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John14087
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This is more a commentary than a question. I see that people say "Women care more about personality than how a man looks". I think thats ridiculous!! I mean you dont see Hugo the Hunchback living it up with cheerleaders just because he has a "good personality". They call it attraction for a reason. Physical attraction is the foundation of building the realtionship all other aspects just build upon that! So please, stop saying otherwise.

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Nah, it's more about physical "presentation" (i.e. the way a guy carries himself) than just the way a guy looks. Guys tend to be much more shallow and superficial with the opposite sex than women are with us (of course, there are always some exceptions.)

 

Nevertheless, women look more for status, power, financial stability and attitude as opposed to just looks. Men, on the other hand, value looks to the utmost extreme. For example, it's much easier to find a guy who would sleep with a good looking woman just because she was hot (even if he detested her personality), whereas the chances of a woman doing so are a lot less. Women aren't as superficial as us guys, at least, not as a whole.

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Unfortunately, I agree as well. Women judge men by their looks upon the first impression. If they don't like the guy's looks, they aren't going to give him a chance to exhibit his nice personality. They just shut themselves off and the guy has no way to cross this barrier. I disagree that men value looks "to the utmost extreme". That's a false stereotype.

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I wish I could disagree, but I can't. Not yet, anyway. Not with what I've seen. If it were true that personality is A#1, then link removed wouldn't be begging us to put up our picture up to get 10xs the responses. Duh. It's all about attraction.

 

But, there are rare instances when, in the long run, your personalty can slowly drape you in a magical cloak you that makes you look better than you actually do. The Sense of Humor Cloak, Version 2 is the most potent one.

 

Unfortunately, some of these cloaks come with a virus known as the AttractionBlocker3000, where your camoulflage is virtually useless. I have chatted online with two very sweet women that I met on a sports site, both of whom were in like with the man of their dreams. They weren't in love because physically, the men weren't their type. But as for everything else, they were darn near perfect for them.

 

I beg of you my brothers, beware the AttractionBlocker3000, also known as the FriendZone Unlimited. The wounds cut real deep.

 

And it works both ways. We men are just as guilty.

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*warning, if you are easily made self conscious of your appearance, dont read on...

 

 

I think looks are essential. But its only a starting point. And the only point at which looks are a problem is that if they indicate a health concern. This i believe is an evolutionary call of nature. Acne is bad, because it indicates stress/anxiety/poor sleep/allergies etc. If nature tells you those bumps are uggo-s its telling you that that particular mate might not make the best offspring. similarly, if someone is (dare i say) fat, that bugs me a lot. The fat just below and around the chest is the most unnattractive; naturally studies have shown that this location of fat is most highly linked to very early death caused by heart disease. Also, a person with poor energy levels, bald at age 20, brown teeth, fungus nails, small boobs...etc it all indicates to me some aspect of that persons nature is bad for childbearing. Small boobs? Not enough breastmilk for the babes. Fungus? Poor natural internal immune system anti-pathogen health.

 

Okay now practically, people look better today that they did millions of years ago because they are so much healthier, and partly because they developed the option to mate with people who are more healthy looking. But for my sake, I can't have the best looking person if they arent going to be socially conscious of their health either. Also, if their personality sucks, it compeltely undoes any looks all together. AND no, as a guy, i would not be willing to 'f' just anyone because they are 'hot' because without the personality connection there is no love and it would be like doing it with a hooker and be so so so horribly unfullfilling mentally. I wonder what evoluationry purpose the love connection means for sex?

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Unfortunately, I agree as well. Women judge men by their looks upon the first impression. If they don't like the guy's looks, they aren't going to give him a chance to exhibit his nice personality. They just shut themselves off and the guy has no way to cross this barrier. I disagree that men value looks "to the utmost extreme". That's a false stereotype.

 

I agree with this, I mean it just surprises me that women will say that a confident man that carries himself well is the basis of an attraction. How can you deny that a physical attraction is the first thing that draws you to a person? When people go out to bars and clubs etc. they dont' interview every member of the opposite sex while blindfolded to find out if they are interested in them. They look for people they have a physical attraction to and they go to them; or at least someone average looking.

