I approach a woman for the first time but...

[inter-verted]

it turns out nice guys do finish last, at least in a night club setting. It all starts as a usual night out enjoying my beer and then I spot her accross the room in the VIP area. I remember her from a while back waving me over to take a picture of her with friends. The darn camera couldn't shoot for some reason, probably due to my bad karma that malfunctions electronics. Anyway we glance at each other many times, I'm talking like 30 times throughout the whole night. This is a sure sign she's into me but I hesitate to go over and talk to her. So I decide to have a shot of tequila to curb the shyness. It works and I lose my inhibitions but the alcohol has burned my throat to the stomach. How can people enjoy this stuff?

 

The night club is getting so packed I have to relocate to the very back corner of the bar, fortunately behind where the girl was sitting. She returns from the dance floor and says hi to me. That's the first time ever a woman has said that! She asks why I'm not dancing and gets all irritated at the waiter afterwards probably venting why I'm not responding. I figured she'd get testy over my lack of interest, or as it appears. I finally get the courage to talk to her after watching other guys mack and try to get her phone number. Another goal achieved which is not getting jealous over other guys and still taking a the chance at talking to her despite the competition.

 

So I explain to her why I am the way I am: a shy guy. Of course the one question that comes to mind with women in this setting is: WHY? I hate this and wonder if all the girls here believe all the guys are jerks with no exceptions. I explain my unwillingness to approach women due to lack of confidence, fear of rejection, and boring them to death. I mentioned the social anxiety aspect but that probably was the wrong move. I told her up front I liked her and she blushed and turned away. I must have confused her because she started to ignore me afterwards. Then comes the cliche reason we can't be together: you're a nice guy. Oh crap, now I've really blown it.

 

When she complained that I always sit in the same spot every weekend and don't do a thing, I thought she'd realize what I'm like. If she had a thing for me it was destroyed by my desperate attempt to prove my shyness. I even went so far as to show her my notes I take from "The complete idiots guide to dating." She laughed at the tip to pretend you are interested by using body language. Then mention I have read other dating sites like the playas handbook and she tells me to not believe a thing they say. I beg to differ!!!

 

What the hell am I doing?! I'm giving away secrets that us guys use to seduce women. I guess I want to protect or at least inform these irresponsible girls how the playas are brainwashing and manipulating you. She agreed on that note but probably couldn't figure out why. I explained that I was unique and not like the rest, but she took as an act or some way to eventually get into her pants. Is that close to bragging or is it the truth which scares them?

 

I guess i'm going about this the wrong way but I told her I don't want to be a jerk. Obviously she wanted one to go home with cause that's what happened. She told me to go dance with the other girls but I made the excuse they're probably all taken by now. Good way to lower my self-confidence even further. I must look like a wuss to her and not worth it. It doesn't matter since all I wanted to accomplish was talking to a girl for the first time not vice versa. I've been approached by women who don't suit my criteria such as looks and all they do is use and abuse me. Why did I tell her that! Now she thinks I can't stick up for myself, big mistake and a total turnoff. I blame the alcohol for putting me through this mess and screwing up.

 

I told her i could go to a coffee shop or the library to find the girl for me but it's just too boring. I could see she didn't want to hurt my feelings. I tried to explain I have a wild side that is ready to come out, but she wanted to know how that is so. I blanked out for a minute trying to think up an answer. That proved I was full of it and reinforces the fact I'm still a nice guy. I can't win and let go of the infatuation with her. So be it she ends up with a jerk who takes her home and they have a one night stand. I bet she'll feel so empty inside by morning and be thinking of me or some other nice guy who would treat her right. I even mentioned that to her how the rest of the guys are out to use and abuse you so why don't you settle for me instead.

 

I made all the nice guy mistakes and know it's all my fault I didn't end up with her in the end. Oh well, maybe it was all for the best. At least I got to talk to someone for a change other than the bartender. One step closer to getting the girl of my dreams, or at least for a night. Yeah, I'll admit I go there to look for the same results: a roll in sack with some woman for a night. I just can't help it since I'm pre-programmed by TV shows like Real World and Bad Girls. Plus the fact I'm still a virgin and don't want to be one by age 30.

 

We did get to know each other in the midst of the small talk. Her name is Sonja and lives 30 mi. northwest of town. I bet I'll see her again three weeks from now and show her a thing or to that I'm not shy anymore.

