Borderline Personality Disorder

LostInMyThoughts · January 24, 2007

Hi,

My therapist thinks my girlfriend might suffer from Borderline Personality Disorder. I've talked a little bit with him about it, but I would really like to talk with people who know someone with BPD--even dated a person with it, or who have been diagnosed with it themselves.

If anyone would like to share their stories or insights, I would really appreciate it.

robowarrior · January 24, 2007

Its very simple, you shouldn't be in a relationship with someone who is mentally unstable. You going to a therapist questions me wether you are mentally stable yourself, if both of you are unstable its bound to be an unstable relationship because of the constant mood swings. However i don't like to go out from assumptions, but i would definitly have a psychiater determine if she suffers from BPD before making that conclusion. If its really the case, then to me it doesn't sound healthy for both of you to stay in a relationship with eachother.

lizziebee · January 24, 2007

Hi Lost-First, don't be so quick to 'diagnose' her with BPD...which is probably the most recent PC name for something else, like ADD, PMS, Manic Depression which is now called bi-polar I believe....she could just be having the mood swings that we all have on occasion. Which means some people are more sensitive than others and they digest information differently. I disagree with a shrink that does not even know this girl to give her such a frivolous title for whatever is ailing her. If you truly believe she needs professional help would you be able to broach the subject with her? I would not recommend that you tell her you and your shrink have already diagnosed her...I apologize if I have offended anyone but having worked for a shrinks office for many years I have seen a lot of pills being pushed for no reason with disastrous results.

arwen · January 24, 2007

I agree with lizzie, I think that your therapist might want to diagnose her in person before doing that based on what you shared with him (it just wouldn't give a sufficient image of how she is). A friend of mine has borderliner. There are numerous behavior types that are typical and the diagnosis is more or less based on a score of those behaviors (a person can have one typical way of behaving but not the others and thereforeeee not be borderliner).

Most clear in my friend are the following: outburst of rage, impulsive acts, dangerous sexual behavior (unsafe episodes with multiple partners she doesn't know), other risk taking behaviour, manipulative way of communicating with friends and even her therapist, depressions, moodswings. She tends to take things extremely personal. In the past if I would simply tell her about my relationship or job, she would accuse me of telling that to make it even more clear to her that she is not working etc. The friendship has been VERY hard in the past and it drained a lot of energy on my side. But she is a close friend to me, I love her to bits and I have found good ways to deal with the aspects of borderliner that used to affect our friendship.

Another friend of mine had a partner with that disorder, and she left him because he set fires in the house (for money), drove several cars into crashes, had terrible anger attacks (violent and I suspect also abusive towards her but she never said that).

I think that lizzie is also right about the 'quick' diagnosing. Even if she was under the care of your therapist, I myself have found that shrinks/therapists can really disagree. I had several ones, and one said I was bipolar while it is clear to me that I am certainly not. So take it with a grain of salt and for sure don't address this directly to your gf. If you are worried about her mental health, ask her how she feels about counselling or seeing a doctor. Then if she asks why, you can point out that you are worried about things and that you want her to be happy and healthy. Do not use the word borderliner unless she has had at least two specialists independently diagnose her as such.

Arwen

LostInMyThoughts · January 24, 2007

Thanks everyone for your input.

A few things: Just because a person is seeing a counselor/therapist/shrink doesn't mean they are mentally unstable. Saying things like that is bad and perpetuates this myth that if you see a shrink, something is terribly wrong with you. I would hate for someone who wants to seek help hear/read something like this and then decide against it because they don't want to be labled as "unstable." I know a great deal of people on this forum could benefit from seeing professional help. That doesn't mean there is anything "wrong" with them.

Secondly, even if you are seeking help, doesn't mean you have to avoid being in a meaninful relationship. And if you are "mentally unstable" and you are seeking help, chances are you'll be more aware of your own behavior that can sabotage a relationship.

