Any genuinely comfortable women left?

[shes2smart]

Here's the thing: I AM happy with myself and with my life and I'd hazard a guess that I'm more content with my state of being than many people are with theirs.

 

Congratulations if you can manage to live in the world, yet never be affected by it, its influences on you and/or its influences on others around you (who you have to interact with). I've been quite successful in not giving a rat's behind about what other people may or may not think about me in just about every other area of my life, however, the weight and appearance issues continue to be sore subjects on occaision. Not all the time, but definitely some of the time. Yesterday was surely an "ouchy" day for me, otherwise I probably would not have replied to this thread at all.

 

To the OP: one suggestion I have not specifically seen mentioned here is this (and it's what has provided the positive changes in my own attitude): instead of attempting to compliment her into believing differently (which likely will not work), why not start a general discussion about the unrealistic images and expectations she's been bombarded with?

 

One book that immediately leaps to mind on the topic is link removed. I found it quite helpful to read that book and others like it. It gives the reader a larger picture and some historical background as to the forces that are influencing them that they may be unaware of. Ideally, it would cause her to start questioning the beliefs she has that are bringing about the attitude you describe, and get her to start changing those beliefs with ones that are more positive and supportive.

[joiseygrl]

I wish I could tell you that you can help her, but you can't. I had a terrible self-esteem problem for years. I have been working on that for over a year now and I can say that I am finally 100% happy with me (inside and out). Self-esteem must come from the inside. No one can convince you that you have what it takes, youhave to realize it. I do think getting older and maturing has a good deal to do with it, but it's an effort to turn those bad thoughts around and start feling good about who you are.

[SarahRose]

when you have the media/society pumping out garbage to make people feel bad about themselves so they will buy expensive garbage to make them feel better about themselves for 5 minutes, what can anyone expect?

 

message: "You are never good enough as you are so buy our expensive crap to make yourself good enough!"

 

As for being comfortable, I think I was more insecure about my body when I was a young hottie thing than I am now.

 

I learned to strut myself confidently on the stage many years ago.

 

When my relationship was still somewhat new I bought this hot pink and black stripper costume complete with garter belt and black fishnet stocking and tall sexy f me pumps. I put in on in the bathroom and looked at myself in the mirror and thought good grief, am I too old to be wearing this? Do I look silly?

 

Then I thought nah, he will love it and so I threw my shoulders back proudly and practiced my stripper strut a bit in the bathroom and then I strutted my stuff right to the bedroom and he nearly fell over! Yeah the boy was sprung! lol

 

So yeah I am confident and comfortable with my body. He loves it.

[lizziebee]

Slacker, I know maybe 2, count 'em TWO women who are comfortable with their bodies....I am not one of them even though I am tall and slender. But my response to you is this, my bf at 49 y/o is very insecure about his body, which I love and he is trying hard to accept the compliments without any back talk. He rarely ever compliments me, the bod, whatever except to say I am sexy....I am ok with that...But for someone fishing for compliments, totally insecure not just about her body but something else. When women reach an age where they don't turn heads when they walk into a cocktail party like they did when they were 18 walking into the bar, the insecurities boil over. Ask her 'isn't it enough that I think you are a babe' or something to that effect....lemme know!

[lipostudio]

Everything in Western society, from advertising, TV shows, magazines, food, clothing, movies, ALL OF IT, is designed to make women feel uncomfortable and inadequit. How am I supposed to feel good about my body when it looks nothing like all the women that are "desirable"? I know they're desirable because they have their faces all over the place and my boyfriend masturbates to them and they look nothing like me. Unless I start spending 5 hours a day in the gym like some celebrity beauties, I don't have a hope in hell of competing.

 

Your woman sounds like she's taking it a bit far if she can't trust that you believe she's beautiful, but the bottom line is that you might be one of the only places she's ever had that message. And face it, when the whole world is shouting at you about how far from the ideal you are, it takes a very, very strong woman to stand up and tell them to screw themselves.

 

There seems to be a trust issue, though, if she believes you're lying to her when you say she's pretty. And if she doesn't think you're lying, she needs to learn to take your compliments with a bit more respect. You need to sit down and talk to her about this. Tell her what you said in the opening of this post!

[TheRedQueen]

I grew out of it....thank god!!

 

Sometimes I get insecure when I have to "unleash" my breasts for the first time, as I've always been concerned that they're too big, (needless to say this is crazy talk, in actuality they're quite nice). Other than that, I like my body, and whether in a suit, sweats, a bikini or my birthday suit, I'm both glad and proud to say, I feel comfortable in my skin.

[TiredMan]

Ugh, why do people blame society yet neglect how "men" are supposed to look to be considered attractive as well?

