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There is no hope for the ugly, shy guy


Kevin T
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Well, Luke... if I hit the age of 30 and am STILL single... it means God has let me down. Big time. And I'm not down with that. So I'll be throwing in the towel, at that point. Meaning, age 30 and still single and disgruntled... well, I'll won't be seeing age 31.

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You're taking the easy way out, and you damn well know it.

 

You want to quit the fight? So be it. Don't you dare expect any sympathy, though. Simply because...you do have a chance, and you can succeed, but you're choosing not to.

 

Just keep plugging on like the rest of us..and if on your death bed you can honestly say you never stopped trying but never achieved your goal - I'll give you a coke.

 

Come back in 7 years, THEN lecture me.

 

When you get to be 25 and are still struggling to keep your head afloat, then you can tell me about how this "all my fault."

 

Sorry, I didn't choose the piss-poor genes that I got stuck with.

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I won't follow others' lead. Both of my parents ended up remarrying people they don't like and are stuck in dead-end, unhappy marriages.

 

My mother always tell me: "Don't settle like I did."

 

And I agree. Hell, my dad married his current wife because he was "lonely." It's so sad.

 

Sure, I'd rather be dead than alone... almost, but I'd much rather be alone (and "whining" about it, Beec) than with someone I didn't like/love.

 

Cheers.

 

I refuse to follow others' lead as well. Especially because of my mother; she broke up with one of her Ex's because he "didn't care about the redecorations of the house". Another reason is because in both sides of my family, divorce runs rampant (including my parents) and I'm hoping it doesn't happen to my brother who is hitched and has a baby as well.

 

Not only that, but I see many of my "friends" acting like something is wrong with me when they're the ones who are dealing with break-ups and complaining about their girlfriends all the time.

 

Thus far, my lonliness and aspiration to "not settle" appears to be one of the best choices I've ever made.

 

Nice posts, btw. You make a lot of points that make me glad. They support my choices in this particular facet of life.

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Cheers.

 

I refuse to follow others' lead as well. Especially because of my mother; she broke up with one of her Ex's because he "didn't care about the redecorations of the house". Another reason is because in both sides of my family, divorce runs rampant (including my parents) and I'm hoping it doesn't happen to my brother who is hitched and has a baby as well.

 

Not only that, but I see many of my "friends" acting like something is wrong with me when they're the ones who are dealing with break-ups and complaining about their girlfriends all the time.

 

Thus far, my lonliness and aspiration to "not settle" appears to be one of the best choices I've ever made.

 

Nice posts, btw. You make a lot of points that make me glad. They support my choices in this particular facet of life.

 

 

Well......

 

I'm not single because I want to be.

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Well, Luke... if I hit the age of 30 and am STILL single... it means God has let me down. Big time. And I'm not down with that. So I'll be throwing in the towel, at that point. Meaning, age 30 and still single and disgruntled... well, I'll won't be seeing age 31.

 

 

Well, I was 24 y/o too at some point, just like your self, and guess what, I'm 30 y/o now, and so you will be too.

 

On the bright side, I've always had a 'special friend', although not a gf, it still was better than nothing. Do you have a special friend to KT, as in a girl you may not be totally into, but there may be potential for something if you pursued it?

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*shakes head*

 

I'm not as patient as you. I won't stand for another 5 years of this hell.

 

Seriously.

 

And no, to answer your question.

 

And wait, you have that 18 year old girlfriend, don't you? I'm not saying her age isn't a problem, but it's nothing you can't overcome. I'll tell you, as much as I love and value my mother and her opinion, if she forbade me to see someone (at my age), I'd blatantly ignore her advice.

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I'm still waiting for a response from the guy (I presume it was a male) who told me to change, to see if he has a girlfriend.

 

Because, for the shy guy who looks like Eric Foreman from That 70s' Show, he doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell with teh ladies.

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What's wrong with Eric?

 

It's not so much what's "wrong" with him, but it's him compared to the other characters. Take Fez for example; compare them both, and who looks more "pathetic"?

 

Anyways, yeah, being skinny and unmasculine (as both characters are) with dull skin tone and without ripped quads, abs, biceps... etc. etc. etc. doesn't really help aide confidence in most cases.

 

"aye aye, Captain Obvious!!"

