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The horrored answer.


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Ok, so I sent Foxy and email earlier today asking if she got my message, she replied and told me she had gotten it, and that she was busy, then she asked "whats up?"


I answered back with "hey, I was just wondering if you'd like to come grab a drink at the coffee shop with me after I finish work, ....talk to you later, bye "


Her reply after about an hour was "sorry, by the time you finish i have to pick up . besides i'd feel like a perv having coffee with an 18 year old. catcha."




I replied with "lol, ok then...I'm stumped as to why you'd feel like a perv...why would you?"


Now i'm waiting for a response.


This is what I dreaded, I knew it would happen, everyone kept telling me that she may say yes, etc etc etc, but no, I knew something bad would happen, it always does....anyway...her saying she feels like a perv for having coffee with me is kinda weird to say...what do you guys and gals make of it?


I may just give up on her after this...I doubt I'll even be able to look at her tomorrow without feeling like an idiot.

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Hi Shadow,


Not been following your story, sorry, but from this it seems as though she's putting you off in a light-hearted, friendly way. She's saying you're too young for her, and that's non-negotiable. But I think she's saying an 18-year-old Brad Pitt/George Clooney/anyone would be too young for her, so take comfort from that!


Good for you for asking. Don't feel embarrassed about asking, better to have tried and not succeeded than spent months angsting about it and not even asked. She will be fine tomorrow, she will be *flattered* to have been asked out, you just have to shrug it off, play it relaxed - 'can't blame a guy for trying', but leave it at that. Don't be weird or stand-offish with her, just think to yourself that you had the stones to ask her out, feel really good about that!!!



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yeah, thanks.


Well, a while ago, she was very flirty, made many sexual signals and hints, showed signs of interest, but never made a move. I played it cool calm and relaxed, not knowing what to do...kindof like buying time, but unfortunately, over that time, I didn't ask her out, I was too afraid that I was looking into things too much, and then it suddenly slowed down and eventually came to a stand still, she no longer flirts or does any of that any more...and now I guess i've mad a bad move by chasing...only this time, it feels like I only got a few fingers grip on the back of the car as it was driving away, and now i've just slipped off, rather than held on for dear life.


Why is it just so damn hard to find a girl who won't screw me over, who will actually agree, and WILL come out.


In the past, I've always had "I'll think about it" "Maybe" and those ones eventually turned sour on me and went from friends to treating me like dirt, then there were the ones who said "uhm, ok yeah, sure" or "that sounds great", but when it came to the actual date, I found myself waiting on nothing, I ended up sitting there feeling sorry for myself, eventually calling home due to being stood up, then it was "It's not going to work" even though I'd only asked for a casual friendly date...and now... it's "I'd feel like a perv for having coffee with an 18 yr old" and that's probably gonna screw up any chance of even being friends with her...I enjoyed her flirtiness, her attraction, her behaviour towards me....and now it's gone, and I don't have a clue why, then this happens, and I don't even feel like I will be able to look at her tomorrow at training...and then she'll probably go talk to other adults at the martial arts centre about it, and they'll give me crap over it, and I'll end up become just as insecure as I was when I first started training nearly 3 years ago...


I knew that it'd be too good to be true, for her to go out just for coffee...I mean, It's not the end yet, because she may just change her mind, and we may be able to organise another time, but I highly doubt that...just like I doubted she would say yes now...so it'll most likely just go downhill from here unfortunately.


I feel so hopeless.

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Shadow, how old is she? I think she might like you, may have fancied you, but she would not go out with someone as young as you. And that's why she said she would feel like a perve, because she probably does have a soft spot for you, because it would have been a 'romantic' coffee, lol. I don't think she's going to change her mind, though, to be honest.


Don't feel hopeless. No one is laughing at you or going to laugh at you - otherwise, well, the whole world would have to mock everyone in it for asking someone out for a date! I would be flattered, and no one is going to give you grief. Just smile and shrug, be cool and collected tomorrow - and if you don't feel like that inside, just fake it! Honestly, you haven't done anything to be embarrassed or awkward about - you've asked someone out, she's said no, but that's okay. I really think it shows you have determination and guts to follow through on something, so well done for asking her, and now it's time to move on!

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she's 27, has a daughter, and is single.

I'm 18, I don't have a daughter, and am obviously single


I think it's the age difference - at 27, I would not have gone out with an 18 year old. I just wouldn't, it's too big a difference at that particular time. I think the two ages are hugely different, in a way that 37 to 28 isn't. It's not fair, and I know there was a connection, but I think you're at two completely and generally incompatible stages in your life.


