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Men and Women...There is in fact a difference.


TheRedQueen
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My response to the current Sticky.

 

For anyone who is interested in gender/sex issues, please read the following articles.

 

An article from The Los Angeles Times: "Deep, Dark Secrets of His and Her Brains"

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An article from The Massachusetts News: "Why Don't Women Choose Mathematics and Engineering?"

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An article from The Chronicle of Higher Education: "Primed for Numbers: Are boys born better at math? Experts try to divide the influences of nature and nurture"

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I think it is a great shame that a thread designed to try to help understanding between people should have been so misunderstood. It seems that some people will never get it.

 

The original thread has been unstuck since it has obviously miserably failed in it's purpose.

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I know the other thread was perhaps posted because of a different thread.....which mostly turned into a name-calling childish session...got very grade school at a few points.

 

I am glad to be a female. I have gone through some very bad things because of it...yet...I wouldn't trade it. I have been watching some new mothers and expectant mothers post latey..it brings me back to when I had my three sons...

 

Some women choose to exploit their bodies, or allow them to be exploited...some do not know any better for many reasons. But through the personal growth I have experienced...knowing that I could carry a life, bring it into the world and still nourish it..with the same body. Was empowering.

After a child is born, the father, or male figure adds the other half of the puzzle to a human beings development. And yes, we are different....but there are variables. Some men make better mothers than many females. And there are some females who would rather be the breadwinners.

 

It stinks to put down, or degrade either sex. We are all people. We need each other in the scheme of things.

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As a young man, I saw how men and women were assigned roles based on gender differences based on both real and mythical traits.

In many cases, it limited men and women to assigned roles.

 

The rise of popular feminism changed things.

 

The downside of those times was forgotten by successive generations,

To a point where 20something men and women are nostalgic for something they never really saw.

 

Do the genders differ? I think so, but with a huge overlap.

As a fan of individualism, I prefer a level playing field.

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I think it is a great shame that a thread designed to try to help understanding between people should have been so misunderstood. It seems that some people will never get it.

 

The original thread has been unstuck since it has obviously miserably failed in it's purpose.

 

Some people just fail to see the forest for the trees. DN, I'm sure most people understood what the thread was about.

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Do the genders differ? I think so, but with a huge overlap.

As a fan of individualism, I prefer a level playing field.

Right arm, Dako. It's a wonder we focus on the differences between the genders when there are so many more similarities to behold.

 

Observe this little emoticon: At first glance the two halves may appear to be opposites, but are they not exactly the same shape and size? Moreover, only by the two uniting in harmony can a perfect circle representing wholeness (the basis for a happy face) be made manifest.

 

Contrary to popular belief, I should add, yin and yang do not strictly symbolize man and woman; rather, aggression and passivity; light and dark; fire and water. It is natural and correct for one person to strive for the balanced embodiment of both sides of human nature.

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I will personally give a million bucks to the first person who can demonstrate that they've actually read all three articles.

 

Are there people out there who actually believe that there are no viable differences between the sexes, i.e. that the only difference between the sexes is strictly cultural?

 

And I know this is kind of old news, but I read Larry Summers' speech, and I agreed with him.

 

I need to get out of this country.

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Red,

 

I admit only reading the story about Einstein researchers, and I don't discount physical differences in the cortex, but I'd hate to see it used for social engineering.

 

If I read the other two, do I get a cookie?

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Are there people out there who actually believe that there are no viable differences between the sexes, i.e. that the only difference between the sexes is strictly cultural?

 

I guess Gender Studies (albeit great and important discussions taking place in this field) has to do with this somewhat since a lot of emphasis IS placed on deconstructing the gender binary. (From what limited observations I've been able to make) Among gender theorists, there is a general reluctance to acknowledge the biological differences between the genders. I too am guilty as charged sometimes

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Among gender theorists, there is a general reluctance to acknowledge the biological differences between the genders.

Great point Ellie. I'm so sick of these fact-ignoring PC-spewing fascists.

 

Oh my god, I'm turning into my father...must...take...a...shower.

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She says size of the brain does not influence intelligence but then she claims there is a gradual decline in mens intelligence due to a decrease in volume.

 

I think studies like these will always be biased by the person studying them. I think it is a dangerous study, best as far as intelligence goes just to say all are born equal but apparently different, so not to discourage people from entering fields which the may potentially make a large contribution.