 

For most, to be in good shape, all it takes is willpower and willingness to put in the work. But I think some people just don't wish to do that and want it to come easy, hence all the plastic surgery, people paying for all these pills and fads, and worst those who actually bought that electronic belt thing that was supposed to melt away pounds while you watch TV lol.

[shes2smart]

Several times in this thread I have acknowledged that there ARE societal expecations about men's appearance as well.

 

However, there is a difference between what men deal with in this area and what women deal with in this area because of the length of time these two groups have been subject to pervasive, culturally-sanctioned unrealistic expectations.

 

If you look at advertising from 20-30 years ago there were few, if any, products being marketed to men for their appearance -- such as grooming products or diet programs. The commonly held assumption was that men didn't care about such frivolous (i.e. "female") things. Yeah, they advertised things like razors and cologne at Christmas--but as gifts women could buy the guys on their list...not the way things like male body sprays are marketed directly to men now (with the promise that you'll have women hanging all over you) year round.

 

However, women have been subjected to "you're not good looking enough" messages for generations. So much so that judging a woman primarily or solely on her appearance alone has been institutionalized -- there's this odd world of the pageant circuit available for just about any age female who cares to participate and beauty pagents have been with us for generations. Outside of the gay community and body building competitions, I have yet to hear of something as mainstream and mass-appeal for men as the Miss America or Miss Universe pagents.

 

When the expectations have been there for only a couple decades, they're not as strongly internalized for the entire gender accross all ages and income levels as when those expectations have been there for 100 years or more, as they have been for women. Advertising dating back to the early 1900s markets things like corsets and cosmetics to women in a way that is designed to make them feel insecure about their appearance so they would purchase the product to solve the "problem."

 

My dietician works exclusively with people who have eating disorders and body image issues. 15 years ago she had NO male clients....these days, they're a small -- but growing -- segment of her clientele. So, yes, men are starting to feel the effects of unrealistic expectations regarding appearance. Perhaps when her clientele (and the clientele of of other ED therapists) reaches a 50/50 mix of male and female clients, then there'll be a little better understanding of the cultural forces we are fighting.

[Royltnxile]

I dated a girl who had terrible self esteem, poor body self image, a former eating problem. She couldn't take compliments well, and she couldn't believe it when I was attentive and considerate to her sexually as well. She thought she was "fat", but she was a size 1-2 and weighed like 108#..and she was obsessed with weighing 105#. She was a real bundle of insecurities and she dug the hell out of me. I loved her, treated her well, was thoughtful, considerate, attentive, non demanding or controlling...and above all....was never critical of her.

 

She ended up breaking up with me over the phone, on Valentines Day, an hour before we had dinner plans...and we had been dating for 5 months! Total flake out. She got scared and ran away. I didn't chase her. This was two years ago almost and she still calls me occasionally but doesn't leave messages...total whack job!

 

Heard a few weeks ago that she is now working as a stripper at one of the local gentleman's clubs here in the area. believe me, as uncomfortable with herself that she was, she is the last person I would imagine doing that. (taking her clothes off for money) But then again, given her low self esteem and body self image, maybe it makes perfect sense...she needs the attention of men, multiple men, to validate herself and make her feel worthy because she feels so poorly about herself?????? I don't get it.

 

She ran from me because I treated her well and I'm a good man. She couldn't handle being with someone who respected her. Women with low self esteem typically seek out men who reflect how they feel about themselves - thus alot of women getting involved with the "bad boys" who treat them like crap.

 

So Slacker, I know exactly what you are talking about on this thread. Been there, done that. Also, I totally disagree with the whole "society is at fault for low body self image" crap. If a woman thinks she fat (and is indeed overweight, not like my girl I have described), then she needs to get off her fat azz and do something about it. No one but ourselves are responsible for how we look and what we weigh. I'm 40# heavier than I was last year, and I"ll drop those 40# again in the coming months prior to summer...no big deal. I'm not happy with the way I look at present, so I'm going to do something about it rather than * * * * * and moan about the fact that I don't look like a male model or an athlete.

[TiredMan]

There is much more than body sprays being marketed. There are ED pills, pilss that are "supposed" to increase penis size, hair loss pills, steroids or supplements to get the guy bigger muscles, and so many more.

 

My personal opinion is that it is easier for a woman to "look the part" of what we see in Hollywood as they just need to be thin to be considered "hot". A "hot" guy is not only thin but muscular and anyone who has worked out very hard knows, it's very hard to build muscle and then having to go througha cutting cycle to burn the fat that came with the muscle.

 

There may be a difference in the time that this has been here, I agree. But there is also a difference in that it's much harder for the man to achieve that look.

[caro33]

shes2smart has been absolutely spot on as far as I am concerned. Good on you shes2smart, you are making all the arguments I would have made had I seen this thread earlier and if I was as articulate as you.

 

TiredMan, thing is, I think very few women expect their man to look like the guys you refer to. So many women are with guys who don't look anything like the 'model type' and they don't care. The women are too busy hoping their homely guys don't notice their cellulite.