Now back to the topic:

My counselor did meet my gf for one session. There was a bit of a confrontation between them. Last night, he felt that maybe she was a bit clingy, and that she might have BPD. From what I've read, what you've posted, and what he's said, she doesn't appear to show any of the destructive behaviors. That is, she doesn't engage in risky sex (she was a virgin before me), isn't prone to violent outbursts, doesn't cut on herself, does really well in school, and in the work place, and not very manipulative,

The few things that stick out, is her weird sleeping habits, her tendency to do a lot of exercise, her wanting to hold hands a lot, and me being her first boyfriend. She also gets really emotional when she feels rejected. She also says she "gets what she wants" a lot.

What really concerned me was hearing about how BPD's will inevitably sabotage their relationships. I don't like being hurt, and I know I can't prevent it, but I do want to take some precautions.

He said, and along with you all--and I agree, not to bring this up with her. I was just freaking out that I was heading into a relationship that has no chance of working out.

We've talked a bit about therapy, specifically how much I've benefitted from it, and she knows (verbally conceeded) that she could benefit from therapy as well (you can read one of my earlier posts about finding an ENA like place for her mom).

What I really wanted to get was input from people who have delt with BPD, and from the osunds of it, either my gf doesn't have it, or shows milder instances of it.

Thanks again!

shellshocked · January 24, 2007

It is V E R Y hard to be in a relationship with someone

who has BPD. I was in one for over 5 years.

And it was HELL.

I've read just about every book on the subject.

Been to every website/online support group.

I suggest you do some research and learn all that

you can.

Here's a good place to start:

link removed

There's also a book that I suggest you get.

It's called: link removed

By Randi Kreger and Paul Mason

THIS was a TOTAL lifesaver for me.

If nothing else....Please get this book. I can't stress it enough.

If you would like any other information, please feel free to PM me anytime.

arwen · January 25, 2007

The few things that stick out, is her weird sleeping habits, her tendency to do a lot of exercise, her wanting to hold hands a lot, and me being her first boyfriend. She also gets really emotional when she feels rejected. She also says she "gets what she wants" a lot.

It is the 'I get what I want' part that really struck me here. I visited my friend a few weeks back and this is exactly what she said (she also said it before but it just occurred to me that time that she says that a lot). She also told me she is manipulating her counsellor to avoid certain topics. I was surprised, since she WANTS to be helped, why sabotage the therapy? I asked her and she couldn't answer me but she was thankful I brought it up.

Again, if she wants help, she should get it asap to get a good diagnosis. Being clingy is not symptomatic of BPD. In fact none of the symptoms are EXCLUSIVE for BPD. As I said, it's a certain score on a behavior list that is associated with what they call BPD. I am happy that you agree not to tell your gf this. I think that if you love her, you should just try to encourage her to go to counselling. Things may work out just fine; meanwhile I think that the book shellshocked mentions could be a great one if she indeed has BPD.

Arwen

Juliana · January 25, 2007

Borderline Personality Disorder is not that easy to diagnose. I am Borderline. I would be curious as to why your psychiatrist would feel that they needed to provide a label for your girlfriend.

If you are having problems with a relationship, it's not actually crucial to have a diagnosis for your partner. Either the relationship works, or it doesn't. If it doesn't, then the important thing is for you to know what you want, not to try to figure out what's "wrong with" the other person. Often, if the relationship is struggling, people can be tempted to label the other person as a way of reducing their power in the relationship and justifying actions against them. It's a very damaging thing that your therapist is inviting you to do. Imagine if your girlfriend came home from her therapy, and announced that you were fundamentally, basically damaged as a human being. This is not a good thing.

The reason why this is an unhealthy thing for you to do is that it actually takes power away from you, and gives it to the "victim." Now, everything could be better if the "victim" of the disorder could get better. Alternatively, if the relationship fails, it's not because of anything you did or didn't do -- again you are powerless and effectiveless in the relationship -- it's all the fault of the disorder the other person had. This is not a good direction to go in in your therapy; your therapy needs to be about giving power back to you, focusing on what you can do. Whether or not your girlfriend is a Borderline is really neither here nor there.

