation as far as he's concerned, meaning theres just him and you in this relationship. I think this needs to be told before I can give you my full assumption of what is going on.

 

What I am getting at here is this guy could have said "WHOAAA" to himself once he was faced with the reality of a ready made family and now he is back stepping trying to slow things down a bit. So I think it is important to know how he interacts with them.

 

As far as this promise ring goes... Isn't it another word for engagement ring?

I too am a bit confused on its meaning, but I am basically thinking it means

"I love you and one day, we'll get married".

 

If I'm right and this is what you thought as well, then from your post you declined it, which might of scared him a bit as to what your commitment was to the relationship.

 

See you have me confused and I think that is because you are confused yourself. You say you want the relationship to move forward, but at the same time you declined an engagement ring (If that's what you thought it was) but now you are upset because he hasn't given it to you yet.

 

This is how it works to me.....

1. You meet and grow to like each other.

2. You date, fall in love and talk about the next step to your relationship.

3. You decide you want to spend the rest of your lives together and talk about getting married one day.

4. You live together and see how it goes, "playing house"

5. You take the plunge and live happily ever after.

 

Again, what I am getting at here is if you declined on step three (getting an engagement ring). How does he know you are committed? He might of said Wow, if she doesn't know if she wants to spend the rest of her life with me, maybe we should slow down a bit then.

 

And by the way, how do you know he hasn't already bought it and is waiting for the right moment, or maybe it's a big one and he's still making payments on it. You don't, you are "assuming" he hasn't or isn't going to do it.

 

Honey, from what I can see is "you" need to slow down and decide what "you" want, Where is the fire? Especially you, because you have kids you are dragging behind you.

 

I see you as confused and I don't even know you, how do you think the guy who does know you sees it?

 

Let me let you in on a little secret of mine. I too, was waiting on that ring.

We were engaged 22 years ago and because of our age and a few other things I ended up giving the ring back and we went on with our lives.

 

Now we are back together, nine months into it and I want to do it all over again now that we're grown up.

 

I thought maybe Christmas I would get it, but NOPE. Then I thought, maybe my birthday, but NOPE. Valentines came and went and still no GD ring. So I finally decided to myself that "if" he wants to do it, he will. When he wants to do it, he will.

 

I have posted your same questions on this very forum and the replies I got made me see things a little differently.

 

Why rush him? Why do I want to marry a guy who may or may not be ready for it?

 

The answer is I don't want to marry him if he's not ready. It would be just another failed marriage for both of us and I don't think another divorce fits into my schedule any time soon.

 

So yes, deep down I want it to happen, but if it doesn't, maybe that's a sign too and a lucky break on my part. Now, I am just content that he loves me.

 

My best advice to you would be to understand what "you" want first, then ask him where you are going. Lay your cards out on the table and see what he deals you.

 

Good luck!

[facade]

I think it is a bit weird about all the pressure around the promise ring personally....I just feel those are more for the very young whom want to signal they regard the other as important but are not at an age where marriage is a good idea yet!

 

That's funny that you mention that because I didn't even really know what a promise ring was, when he offered it and it actually scared me to death that he asked me if I wanted one. Over time, he'd commented about a casual ring I would wear on my "wedding ring" finger, that it "wasn't his", and I suppose that is where it came from. It seemed important to him, it became important to me and then...nothing. I don't really think the pressure is about the ring so much as it is feeling I'm being pushed, then pulled, then pushed, then pulled.

 

Anyway....I think you are both making a lot of expectations of the other, and where things are going without really talking to one another to find out where they are going. I think moving your kids in with him after 6 months would of been a mistake honestly...kids are a lot more vulnerable and you should be darned sure you two are in it for the long haul and he is a suitable partner and parent first for them. 6 months in...it is the honeymoon stage still...and not a good idea to make decisions affecting children then.

 

I agree...and I'm glad that we didn't make that move then, and don't see us being ready for it even now, because I am 100% positive that we would have failed and it would have left his and my kids in another mess of a split family (of sorts).

 

I honestly get the impression you are looking for him to PROVE his love to you, via the promise ring, buying house to move into, and so on. Maybe as you do not believe it is there?

 

That could be true...I'm not ruling it out. But I would be fine with it had he not offered and committed to it, so I tend to believe that isn't the case...all of these things have been his idea...not mine...not by any stretch. In fact, 2 MONTHS...yes, only 2 MONTHS into our relationship, he was telling me he wanted me to move to where he lived and wanted to discuss a prenuptial! Why on earth would you need to discuss a prenuptial only 2 months into a relationship, when the word marriage had NEVER been mentioned prior to that and we weren't even living in the same town? Everything that has equated to "serious talk" about our future has been started by him up until only very recently.