 

Sure guys have expectations of them also, but as shes2smart said, this is such a recent phenomenon. Women are judged by their appearance and they have been for centuries. I think the culture is a function of men's more visual approach, of women being highly competitive, and of the limitations in women's opportunities that prevailed for SO LONG (until when? maybe when we got meaningful contraception?) that meant that for most women, all they really had in value currency (as far as rhe rest of the world was concerned) was their looks. I'm not blaming men, I think it's far more complex than that. It's women as well, it's our history, biology etc. But an absense of effective blame allocation doesn't make it less the reality, less of an experience for many women.

 

Yes we all have responsibility for ourselves, and yes it is a bit self-indulgent to go on and on about weight and not appear to do anything about it. It's poor form for a girlfriend to bat away compliments with 'no, I'm disgusting' and she should try and be more open to his feelings too.

 

But for god's sake, there are years and years of messages some of us women have received. Some of us are just not built the way everyone tells us we are supposed to be built, some have had years of psychological abuse at school from nasty children, some have cruel parents or relatives who tell us we're fat from a young age and no one will love us. Boyfriends who said 'helpful' things about our bodies that make us feel ashamed and 'lucky' that they'll have us.

 

We turn on the TV and all we see are music videos of half-naked teenagers vying to be some boy's 'ho' and we get to see our men drooling over lingerie models who look nothing like us. Where are the celebrations of women's achievements using their brains? Where are the women with ambition outside of using their bodies who are viewed as 'normal' women (that is, not half-men) and also as positive role models?

 

Yes you can spark a positive approach to the best of your ability but the grooming many of us have had sometimes means that on some days you just feel bad.

[Aurian]

Ugh, why do people blame society yet neglect how "men" are supposed to look to be considered attractive as well?

 

For most, to be in good shape, all it takes is willpower and willingness to put in the work. But I think some people just don't wish to do that and want it to come easy, hence all the plastic surgery, people paying for all these pills and fads, and worst those who actually bought that electronic belt thing that was supposed to melt away pounds while you watch TV lol.

 

Well, for one thing, even homely men are still in the media, even if there are more and more "hotties" showing up. Often in shows you see good-looking men, average men and ugly men. However, it is rare to see average or ugly women unless they are supposed to be pitied.

 

There is much more than body sprays being marketed. There are ED pills, pilss that are "supposed" to increase penis size, hair loss pills, steroids or supplements to get the guy bigger muscles, and so many more.

 

My personal opinion is that it is easier for a woman to "look the part" of what we see in Hollywood as they just need to be thin to be considered "hot". A "hot" guy is not only thin but muscular and anyone who has worked out very hard knows, it's very hard to build muscle and then having to go througha cutting cycle to burn the fat that came with the muscle.

 

There may be a difference in the time that this has been here, I agree. But there is also a difference in that it's much harder for the man to achieve that look.

 

I disagree that it is harder for a man to look the part. The average model is 5'11" and tends be a size 2. She weighs something like 120 pounds or less. I'm sorry, but nobody has the option of growing a lot of extra inches, or being that slim. I got the height, but for me to be that small, I'd have to starve myself... and then cut my legs off

[TiredMan]

Well, for one thing, even homely men are still in the media, even if there are more and more "hotties" showing up. Often in shows you see good-looking men, average men and ugly men. However, it is rare to see average or ugly women unless they are supposed to be pitied.

 

I disagree that it is harder for a man to look the part. The average model is 5'11" and tends be a size 2. She weighs something like 120 pounds or less. I'm sorry, but nobody has the option of growing a lot of extra inches, or being that slim. I got the height, but for me to be that small, I'd have to starve myself... and then cut my legs off

 

MUCH easier to be thin than thin AND muscled up. I'm not talking about height, which is obviously not in anyone's control.

 

When a show like "Desperate Housewives" is as popular as it is right now, it tells me how society sees things.

[TiredMan]

Plenty or women DO or they fantasize about it.

 

The other thing in the "videos" that you left out is that the men have to be rich and powerful to get in those situations.

[caro33]

Plenty or women DO or they fantasize about it.

 

The other thing in the "videos" that you left out is that the men have to be rich and powerful to get in those situations.

 

Yes, absolutely, that was my point.

[TiredMan]

Yes, absolutely, that was my point.

 

but that falls under the same "pressure criteria" and it's been here forever.

 

Success is how much you make, car you drive, clothers you own, jewelry you wear, gifts you buy your SO and so forth.

[TiredMan]

Well, for one thing, even homely men are still in the media, even if there are more and more "hotties" showing up. Often in shows you see good-looking men, average men and ugly men. However, it is rare to see average or ugly women unless they are supposed to be pitied.

 

Tell that to Oprah, or the many women on the View for starters. I guess they are "hotties?"