Therapists who get involved with other family members are crossing boundary lines that put them at risk for harming their actual patient. Your girlfriend probably feels that your therapist was being overcontrolling, and she may be right. Therapists are not gods, and they can and frequently do make mistakes. Your therapy shouldn't be about your girlfriend, it should be about you -- what do you need, what do you want.

Ironically, as a Borderline, I have had great relationships, and have been married once, never divorced. The diagnosis doesn't actually mean that your girlfriend cannot function in a relationship. My Borderline symptoms seem to mainly hurt me. However, one meeting, and conversations with you, do not allow your therapist to make this diagnosis. Your description of her does not make her sound borderline to me. The classic indicators aren't there. Your therapist should not have made this diagnosis. Forget about it, and move on to work on your own life, not your girlfriend.

LostInMyThoughts · January 25, 2007

Juliana, I couldn't disagree with you more.

First, I wrote that my therapist "thinks she might suffer from" not my therapist "knows that she is a BPD." I wanted to find out more information about the subject so I could talk with him somemore about it.

Secondly, it's absurd to think that a therapist works with the patient alone, without ever considering the role family and friends play in a patients life. My therapist thinks my dad is an abusive alcoholic, who played a detrimental part in my upbringing. He's never met my dad, but does that mean his diagnosis is wrong (both in the sense of being right, and in that its crossing a boundary)?

Obviously my gf is an important part of my life, so to me it makes sense to talk about her.

Knowing issues with a partner is important. For instance, if you knew your partner was a codependent person, it would make you aware that they were prone to give up their needs. Now, it is their responsibility to take care of themselves, but if you care about this person enuff to want to make things work, it seems like you would make the effort to ensure that they are looking out for themselves.

I think also knowing that yah, she is prone to sabotaging relationships (as apparently BPD's tend to do) would be beneficial.

This idea that things in a relationship either "work" or they "don't work" is further from the truth. It takes effort to maintain a strong and healthy relationship.

I'm not looking for an excuse for her behavior. I just want to understand it. From the sounds of things, she doesn't seem to suffer from BPD. Then again I'm not a trained therapist, and neither is anyone else responding on this thread. The only trained therapist opinion that i've heard has been mine, so clearly thats one I'm going to listen to.

We ended the last session knowing that we will pick up and talk about this issue again during the next session.

Juliana · January 25, 2007

Lost, you'll have to excuse me if I don't immediately grasp the difference between saying that they think someone suffers from Borderline personality disorder, and saying that someone has it. Given that the minimum number of times a therapist needs to see someone who has borderline personality disorder is three or more before they can offer a diagnosis with any kind of certainty, I am secure in my opinion that this was an inappropriate thing for your therapist to do.

My point is, you don't approach relationships from the perspective of labelling someone and then deciding what to do, particularly if that label is coming second-hand.

Typically, therapists do not tell you what to think of other people, whether they are your father, or your girlfriend, or whomever. They encourage you to form your own opinions and express them. The therapist is not supposed to tell you your father is an abusive alcoholic; they are supposed to provide an environment where you can come to that conclusion yourself -- or not.

Right now, what is happening is that you are telling your therapist about your life, and it sounds like your therapist is telling you what to think. That may not be a good idea.

When you are talking with your therapist about your girlfriend, wouldn't it be more productive to talk about her behaviour and how you feel about that, then speculate on possible mental illnesses she has? Maybe you could consider how you want to react to things that she actually is doing, rather than worry about the possibility of her sabotaging the relationship at some point in the future because she may have a personality disorder.

LostInMyThoughts · January 25, 2007

Perhaps you should sit in our sessions, or better yet start your own practice as you clearly know what is more beneficial for me, than my counselor does.

My therapist hasn't told me what to think. He said "I think she might be BPD."

Nor have I written about what we talk about in our sessions, but perhaps you are clairevoiyant and know what goes on.

