_Jaffa_ Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 Hypothetical question. Say you had taken a large quantity of pills/done something to yourself and locked all your doors/windows ect. and someone somehow found out what you had done/become concerned u might have done something and called the police/ambulance/whatever. Are they legally allowed to break in to your house? Are they allowed to remove you from your house even if you say no? Link to comment
Newo Ikkin Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 Thats a very good question. I too would like to know the answer, for curiosities sake. I guess the authorities would be able to, yes. You see it on TV. But if it was a concerned friend? Would that in fact be another story? Link to comment
_Jaffa_ Posted January 17, 2007 Author Share Posted January 17, 2007 See I thought they couldn't break in to your house unless you were unconscious and not able to consent. But I dunno if it's different for people that are still considered minors or whatever. Link to comment
Newo Ikkin Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 I'm about to go investigate...*trots off* Link to comment
Newo Ikkin Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 "While the police do not always have the authority to stop the suicide attempt itself, in some countries including some jurisdictions in the US, killing oneself is illegal. In most cases law enforcement does have the authority to have people involuntarily committed to mental health wards. Usually a court order is required, but if an officer feels the person is in immediate danger she can order an involuntary commitment without waiting for a court order. Such commitments are for a limited period, such as 72 hours – which is intended to be enough time for a doctor to see the person and make an evaluation. After this initial period, a hearing is held in which a judge can decide to order the person released or can extend the treatment time. Afterwards, the court is kept informed of the person's condition and can release the person when they feel the time is right to do so. Legal punishment for suicide attempts is extremely rare." Thats all I could get from good ol' Wikipedia. Link to comment
Heretic Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 There's this thing called the Good Samaritan Law... Basically it assumes that someone who tries to save a life does so with your best interests in mind so the law protects them. It's not 100% protection but it's decent enough. Basically they will show up and say they have a tip that you have illegal drugs... then they can bust down your door and arrest you. Best case scenario they will show up and knock. If you respond and say don't come in they will sit outside and keep asking. The moment you don't respond they will then break the door down. If you aren't conscious enough to respond they will pump your stomach and dope you up. Either way they will do what they can to save your life. That's their job. Link to comment
_Jaffa_ Posted January 17, 2007 Author Share Posted January 17, 2007 So they have to wait until you're unconscious before they can break in? Link to comment
Heretic Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 Unless they have proof you're doing something illegal, yes. Again if you don't respond they will assume you're in trouble and they will try to save you. Link to comment
Heretic Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 Such a shame. The real shame is that if the don't follow those rules they can lose their jobs simply for trying to do their job too well. There is a very fine line that must be very hard to walk in cases like this. Link to comment
_Jaffa_ Posted January 17, 2007 Author Share Posted January 17, 2007 What about if you write a letter stating you don't want to be saved? Like a living will or dnr thing? What can they do then? Link to comment
Newo Ikkin Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 The real shame is that if the don't follow those rules they can lose their jobs simply for trying to do their job too well. There is a very fine line that must be very hard to walk in cases like this. I do see what you're saying there. Link to comment
Mythical_Suicide Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 What about if you write a letter stating you don't want to be saved? Like a living will or dnr thing? What can they do then? Here in North Carolina atleast, dont know if its the same elsewhere but a DNR or LIving will does not constitute with suicide thereforeeee they still have to try and save you. A DNR is in the case of a natural death or being brain dead, etc. My best friend, who is also an EMT his opinion on it is if it's a suicide attempt it;s all the more reason to save someones life because that could be the biggest mistake they make. About your original question, yes they have the right to break your door down if you do not answer you are considered a "barricaded person" and pose a risk to yourself and others. Link to comment
