Money Issue causing Relationship Conflict

[Jessica7887]

Am really sad about something that happened this weekend and I really don't know what I did wrong. Guess I need totally objective opinions cos' I don't know if my well meaning friends are biased. I am an Asian girl who was seeing a white guy 18 years older for almost 2 years. Both of us are in similar white collar professions and are financially independent. Our relationship hasn't always been smooth-sailing. I learnt that he was divorced only after I had been dating him for 3 months through a friend of his and 2 months later he went on a short holiday with an ex girlfriend of his after we had a quarrel which I found out from him 1 month later after we had a another argument. I thought of leaving him then but he seemed really keen on making things work so I stuck on. Our arguments have always centered around a selected few issues (1) Money- we had an argument after he brought me to his friend's wedding on an island; a couple whom I had never met before. He stayed over for 3 days but I only joined him for a night. However, he says he was shocked I did not offer to pay half for the wedding gift he had bought and also the one night's stay in the room we had shared! He says he feels he should not be paying for me as I make good money in a good job whereas he would pay for a girl who was not in a financially secure position.I found that reallly insulting! But he claims that it's a culture difference...Also he wouldn't buy a set of golf clubs for me cos' I can afford it myslef whereas he actually bought a set costing over a $1000 for another woman friend cos' she is poor.I try and alternate and pay for dinners/movies etc when we go out but he still thinks I have a bad attitude towards money.(2) My Asian mentality again towards money.

Anyway, now he says he doesn't see the realtionship heading for marriage (he brought it up himself) as he thinks we are incompatible because of the money issue (specifically he says it went downhill after the wedding incident),because he thinks I am too Asian (because of a chance comment I made saying: my kids better be bright kids and do well) and because I am too concentrated on my career whereas he is going to retire soon. Recently I went away to do a research attachment and he thinks that instead of concentrating on writing papers, I should have enjoyed myself more and then make up some story about having done some work to my dept.

I don't know why he is acting like this but it really hurts and frustrates me.

Could you guys tell me if I was wrong about being mad about the money issue at the wedding? I have bought him presents and have made sure that I never let him pay for a succession of dates and have alternated all the time. I have asked my American friends and they all say it's not a culture issue about the wedding fiasco because they think the same and this guy is just telling you this because he thinks you don't know any better....

I really don't know what to do.It kinda hurts because you've invested feelings in this relationship..

[Mrs Elliott Smith]

It is NOT a culture issue. I'm white, and have not known many white men who want their girlfriends to pay half for everything. Granted, there are men like that in *every* culture/race. But to my knowledge, it's not something that white men are known for.

 

This man seems to be a tad ignorant. The comment you made about wanting your kids to be bright and him attributing your comment to your being Asian . . . what the f---!!!!!! WHO DOESN'T want their kids to be bright!?

 

This man, lose him. He's at a different place in life than you are. He's insensitive. Honestly, it sounds like all he wants to do is have fun, since he's now a "free man" (divorce). But in the back of his mind, I'm sure, he still thinks about finding a woman to stick with during his later years in life. A woman, that is, who is closer in age, and who will be ready to sit home with him all day while he "retires."

 

You seem to be very intelligent, and it seems that none of his behavior was a result of your own actions. You can do better.

[keenan]

I have asked my American friends and they all say it's not a culture issue about the wedding fiasco because they think the same and this guy is just telling you this because he thinks you don't know any better....

 

I agree with your friends. I'm sure you must have positive feelings for this guy, but from your description of his behavior he sounds dishonest, lazy, manipulative, and mean. This isn't a cultural issue...it's a jerk issue. You sound great ~ take care of yourself.

 

Edited to say that I'm not suggesting that he's a jerk because he prefers that you pay half -- this is variable in relationships (although to expect you to pay half for a wedding present for HIS friends is unusual). I'm objecting to the fact that he cheated on you, and that he's using your culture as a reason to insult you & suggest that your feelings about relationship finances, child rearing, and work ethic are unreasonable and somehow less valuable than his own.