 

After overcoming this hurdle I think I can finally approach women anywhere, at least at a bar.

[willow2900]

Good for you for making the first steps! That took a lot of guts and hardship and risk I am sure! But you are steps closer to what you are seeking - fun conversations with women (and potentially the one night stand thing....)

 

Yes, in clubs, nice guys do finish last. And probably, in clubs, they always will. But that doesn't mean that you aren't able to meet someone elsewhere! Take the lessons you are learning and apply them in other situations. When the time is right I am sure that you will have the relationship you are looking for. A lot of women want a nice guy; just look at how many threads there are about women meeting the "bad" guy.

 

And for the record, I LOVE tequilla. Yummy....but evil.

[Balistic01]

Hey mate, well done for making a move. It's the only way your going to get somewhere with a Girl and get rid of that Shyness. However I think the topic of coversation was extremely wrong. I say this, because although girls do like nice guy's they don't want you to explain you are one and that your really shy. There looking for a confident guy, one who has no hang ups if a girl that he chat to is not interested. Someone who really doesn't care. My thoughts anyway.

[inter-verted]

I forgot to mention when I pulled out my notes on playing women she yelled out doing that!" I chuckled and realized she didn't either want me to become a playa like the rest or hates the fact I know the techniques. I thought there is a handbook for women as well to be a playa.

 

I'm reconsidering the one night stand thing since it is very risky and everybody gets hurt in the end. What is going on in this world?! It's like we are living in a Girls Gone Wild video but that's supposed to be fantasy. Where is the love people!? I was at coffee shop last Mon. and overheard sex talk between two bookworms so obviously promiscuity is spreading like wildfire. Good girls gone bad! This must be the end of times.

[hardcharger]

don't fret, very often NICE GUYS finish first, or shy guys too. I am in my 40's and have noticed that the fast mover, fast talkers, guys who will say anything to bed a women are the first ones to get divorced or after they settle in, get the least sex! Guys who are honest with women seem to get the woman with more staying power and often appear to have a more long fulfilling sex life, so it may work out for you in the end, keep trying!

[rusty_boi]

U did good for overcoming some of ure hurdles and also in realising that the topic of conversation was the worst thing u cudda talked bout. But theres one more ting

 

I even mentioned that to her how the rest of the guys are out to use and abuse you so why don't you settle for me instead.

 

No girl should have to settle for u and u shudnt settle for a girl, its got disaster written all over it, you wont be happy in the long run. I got this website from a post a while back it is one of the most useful tools out there for nice guys so have a look link removed

[Honey Pumpkin]

Well done for approaching her. I'm going to be brutally honest, though, and suggest that your chat wasn't really suited for a club. It was all about YOU, and your social problems, and how you want to be etc - it just seems too intense for a night club, too much information at once, too detailed and too focused on how you're feeling and your life and past. I think it sounds like she *was* intrigued by you, but got scared off by the avalanche of information you produced.

 

I don't think it's so much 'nice guy' syndrome, more that you came accross as, I don't know, too intense? Look at what you've written, it's all about what you said rather than her - did you find out anything about her?

 

Sorry, don't want to sound harsh, I just think your approach might have put off a girl who was potentially interested in you. Too much ifnormation too quickly, rather than asking her out for a coffee to see a different you, or getting her phone number.

 

Keep at it, though - practice makes perfect

[annie24]

oh, I agree 100%! That doesn't sound like it was a good approach at all. It sounded like she was interested, like when she was asking you why you weren't dancing, it sounds like she was hinting for you to ask her to dance! And yeah, the conversation was all about you and your difficulties in dating, not a fun conversation. Save that for your therapist, not girls in clubs. Like honey said, what else did you learn about her besides her name and where she lives?

 

I agree that you should have just gone and danced with her and smiled, and then asked her for her number so you could call her and ask her out to a coffeeshop where you can talk easier than at a nightclub.

[SexySadie7]

Well.. geez.. if you are hoping to score a one night stand... why are you being so judgemental to her if she has one?

Also.. us girls don't want to be "playas"! we think of playas as immature, self-absorbed, jerks who only care about themselves and one thing. Usually those guys too, are, ALL TALK, and if I had the misfortunte to end up with a playa.. he sure didn't have it together in bed.. so what's the point in that?