[caro33]

but that falls under the same "pressure criteria" and it's been here forever.

 

Success is how much you make, car you drive, clothers you own, jewelry you wear, gifts you buy your SO and so forth.

 

Yes. However I was under the impression that this thread was about women and their body issues. I was trying, perhaps unsuccessfully, to shed light on why some women are seen as too obsessed with their weight and their looks.

 

Men may well have power/money issues but perhaps that's one for a different thread?

[caro33]

Tell that to Oprah, or the many women on the View for starters. I guess they are "hotties?"

 

Okay, how about news presenters then.

 

There are always exceptions anyway.

 

Are you genuinely arguing that women and men have equal body issues and are treated equally in this respect accross 'western' culture and its media?

[TiredMan]

Okay, how about news presenters then.

 

There are always exceptions anyway.

 

Are you genuinely arguing that women and men have equal body issues and are treated equally in this respect accross 'western' culture and its media?

 

I think it's balanced out meaning unattractive women still get attention and play in culture and media. I mean Oprah is like the most successful woman out there. Not much of an "exception". But everything on TV is based on looks. You think, I don't know, John Candy was gonna get a huge lead romantic role where it wasn't a comedy?

 

But I think an attractive women gets WAYYY farther in all that that an attractive guy.

 

News presenters? Not many of them are in great shape or are "hotties": hmmmm off the top of my head? Barbara Walters, Diane Sawyer?? They are/were major names.

[TiredMan]

Yes. However I was under the impression that this thread was about women and their body issues. I was trying, perhaps unsuccessfully, to shed light on why some women are seen as too obsessed with their weight and their looks.

 

Men may well have power/money issues but perhaps that's one for a different thread?

 

Well it was more about the initial poster asking about it. My post was about how people like to blame "society" for their self esteem. If they want to be in great shape, it CAN be done. But I truly believe many rather not do it and point the finger of blame instead.

[Aurian]

have you LOOKED at Oprah lately? She's slim, curvy and very good looking these days. Not at all like the chubby, make-up-less woman we once knew. My mom even said that she is less interested in the show and magazine these days because it seems hypocritical that Oprah talks about accepting yourself yet Oprah herself has been glammed up.

 

I think Barbara Walters has retired. Who's newsworthy these days? Oh yeah, cute bubbly Katie Couric.

[TiredMan]

have you LOOKED at Oprah lately? She's slim, curvy and very good looking these days. Not at all like the chubby, make-up-less woman we once knew. My mom even said that she is less interested in the show and magazine these days because it seems hypocritical that Oprah talks about accepting yourself yet Oprah herself has been glammed up.

 

I think Barbara Walters has retired. Who's newsworthy these days? Oh yeah, cute bubbly Katie Couric.

 

Barbara Walters hosts the View (popular show) along with Rosie ODonnell (another "hottie" huh?) and I don't know the names of the other two. Star Jones (yet another one??) was replaced. I think Barbara Walters does specials from time to time for big interviews.

 

Oprah is clearly NOT a hottie even now. I wouldn't call her slim. But compared to before, she has definitely slimmed down.

 

I thought of others as I typed this. How about TV personalities like Sally Jesse Raphael, Judge Judy, Rosie ODonnell (when she had her own talk show), Joan Rivers (hosts all those pre award shows) etc.....

[Aurian]

Okay, I don't watch many talk shows so I am getting out of my league... At any rate talk shows seem to be different from movies and acted TV shows somehow, because talk shows depend on the speaker's personality, not so much on her looks and acting ability. Can you name any big female movie stars who are kinda less than pretty?

 

I can come up with a few male stars in comedies and romantic comedies, but I cannot think of any female ones - even the "funny" leads are very beautiful and slim.

 

Ahh... at any rate, things are "evening" up a bit, much to my disgust. We ARE seeing more and more polished, "perfect", male stars in the media and that's kinda sad. I kinda like a more natural looking guy - some of the stars these days are so primped and polished, they look rather fake and creepy!

 

I absolutely loved the girl in "Ugly Betty." I think she looks a lot nicer than many of the girls on the show because she has her own look, and a big smile! The other girls tend to be a bit cookie-cutter, and Wilhelmina looks a wee bit s-t-r-e-t-c-h-e-d! I think I read that the girl will be on Cosmo's cover for the February issue, in which case, I say BRAVO! Size 12, shorter, not botoxed and looking the same as 70% of the other cover models? About time!

[TiredMan]

Romantic leads? I doubt you will find many males in that role. Comedy is different. I mean Rosie ODonnell was in some movies and I wouldn't call her a hottie. What was that Greek movie about the greek girl in the greek family that didn't want her to get married to a non greek? She wasn't a hottie either.

 

I thiink women have it easier in some cases as well. Are "plus sized" male models a big thing like it is with women?