[caro33]

I agree with your friends too. He sounds like he is using excuses to criticise you. No idea why, maybe he's pulling an ego thing where he wants to be older and wiser and "teach" you, or maybe he wants to keep you slightly off-balance so he gets to be in control.

 

There is nothing in what you said that speaks about cultural issues to me. I have dated men who want to pay, and men who don't. But with the wedding issue, even I, who generally pay for myself no matter what, would have probably expected him to foot the bill. It was his friend, and he's staying there anyway. If you invited him to a wedding then I would similarly expect you to buy the present and probably cover accommodation without too much complaint.

 

I'm not sure about the golf clubs. If you expect him to buy you some, then I get why he might have a problem. Ideally, the fact that he has bought them for others is beside the point - it's his business. But it also sounds from what you say that he's getting very precious, and he's making excuses in a general sense.

 

Unless there is stuff you have left out that is material in understanding this, I think you can do better. For whatever reason, this guy is playing games and he's not being honest with you, or kind of screwed up about Asians. He might also know he doesn't want to marry you but he's not sure why, so he's grasping at straws. It could be anything: maybe he doesn't want children, and he thinks you do, or maybe he's feeling old and it's affecting his ego. He might also just be looking to the money thing because it's an age old reason why younger women choose to be with older guys: he's perhaps saying you are in it for the money. I'm not saying it's true, but perhaps that's his perception or excuse for not progressing on the relationship with you.

 

The upshot is, I think, that if he's serious, listen to him that he doesn't want to commit. You are being told something here, even if the reason he puts forward seems dumb. If commitment is what you want, then time to look elsewhere, and find someone where your values don't even come into question. Maybe someone closer to you age as well, perhaps fewer problems there.

[Scotcha]

Anyway, now he says he doesn't see the realtionship heading for marriage (he brought it up himself) as he thinks we are incompatible because of the money issue (specifically he says it went downhill after the wedding incident),because he thinks I am too Asian (because of a chance comment I made saying: my kids better be bright kids and do well) and because I am too concentrated on my career whereas he is going to retire soon.

 

This quote really jumped out to me as the root of all your relationship troubles. In a way, the money you spend on a relationship is a sort of investment. Perhaps the reason why you are having so many issues with money is because he doesn't see this relationship going anywhere permanent and so he doesn't feel the need to contribute any more than "his" share. (In no way am I saying that money makes a relationship work though!) Just a thought... I mean, he told you bottom line that he would be willing to pay for another woman.. Just not for you.

 

Also, I think that his comment of you being "too Asian" (WHATEVER THAT MEANS!?) is totally out of line. I'm white.. I want my kids to be bright and do well too.. I think most parents want the very best for their kids and I also believe that most parents are able to accept their children as they are.

 

I think you would be better off without this relationship.

[Jessica7887]

Thanks people for your comments and advice! This is the first time in my life (believe it or not...) I've ever posted on a message board for advice on relationship problems and am pleasantly surprised and encouraged by the support here!

Mrs Elliot Smith: Thanks fo shedding light on that bit about Caucasian guys not expecting to split 50/50 on everything. I honestly thought that was the case cos' I've never dated a white guy before and I thought he was acting like a whole lot of other white guys would.

 

Keenan there was a niggling doubt in my mind about the "rightness" of paying for the wedding present but I think he was genuinely shocked that I didn't offer and yet I included my name in the card for the couple. Which goes to show we might be on completely different wavelengths ( or planets!)

He says I'm being too Chinese about the money issue cos' Chinese girls expect to be supported even if they are earning good money. But he just made that assumption without communicating his concerns to me.

 

Caro33 golf club issue was brought up by me to him as an example of the disparity in the way he treated me and another girl wrt haggling over petty things like dinner bills and presents. The latter issue was because he actually didn't get me anything for my birthday and thought I was making a big fuss about nothing. Eventually he treated me to a weekend getaway but that was 2 days after he had gone on a holiday with his ex-gf. I told him it's not the price of a gift but the thought that counts but he just doesn't get it and says that was the problem he also faced with his previous gfs!

