How to tell if he/she is playing you..

[rosie76]

On the 'guys who respect you won't ask for sex on the first date' and 'guys won't respect you if you give it up too easy' fronts, men don't ask me for sex and I don't give sex to them. I have sex WITH people - it's an intrinsically mutual act - and any of these constructs in which a man is winning something from the woman or the woman is bestowing something on the man seem crazily outdated and remarkably grim to me.

[DN]

On the 'guys who respect you won't ask for sex on the first date' and 'guys won't respect you if you give it up too easy' fronts, men don't ask me for sex and I don't give sex to them. I have sex WITH people - it's an intrinsically mutual act - and any of these constructs in which a man is winning something from the woman or the woman is bestowing something on the man seem crazily outdated and remarkably grim to me.

Well said. I agree with this. If sex is engaged in for anything other than mutual pleasure (sometimes including the desire to procreate) it becomes a transaction or a manipulation.

[Batya33]

You misunderstand. I am fine with people having sex early on if it is consensual. I am not fine with people having sex early on and then having expectations that sex equals a relationship, and then referring to the other person as jerky or a player if that person still does not want a relationship (I know that is not what you posted). In my experience, having sex early on is somewhat risky if you want a long term relationship but there are always risks. I don't have sex early on because my personal values are not consistent with being that intimate with someone before we know each other well - at least a few months, typically longer, and we are exclusive with potential for marriage. I don't judge others for doing anything differently and I said that in my previous posts.

 

If someone says he is free that day and he will be in touch, I expect him to be in touch, but I assume any plan is tentative and I feel free to make other plans and/or he can make other plans. If we are first dating - first 5 dates or so I basically ignore the "I am free, I'll be in touch that day" - I don't accept last minute plans in general and with only some exceptions, not with someone I am newly dating. If he cannot be bothered to make plans in advance with me -- especially for a weekend - then I cannot be bothered to hold time open for him. Once we are steadily dating and it is assumed we will spend weekends, or saturday nights, together, then I don't need advance plans to hold the time open. With friendships I also need advance planning much of the time. I am a busy person with precious little free time, most of my friends make actual plans, so I am not going to hold time open for someone for too long at all who cannot make actual plans with me.

 

I didn't have time to read the rest of your post. I think we agree on most points but just wanted to clarify that I am not in "no early sex" "camp" etc

[poloplayer]

In my experience, having sex early on is somewhat risky if you want a long term relationship but there are always risks.

 

This really sums up this entire thread in my opinion. Having sex with someone early on does not mean anything other than having a good time. There are no strings attached, and it should be mutual, however, if the other person uses you, then who's fault is that? Honestly? People use each other all the time, and not just for sex. So you had sex with someone and they don't want to speak with you again. Then you're really upset. Why? You placed certain expectations on it. That is going to lead to nothing but resentment because your expectations were not fulfilled. Why don't you re-evaluate what you want, and tailor your strategy to that. If you just want sex, then go for it. If you want more than sex, but get burned early on after dropping your pants, then I don't think that it's the other persons fault who used you.

 

at least a few months, typically longer, and we are exclusive with potential for marriage

 

If I find someone with the potential for long-term progressing to marriage, then this is what I do. No problem with us getting physical, but no sex whatsoever. I find it so easy to weed out the ones who really just want me for, well, my body and a short fling. Been there, done that. It's fun, but when you begin to seek something more than just sex, it gets tough.

 

I'll give an example of what works for me. I dated this girl K years ago. K was very into me and pursued me. K has a lot of things going for her: top marks in college, winner of a beauty pageant, a very chic style of dress, a killer smile, etc., and she really, really likes me. Well, I decided to get to know her instead of just sticking it to her AND THEN getting to know her thinking that it will lead to happilly ever after. By doing this, I was able to determine that although K looked like the perfect girl at face value, however, without sex and all the blinding emotions that can come with it when done so quickly, I was able to objectively catch red flags as we got to know each other more and I determined otherwise:

 

- She said she initially went after me because of my looks (i.e., I was the best looking guy to her out of our entire college class). Flattering to some, but I'm a little smarter than that.