 

But New_Horizons has it dead on, women (just like men) will look at your appearance, and if they don't like what they see than you had better have an unbelievable personality. Why on earth would you want to be with someone you aren't physically attracted to right off the bat? Most people who say that looks don't matter either have them, or have at least had someone attracted to them before. I am short and have talked about it on here several times. I have no doubt that when a girl sees me for the first time, my height is the first thing she takes notice of and that already puts me in a negative light with most women. I don't agree with anyone who says you can learn to overcome a lack of physical attraction through personality; it is much easier to find a physically attractive partner that you click with. unfortunately this fact condemns many people to a lonlier life than most, and makes i harder to find a mate (maybe not impossible, but definitely harder). That is why there will always be a higher concentration of confident, social people in those who are considered good-looking than those who have inherent physical flaws considered unapealing. They are accepted by society so much more easily. I think I would definitely know if women were physically attracted to me, but I know they aren't. How? They are less responsive to me than average guys and good-looking guys. It is so blatantly obvious that looks matter, why people try to deny it is beyond me; it doesn't make you shallow by any means. It is a fact of life: LOOKS MATTER.

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This statement is ridiculous and I've personally proven this wrong and seen it proven wrong in others. I have this one friend Bobby who is ugly, poor as hell, annoying in general, and he is consistently sleeping with at least 3 women at a time (not orgies, 1 on 1 but they don't know each other) and they are very hot, hotter than I can get. And I'd say I'm about an 8-8.5 outta ten. And before I started studying this, how come it was so hard for me to get girlfriends? I get approached all the time by good looking girls, I would always just mess it up with my words. I'm a lot better now, but still not where I wanna be. How could these situations be if what you say is true?

 

You set up the all famous self limiting beliefs when you believe in things like this, that you need to be good looking, tall, rich, famous to get girls. True, being good looking can help you get a good reaction when you start talking to a girl or in rare cases they will start coming up and talking to you (but don't count on it, the hot ones don't need to hit on anyone, guys hit on them). But looks go right out the window when it comes to the conversation that ensues. And same thing with money, some girls will sleep with you for this reason, but all of these things disappear quickly and you will get dumped/never get a gf if you don't cultivate your ability to communicate with women.

 

And as far as helping you talk to girls, looks are such an easily overcomable obstacle if you know how to do it.

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I agree with helloladies.

 

And to a degree, it goes for women attracting men as well.

 

I remember the day I was *crushed* to realize that the guy I liked at the time was seeing a girl who was 'uglier, fatter, and with less going for her in life'.

Oh, she wasn't that bright either. lol.

 

At first, I thought "well, maybe I'm just being a byatch and not seeing that she is pretty and attractive and smart?

Nah. She didn't have all that.

 

She just had a 'softer' personality that better suited the dude.

 

I was forced to re-evaluate all my previous conceptions of what attracts a man

 

That's another thing - getting rejected based on personality doesn't necessarily mean you have a loser personality. Sometimes personalities just don't match. And that is ok.

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I would have to agree as well. Looks are important to both sexes, however, I think there is a more emphasis on a woman's look than a man's. This is just from my observations. A woman would be happy with an average looking guy, but to me, I think guys would get bored of average looking women. But, if they love her for who she truly is, then I guess they won't. Then again, I live in the most superficial place on earth: somewhere southern California, so I can't be blamed for making such observations, because people out here are conditioned to be that superficial. Not that everyone out here is. It's just a different kind of lifestyle..

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You dont need to be attractive physically, rather attractive with your personality and how you carry yourself.

 

This means:

- CONFIDENCE

- Display yourself to be of higher value than the girl

- Dont be needy (ie. dont look for her acceptance with what you are doing)

- Be hygenic and stylish. Looks dont really matter, but if you can do something to help, do it

 

Mainly, be confident.