 

I'd much rather be with a guy who took his time to get to know me. You are right you don't want to be the person who leaves the club with someone you just met. But.. consider this, if this girl is having a lot of one night stands, do you really want to get with her?

 

Yes.. people, and not just girls, cuz guys are equally guilty of this, are much more promiscious now and give very little thought to someone else's feelings many times when they are wanting just sexual relationships. Some people may call it being a player, but in my book, you are just using people and I don't look up to someone like that at all, no matter, how smooth they are, or how successful they are at "hooking up".

 

To me... that type of person is missing, as Jennifer Anniston said, "a sensitivity chip". They are all about themselves in other words, and those kinds of people are not pleasant to hang out with.

 

I got a few guy friends who are playas.. they don't really care if they string women along.. they flirt with other girls even if they have a steady girlfriend. Do i admire them for this trait? No.. i think they are shallow and immature and really, I get tired, and offended, by always hearing about their conquests or how they view women as sex objects! It's ego deflating and demeaning to hang out with them, considering they seem to forget, I'm a woman, too, and might be offended by their sexist viewpoints!

 

It gets very tiresome to hang out with these people, although they look down their nose at me cuz I don't go into the local clubs and pick up random guys.

 

I even had one of these playa types friend ask me if i even had a sex drive once!!

 

In his mind, i guess, cuz I wasn't banging random strangers left and right, like he was, I wasn't in touch with my sexual desires, and thereforeeee lacking a sex drive. What he didn't know was that I am very sexual and think about sex alot.. but i'm not going to risk my life to screw some guy I don't even know.

 

He also wanted to fool around with me.. but knowing his promiscuous history, although he's a bit attractive and we have alot in common, I'll never sleep with him, cuz i think he's too risky a person to have sex with.

I also don't like how he treats women, and don't want to be another notch in his bedpost, nor do I think he's got the maturity to not talk about his sexual encounters to other people!

 

I also see how he treats his gf... well, he's nice to her in person, but constantly flirts and acts inappropriately with other females, there's no way i'd want that kind of person for my bf!

 

so.. you can be a playa, if you'd like to.... but.. lordy. .it's got some huge consequences.

 

Trust me, the whole world hasn't turned into some crazy version of "girls gone wild" although many people would want you to think that. I hate these guys who expect all women to act slutty and immoral now just cuz that's what their favorite late time infocommercial hails as the new "IT" girl.

 

These people are demented and twisted imho. I'll never show off my breasts to total strangers just cuz they wanna see something like that.. but you know.... lots of grown women do act that way now...

 

That's their thing... I was brought up with some class. If that bothers some guy.. he's not worth my time anyway.

 

There's alot of us out there that have morals and intelligence enough not to sleep around.

 

Maybe, they wouldn't fit your "model looks" type of description, but there's plenty of pretty attractive girls out there who aren't sleeping around and don't have any STDs.

 

Find some of those, instead of the club hopping, bed hopping variety.

 

you will be alot safer and less likely to get your heart broken too. LOL...

 

Oh.. btw.. what are the techniques that playa's use?? We'd like to know so we don't keep getting the shaft by these jerks.

[Locke2121]

Dude, you got the will, but not the skills! Thats ok, because skills have to be learned and some can take years.

 

First of all, THROW THE BOOKS AWAY! While they are interesting reading, thats all they are. Things in the real world change way to fast for you to adapt anything in the books to the situation.

 

Second...you mentioned a disorder...that needs to be treated before you start working on your skills. The disorder is making you so uptight that you aren't paying proper attention to the ladies.

 

However, I can give you a starting tip right now...talking to a lady...let the lady do the talking! Very often, men just blank out when it comes to something to say. Or like you, they say the wrong darn thing....you TOLD her you have a disorder????! Trust me, when you pulled out the crib sheets, she knew something was up. So the best thing to do is control the conversation in such a way as she does most of the talking.

 

Its best to have several intelligent, but generic questions ready. Are you going to college, what is your line of work, do you have family in the area...from the answers you recive from the lady, you can craft new questions. The trick is to simply keep her talking, and the more she talks, the more comfortable you get. Once you get comfortable, you can start interjecting things about yourself..where you were born, your job, things like that.