- She thought I was a "player" (I have perfected the art of talking or babbling). This made her want me even more, and she thought she was complementing me. I was pretty confused.

- She was hung up on getting high. Nothing wrong with having fun, but that's not what I look for in someone long term.

- She's never been dumped. I choose to stay away from anyone that has a decent amount of dating experience and never been dumped.

- As she discussed her previous relationships she mentioned how X guy was "too controlling" and Y guy "wanted to get serious" and Z guy "was possessive." I noticed a clear pattern in every old guy she's dated. Yet, she kept telling me how I was "perfect."

- She would receive calls and gifts from guys she's dated. Nothing wrong if you guys are friends, however, I found that these guys were still hung up on her. She would get Tiffany's rings mailed to her as gifts, as well as notes.

- Although she appeared materialistic, I eventually found out from her that money is everything, after she finally admitted this to me. Money is what she equates with success.

- We were physical, but no sex. After 2 months she began to plead for sex. I'm a decent guy, with some looks I guess, but how did I get this beautiful looking girl to practically beg?

 

OH MY GOD! I did it. I dated someone, let alone she had stunning looks, without caving in to sex, and got to know them, and I found out that she is not right for me. Now, had I had sex with her early on and allowed myself to just get wrapped up in all of the lust and emotions when I know I am looking for someone with long term potential, then I would have probably been burned pretty badly in the end, and I'd be joining the line of her former suitors which are mailing her gifts and calling her with the hopes of a reconciliation. Pathetic - both her and the former suitors.

 

Personally, I tend to stay away from women with model like looks. Most guys think I am crazy, but a "normal" girl, with objectively average looks, will do 10 million more things for you than anyone (man or woman) who is gorgous looking and chasing after their own self-interest will ever do. My experience with women has taught this a very long time ago, and the older I get, the more it is re-affirmed.

 

There are gorgeous people who are kind and genuine, however, they are not that common.

 

Figure out what you want. If sex or looks are at the top of your list, then go for it. If you're looking for something with greater depth, then don't fall for someone that whispers sweet nothings while unraveling your underwear within a couple of weeks. People can have sex right away and move on to happily ever after, but let's face it, fairy tales are not reality, and this is rare. Get to know someone first. If they're the right person, then you guys will be mating like rabbits for the rest of your natural lives, so why gamble with giving it up so quickly and being left with lot's of negative baggage?

[Batya33]

I don't think a man is using a woman if he has sex with her and doesn't call her he isn't using her unless he promised to call her or promised to be exclusive, etc. (and vice versa)

[Luke Skywalker]

link removed

 

link removed

 

After sex, there is no challenge, and playing video games is more exiting then being with the girl. Even a hot babe starts looking less hot and uglier.

 

Nothing to do with players or manipulation. Sex is the most powerful incentive to challenge, and when that's gone, unless there is a STRONG emotional connection, then nothing is left.

 

Other ideas about the 'vendetta' alter-ego was listened to on a CD obtained from link removed, where Payton Kane got even with a high school crush when she became infatuated with him due to his success, and dumped her immediately after sex.

[poloplayer]

Sex is the most powerful incentive to challenge, and when that's gone, unless there is a STRONG emotional connection, then nothing is left.

 

Luke, you could not have said it more perfectly. This is precisely the point of the novel which I wrote. Develop a strong connection by getting to know each other and spending time together with the anticipation of sex down the road after you have a solid foundation.

[rosie76]

All this 'the sex is the challenge, and after it all is gone' stuff quite informative but also really grim. As I've said, I've only ever dated friends previous to the current (recently past?) fling, and in that situation you already know the person, you know their history, you know they are genuine, and when you finally work out that you both fancy each other there is very little impediment to jumping into bed. And there is comparatively little risk, so long as both parties are honest about what they want out of the situation. To me romantic relationships are more than but not distinct from friendships, and if the guy's already my friend, he's unlikely to do a disappearing act just because we engage in a pleasurable act together. If one or the other of us doesn't want a relationship, that's fair enough - I've been in these situations, but I've almost always felt treated well and that I've treated him well and I've never regretted having slept together. It's been warm, fun, and wonderful even though it is not always a stepping stone to something more intense or lasting.