 

All you people whinging about girls only looking for 2 seconds to see if you are 'attractive', that is true. However, it is what you do and say in these 2 seconds, not how your face is shapen, that will define attraction.

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I get approached all the time by good looking girls, I would always just mess it up with my words. I'm a lot better now, but still not where I wanna be. How could these situations be if what you say is true?

 

And same thing with money, some girls will sleep with you for this reason, but all of these things disappear quickly and you will get dumped/never get a gf if you don't cultivate your ability to communicate with women.

 

 

Well, this is all true but it doesn't conflict with the statement that looks do matter. The examples you brought up deal with the second, third impressions (etc, etc). You stated you get approached by good looking girls, well there ya go. I've never been approached by a girl, good looking or not. At least you have the chance to make it or blow it. Short guys don't even get that chance. Perhaps you and I *eventually* end up single and lonely, but through completely different pathways.

 

I'm really surprised to hear of your friend Bob but I'm guessing he's just an exception. There are exceptions everywhere. Or he makes up for his looks with a stunning show of confidence. So tell me, what makes him confident? Is he feigning it or is it innate?

 

It's easy to say "be confident" but it's hard to build it upon a foundation of failures. Also, 'ugly' in a girl's mind is more about the man's physical stature, not his face. Very few guys are Danny DeVito. And I bet 99% of girls wouldn't think of dating him

 

EDIT: I just remembered there *was* one girl in my whole life who hit on me. She was 32 (I was 20) and worked in a cafeteria. I'm thinking maturity had softened her views on physical appearance as is often the case. I really didn't know how to respond although I did like her. Some of my friends teased me about the age difference which made me feel awkward so I never did anything. I could KICK myself forever for that...

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being good looking can help you get a good reaction when you start talking to a girl....... But looks go right out the window when it comes to the conversation that ensues.

 

Indeed.

 

Looks can get your foot in the door, but it's your conversation skills that keep that door from slamming in your face. Yup, I've learnt this one well by being a decent looking, yet poor conversationalist.

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Alright, well don't forget my last sentence there. Good looks can make your approaching girls easier, but it is an overcomable obstacle and it is not necessary to be good looking and even an average-ugly looking can get crazy good looking girls by approaching them and having "game." I never count on girls approaching me, that's just gravy. I make my money by taking the initiative and approaching the girls myself. Evolutionary biology has made it so the guys who are willing to strike up a conversation with the girls are the ones who get involved with them. That's just the way it is and you can argue with the man upstairs about that.

 

So as for your statement, good looks can only help, but not necessary for you to succeed. There are ways around it for us guys.

 

A for my friend, he's not superman and everything that he does can be learned by you and me. I learn a ton just by hanging around him and the research I do myself. This is a learnable skill like any other, even during the initial stage. I've slept with girls who weren't interested in me right off the bat. They didn't necessarily find me attractive and want to jump my bones. In those situations it was something I said or did that got their attention.

 

Short guys don't even get that chance.

I'm not tall 5'10" and this is just another self limiting belief. I know this one guy T who is like 5'7" and he has crazy game. Being tall might help you, but you can get around it.

 

Or he makes up for his looks with a stunning show of confidence. So tell me, what makes him confident? Is he feigning it or is it innate?

And now we get to confidence. You express confidence with your words and actions. There are examples out there. For real, watch that show Hogan Knows Best with the Hulkster and emulate his mannerisms. He's got it down. Howard Stern has it very good too. Even though he's crazy, Tom Cruise is very confident. Confidence is a result of the way you talk and act and it's very hard to describe so all you can do is try and fake it til you make it. Bobby is very good at faking confidence. He's a very insecure person on the inside, wayyy worse than me. But his lack of confidence has nothing to do with chicks, it's because of other things.

 

In the end, you can fake confidence.

 

Very few guys are Danny DeVito. And I bet 99% of girls wouldn't think of dating him

I completely disagree with this statement. From the way I've seen him act on and off screen, he has an ability to light up a room with his personality and be very personable. This is why he's a famous actor. I'm sure he's actually pretty good with chicks. He has those qualities which would make him succeed.