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Kevin T, would you mind awfully giving me a link to a picture of you, so I can equate to what you're talking about?. I could join on of the POV's here and give some reasoning either way, but it's useless until I have all the facts in place.

 

On the face of it it sounds like you and me have a lot in common, mate

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Go over the fact that you are alone and always will be?

 

Okay.........

 

Done!

 

My, wasn't THAT simple? If only I had known it was so easy, I'd have done so YEARS ago! Give me a break.

 

May I paraphrase your post? Too bad, I'm doing it anyway:

 

"I'm tired of listening to you. Please stop posting, shut up and go away.

 

Thanks."

 

No Kevin, I'm not tired of you posting, I'm tired of you not realizing that it's your perception of things and unwillingness to listen to others that have told you many times that the things you complain of can be changed, one only have to want to do it and then seek out how. You have been given some of the how or, at leastr, where to find out how. But, you don't wish to use that information, and instead, you post to vent and whine. Whining is not very attractive you know. As far as attraction, it's worse than covering yourself in manure.

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It's not so much what's "wrong" with him, but it's him compared to the other characters. Take Fez for example; compare them both, and who looks more "pathetic"?

 

Anyways, yeah, being skinny and unmasculine (as both characters are) with dull skin tone and without ripped quads, abs, biceps... etc. etc. etc. doesn't really help aide confidence in most cases.

 

"aye aye, Captain Obvious!!"

 

Well said.

 

Point proven, thank you.

 

Kevin T, would you mind awfully giving me a link to a picture of you, so I can equate to what you're talking about?. I could join on of the POV's here and give some reasoning either way, but it's useless until I have all the facts in place.

 

On the face of it it sounds like you and me have a lot in common, mate

 

Love to... if I could get a more recent pic uploaded. I'm working on it at the moment, but don't expect much.

 

Besides, you're a guy, so what you think of me that way, means nothing. lol

 

As I said, though, I'll see what I can do. If it works, I'll get back to you in a PM... maybe.

 

Kevin T.. no i dont have a girlfriend but before you go "Well see that proves getting rid of shyness does nothing, i might as well not bother trying", let me tell you that I have never felt more comfortable around girls. I talk to hot girls now, I flirt with them and I even asked one out. Since i beat social anxiety i am more confident with people in general than i have ever been before and believe me it feels great. like anything though you have to give it time, you have to always stay hopeful, because there is nothing to lose by having this attitude and a lot to gain. and dont try and say that attitude does not attract women again because that is the biggest load of rubbish. buy a book on overcoming social anxiety, and start trying out the advice it gives. when you start to make progress this will begin to change your attitude, and when you are positive and act like you really believe in yourself, results will come, if you give it time. heck youve got a lot of it left in your life so you might as well. this is all there is to it. a more positive attitude will also help you forget about your looks which, even if they are as bad as you say they are, you can do nothing about. go out there and try harder

 

"Why try when you know you will fail?"

 

I just see little value in it. Sorry, I'm kind of lazy that way. Most smart people are lazy, you know.

 

And I'm not saying it didn't HELP you; clearly it did. But even the fact that you didn't meet anyone says to me that it may not be worthwhile. Talking to "hot" girls and having a significant other are two very different animals.

No Kevin, I'm not tired of you posting, I'm tired of you not realizing that it's your perception of things and unwillingness to listen to others that have told you many times that the things you complain of can be changed, one only have to want to do it and then seek out how. You have been given some of the how or, at leastr, where to find out how. But, you don't wish to use that information, and instead, you post to vent and whine. Whining is not very attractive you know. As far as attraction, it's worse than covering yourself in manure.

 

Just saying how I perceived it. My mistake (I guess...)

 

But I challenge what you are saying. I acknowledge that being shy is definitely not a good thing, and fear will only (and always) hold me back (and that applies to ANY area of life). Those are, indeed, facts. However, they are also extremely difficult to overcome... especially in the space of a night. Rome, etc. You get the idea.

 

I'm not making excuses, but pointing out a valid statement.

 

And something else: Sure, whining is grievously unattractive. But who am I trying to "attract" online here, anyway? No one. So thereforeeee, I can "whine" here all I please (until I get banned for overtly "whining"). I have never ONCE said that I "whine" or complain about my woes in the company of women, because I don't. That would be about a productive as you said, actually. Even I'm not that stupid.