 

Sex to me should NEVER be seen a challege - sex is mutually enjoyable, folks, what's the challenge in doing something that BOTH partners will naturally want to do? This feels like an immature throwback to the 1950's for me - are grown adults really still spending much of their time wondering if they can get to 3rd base? I would *hate* to spend time with someone who was doing all the - to me - ordinary things like going out for fun night, taking an interest in what they're about, caring if they'd had a bad day, etc., knowing that he was thinking of all this as just a preamble to getting into bed. I think I've just been exceptionally lucky not to know, as lovers or as friends, a single man who has ever acted or professed to feel like this. Are any of this sort of man on this forum? Or is it commonly agreed among the blokes that once you get engaged in 'dating' sex as a warm, mutually enjoyable act between nice people without being a maker or breaker of things just goes out the window?

 

I did realize I had no idea what the norm was when, after several nights of doing all sorts of - to me - far more intimate things with this guy which he was very keen on, I found myself frustrated that it never progressed to sex. (It had been over two years, and women do want sex just as much as guys do, I'm sure evreyone can understand that it gets maddening to be ramped up for hours and hours and hours and not finished.) After a while I asked if this was because he didn't want to feel too responsible if we had sex and things didn't work out, and he said he was already responsible and he did want it to go further, but had never moved into anything so fast. I just assumed that six or seven nights of fooling around naked was in the same genre, but I'm seeing here that many people feel that actual intercourse has all sorts of different connotations which I really didn't ever acknowledge.

 

To me, physical intimacy is physical intimacy. This doesn't make me a slapper, I don't think, I'm just completely new to dating strangers, and it's a whole new ballpark when you know the person well already. I genuinely didn't want the latest guy just for his body, though - I liked him very much and had a great time out with him - he was quirky and seemed warm and there are very few people I meet that I like at all much less as much as that. But reading through some of this 'challenge' malarky and rethinking these conversations, I can see how I might have hastened the end of things by being so keen to have sex. Wisdom for next time, I guess. Almost curious to ask him for information's sake - we're still just on talking terms - but this, too, would probably be overly intimate and demanding.

 

Still - to return to original 'player' red flags - don't reckon any of this makes it cool to SAY he wants to meet up, actively argue that things to go on after I've assumed they're not, etc., and then not get in touch or reply to my efforts to get in touch. In any quasi-romantic situation, I feel it's everyone's responsibility to act not just with the mimimum of decency in being in touch if promised, but also with care about getting hopes up unreasonably, sending incorrect signals, being honest, etc.. And this is both the potential 'player' and the playee.

[rosie76]

Batya, sorry if I stuck you in an incorrect camp there - was the 'aren't you comfortable' bit that got my back up. What you say makes sense, and the groundrules you have for expecting 'I'll call you' to mean 'I'll call you' are very informative for a newbie.

[poloplayer]

you already know the person, you know their history, you know they are genuine, and when you finally work out that you both fancy each other there is very little impediment to jumping into bed.

 

I cannot agree with you more. My post spoke about doing this first, and then getting freaky - not the other way around. You run a big risk IF you really, really are interested in someone and sleep with them quickly, and then try form a relationship. If a girl is willing to sleep with me very early on (days to weeks) I think a few things:

 

- She must be easy.

- How many other guys before me were in this position.

- She is not long term material.

 

I do not think, "Wow, she thinks I'm such a special guy."

 

This feels like an immature throwback to the 1950's for me - are grown adults really still spending much of their time wondering if they can get to 3rd base?

 

No. This is about what you want. If I am interested in more than sex, then I will take the time to get to know her and then sleep with her. What's the rush? Sex has a tendency to complicate things. Plus I will know if she's interested in me just as much, or if she is more into just having sex.

 

If I can tell early on that a girl just wants to hook-up and I have no interest in her other than a fun time, then ok, we'll hook-up. The problem that arises with this is someone always wants something more eventually. And since we did not have an emotional relationship, but rather a pure sexual one, I don't owe her anything - phone call, etc., and vice-versa. Expectations and feelings develop and cloud too much.