So Shadow, take comfort from the fact that, like I said before, I don't think it's *YOU* she's turning down, but rather your age. I don't think you'll change her mind either, to be honest.

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Well, Obviously she knows I didnt ask her out as a friend, because a 29yr old female friend from martial arts doesnt mind having lunch with me on thursdays.

This is coffee..i mean..c'mon..it's just coffee, and she says she'd feel like a perv...


If I asked her about friday night, she wouldnt have an excuse, such as picking upher daughter.

However, I don't want to push it...if she confronts me tomorrow about it, then maybe I'll suggest it, but yeah, I don't mind if she has to pick up her daughter, that's a fair enuogh reason not to go to coffee, but if I ask her about a friday night after training, the only excuse she has is that she will feel like a perv.


Friday nights at the coffe shop accross the road from martial arts, there is nobody around for her to feel paranoid about, thereforeeee she shouldnt feel like a perv...friday night was the original plan I planned to ask her out with anyway...I don't even know why I asked about tuesday, lol.


Should I mention another date, one last time, just to see what sortof thing she says next?


I should get to bed now.


Any suggestions for what to do other than let it go would be nice.

I don't want to chase after her, but I don't want to simply just let it go like I never even cared.


I'll update this thread tomorrow..or later today (as it's 12:20am) on how the day went.


EDIT: btw, I did call her..twice, and I got her answering machine..I've got another post in this forum, read it.

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I think you should drop it... She doesn't want to date you based on what you have posted.... It is obvious you aren't looking for just a "friend". I think by her response to you she is making it clear she does not want to "date" you. I think you are slightly blinded by your desire for her and want someone to tell you to keep pursuing her..... Unless you want to continue to be frustrated and annoyed, I would forget about dating her or asking her out again.

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yeah, thanks, I guess persueing her would only make things worse anyway, It's gonna be hard enough to face her in a few hours...I just hope I wont start feeling all worried and paranoid and stuff...and I hope to god that she doesnt bring up the topic when other people are around...that's the last thing I want to happen.

If she approaches me in private about it...I guess I'll probably just laugh it off and say not to worry about it....


I'll still let you know how today goes, what happens...if anything happens at all.


You say that if she truley was interested, she wouldnt have said those things, I don't think that's true, It could very well be that she is confused about her feelings, and feels like a perv, maybe wants a bit of reassurance, I dunno, but read my next post, it will tell you a bit of her past behaviours, and why i think it's so strange of her to say she'd feel like a perv.


Thanks for your help guys, I appreciate it.

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Ok, so it went better than I thought...although, I wouldnt say it was a good day.

I couldnt stop thinking of her when I was training, and well, kept screwing up techniques, I couldnt concentrate or anything, and worst of all it was like putting a North magnet with another North magnet when it came to going near her and looking at her.


I could hardly glimpse at her, I didn't say hello, neither did she, and she seemed a little uncomfortable when I got close to her (when it was drink break, her bag was right next to mine, so I had to get right next to her to get to my drink, and she dropped her drink, and it was like she didn't want to get near me ....I don't know for sure if it was that, I mean, I wasnt literally staring at her observing her every actions, and perhaps it was me just being paranoid like I usually am, but yeah, it was awkward.

And when it came to cleaning, I didn't want to appear as though I was stand offish or angry at her, because i'm not, usually when I work, I'm right into it, and will only really express emotion when someone talks to me, so basically, I look like I'm not very sociable or happy, until I straighten up to do something (FROM leaning over doing the vaccuming).


She was talking to the other guy who does full time work there, as they are very good friends (he isn't single btw), and well, I didn't want to clean around the desk where they were, because I knew I'd instantly go all tense and stuff, and she probably would aswell. So, I just waited until they were finished before doing that.


So yeah...not much happened, it was just like normal...only more awkward on my side, I don't know how she felt, but yeah, it sucked.


I just don't get it, how could it go from a really happy flirty friendly friendship, to this awkwardness, it's like no matter what I do, it's inevitable, it will always happen with women, I just don't get it. I mean, this is THE FIRST TIME that I have really shown her that I am interested, I just wish I had asked her out earlier, I just wish I could rewind time and go back to when she WAS flirting with me and all of that...unfortunately, that's not possible, and never will be.


I spoke to the guy who works there, who is also a good mate, and we generally like talking about women, lol...actually he was the one who made me think it was alright to date older women, women her age and older.