 

Scotcha: The golf clubs were bought as a present to another woman whom he was not interested in marrying or never went out with seriously becos' of relisious differences so he wasn't investing a relationship so to speak. He just bought it for her becos' he thought she would never be able to afford it.He says the reason why he is so interested on harping on the money issue is becos' he was interested in a long term relnship. He just thinks that I might expect him to support me for life, or my attitude with money will get worse with time or I might be ok now but change after marriage. All this sounds like paranoia or plain commitment phobia to me because everything I say seems to be hitting a brick wall and yet he called me selfish and couldn't give a single reason why he thought so and then said he was merely repeating what I said about myself a while back(I can't remember having said that). An dhe did apologise and admit he was selfish instead! I don't know why he is acting this way unless maybe he just wants out cos' he's met someone else and can't find a good enough reason...

[Batya33]

The way my boyfriend and I handle weddings - if it is his friend, he pays - for the gift, travel, hotel, etc and if it is my friend I pay. It works out roughly even. If I were first dating someone and he invited me to be his date at a wedding or similar event I would expect him to pay. However, I would offer to pay my share of the hotel room (but not of the gift).

[caro33]

It might not be another person, but the commitment issues in themselves though.

 

Like I suggested above, it does sound like he's grabbing for excuses as to why he doesn't want a future with you, and while it is interesting to analyse where he's coming from (and I certainly understand your need to comprehend all this) from an objective perspective the real thing for you to listen to here is that he is saying "no, not you". That's hurtful, I know, but it's also your signal to exit.

 

I saw a guy for ages who did this, actually I saw two. I spent a long time talking to them to get them to explain what they really meant, sweetly talking with them about whether their rationales made "sense". But in the end it didn't matter. They ended up leaving or not wanting something for non-reasons in the end: "it just doesn't feel right". When someone says things don't seem right and they aren't able to engage or they don't seem open to change, it's that that is the problem, not the reasons they end up coming up with.

[Mrs Elliott Smith]

Mrs Elliot Smith: Thanks fo shedding light on that bit about Caucasian guys not expecting to split 50/50 on everything. I honestly thought that was the case cos' I've never dated a white guy before and I thought he was acting like a whole lot of other white guys would.

 

 

 

Wow, how racist was THAT comment? You thought that it was a cultural issue because you thought that he was acting like other white guys "would".... real nice

[Jessica7887]

Oops, sorry if that came accross as sounding sweeping or racist. What I meant was I honestly thought that going Dutch was expected but it might have been ignorance on my part.

[Rabican]

He sounds like a jerk to me. Id tell him he could go and buy all the friends he wanted as many golf clubs as he could afford. Meanwhile, Im gone... bye bye.

[dopexile]

The fact that you didn't want to pay for a trip has nothing to do with being Asian whatsoever. I don't know if you're a cheapskate or not... but it's pretty inconsequential... it almost sounds racist.

 

Also he is 18 years older so... there's not really any reason for me to expend anymore energy pressing keys on my keyboard...

[Batya33]

Oops, sorry if that came accross as sounding sweeping or racist. What I meant was I honestly thought that going Dutch was expected but it might have been ignorance on my part.

 

That "all" "caucasian guys" have a certain approach to splitting the bill. I see - do all Asian men have a certain approach? If so, what is your basis for believing so?

[Jessica7887]

I really don't know as I have only gone out previously with guys who never asked to split the bill or asked me to pay for the date. But I always insisted on covering costs for meals, shows, travelling etc once we had been going out for some time. Even before we were sure we were going to go out steadily. The thing abt going Dutch I heard from my friends but they may have been wrong. Have nothing against this or against this attitude as I have done this before with him. Its a different situation in this case.But was really concerned that I was missing something in terms of a cultural difference like maybe he expected me to be the "ultra-independent" type who paid my way through the entire relationship till the end. Have nothing against white guys wrt this aspect. Was simply curious if I was missing something here.Seems like I have been mis-informed!

[Batya33]

I don't think women who pay their own way are necesarily "ultra-independent" - they may simply be the type who believe that letting a man pay means an obligation on their part, they may just like being the one who treats, or they may have weak interest in the guy and do not want him to spend money on them.