 

"Why Don't Women Choose Mathematics and Engineering?"

 

because they don't have a male ego.

 

I don't trust the part about the testosterone in transexual females.

 

When i was in high school I struggled with mathematics, particularily in final year calc. But I persisted with it and after a while it became easy. I persisted because I thought it was expected. Saying women are not as good at maths as men serves to discourage girls from a subject that is hard and requires a lot of effort that you should have trouble with. Part of the problem might be that girls are offered an easy out and we're just trying to justify it.

 

" In general, girls tend to follow instructions better than boys do, which made the girls less likely to change strategies on their own, says Ms. Carr. So it was the boys' competitive nature -- whether learned or innate -- that caused them to make leaps in learning."

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Well, women weren't allowed to read and write back then. Interestingly enough, I just watched a show about the misogyny likely behind the negative typing of many Biblical females such Eve, Delilah, Jezebel, Mary Magdalene, and Salome - a real-life person who had next to nothing to do with John the Baptist's death.

 

Yeesh... when Red reads that post, her head's gonna blow like a watermelon at a Gallagher show.

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Oy, where to begin.

 

First and foremost, the differing effects of sex hormones on both men and women have been widely studied and documented. I've provided two wiki links below that may or may not change your opinion on the "honesty" of the article's claims.

 

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we are all equal. most men are into the physical jobs because their body can take it easier and has been that way for years and years. women haven't been in the executive world for long (half a century or less), but they are slowly taking over. We will just end up being the guys that change the water cooler jugs.

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I guess I'm not sure what the point of this thread is.

 

Mixing science with social agenda (on either side) is never a good idea and almost never works. You will observe that all of these studies mentioned are still in the very early stages and have not been without their share of critics.

 

More importantly, the human brain is one of the areas of scientific endeavor that we still know almost nothing about. We have been studying the brain for some time, and still know almost nothing about it and how it functions. It's an incredibly complicated organ and all of the science on it is quite primitive.

 

That said, I think it is interesting to think about the differences between the way women and men think and behave, but only to a point. When you start making blanket statements like, "men are more naturally suited to math," you will always be twisting the truth severely. The truth is that the variation within the SAME sexes with individuals is much, much greater than the overall variation between the brains of opposite sexes. In other words, I can find you girls that have brains that function very similar to mine, and boys that have brains that aren't even remotely like mine. The diversity is so great within the human race that it is almost (not quite!) a waste of time to compare such things.

 

You will notice that I did say "not quite." I do believe it is worthwhile to study this topic. Another reason I'm concerned about these oversimplifications is that people will use this as an excuse- I'm not lazy, my brain is lazy! I'm not a bad person, my brain is predisposed to evil! I'm not bad at math, my brain is bad at math! Especially on a site like this where you see all these people who believe in Fate or that everything that happens to them is beyond their control. It becomes very dangerous very quickly.

 

In summary- very primitive study, needs to be studied more before serious conclusions can be made. Be careful about drawing sweeping generalizations from studies in their early stages.

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i think it's all relative to your upbringing. if you were taught math really young, you can do it easier than someone who wasn't. if you were taught to play football everyday with your dad, you might be into sports more than someone else and know more about it. ETC.

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  • 2 months later...
I will personally give a million bucks to the first person who can demonstrate that they've actually read all three articles.

 

Are there people out there who actually believe that there are no viable differences between the sexes, i.e. that the only difference between the sexes is strictly cultural?

 

And I know this is kind of old news, but I read Larry Summers' speech, and I agreed with him.

 

I need to get out of this country.

 

 

Im sure there are people out there who actually believe the differences between women and men are completely cultural because they never look at the science behind it. Culture is a powerful element in a persons life but not more powerful than genetics. Mapping of the brain has shown that women and men are asked the same question, different parts of their brain become active. This shows me that men and women address problems differently considering different possibilities and examining things from different angles.

 

I would hate to believe that this should actually be news to people but culture has its role in shaping people and gender roles but culture cannot be held completely responsible for the way men and women act. Cultures can tell their people what is socially acceptable and that is all it does. The cultural influence is conscious because it surrounds us. Our genetic predisposition is what determines what are roles will be, our genetics does not care what is socially acceptable.

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