 

If you don't know how to approach a girl, then this is your problem. I can get you a bunch of sites which can help you with this.

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i like to say that your looks bring them in but your personality makes them decide whether or not to stay. i've also seen fat, flat-chested, prematurely balding or even sterile people who had absolutely wonderful love lives.

 

despite some theories that i've heard, we are not solely about finding the most genetically perfect partner. humans are a little more complicated than that.

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I think it is hard to understand each other's specific situation. heloladies, you've said that you have had girls come up to you all the time, which gives you a whole different mindset than if no girl had ever come up to you before. You even rated yourself honestly as an 8-8.5 out of 10. If I was in your position I would have confidence with women too, I mean if women approached ME than I would be much more confident. But that isn't the case; you have to see it from the other point of view. If no women had ever come up and talked to you on their own, do you still think you woudl be as confident? I think you just really need to understand where me and New_Horizons are coming from. You sound like you have it together when it comes to confidence, but having had girls already approach you couldn't have hurt build that confidence.

 

Since most people said that good looks can help you, but personality is what keeps them interested, than you again can't understand our position. I'm trying to ask you how can you know that looks don't matter when you say you're an 8-8.5 out of 10 and have had girls approach you all the time? How do you know girls would give you the same attention and chance with them if you didn't have that? Can I ask what gave you confidence besides the fact you've attracted girls before, and that you are good looking?

 

again, I'm not just trying to argue anymore that looks are everything, I'm just explaining that it is harder for some people to have confidence than others. Some have it easier than others.

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Women are much more forgiving than men when it comes to asthetics. If a guy is dating a 'less attractive' woman, he will hide her away and deny that he's dating her. If a woman is dating a 'less attractive' guy, she will still take him out and proudly show him off to her girlfriends.

 

I think for men and women, personality is more important than looks. But men feel more pressure to have a hot chick to show off.

 

Also, if a man has alot of money, then he has it made. He doesn't need looks or personality. He will still get some sexy bimbo.

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If I was in your position I would have confidence with women too, I mean if women approached ME than I would be much more confident..

 

Listen, it's great when I get approached, but it used to happen all the time and I would screw it up with my personality. You think that this is gonna boost my confidence? I would (and sometimes still do) get discouraged because my personality was what was pushing girls away. And I'm not perfect here, I'm middle eastern and there's definitely a stereotype that I could definitely let myself believe in as a self limiting belief, but I just know it has absolutely no imact on my ability to get girls. It's just not an obstacle for me anymore because I refuse to let some excuse prevent me from getting girls and I've overcome it so many times. And I know the good looks are going to fade, but I don't expect to have any less success with girls because I'll have the skills to go up to and initiate a conversation with a girl. If she shows some resistance, I'll do my best to get around it, and if my "game" is tight, I will.

 

You sound like you have it together when it comes to confidence, but having had girls already approach you couldn't have hurt build that confidence..

My confidence was cut wayyy down as I kept failing with the girls I met, and I had to do a lot of work to build it back up again. This wasn't easy on me.

 

How do you know girls would give you the same attention and chance with them if you didn't have that?.

Because my friend Bobby is worse off in every characteristic than me (looks about a 5) and has way better success than me. And I see these 9-10 guys who completely screw things up and never get girls.

 

Can I ask what gave you confidence besides the fact you've attracted girls before, and that you are good looking?

I don't really take any pride in my looks. I don't depend on them and I put all the pressure on my personality to get girls. And I'm not ultra confident either here, I know I still need work when it comes to the flirting/attraction stage. I would say that I'm not confident in this area.

 

Like if I go to a club and sleep with a girl on the first night because we're both just wasted or whatever, yippie whoopie. I don't find any satisfaction in that because it was all just based on looks. I didn't really have to charm her over time. That's the real battle I wanna fight because I know it's something I can get better at and I also know that it's what really matters when it comes to keeping the girl around.

 

again, I'm not just trying to argue anymore that looks are everything, I'm just explaining that it is harder for some people to have confidence than others. Some have it easier than others.