During my last session, I mentioned how my gf and I fight more than I'm used too, and I wondered if it was because she's different than my previous girlfriends. My counselor said he and his partner fought like cats and dogs their first few years. Then I went into detail about some of the fights, and how rejection is a common theme. Then he mentioned that she might be BPD. He explained a little bit about what behaviors people with BPD suffer, and I mentioned some of her behaviors: such as being clingy, pushing people away when she found out they liked her, etc.

I asked what that meant, bottomline, and he said that most BPD's end up sabotaging their own relationships for whatever reason. This bothered me, because if she is BPD, and doesn't seek help, will I eventually get hurt?

As for the labeling, if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, well what must it be?

If you go back and reread my first post all i asked was for insight from people who have delt with BPD, either in relationships or those who suffer from it. I didn't ask for people to question whether or not I should be in a relationship; the quality of my therapy, or the methods in which i conduct my life or deal with my relationships.

Thank you for letting me know that it is possible to have BPD and still maintain a healthy relationship.

itsallgrand · January 26, 2007

Lost, I hope it's ok, I'm going to be straight with you here.

Perhaps you have read or perhaps you have not, but recently (within the last 6 months) I received a diagnosis for BPD.

This specific diagnosis took months to make, and even then he wanted to make sure.

It is a heavy 'label' to place on a person, and it kinda makes me cringe to see some of the responses in this thread! Not specifically what you are saying, Lost, but this general vibe that BPD is 'just thrown on anybody and makes a person totally unstable and unfit for relationships'. (Again, not pointing the finger at anyone for saying this specificially, just pointing out that there is REAL prejudice when people learn that one has been diagnosed with BPD).

To me, this is not light stuff at all! I spent years and years trying to find out 'what in the world is going on with me?!'.

I have engaged in some absolutely CRAZY behavior that has put my own life in danger and .....well, there are years of my life that are like bad TV shows, Lost.

I will be honest - I do question your therapist's judgement in being so quick to throw that idea out there to you about your gf!

What you must be thinking and worrying now!

She would need a proper diagnosis. Very very much an important point!

I really just feel you should not worry about this comment by your therapist mentioning BPD.

Pressed, I'm sure he/she would indeed state "I do not know. She would need a clinical, looong diagnosis.

One trouble at a time. It does honestly sound like your gf, in my mind, has real problems that are worthy of your attention and wondering "Is she longterm relationship material and what is going on with this woman?"

But BPD....here is where I go real straight...no, it sounds like she is more of a run of the mill late bloomer (immature? spoiled?).

Absolutely no offence meant. Don't know her, obviously. But that is MY impression here. She may just be a brat, Lost!

sweetharmony · February 23, 2007

i want to say, that I think it was irresponsible for a therapist to even instill this idea in your head. A therapist is not a doctor and cannot make a diagnosis. good luck.

AntiLove_SuperStar · February 23, 2007

FAO RoboWarrier:

I'm mentally unstable, and no one has ever dumped me. Its not healthy, but some craziness gives an alluring je ne sais quoi.

Crazyaboutdogs · February 26, 2007

One of the hallmarks of BPD is "splitting"....in other words, a person close to the BPD can be the greatest thing since sliced bread one day, and a vile, horrible person the next day. People with BPD think in extremes...there is no middle of the road, no shades of grey...everything is black or white. BPDs are afraid of being abandonned and thereforeeee get very upset when a person they are close to has to go somewhere without them. BPDs are very controlling people and can be very irrational. Many people with personalilty disorders have more than one, so sometimes behaviours which don't fit one personality disorder may fit another one. A close member of my family has hallmarks of both BPD and Passive Aggressive Personality Disorder (PAPD is not officially a personality disorder according to the DSM, it is listed in the Appendix). Sometimes coupled with BPD is eating disorders. All having to do with control issues.

AntiLove_SuperStar · February 26, 2007

The one diagnosis I DONT seem to have, eerily sounds the most likely.