And well, I forgot how we got onto the topic, but we were in the storage room, and I think he mentioned something about dating older women, and how he would if he was single, and I said "haha what about Foxy?"..and he went on to say something about types of women: "Single women, women who've divorced, and women who have a kid" she's all three" and he went on to say that it would only mean trouble, it's a no go zone for him even if he was single, and if he had sex with her, he wouldnt hear the end of it...


I almost told him I asked her out, but I couldn't, I want to talk to him about it, as he used to go out with 30 yr olds when he was my age...and he may of been able to give me some good advice.


I believe that what she said in her email wasnt exactly like saying "NO WAY!" it wasnt saying "YES WAY" either, by any means, but it made a few questions pop up, like "why didn't she feel like a perv when giving me massages, or being childlike towards me in terms of flirtiness (poking me in the side, and things like that), or even getting right up close to me and adjusting my pants when I got a new uniform, or deliberately trying to leave at the same time I did, just so her and I could have a little talk about whatever..."


See what i'm saying? It's weird, how she could go from all that plus more, to totally ignoring me all together, and then telling me she'd feel like a perv to go grab a coffee with me....out of all the things...I think she'd be more like a perv for adjusting my pants than to simply grab a drink over at the coffee shop, lol.


But anyway...you women work in strange ways...perhaps eventually, I will actually have to ask her about those things that she used to do, and why she did them, and perhaps I could eventually tell her that I was never attracted to her in the first place, and that her actions are what caused my attraction.


Blah...now i'm just thinking way too much.

I really want to just talk to her...but I don't want this to be some big drama.

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If it were me, and I wanted to avoid awkwardness in the class, I'd just act like nothing happened. I wouldn't be all weird and backward, making it obvous that I was uncomfortable with the situation. I'd just smile, say hi, but not pursue anything else. If she runs, that's on her.

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yeah, thats true, I'm not angry at her or anything, I just I dunno, I plan to be a bit more friendly around her now, but not so friendly that I'm a pest, just friendly enough to show her that I'm not being childish about this and avoiding her, because that really is the last thing I want to do, is act childish.

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I had a real good talk to my dad about her, and how I asked her, and what her reaction was, he thinks that she obviously had to have a good think about what to say...


And it made me realise...if she didn't want to, she would of said something that clearly indicates that she doesnt want to.

When she says she would feel like a perv, it just means that she would feel like a perv, not that she wouldnt want to, it tells me that she is insecure about the idea, perhaps unsure about it.


Anyway, I'm really glad I talked to my dad about it, he was really understanding of it all, I didn't expect him to be, but, it was really good to talk to someone in person about it, and have a really deep and meaningful conversation about it, I can't simply give up on her...I'm attracted to her, and I've been attracted to her for half a year now...my attraction went from thinking of her only in a sexual manner, and fantasizing over things happening, like after martial arts she takes me back to her place, and things like that (that was when she deliberately waited for me to leave before she left, so she could talk to me and have time with me), and well now it's more than just sex, I'd never originally fallen for a woman for the sex only, I'd usually just feel good about the thought of doing something as simple as cuddling them, or lying down on the beach with one another watching the sun set, and things like that, and well...now I have those same feelings and thoughts about her, I want to have more than just a sexual relationship with her, and even if there is no sex, I don't care! I just want to be with her...


I don't think that she was trying to let me down softly at all, but rather, was telling me that she was unsure because of that insecurity.

If she didn't have that insecurity, she'd probably say yes.


Anyway, I'll wait for her to reply and tell me why she would feel like a perv, however long that may take...I'll wait a week at maximum for her reply before I send another email her way asking why she would or, saying something else like teasing her about that silly insecurity, and saying that it's just coffee, we're just friends, so why does she feel so insecure about that....


So...if she replies, I'll make a new thread.


Threads of mine always seem to just fade and die really quickly, I think it's because I give alot of details for you guys and gals to work off..but yeah if you would like shorter less detailed versions...let me know.

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Not to be discouraging or anything, but if she really wanted to go hang out, she would have done it. Even if it conflicted with her schedule at the time, she would have suggested another time to go instead. Her remark in my opinion is an evasive way to say she isn't interested. I've known tons of people both girls and guys who do this. They do it to try to not hurt the other person's feelings. Unfortunately if the person doing the asking is smitten, they don't take that as a refusal, but as a temporary road block. Sometimes all it takes is a flat out, "No thanks, not interested."