 

 

 

Oh, if you ever start to loose control of the situation like you did when you started talking about brainwashing, pretend that you just remembered some lame-a@@ appointment and have to leave....but say this...

 

"I have to admit, your one of the most interesting ladies I've met here in a long time! Lets exchange numbers, I'd love to see you again real soon."

 

See, up until that point, she was laughing and having a good time! She probably thought it was cute how you were using dating notes. But then you had to go and get all serious and try to prove her wrong and tell her men are brainwashing her.....thats when you got shut down.

 

 

 

Ok, go get that disorder medicated, then all us guys can set down and talk some more...and the ladies too if they are interested.

[annie24]

I agree Locke - generic questions are good - where are you from? what are you studying? that is a cool tattoo, where did you get it? or just talk about the club, like you like it better now under its new ownership. or ask her if she's seen any cool bands recently.... that kind of stuff.....

 

in the early stages of dating you have to be your authentic self, but still put your best foot forward. I mean, don't pretend to be someone you are not, but show the good side of yourself, and leave out the therapy talk.

[inter-verted]

Thanks for all the tips guys! It's pretty much the same stuff I've read on dating sites but much more simple concepts.

 

I told a dude who asked me the night before why I'm sitting all alone. I explained tham I'm shy and he asked why. What is so surprising about being this way for the bar hoppers? He basically gave me a few pointers like you guys but I made the excuse I'm too intelligent to small talk. I hate that way of opening to others like it's a nice day. I'm an intermediate weather enthusiast and don't want to talk about it in that boring, cliche way. I know how to predict it and understand the dynamics on a 3D level. Same applies for everything else including relationships and social aspects.

 

I know I know I sound like a know it all and have been told that lately. I'm going to take care of these narcissistic ways with my therapist because it keeps getting me in trouble with nice people. BTW isn't it a little cliche to ask "where are you from" etc? Don't girls get bored with all that stuff when being hit on by at least 50 guys a night?

 

So the only other thing to point out is she must have triggered that need to prove myself since everyone there thinks it's an act. Even the bartenders don't believe me! That's why I verbally attack or defend myself when someone assumes I'm wrong. I do the same to others so their should be a lesson here. Anyway she did mention having anxiety to trying to relate to what I deal with. I took it as pitty and further fuels my reason to fully explain why. Why ask why so don't!

 

Yeah, I may be hard on myself and on others never giving them a chance which is why I'm all alone. All dating self-help books say the first thing is to be happy with yourself and then you can date. Don't skip steps but I'm too impatient.

[Locke2121]

Ugghh...dude, small talk is the REASON your at the club! All the serious stuff comes much later down the road! Your not going to meet the love of your life and get married in one fell swoop!

 

No, girls rarely get tired of small talk, because small talk is how more expressive relationships start. You can't launch directly into a philisophical debate right from the start! People who do that seem strange and unpredictable, and not in a good way.

 

The only weather question you should EVER have with a woman is to smile at her and say "Did it just get hot in her or is it me." Weather is a no no.

 

FIND ANOTHER HANG OUT! You have spoiled this one for yourself. You are now "The weird dude that tells everyone he is shy" which is a nasty thing to be.

 

Yes, she may have been trying to relate, but more likely it was just a way to keep the conversation flowing...

 

Don't be hard on yourself, it will get you no-where but down this same road.

 

You need to see if you can get that disorder fixed so your not so uptight. This game called flirting is supposed to be FUN!

[Shajenko]

A lot of women want a nice guy; just look at how many threads there are about women meeting the "bad" guy.

 

A lot of women say that they want a nice guy. Their actions show that this is a lie.

[Locke2121]

Not true! Many women do want a nice guy....provided that nice guy is also a man!

 

Nice guys often lack the pure confidence and willpower that men have. Have you ever heard of a woman referring to a man as a great catch? That is a man who also has a sensitive side, is good with children, cares for her feelings and does nice things for her simply because it makes her happy.

[annie24]

A lot of women say that they want a nice guy. Their actions show that this is a lie.

 

yes, women want a nice guy, but that isn't it. it's not enough to be a nice guy, she has to feel a certain chemistry with him, has to like spending time with him, has to like who he is.... etc..... being "nice" on its own isn't really enough to start a romantic relationship on.