Sorry to intrude, but this may have been significant for me personally.

ladyspirit · February 27, 2007

I don't even know if I should be participating here, as I don't want to claim I know "everything", but I work in a psychiatric hospital, and, I dated

(before I started to work in a psych hospital) a man with bipolar disorder. Anyway...all to say I know quite a bit about them. Juliana, good advice. I think it's scary that this doctor hinted she may suffer from borderline p.d. Just so you guys know, it is the most bastardized category of diagnoses: it's over-used, and actually losing credibility as a valid diagnosis in the psychiatric world. As soon as someone feels insecure, has mood swings, may be clingy, etc, the label pops up. There actually may be a ton of other rational reasons why your gf is feeling this way, such as she's in a bad place in her life, she's having PMS, she is young and inexperienced, etc etc.

It's dangerous to label so quickly. What this doctor did is irresponsible in my opinion, even though you say he didn't give a definite diagnosis. What does that change? You're on the site questionning whether or not he's right, (which is a good thing) so this doctor knows the weight of his influence.

Zeitgeist · March 19, 2008

I realize I'm jumping in a bit late here, but I feel I'd like to add my thoughts to this thread and because it feels a bit like people are being a bit overly judgemental of LostInMyThoughts.

First off, the OP never posted enough information about how long he's known his therapist, how much information he's conveyed to him (or her?), or the counselor's credentials. So really, *none* of you know whether or not this counselor is qualified to make this judgment, thus, you really can't say whether or not he should be raising the possibility. And I do not believe there is something inherently wrong with doing that. I'll get to why.

I used to be a poster and frequent reader of link removed one of the big BPD websites. I came accross it when I was looking for how to deal with an ex-gf. I typed in some of her behavior patterns into Google, and voila, this term I wasn't fully familiar with popped up repeatedly. After more investigation, I realized that not only did she have some big time BPD traits, so did my mother. The revelation hit me like a ton of bricks. And I don't need a qualified psychiatrist or counselor to diagnose either one of them. I'm not "qualified", and yet I'm pretty damn good at spotting BPD traits now. I didn't care whether or not they fit the DSM IV category 70%, 90% or 100%. That wasn't the point. The point was that I needed to find coping mechanisms. Discovering this disorder was a huge relief because #1 I realized that I was far from the only person who had been on the receiving end of a BPD relationship, #2 found ways to cope with it, and #3 realized my own part in enabling the borderline traits. I emphasize #3 because it was a HUGE burden off my shoulders to realize that I didn't have to shoulder ALL of the blame and yet I still recognized and accepted responsibility in the part that I played. Apparently, I have a personality type that draws BPD's, and am likewise drawn to them.

From what I've read of the OP's posts, all he's trying to do is get some understanding here and figure out how to deal with a difficult relationship, not label his GF. I think most people who make enough effort into making a difficult relationship work possess sufficient insight to realize that personality disorders are a spectrum of behavioral presentations that are merely a matter of degrees, and that all of us exhibit such traits *some* of the time. But whether or not his GF's behaviors meet the DSM IV criteria for BPD DOES NOT matter. There's a problem in the relationship -that's what matters. Even if she only has SOME of the traits, the coping mechanisms are the same.

Here's an analogy: if a family member drinks only once a month, but drinks heavily and then gets out of control and says things that cause psychological damage to the other family members, does it really matter whether or not he "fits" the diagnostic criteria of an alcoholic? It's a problem, and it needs to be addressed. Focusing on whether the diagnosis is appropriate or not is getting away from the real issue.

As for the OP, I wish you luck and hope you have had some success by now in finding ways to deal with your relationship problems.

lillie · March 19, 2008

I was a member of on an online support group specially for people with BPD & bipolar. One of the links they posted was very informative if you would like to take a look..

link removed

Crazyaboutdogs · March 19, 2008

I absolutely agree with you. Finding out information like this is more about trying to understand why a person behaves in such a manner so that you are better able to deal with it, manage your own emotions when dealing with that other person's behaviours, and just put things into perspective. It really isn't about labeling them. Having an understanding of these kinds of personality issues actually helps you cope with people's shenanigans in general because lots of people exhibit certain of these personality traits in different contexts.