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I'm sorry to break it down for you, but if I had gotten the kind of reply she sent you, I would have taken it as a "NO WAY" answer. I can see where you're coming from though, you have a mssive crush. I've been there, and I know that at that time you do everything you can to keep up your hopes. I also know that there's really no hope in your case. She was very clear and blunt, and still you somehow managed to convince yourself that she is secretly interested in you and because of your age was hesitant... while actually I think your age is the reason why she is not attracted to you at all. She didn't even try to give any soft excuse, she gave you the cold truth quite put quite harshly - I thought she sounded pretty pissed off with you even, like "what the hell??"


If she had asked you out, would you have turned her down because it felt strange to go out with a 27 year old woman? No way, you would have said "HELL YEAH" and went out with her - because you're interested. She wasn't, so she didn't go out with you. It's easy as that - she isn't interested, and she was very clear about it. I would forget her if I was you, find someone else and whenever you meet her in the martial arts, be polite but avoid contact if you can just make it look natural.

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I think you should definitely work on finding someone your own age. At 27, single, with a daughter, her priorities are going to lie with finding a secure, stable relationship probably with a guy in his early to mid-thirties. She's not going to waste HER time dating someone who cannot provide what she needs in a relationship for where she is in her life.


You should be out with 17 or 18 year old girls, learning about life. You are most certainly NOT in a position to settle with this girl and her child forever (forever is a long time when you're still just a kid at 18 years old) and she, rightfully, doesn't want to spend time in a relationship that can't go anywhere.


You'll find someone your own age who makes you happy!

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ok, what's confusing me though, is why she flirted with me in the first place, and carried on, made sexual signals, I didn't even feel attracted to her at first until she did these things...thing that would be considered more of a perverted act than...having coffee.


I know what you are all saying, it keeps going through my head...and my focus isn't just on her either, there are other women that I am interested in, one at the bar..a waitress that I think is interested in me, but I'm not going to do anything about, because, well, my mind says one thing, my instincts say another.

Just like it did with the 27yr old...my instincts said she was attracted to me, she was trying to get my attention..but my mind said "no she isn't you nutter, she probably is still married, she probably has a boyfriend" then my instinct would say "why don't I ever see that boyfriend or man around here..why doesnt she ever talk about him like most wives do?"...well, seems as though she WASNT married at the time, she didn't and still doesnt have a boyfriend, and as far as common sense goes, she WAS attracted to me, and really was trying to get my attention, I just wish I showed her my attraction back.


Girls my age...all they want to do is go out, get drunk, hook up with random guys...I can't find a girl my age that is mature! I'm not kidding, it's ridiculous!


The 27 yr old knows me from martial arts, everyone knows her and I...she has very good reason to be hesitant about this, I was aswell, I felt that same perverted feeling when she was flirting and carrying on with me...and I did nothing, because I thought I was just fantasizing...when it was all very real.


As for talking to her in class...all day yesterday, and all last night and this morning, while lying in bed, tossing and turning, waking in pain (my foot!) and going back to sleep again, and doing that all night...I kept telling myself to stop being a wuss, be a man, do what I used to do, approach her, talk to her, get rid of this little silence we have, so doing something as simple as saying "hi, how are you" will do just that.

And I'm also considering asking her out for friday, and saying that I'm not taking no for an anwer...although..that's only a consideration, not something I will actually do.

I have to get ready to go now.

Thanks for your help guys and gals, I think I may actually have to end up asking her straight out "does she want to go out, or is she scared to go out".

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She is not interested in you... I think you should move on... In the least, back off for now and see if she might come back to you and start flirting again. It is possible she was interested before but is no longer interested. Based on what you said, I think you should focus your energies elsewhere

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And I'm also considering asking her out for friday, and saying that I'm not taking no for an anwer...although..that's only a consideration, not something I will actually do.



you're obsessing - been there, done that. I had once the chance to go out with a girl who was incredibly attractive, smart, shared similar values to me - in short as perfect as a girl can get, but I decided to obsess over my old crush, keep up my hopes when there was no hope, and that caused me never to actually make the move with the other girl (mind you, it was 100% that she would have said yes and it probably would have worked out as well). You can guess if I regretted it later.

Don't make the same mistake! Get over that woman, she rejected you so it's time to stop thinking about her alltogether!

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This post may be long,...I've got absolutely zero energy, and almost didn't bother writing this because of my lack of energy right now. So please bare with me.


why do you say she rejected me...I've been rejected MANY many times, and they were straight out rejections, or girls who say they'll think about it, and then they call me, write me a letter or somethign saying no...straight out no.