 

I wish to correct something. You said that the things I talk about can be changed. Yes, and no. I can work on the shyness thing... will it change? God only knows. I can do little about being sensitive, but such is life. I am who I am, that way. But even becoming the most social extrovert (which has never really been me anyway) isn't going to fix everything. That is my point. I loathe repeating myself, yet that's all I ever seem to do: If looks didn't matter, then I do not believe I'd find myself in this boat. We need to open up our eyes and accept that looks (which are something you cannot change) do matter, and regardless of how much one may act (or even genuinely be) "confident" it won't change their entire romantic standpoint by itself. In regards to faith, that is another area which will not change; though admittably by my own decision on that. I won't compromise what I believe in for some woman. Not worth it.

 

Maybe in internet land, where everybody seems to exist, looks don't matter and all that matters is one's "attitude;" nothing more. But in the real world, where people do exist, looks certainly matter. This is absolutely true among women I encounter frequently. It amazes me that people who have never met me claim to know me and my situation better than I do... yet they have no idea what I'm talking about.

 

Just because the majority says I'm wrong, doesn't necessarily mean that I am, about this. Most of you guys tell me I need to change (which I don’t fully disagree with), but provide no actual evidence that what you are saying is true, and just assume that I should listen because ‘we know better.’ Hmm…

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And I came up with one answer. Has to be the looks. People may say no, but I beg to differ. I can't be anything else. If women approach men these days, then shyness should not matter.

Yep.

 

It can't possibly be that you're probably the most cynical person on this forum and that attitude likely comes off of you in waves as you complain about nobody wanting to be with you.

 

It can't possibly be the huge amount of desperation in your tone.

 

It can't possibly be your insistence that you're ugly, even when people tell you, repeatedly, that you're not. That couldn't possibly annoy people and make them want to just stop dealing with you.

 

Get over yourself. Do you honestly believe that only "hot" people can find meaningful relationships? Look around, there are many couples out there that probably don't fit the common definition of hot but are quite happy being with each other.

 

But then, you probably already knew that. In my opinion, your insistence that it's your looks that are driving people away is just denial. Denial that it's your attitude that needs a serious readjustment (and possibly whatever other mental issues that could be causing your attitude), or you really will end up alone.

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so, just read this thread... i'll say that i agree with you a bit more than others do... of course people consider looks, talk about looks, etc., and your age group is definitely 'generally' more focused on that aspect. and, there are people out there (don't know your case, kt) that don't have physical features that the mass opinion consider "hot" (oh how i loathe that word ).

 

i also see that you do agree that there are things you could do, attitude-wise. so you aren't arguing that point, but you're arguing that the physical realities will still be there. true, they will.

 

so anyway, i guess i just wondered what you wanted from posting? just to vent? find some agreement with your situation (like a few of the guys who chimed in have done), which makes you feel at least a bit better to be understood and not all alone it your percieved situation? or to make people admit that they are responsible for hurting you because they are in society? make people admit some wrongdoing? looking for validation for your suicide talk?? i simply wanted to ask what you were looking for from posting so maybe you wouldn't find yourself in an adversarial/argumentative postition.

 

so, lets say i agree with you... on all points. now what?

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If I'm shy and don't say anything (or much of anything) to the women I do meet, then you can't assume that women are somehow "psychic" and can read my thoughts. Utter nonsense. Rather than people see what I'm saying as correct, we're jumping to assumptions about women's telepathic powers now. lol

 

I'm far from desperate, friend. I'm much too picky to be desperate. But, after all, you would know. Well, we all know how when your mommy says you're good looking, that's all that matters. Give me a break. Just be patient, let me get a new photo of myself up... then we'll see if I'm full of crap, or possibly the only one who makes any sense around here.

 

You clearly missed everything I have already painstakingly mentioned above. I don't tell women I like, "Oh, woe is me! I'm so ugly!" Most of you must think me mentally incapitated to assume I would ever say something so outright ridiculous to anyone I meet!