 

Dantracht...I'm really sorry you went through all of that. You describe how I feel. It isn't so much that I want what I want and I want it now and anything less will not suffice or else he doesn't love me...it's a matter of he makes commitments and plans and I get all on board with them and then it's like I suddenly wake up and dreamt it all, because now he's either not doing it, has changed his mind or makes me feel like that was not ever even an option.

 

First off, something that bothers me about your post is the fact that you are not mentioning how your kids are adjusting to this new guy, new place, new school, etc., etc.

 

I know first hand that kids can make or break a relationship when Mom or Dad are involved with someone other than their natural parent.

 

How does he treat your kids? Does he play with them ?, Talk to them?. Or is it more of just a him and you type situation as far as he's concerned, meaning theres just him and you in this relationship. I think this needs to be told before I can give you my full assumption of what is going on.

 

What I am getting at here is this guy could have said "WHOAAA" to himself once he was faced with the reality of a ready made family and now he is back stepping trying to slow things down a bit. So I think it is important to know how he interacts with them.

 

Summer...yes, I can understand why that would bother you. I don't mention it because there are no issues there, whatsoever. My kids actually chose their school, amongst many, including some that were nowhere near here...this is the one they wanted and they love it. They also love my bf. He is absolutely wonderful with them, beyond what I ever thought a non-bio partner could be. He never, ever crosses the line in regards to them, is attentive, plays with them and they all get along wonderfully. He has kids, too, and my relationship with them, too, is beyond what I thought was possible for someone to feel about another's kids. We just "mesh" in that area, somehow.

 

In spite of this, it's still very possible that he may have stopped and said "whoaaa" simply because he might have gotten too caught up in "the moment" and then realized...oops, I went too far. I don't really know.

 

As far as this promise ring goes... Isn't it another word for engagement ring?

I too am a bit confused on its meaning, but I am basically thinking it means

"I love you and one day, we'll get married".

 

If I'm right and this is what you thought as well, then from your post you declined it, which might of scared him a bit as to what your commitment was to the relationship.

 

See you have me confused and I think that is because you are confused yourself. You say you want the relationship to move forward, but at the same time you declined an engagement ring (If that's what you thought it was) but now you are upset because he hasn't given it to you yet.

 

I think the meaning behind it is really up to the couple to determine, but should never be offered, nor accepted without thorough understanding of what, exactly is meant by it. For him, it was a promise of monogomay and commitment on a lesser scale than actual engagement. For me, it meant I would be promising I was going to marry him some day and being only 4 months into the relationship, and a LD relationship at that, it just wasn't something I was ready to commit to, and so without knowing what was intended by it, and given that we were in a jewelry store at that very moment, it wasn't a good time to discuss the meaning, I felt. Another 8 months, one big move where the past half a year or so have been spent here and with him, daily, has happened since that time. When we had the conversation about it a little while back, I told him that I would love to have one and that it would really mean a lot to me.

 

And by the way, how do you know he hasn't already bought it and is waiting for the right moment, or maybe it's a big one and he's still making payments on it. You don't, you are "assuming" he hasn't or isn't going to do it.

 

I actually didn't know that, but was pretty sure of it, so yes...it was an assumption...which happened to be dead on. There is no ring, nor has he been to even look at any...that is a fact. I knew that last night before I posted. To be totally honest, with the latest events in our relationship, I'm glad that there isn't one, either. I don't want to lose him, but I don't see that we are remotely ready to take these steps, either.

 

I did talk to him today and tried to explain why and how the feeling that he won't follow through with commitments makes me feel, and why it can cause those knee jerk reactions (not that they are right) that can be an underlying factor contributing to our fights (He has actually made many minor empty promises...things that I never, ever asked for and hasn't followed through on...this is one of the larger ones). He genuinely doesn't get it and I'm questioning my own perceptions of what's logical and what isn't. I feel like I "get it", what's causing the anxiety and I guess I have always believed that these kinds of things can only lend themselves to insecurities within the relationship and eventually the breakdown in trust...maybe I am wrong.