[Shajenko]

I told a dude who asked me the night before why I'm sitting all alone. I explained tham I'm shy and he asked why. What is so surprising about being this way for the bar hoppers? He basically gave me a few pointers like you guys but I made the excuse I'm too intelligent to small talk.

 

 

A) Don't brag about your intelligence. To anyone. Ever.

B) No, you're not too intelligent for small talk. Small talk is just asking questions about other people to get a feel for them, to get some basic information.

[Shajenko]

yes, women want a nice guy, but that isn't it. it's not enough to be a nice guy, she has to feel a certain chemistry with him, has to like spending time with him, has to like who he is.... etc..... being "nice" on its own isn't really enough to start a romantic relationship on.

 

Then they should say what they mean. Obviously being nice isn't as important as being sexy.

[annie24]

I don't think he ever had a chance to show his "nice guy" behavior. I was re-reading "Mars and Venus on a date" (a great book), and it had a section on how men should be in the early stages of dating. Basically, saying, don't tell your female love interest all your problems. Because that awakens her "nurturing and mothering side", not her "romantic" side. And this is true. When a guy starts telling me his problems, I will hug him and give him advice, like I would to a younger brother. But I won't think of him in a Boyfriend sort of way, or wonder what he looks like with his shirt off

 

You can be a nice guy, and turn a woman off if you say such things to her.

 

Do men want nice women? Yes. Is it enough that she is nice, or does she have to have other qualities as well? what if she is nice but as dumb as a doornail and had bad breath and not attractive? would being "nice" be enough to attract a boyfriend? People are looking for the "package deal", not any one quality.

[Leonhart]

I don't think he ever had a chance to show his "nice guy" behavior. I was re-reading "Mars and Venus on a date" (a great book), and it had a section on how men should be in the early stages of dating. Basically, saying, don't tell your female love interest all your problems. Because that awakens her "nurturing and mothering side", not her "romantic" side. And this is true. When a guy starts telling me his problems, I will hug him and give him advice, like I would to a younger brother. But I won't think of him in a Boyfriend sort of way, or wonder what he looks like with his shirt off

 

 

Do you think this applies to once you are dating seriously, or even, married? Or just during the initial stages of the relationship?

[annie24]

Do you think this applies to once you are dating seriously, or even, married? Or just during the initial stages of the relationship?

 

What the book said (and what I think also), this just pretty much applies in the first stages of dating. Once the relationship becomes more serious, then of course, both parties should be able to discuss their inner thoughts and work out problems. But, yeah, in the beginning stages, it is a turn off, I think, to talk too much about your problems, especially problems attracting women! Afterall, I'm sure that that girl at the club was thinking, "what am I, chopped liver? I am showing you interest, and you're not going for me, just talking about some other random girl. Well, forget that. I'm going to go talk to that other guy over there."

[Leonhart]

Yeah, I agree.

 

I was just asking because I remember when I was engaged, I'd share anything I was feeling or thinking with her, and she with me. It was nice. I miss that level of intimacy.

 

But I can see how it would be a turn off in the beginning stages of a relationship before intimacy has been established.

[annie24]

Yeah, definitely, it is way different when you are in a serious relationship! But I remember one time, I had just met a guy, I totally was attracted to how tall and handsome he was, but as the night went on, he complained so much about how his life sucked and how his father abandoned him, I mean, come on! What a mood killer!

[jenny_mcs]

As others have said, don't start telling some random woman in a club all of your problems and issues. It makes you seem desperate and needy.

 

Don't say things like this, it's not true and demeaning:

 

it I even mentioned that to her how the rest of the guys are out to use and abuse you so why don't you settle for me instead.

 

Also, this has me wondering:

 

 

I made all the nice guy mistakes

 

Your mistakes do not seem particularly "nice guy" mistakes. Your mistakes were that you talked all about yourself, and your problems, and tried to get her interested in you by using your desperation to make her pity you.

 

In the future, as others have said, ask her questions and get to know her. Don't put others down to make yourself seem more appealing. Don't say or imply that you're too smart to chat or joke around.

 

Ask her questions about her job, her school, music, movies, etc. Joke around a little. Let things flow naturally. Good luck!

[scotty77]

I don't think the original poster has a disorder just because he gets anxious and nervous about approaching women in a bar setting.A lot of guys have trouble approaching women in bars,the music is so loud and many of us aren't comfortable about dancing.Try other settings!!