 

No, many, many people (of all caliber of looks, if you want to think of it that way...) find meaningful relationships. Firstly, don't rub it in. Only upsets me all the more. Second, I never said that only "good looking" people find relationships. But the unattractive man is going to be hard-pressed to find anyone he is physically attracted to, who feels the same about him. Sure, there are some rarities which exist, but for the most part, it's true. Or... are you giving me that wonderful bit of advice that that one counselor I spoke to said: In essense, "So what if you're not physically attracted to them? Just take who you can get." Needless to say, I never went back, after hearing that garbage. Much rather be alone than with someone I don't want to be with, so telling me "settle" is futile.

 

I already am alone, so your prophecy has come true! When people step out into the real world, and get off the internet, maybe then they'll begin to see that looks matter more than they think, and attitudes less. I look forward to that day.

 

 

 

Well, if you agree, then firstly: I'm surprised. But it's somewhat of a relief to know that at least some of us haven't completely lost touch with reality.

 

What do I want...? Beautiful question.

 

At first, I posted this mostly to vent. I was upset... still am. I am hurt. I'm tired of my life being so lousy. But I also believe that I am right. I walk around everyday in my shoes, as Kevin T; no one else. So I know what I experience better than anyone else. That said, it originally started out just as a rant (so complaining or "whining" isn't far off, I'd say), but then so many people started disputing everything I was saying was wrong (without any hint of proof for their claims) and that motivated me to say, "Wait a minute... just because you guys say something, doesn't make it so. Looks DO matter; a great deal more than you profess!"

 

And essentially, here we are.

 

Does that mean I'm looking for sympathy? Nah. I don't care about that. It won't help me anyway. Sure, it would be nice if more people identified with me and understood where I was coming from, but it seems living on the internet has blinded some people into believing attitude is everything. I hate to beat a dead horse, but I see the way people respond to me (or lack thereof), and while yes the shyness is something I can fix... it may not be enough to compensate for the lack of looks on my end.

 

So, I really don't want anything. I know that my looks cannot be changed, so seeking advice or the "perfect answer" just isn't there. I hardly want any sympathy or apology for that; that's ridiculous. As much as I hate the way this world works, I also have to assert "That's the way it is", and so here we are. I just don't understand where these people are coming from; assuming that we live in a utopian society which values only the soul, never the flesh. Come on!

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well, kevin. i hope that you can at least find some middle ground on your stance. you are way far on one side of this situation and the "utopian" society is way far on the other side. what i wish for you is that you find things that make you happy, try not to focus on the things that get to you, and (at the risk of sounding like one of the people who are pissing you off about attitude adjustments ) i also hope that you can find some peace that will enable you to shed the anger and dissappointment. taking a risk again, peaceful people are easier to approach and get to know... don't be mad, i'm just sayin'

 

my situation growing up (i'm "old" now) i had horrible fears and insecurities about my looks and how i wasnt "pretty" like all the other girls. this might not be the best way to deal with it, but i just masked it, covered it up very very well and acted like i could not care less about what boys thought of me. (big defensive walls... i'm not advocating it, but it's how i survived.) anyway, i focused on things i liked that didn't give me pressure... swimming, science, music... and had guys as just "friends". a real tomboy, i guess. anyway, i feel like i'm about to give you some advice, so i'll stop!!!

 

i feel for you, i don't think what you're saying is a giant load, and i wish you the best!

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Love to... if I could get a more recent pic uploaded. I'm working on it at the moment, but don't expect much.

 

Besides, you're a guy, so what you think of me that way, means nothing. lol

 

As I said, though, I'll see what I can do. If it works, I'll get back to you in a PM... maybe.

 

lol I might have given out a wrong impression there...

 

 

However after years of asking whether I myself am physically 'attractive' (to women), and finally realising myself as 'average', I have a rough idea of what makes a man physically 'ugly' (to women) by definition.

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Do I come accross as angry? Sure, I'm angry about the situation, but not at anyone here. They are just as entitled to their opinions as I am to mine.

 

Does the attitude need adjusting? Oh, probably. But no matter what I think of myself (or how I carry myself), I don't believe it will make THAT much of a difference. Even the people who claim to have changed their behaviour admit that they are still single. So what good did it actually do for them?

 

You're more than entitled to give advice. I consider everything I'm told here... but that doesn't mean I ultimately agree with all I hear. If anything, it only bothers me more to know that other people are going through the same thing. (I'm compassionate, forgive me. lol) It would make me all too happy to have things operate differently, but what are the odds of that happening?