 

My boyfriend has this ideal of a good marriage, and I'm not saying it was a bad marriage...I don't really know that...that he got from his first marriage. Frankly, they never fought about anything. In fact, they never even discussed things because his ex wife felt that if they had to actually discuss something then it meant their marriage was coming to an end...so they didn't discuss and bottled things up inside instead. In the end, she left him for another man, so I don't think that the marriage was as good as he may have thought, simply because they didn't fight.

 

It feels like he has brought this ideal into our relationship, and I say that because it seems that just when we're moving along fine, growing closer and then we have a discussion, disagreement or an argument and he peddles backward to where we were before we even had the problem and he becomes "unsure" of things. (Mind you, these are not big, blown out, disrespectful fights...we don't fight like that). It feels like this has been the issue the whole time and he admitted, today that because we'd had an argument, he wasn't "feeling it" to follow through on the ring. Okay...I get that, but when was he going to let me in on this?

[Batya33]

It's nice that he's great with your kids but since the relationship is unstable do you really want your kids to experience the pain of losing him? Why not lessen that risk by keeping your kids and boyfriend separate until there is an official commitment?

[facade]

It's nice that he's great with your kids but since the relationship is unstable do you really want your kids to experience the pain of losing him? Why not lessen that risk by keeping your kids and boyfriend separate until there is an official commitment?

 

Thank you for that, Batya, but it's actually too late for that...on both sides. We have failed in this department and intertwined our families to such a large extent that all 4 kids are going to be hurt a lot if we end things. A typical week looks like this for us:

 

Sunday- Get up after staying at bf's house (it's closer to church), go to church at 8 AM with him and his kids, leave church at 12 PM, go for lunch immediately after, then go to his house for naps and kids to play games together or go to the YMCA for "family" day.

 

Monday-Friday - Kids go to school (his go back to mom's after school on Monday), he and I both go to work. 5:30'ish my kids are home from school, sports, etc and it's off to the YMCA (he, myself and my kids) to work out. Back to my house for dinner where we cook and clean together. Sit and watch tv or play video games for an hour or so and then he either stays over (2-3 days a week) or goes home.

 

Saturday- Meet up for some sort of various activity around 2-3'ish, if not sooner. Cook dinner at bf's house and clean up. Play with all of the kids (card games, usually), then my kids and I go home.

 

Believe it or not, this is actually something I took into huge consideration not long ago and discussed with him, when things were a bit rough for us. We are basically living together without living together, if that is possible. I expressed that I was concerned about the position we had put our kids in, if our relationship fails and has even been somewhat of a wrench in things in regards to moving in together, as well. He wants to live together before marriage and while I do understand his perspective, I don't think it's fair to put the kids in a trial family, but then again, it's not like we're not more or less living together, already. It kind of feels like it's too late to go backward where the kids are concerned.

[Batya33]

Well, that's unfortunate and I feel badly for the kids that you made that choice before things were official. Live and learn I guess, although of course they will get even more attached as time goes by - but that's up to you and you seem set to continue down the path of involving your kids in this. Good luck.

[facade]

No, Batya...that's really not it. I am here for opinions, suggestions and ideas from those who can see things from the outside, because it gets so cloudy on the inside. My point was that they're already really involved and we both thought we were cautious with this, because we didn't meet each others' kids for a long time into the relationship. I don't have the answers, here, such as...how do you start some sort of detachment process with the kids, when they're already attached? I pondered that very question, but didn't have any good answers, because it seemed no matter what, I was going to hurt them and that is the last thing I want. I had truly hoped I would never need to address that, since the error of intertwining our families so much was already made. I know they will get more attached to continue as we are and I'm not so sure the relationship is going to survive at this point. I am open to any ideas, here...I don't think it's fair, though it may well happen, to just cut off all contact, suddenly. If you have suggestions, I am here with my mind wide open.

[Batya33]

Well, no you didn't wait a long time - because you've only known him for a year as of now, right? Not saying that to beat you up but I am not sure why you continue to focus on how long you waited and how seriously you took the decision.

 

What I would do is slowly detach - explain to the children that you and he are still going to be "friends" but that the two of you think it is better if for now the friendship is limited to the adults. That if you two plan to marry at some time down the road, you will all do activities together.

 

I was a teacher, nanny, childcare worker and children got very attached to me and our routine. But they're resilient and they got over it once they were told it was "over." Here it will be much harder because of what you chose to do, but it will be even harder down the road, particularly since there is tension now that will be in the air, which your children will absorb.

 

so, yes, slowly - don't pull the rug out from under them, just explain that as their mother you have decided that for now it's best if you don't do as much with him/his kids and each week or several weeks you stop one more activity.