She said "sorry" and she said she had to pick up her daughter...fair enough, I take that as a no, I'm not so bothered with going out with her at the moment, I would just like to find out why she feels like a perv?


Anyway...I had a horrible day...at martial arts, I'm the belt before black belt in my specific martial art, I've been doing it for 3 years now, and well, the midday class, there were only 3 people...one guy who is in his 40's I think, and he actually looks up to me, he's literally said that i'm like his mentor in there, I find that to be such a great thing to have said to me, I don't like to think of myself as a better person or a worse person, I treat people equally...anyway..there was him, he's fairly tall, and we are always paired up..there is another girl in there who's 19, has one eye, who I reckon is attracted to me, I don't think she could make it any clearer...but how great that I am just not interested, not attracted to her at all..


anyway, we were starting the warmup...I looked accross and I saw the woman I like, she had been to the beach by the looks of it, she had her board shorts, wet hair, short top, I felt like melting...and I was happy in a way, I actually could look at her, and smile, we all looked accross at her and smiled a laughed for being late...but I felt down before that, I felt like she wasnt coming to train today.


Maybe that would of been better though...I screwed up every single little technique, I couldnt do take downs properly, heck, I was embarrassed, felt a lump in my throat, and the more the instructor helped me out, the more she made my emotions worse...(I seriously need a break from the place), I was almost about to cry, but I just sucked it up, held it in, didn't cry...especially with the 28 yr old there...but I have some serious...SERIOUS paranoia issues, I felt like I was possibly being cocky, arrogant, ignorant...I know that I wasnt, but at the time I felt like it, and at the time I thought "there is no hope in hell of being with her now...I'm being stupid"...but I wasnt being stupid, I was trying to keep a positive mood and attitude.

The guy I was with...lets call him H (first letter of his first name) the big guy, 40 ish yr old who calls me his mentor, he was doing something I wanted him to, I didn't want him to easily let me take him down to the ground with the moves, I wanted him to make it hard for me, because in reality, nobody is going to just let me take them down...but no matter how hard I tried, I couldnt take him down, and he felt bad about it....then there was a little discussion about how I need to work on technique, and then she brought up the fact that I was the belt before black belt, it was almost like she only said it to piss me off...that lowered my hopes even more...so yeah..it was a crap day...nothing went right at all..


And that very morning I was awake in bed until about 2am thinking, and then thinking some more, and then I kept waking, and falling asleep because my foot was killing me! (injury) and it was also cold aswell...so I was pretty out of it at training.


At the end of the night, it was time for my class to do...and what do you know...ANOTHER mistake...I was being courteous, as usual, we all had to line up and one of the black belts were out the front having to instruct (she's not used to doing it, so the normal instructor was helping her) and I left a spot for her in the line up...so then the normal instructor who is apparently my good friend (outside of martial arts) gets all serious and says "WHY is there a gap in the lines, there shouldnt be a gap" I said "I left it for " and then I got roused on again...It's annoying the hell out of me, all I do is good, and all I get is SH*T shovelled back in my face...

I don't want to sound like an easily angered person, but lets just say I havent let my steam off...for a very long time....anyway, that's...nothing, that's stupid, it's negative


Well..yeah as I was saying, it's the end of the night, and we're doing training in the same class together...we had a little bit of eye contact on a few occasions, nothing major, but i'm happy that I could actually look at her...I also noticed her staring into space a few times (thinking look), looking at the ground kindof thing...doesnt mean she was thinking about me of course, but yeah...it was possible.


Right now, I just want to get talking to her again...something happened somewhere along the line, and whether I like her, or she doesnt like me liking her, we have no reasons just to be friendly to one another..I mean...really, what happened? nothing much, I asked her in a friendly way, not a way that was telling her that I was desperately in need of love or whatever..I just asked casually...and she pointed out an insecurity as if I asked her out on a date...it's hardly a date..it's just coffee...the woman i was talking about before that instructs and kept making me feel worse in training, I have lunch with her every thursday...she's a 29 year old, divorced woman, and we have great conversations...she doesnt feel weird about it, there is no reason to, heck, I even asked if I could talk to her this thursday about some things, and I said to talk about it over lunch..she didnt feel weird about it, she treated me as a friend, and there was no difference between that and asking the woman I like just to go out and have coffee...

It's...so stupid.

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Dude, you seriously sound like you're obsessing in a very unhealthy way. I'd suggest finding another martial arts school to go to or some other sort of hobby or class you can take so she is no longer in your environment since you seem to be unable to function with her in the same room. Geez, she's just another person, settle your frantic self down.

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