 

I did realize I had no idea what the norm was when, after several nights of doing all sorts of - to me - far more intimate things with this guy which he was very keen on, I found myself frustrated that it never progressed to sex.

 

This happened to me before as well. I was interested in a girl I dated, and chose not to sleep with her early on. After a couple of months she asked me if I was interested in her. I said yes. Why would I be spending all this time with you, getting to know, and being physical, but just not havng sex? She thought I was not interested in having sex with her. Perhaps we could not communicate very well. When we did have sex down the road, she was so happy, and she said she never waited this long to have sex with a guy. My interest in her and our future plummeted, and I lost respect for her. I felt that she had such a great deal of weight placed on sex between us rather than a genuine interest in me. Plus, we were both getting off already on a consistent basis, just not having sex.

 

actual intercourse has all sorts of different connotations which I really didn't ever acknowledge.

 

It does, and it depends on what you are looking for and who the person is. If I am interested in her, I want to hold off. If I am out having fun and meet someone who is just looking to hook-up, well then what the heck.

 

I can see how I might have hastened the end of things by being so keen to have sex.

 

And this is precisely why I don't just dive into it with a new interest. I'm not saying that sex is the reason why things end, but it can definitely speed up the death process. I've never heard anyone say things are going too slow - only in hindsight "we went too fast."

 

Myself, as well as some friends, have dated people in the past where a relationship that totaled less than 6 months of meeting each other to not speaking to one another involved:

- Spending tons of time together

- Lot's and lot's of sex, and early on

- I love you's being said

- A sleepover here or there, led to one moving into the others place

- Vacations together in paradise

- And talk about marriage and kids

 

Um. 6 months?? Do you even have a clue who the other person is and what they really want in a partner and in life? This is a surefire way to kill any flame. This is pure lust, and nothing wrong with lust and passion, but take it slow and get to know someone before you get swept away in what you hope for between the two of you. You never know, you two may have been good for something longer if you didn't go overboard and kill the flame.

 

I don't believe I am from the 50's. My dating experience has taught me a few things, and I cannot agree more with taking it slow and letting a relationship develop that eventually leads to intimacy, as opposed to having sex together due to "chemistry" and then trying to make a relationship work between us. The chemistry may be there, but you don't know the other person and compatablity trumps chemistry in any relationship. I cannot continue to have passionate sex with someone when I realize that I cannot tolerate them to warrant a relationship. In the end it's a win-win: we progress to sex and create a stronger relationship, or we do not progress to sex for whatever reasons and I have a good friend.

[Luke Skywalker]

I've came accross this thread from sosuave that asks the question:

 

"What is a woman good for other than sex?"

 

It's a recent thread, and here's the link.

 

link removed

 

The thread claims that women are just out to use men, because if you need ANY TYPE OF SUPPORT from a woman, you are perceived as weak and friendzoned, and women in general are morons that cant have an intelligent conversation since they rely on feelings rather than intellect like men do, and thus aren't good for anything other than sex and being dumped like a dirty rag once they are used.

 

All on this link here - although I have summarised it's contents. It's how people are thinking out there.

[poloplayer]

The thread claims that women are just out to use men, because if you need ANY TYPE OF SUPPORT from a woman, you are perceived as weak and friendzoned, and women in general are morons that cant have an intelligent conversation since they rely on feelings rather than intellect like men do, and thus aren't good for anything other than sex and being dumped like a dirty rag once they are used.

 

I did not read the article, but I will comment on your paraphrase. There are women out there that are like this, however, there are also plenty of women who are not like this. I've experienced both sides of the coin: dropped like a bad habit when adversity creeped its head in my life, as well as supported and nurtured when the times got tough for me.

 

That's why I recommend dating: just get to know someone. I'm not preaching abstinence here, rather you should have fun while not letting your guard down. You take a risk whenever you get quickly involved with someone you don't know. I know a girl who lost her virginity to some guy in a one night stand. She only had sex once in her life, and she now has genital herpes for life. Thankfully I've never contracted anything, eventhough I have had unprotected sex, but the bell tolls louder once it's closer to home.