 

Sounds like your heart is in the right place - good luck.

[facade]

Thank you for your input and advice. It really is much appreciated. While I'm absorbing what you have said, I'm anxious for some clarification...how long do you think is appropriate to wait before you have your boyfriend meet your children and then, after that, how long would you wait before you start doing regular activities with them? I ask this for obvious reasons...if the relationship doesn't last, then I am certainly interested in doing it right the next time.

 

On a side note, I didn't realize I was focusing so much on how long we waited and how cautious we were, but if it appears that way, then it's likely because I felt we were being cautious and I didn't think that half a year was too short a period to wait for your SO to meet your kids.

[Batya33]

If I had children I would not let them get involved with my SO until we were engaged with a wedding date. I might let them meet the SO earlier than that but it would be for a brief period of time and as mom's "friend" with no more contact than I would have with a casual girlfriend. Kids don't understand the concept of dating - they get attached as yours have - that is they don't understand that he is just a boyfriend and thereforeeee might be here today, gone tomorrow. Obviously that could happen with marriage too but the risk is far less.

 

One of the authorities on this subject is Dr. Joy Browne (she has a web site and books that involve this subject) plus I know many people who have experienced this. When I was dating I made it clear to the men who had kids what my standard was. Most agreed.

[facade]

Thanks again for your response. I really, truly appreciate that you're taking the time with this. I don't doubt that you know what you're talking about, so I just wanted to get that out of the way, and perhaps I should read some of those books you refer to, but how do you know if your family can blend and that you will like/know/appreciate each others' kids if you aren't involved with them in environments and circumstances other than casual? How do you know if parenting styles can mesh? These are the reasons that I thought how we were doing it was better for all involved because we didn't feel it would be fair to get into marriage and then have the kids be an issue in it. As single parents, clearly there is no easy way to go about accomplishing these things, but having been in a blended home before, where his eldest daughter couldn't stand me, disrespected me and was always in trouble, I was quite gunshy to end up in this position again, and now the result of choosing the other alternative is that our kids, both his and mine, are at risk of being hurt. I don't know what the right and wrong ways are.

[Batya33]

Oh I totally get that issue - here is what I think. I think for the childrens' best interests you just have to take that risk and also realize that your kids might love him as "mom's boyfriend" but if he moved in and became "mom's' husband/our stepfather" they might react entirely differently - that is, it's hard to predict.

 

I have a close friend with 4 kids. She is going through a divorce. Her ex had a whirlwind courtship with this woman and he took the kids to the wedding in an exotic locale. Two of the girls - teenagers were SO excited to meet her, to go to the wedding, to spend two weeks with their new stepmother in this other country, to meet her whole family, etc. Fast forward one year later. for the last 6 months they have been miserable - they find her controlling, difficult, etc. They were fine when she was dad's new wife who took them on this great vacation with many parties but now. . . . well you are a mom, I am sure you can relate.

[facade]

Oh I totally get that issue - here is what I think. I think for the childrens' best interests you just have to take that risk and also realize that your kids might love him as "mom's boyfriend" but if he moved in and became "mom's' husband/our stepfather" they might react entirely differently - that is, it's hard to predict.

 

I agree with that and never really thought about it that way. Both his and my kids love both of us...now, but who's to say that wouldn't change, anyway, down the road if/when we move on to more permanent things. It's kind of like, when you're dating, it's not only the "honeymoon phase" for bf/gf, but is for the kids, as well. Then when the kids realize that it's more than they bargained for, they're not so hip on the relationship anymore.

 

On a side note and off this most current topic for a minute and back to the original...bf came to the house today to deliver a washer to me. Inside it was the ring that he promised. Very sweet but now I'm feeling like I almost bullied him into getting it and with our relationship so on the rocks to the point where we don't know if we're going to stay together or not, it seemed a really bad time to get it. My reaction wasn't what I think he'd hoped for. Yes, I accepted it and it is beautiful and I know his intentions are good and he's trying to repair any damage done and to keep the relationship, but I'm feeling really skeptical about the potential of our relationship and I felt it was only fair to tell him this, rather than accept the ring and say nothing. What a bummer to put a damper on something that should have been a happy moment for both of us. He still wanted me to have it and was receptive to what I had to say about the importance of following through with commitments we make to each other, unless it's just not possible to, in order to prevent insecurities from forming.