RayKay Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 What about if you write a letter stating you don't want to be saved? Like a living will or dnr thing? What can they do then? A living will or DNR does not apply to a case of you trying to commit suicide. Those are orders for when you are incapacitated or seriously ill. Honestly, while you "may" be able to have a case of unjustifiable entry in some jurisdictions, they are also often allowed to use force if they know you are in danger (self inflicted or not) or committing a crime. They can break in even if you "respond" if they still have knowledge you are in danger too, in many places at least. Link to comment
_Jaffa_ Posted January 17, 2007 Author Share Posted January 17, 2007 Whatever happened to human rights? Link to comment
RayKay Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 How is saving someone not in the spirit of human rights? I know our legal system is different, including our property laws against search/seizure and so on....but our Charter of Rights and Freedoms does not put the individual above EVERYTHING. Law and regulations that are meant to protect within justifiable limits are valid, and that includes stepping in if someone tries to kill themself. Often because it is also a slippery slope argument, that has social policy triumph over the individual cases in every instance. It really is about trying to get help. I read once a study of several people whom tried to commit suicide by jumping and miraculously lived, and they all said that as they were going down, they regretted they had done it. Often when saving someone from suicide, it is giving them a second chance at life...I believe that is the general principle anyway. There are alternatives. Link to comment
Mythical_Suicide Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 How can one consider suicide part of the rights of humans? Its a selfish act of mankind. And as RayKay said, i've attempted suicide before and you knoww hat I am so thankful it never worked because I wouldnt be here today to enjoy my son. Many people have the same regrets adn when one is saved its as though you just got a second chance at life and maybe it can help one change their ways of life and views of life. Link to comment
_Jaffa_ Posted January 17, 2007 Author Share Posted January 17, 2007 How is saving someone not in the spirit of human rights? What about the person that doesn't want to be saved? Not in that way anyway. What about the person that can't be saved? What about the person that just wants peace? Breaking into their house and "deciding" what's best for them isn't in their human interest. How do they know what is best? They don't know anything about that person. What if they then hear that person's story and think "well actually,I'd probably do the same fecking thing" Link to comment
Mythical_Suicide Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 /they aren't deciding what is best. They are doing their job. Nothing is worth dying over.. One may say at this very moment I wont to die but if they have someone there to save them they may rethink that and realize what they'd be missing had they went through with the suicide. Link to comment
_Jaffa_ Posted January 17, 2007 Author Share Posted January 17, 2007 Its a selfish act of mankind. Why is it selfish? Link to comment
RayKay Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 /they aren't deciding what is best. They are doing their job. Nothing is worth dying over.. One may say at this very moment I wont to die but if they have someone there to save them they may rethink that and realize what they'd be missing had they went through with the suicide. Exactly. It is not up to them to decide whom is wanting to be saved, or worth saving. That in itself would be against human rights! As an example, what if they just saw someone trying to commit suicide - but more out of a cry for help - and said "they aren't worth saving, I won't try". Meanwhile the person dies hours later because they thought someone would come and see them.....see if someone cared. It is not their job to determine if someone is deserving, worthy or wants to be rescued or not. Link to comment
Mythical_Suicide Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 Suicide is the cowards way of dealing with the problems that life hands out. It's a selfish thing to do, one who commits suicide is only thinking of making things better for theirselves not about the family they're leaving behind or the people who have to clean up their bodies or bury them or tell their family members that their loved one is dead. How is it not selfish? Link to comment
_Jaffa_ Posted January 17, 2007 Author Share Posted January 17, 2007 That's a pretty generalised view. Some people don't have anyone. Physically or emotionally. Or both. And the people that have to "clean up" chose to get into that kind of job, as did the people that have to inform relatives and thereforeeee already know the risks and stressors of that job. Link to comment
Mythical_Suicide Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 No, the ones who chose to clean up and inform did not choose to get into a job to clean up after such a selfish person who is going to commit suicide because of a problem. The ones who chose to inform relatives, while yes they know what they're getting into do you really think they want to tell a mother that her child has killed him/her self? No!. Everyone has a relative whether they are close or not so that is an inconclusive argument. Link to comment
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