Censored · March 19, 2008

It is V E R Y hard to be in a relationship with someone
who has BPD. I was in one for over 5 years.
And it was HELL.

I've read just about every book on the subject.
Been to every website/online support group.

I suggest you do some research and learn all that
you can.

Here's a good place to start:

link removed

link removed

There's also a book that I suggest you get.
It's called: link removed
By Randi Kreger and Paul Mason

THIS was a TOTAL lifesaver for me.
If nothing else....Please get this book. I can't stress it enough.

If you would like any other information, please feel free to PM me anytime.

My mother suffers from BPD. Or should I say my dad suffers because of it, as did all of us kids. The book is well worth the investment.

itsallgrand · March 20, 2008

Well, good post Zeitgeist.

The funny (not ha ha funny) thing about the sites listed on this thread are more useful to people who tend to get involved with those with BPD traits, than they actually are for those struggling (who are better off with an excellent psychiatrist).

Judgmental? Nah. Perhaps defensive, yes. And not always helpful the concerns.

Perhaps asking those who struggle with it are not the ones to be asking, eh.

jenny4141 · January 27, 2009

Sorry to butt in. But I think Lost just wanted to inquire about BPD. He wanted people to share stories and insights. I don't think his post was asking for anyone's negative opinion on his situation or his therapist's thoughts. get a life

JoeHill · June 25, 2009

I recently took a break from dating my girlfriend. We had huge fights that seemed to drop out of nowhere and I felt like I was falling apart. During this time I also needed to complete an application to graduate school, find work and seek mental professional help myself.

I've done two of the three but still find myself looking for work. I saw her again recently for coffee and made a judgment error to raise the idea that she could potentially have engaged in splitting. The conversation lasted all of five minutes. She accused my therapist of being unprofessional and issuing a diagnosis for her, which he didn't do. She also said I went to therapy to fix her, which wasn't the case.

Splitting made sense. On many occasions she flew into rages over small things, like an exchange in which she praised a book and I then said the author's prose left me hungry for more descriptive language. She said I thought the book was stupid, therefore she was stupid and wasn't smart enough for me. I tried to reason with her and explain that wasn't the case, but a huge fight soon followed.

I brought up the fact that I’ve enjoyed every book she’s recommended, and it was probably true that she’s a very astute reader who found details in the book that I completely missed. Something else soon convinced her there could be no explanation other explanation for my remarks about the book than an attempt to debase her. She went home to her own apartment accross town well after midnight.

A few weeks ago I did the same thing after my forgetting the names of her estranged half-sisters who live overseas. My forgetting the names of these people, who I have never met and rarely come up in conversation, convinced her I never listen to her and don’t care about her.

These types of episodes, beginning with a conviction that I am out to put her down, began to happen with greater frequency.

She asked me on numerous previous cases to uncover reasons for our fights. I understand all fights are part of a dynamic that involves two people, and I tried to express this point of view many times. She had also said on previous occasions that her temper was out of control, and that she wanted to address this in therapy. My hope was that the therapist she ultimately engaged could use this thought as something to explore and delve more deeply into, or eliminate through careful evaluation.

When we were together I had no idea to explain her behavior or understand our flawed dynamic. When she reacted in an illogical fashion I tried to respond with reason and soon grew frustrated.

During the break from our relationship I began to research borderline symptoms and ran some of these ideas by my therapist. He said it was in the realm of possibilities but didn’t diagnose her. Obviously, it’s not my job to diagnose her, and in doing so I may have crossed a huge boundary. The idea when we took a break several months ago was for both of us enter therapy, and regroup over the summer when we’re stable enough to take care of ourselves, and hopefully each other as well.

I am in therapy to work on my own issues and admittedly should keep it that way. Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.

JoeHill · June 25, 2009