 

I was actually feeling really badly about this whole situation...like I was blowing things out of proportion and really being this monster of a person toward him, and in many ways I actually was. But I started thinking back through the entirety of our relationship and realized that there were more things that contributed to the lack of trust in him than just what was in my face and I actually felt good for me...not for us, but for me...like I realized there really wasn't anything wrong with me and that it was no small wonder that I kind of freaked out like I did...I felt almost empowered. It's hard to describe, but realizing that he did contribute to it in a few different ways, I guess for the first time I knew I could walk away from the relationship without beating myself up for it, every step of the way, if it needed to end.

 

I'm definitely far from secure in the relationship and I think he's in the same place. I think it's in both his kids' and mines' best interests to do what you suggested and begin to detach them from the relationship (this is going to be a hard one to get through with him, when we talk about it, because he's going to feel like I'm beginning the break up process with him). On a more positive note, though, he did tell me he'd work on his lack of follow through and realizes the toll it takes on our relationship, so some good did come out of it. Now it's just one VERY SLOW day at a time.

[Batya33]

I am really impressed with you. With your thought process, your insight, your willingness to step up to the plate and take a good hard look at yourself and this relationship (and that has nothing to do with whether you end up agreeing with my opinion - I am just impressed with your process, and whatever decision you come to that is at your judgment and discretion but you will know that whatever the decision you gave it very careful and insightful thought - good for you!).

 

I think the promise ring is sweet yes - and he sounds like he wants to work things out/work on things in the relationship. (as a side note I am glad the ring didn't get lost in the washer!)

 

All the best to you and your family.

[DN]

I think Batya is basically right about waiting until there is a very good prospect for a permanent relationship but I have to disagree with waiting until an engagement. I would introduce kids and prospective partner before that happens because it is possible that the children and the partner simply do not get along well enough to sustain a relationship and probably never will. And if that happens the relationship would have to end - or at least be postponed until the children were old enough that their good opinion was less vital.

 

If that were to happen then it would be much harder to leave the relationship if commitment promises had been made.

[melrich]

If I had children I would not let them get involved with my SO until we were engaged with a wedding date.

 

Wouldn't it be risky asking someone with kids to marry you when you haven't spent anytime with the kids? It seems that would be a big part of that persons life that was unknown to you and potentially a huge part of your life if you get married to the person..

 

I couldn't see myself asking someone with kids to marry me if I did not know the whole package and that would include spending lots of time with the kids.

 

I would think the kids would want to know me too before mommy was suddenly engaged to me.

 

I agree you have to be very careful about introducing kids to new partners. What that timeframe is will be different case by case of course.

 

In your situation, where you both have kids, I think 6 months is no problem at all. In fact it would be quite strange and saying I'm not sure what to each other if you had not introduced them all.

 

At the end of the day, kids are adaptable. If this relationship does not work (and I hope and think it will), the kids will survive. Just be honest with them an include them in all your decision making (including whether to get married or not).

[Batya33]

I think they should be introduced but not seriously involved with the person until engagement is iminent at the very least. Kids are adaptable sure but I don't think it's fair to unnecesarily subject them to situations that are more likely than not to be temporary, particularly if they've experienced the loss of a parent through divorce, death, abandonment, etc. I've seen the opposite first hand - where the kids are not adaptable and get attached and then have to experience loss and abandonment again, in a short time period.

 

In that case I think it is in the best interests of the child not to let them get involved/attached just to someone the parent is dating. Meeting the kids - sure - when the dating is serious and I think I wrote that above - they can meet just like they meet other friends of the parents as long as it is kept at an appropriate distance given the lack of a commitment. I agree it is important to see if the families will blend well but that can be done further down the road, when engagement is iminent and in baby steps to lessen the impact on the kids if it doesn't work out. It's not the easiest for the adults who want to marry again but having kids from what I have seen is not easy and requires a lot of sacrifice and a lot of acting in their best interests instead of one's own.

 

I am not commenting on whether the OP has acted or not in the kids best interests nor am I commenting whether melrich has - I am commenting generally based on my knowledge, experience and background with children.

[DN]

I think the most important part is to not let the kids think that this new person is going to be in their lives forever unless there is a strong possibility of that happening. The label is not so much important to them as the actuality of the relationship.

[Batya33]

Very well put - entirely agree. However i will say that from what I have seen and heard/read kids don't "get" dating, they "get" attached so even if you explain it to them intellectually, so it certainly requires a level of sensitivity and care which you reflected in your posts on this subject.