I will not argue this fact. It takes a lot of research and a real realization to come to the point where you put aside all of the excuses and self limiting beliefs. It took me about three years of lying to myself that all the good looking girls are taken before I broke down and admitted that I need help and I'm willing to listen to those who might be able to help me. Then once you've come to this point, you can start working on how to get girls. And then your confidence will go up on it's own because you're succeeding. And until you get it, you have to fake it.

 

In the end I thoroughly believe this statement because I've just seen too much proof in my life and others, looks can only help you get girls, but it is not necessary to get even the most beautiful ones and an overcomable obstacle. Ugly, poor, short guys get very hot girls everyday.

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Lots of studies have been done on this, and the general conclusion has been that men are more interested in how a woman looks, for child-bearing purposes, and women are more interested in personality as a predictor of whether that man will be able to be strong, protect, and provide. There are exceptions to this rule, of course, but for the most part, that's how humans work, biologically.

 

In my own experience, no guy I've dated has been classically good-looking, but they have all been funny, and had strong personalities. I guess the bottom line is, you can't change your looks, so why not focus on what you can change?

 

I'd also like to note that I know guys that would be an absolute mess on a regular day, but have great clothes, or are great at what they do, or have some really cool hobby that makes them so interesting and fun. This is what it comes down to, in my opinion.

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This is more a commentary than a question. I see that people say "Women care more about personality than how a man looks". I think thats ridiculous!! I mean you dont see Hugo the Hunchback living it up with cheerleaders just because he has a "good personality". They call it attraction for a reason. Physical attraction is the foundation of building the realtionship all other aspects just build upon that! So please, stop saying otherwise.

 

To me attraction is based on a combination of looks and personality. The most lovely features can become ugly to me if the man is wimpy, rude, etc.

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I can't help but be self-conscious about my looks, like many people. The biggest problem is that there has never been any indication that it will change. I know I have to make improvements but how? How can you gain confidence from nothing? I don't believe that faking confidence will work, then you are just being a phony. I just don't believe that women would give me an equal chance as a guy they think is "hot." I mean give me a break, I am a short guy, I know that women overlook me as soon as they see me and look for guys they think are "hot." It is not paranoia I can tell by their body language and behavior. I see how they look and talk to other guys. People here seem to think that women will give ANY guy a chance to prove himself; and that they wouldn't overlook a guy just because they didn't have a physical attraction to? I have never seen/heard anything in real life to make me think that is true. All I see are girls going for the same good-looking guys and those guys eating up all the attention for doing nothing. All they do is put forward minimum effort, less effort than I put in and they get so much more attention. This sounds like complaining but I'm just putting it out like it is.

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So unless a woman and 'less than average' man are FORCED together by work or school projects, etc, there is little chance that the man will ever get to chat and show his wonderful personality to the woman. If I try to talk to a woman, I come accross as creepy and desperate, though I try my hardest not to be. Think of George from Seinfeld, only a lot thinner.

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I can only speak from personal experience, I've dated guys that would be considered "average" to maybe a tad "below average", this would happen after falling for their personality. I know many women are also like this. However, I probably wouldn't have looked at them twice walking down the street, unfortunately, i'm not perfect either - NO ONE IS!!! - Everyone has some flaw/flaws they wish they could improve upon.

 

My point here, the chemistry for these men grew VERY strong after getting to know their amazing personalities. And I'm talking major butterflies here bud!!

I agree 101%

 

The part I bolded is what I, and probably a lot of shy/unattractive/average guys, feel is our downfall. We need to work twice as hard and thrice as long as attractive dudes because we have a strike against us, which is our looks. The Good Lookers, being handsome and all, have that check mark, so basically it's their's to lose. But that is one of the Laws of Attraction that is not our fault, just nature. Most of us feel that way unfortunately.

 

It's not impossible, but it takes time, and the love can be extra special. But I think it would be so much easier to catch a woman's eye, approach her and talk to her instead of "growing on her" and slooooooooowly eliminating that first glance impression.

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