[Luke Skywalker]

I'm sorry to hear about that story about that virgin girl and the ONS. People should wear protection, and also request an up to date medical verification that a prospective person doesn't have STD's, and if they cant provide it, then forget about it.

[rosie76]

If a girl is willing to sleep with me very early on (days to weeks) I think a few things:

 

- She must be easy.

- How many other guys before me were in this position.

- She is not long term material.

 

I do not think, "Wow, she thinks I'm such a special guy."

 

Thanks for your post, which was really informative. Wish I had time to reply more fully here, but I do wonder about this bit. Your post is sensitive and well thought out, but you say you're well into early sex on selected occaisions. So on these occaisions, unless you hold women to different sexual standards than men, you must also think yourself easy and not long term material - at least in relation to the woman you're with on that night. Are you sure she knows that? Or does she think she just had a fantastic several dates with a guy she really clicked with and then engaged in something she thought was desired mutually? I did.

 

I was keen to sleep with this guy - though was perfectly fine with waiting once he'd explained what he was thinking - but I don't think I'm 'easy' at all. I haven't had many partners and I do not take people lightly - ever. Even if the relationship is 'only' sexual, I reckon I owe them kindness and honesty and I treat them, and myself, with care. Very very few of my sexual relationships have not turned long term, so I'm definitely long term material. Good to know that being honest about sexual desire can have so many negative connotations, though! I wonder if there are any guys on the forum who _enjoy_ meeting a woman who, in addition to being fun and kind, is sexually keen?

 

I think in this situation I'd not had sex for two and a half years and had this guy I was really taken with in my bed for several nights and, surprise, surprise, found myself really wanting to have sex. I genuinely had no idea that adult people without religious restrictions rolled about together for weeks on end without having sex - I thought something must be wrong that I didn't understand. So I was actively keen, and may have chased this guy off. But then again, I didn't force or pressure him, so if he was willing to do something mutual and then felt justified disappearing on me because of it, I feel like I've not really lost out on a gem of a man. Then again, I'm still thinking of him and trying to remind myself not to be in touch with him again...

[SexySadie7]

Poloplayer, these are wise words, i cannot deny.

 

"but take it slow and get to know someone before you get swept away in what you hope for between the two of you. You never know, you two may have been good for something longer if you didn't go overboard and kill the flame.

 

I don't believe I am from the 50's. My dating experience has taught me a few things, and I cannot agree more with taking it slow and letting a relationship develop that eventually leads to intimacy, as opposed to having sex together due to "chemistry" and then trying to make a relationship work between us. "

 

Rosie, did you say you didn't have sex with the guy after sleeping with him for a few weeks and then he just disappeared on you?

That's puzzling behavior.

[rosie76]

Hiya Sadie, no, we slept together (as in shared a bed) for several nights during which he said he didn't want to rush things to sex. I said ok, but then the next night he'd changed his mind. Then he seemed to disappear (not returning a call for 5 days, which included my last weekend home before the holidays when he'd implied we'd meet up), so I wrote cutting things off politely. Then got a message saying he thought things were going well and didn't want them to end and a few half-attempts to get in touch over the next few days, but didn't see him. Went home, exchanged completely one completely banal email (intiated by me) and haven't heard from him since I got back.

 

Did think it was pretty bizarre behaviour, but reading these forums it seems pretty par for the course. My best guess is he wasn't nearly as keen on me as I was on him, got scared off / lost interest after the first few weeks, but said he hadn't when I wrote to him to break things off either to keep his options open or because he thought that might be nicer than just doing a disappearing act. But who can know - I really don't know him very well and can't do anything to understand the situation in any real way - I'm just trying not to think about him, to not get in touch with him again myself, and to take this whole affair as a learning experience. Shame, though.

 

Hope you're doing alright not feeling too down about your own disappearing act guy - meant to write onto your thread yesterday but didn't have time. Must be some consolation - is to me at least - to know that the guy is obviously not that much of a loss if he's ended it like this. Nothing saying whether he's a good or bad guy, or was playing me, or anything since I really can't know the situation, but I can know that how he treated me made me unhappy, so it's good, in a way, to know that it's done. Good luck feeling better soon.