 

As for putting up walls, I've done that before. Appearing cold, stoic and aloof on the outside to most people. But on the inside, it was a totally different story. I get tired of playing a part, wearing a mask or acting a farce. It's not me. I suppose I already am running away, though... I'm missing school a lot, I don't go out much, I spend way too much time here (it's true), so who am I to tell people to face their problems?

 

 

Oh, think nothing of it.

 

I meant no disrespect, nor did I question your manhood. lol

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If I'm shy and don't say anything (or much of anything) to the women I do meet, then you can't assume that women are somehow "psychic" and can read my thoughts. Utter nonsense. Rather than people see what I'm saying as correct, we're jumping to assumptions about women's telepathic powers now. lol

See, here you're saying that women aren't falling for you because you're shy. Previously you said it was just looks. Make up your mind.

 

I'm far from desperate, friend. I'm much too picky to be desperate. But, after all, you would know. Well, we all know how when your mommy says you're good looking, that's all that matters. Give me a break. Just be patient, let me get a new photo of myself up... then we'll see if I'm full of crap, or possibly the only one who makes any sense around here.

Who cares what we think? You obviously are completely sure of the fact that you're ugly, and make that fact well known to the people you talk to, at least here. Why should we tell you otherwise when you'll clearly just disagree?

 

You clearly missed everything I have already painstakingly mentioned above. I don't tell women I like, "Oh, woe is me! I'm so ugly!" Most of you must think me mentally incapitated to assume I would ever say something so outright ridiculous to anyone I meet!

I refuse to believe that you're a completely different person in real life than you are here. You know perfectly well that nobody here thinks you just randomly tell people you're ugly. But I'd bet that people can tell your self-esteem issues without you having to directly tell them what you think of yourself, and I believe that's a much bigger part of your problem than physical looks, or even shyness.

 

No, many, many people (of all caliber of looks, if you want to think of it that way...) find meaningful relationships. Firstly, don't rub it in. Only upsets me all the more. Second, I never said that only "good looking" people find relationships. But the unattractive man is going to be hard-pressed to find anyone he is physically attracted to, who feels the same about him. Sure, there are some rarities which exist, but for the most part, it's true. Or... are you giving me that wonderful bit of advice that that one counselor I spoke to said: In essense, "So what if you're not physically attracted to them? Just take who you can get." Needless to say, I never went back, after hearing that garbage. Much rather be alone than with someone I don't want to be with, so telling me "settle" is futile.

OK, first, your counselor should be fired. Anyway. It's the "hot" people that are the rarity, not the normal ones. You seem to be giving people tons of reasons why they shouldn't be with you rather than focusing on your strengths and qualities, i.e. reasons why they should. And I think anyone can be attractive with some work. Personally, the vibe that a woman gives off is much more important to me than the physical shape of their face or otherwise. And, here's the kicker: There are women who feel the same way. What sort of vibe are you giving off?

 

I already am alone, so your prophecy has come true! When people step out into the real world, and get off the internet, maybe then they'll begin to see that looks matter more than they think, and attitudes less. I look forward to that day.

Ah, the subtle implication that anyone who doesn't believe looks are all-important is a basement-dwelling nerd. OK, buddy, believe what you want. We're all wrong and you're the only one here who's sane. See where that gets you.

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I have news for you, friend: Read the original post. Then read the topic title. I think I made it abundantly clear that it was both looks AND shyness (in addition to bein sensitive and a christian) that are all working against me.

 

You can tell me whatever you like. Either way, I care not. (Does this prove your point? lol)

 

Then your refusal is your folly, because coming here to vent and keeping to myself completely in real life are very different things. Sorry you can't realize that. I find it (almost) funny that you presume people to be such astute discerners of one's heart! The only word I can think of for that is "psychic." I somehow am not convinced that the average person is clairovyant. lol

 

My counselor will be fired, if there is a God. lol (Okay, that was mean. But seriously, is it any wonder I only went to her twice?) Well, I find a person to be attractive, not based on "vibes." Women, could be different, I'll give you that much. But I know I don't base my attraction for females on vibes.

 

It will get me nothing. Just as believing your point of view would get me nothing. There is nothing to gain from this discourse. It is merely an exchange of ideas, at this point. But I can say that the notion of looks not mattering to women is silly.

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