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how to move toward intimacy without being in a relationship


JimmerJammer
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hey all,

 

i recently made a few posts about a girl i was persuing and needless to say, i've decided to leave her alone for the time being.

 

now i'm becoming more familiar with myself and there's some things that just don't make sense. for me, sex is an amazing thing and its even more amazing when shared with someone who embraces it for the ecstatic capacity it holds. to me love and loving is NOT trivial to me and i do not look at "hooking up" with someone as an end to justify the means. because i don't very much like that idea of having your typical ONS of drunken 20 min sex. that sort of demeans what sex is about and that's what bugs me about all this.

 

i don't want to come off like the player, hooking up with women for ONS and i don't want to look like i'm looking for a relationship right away by holding back. so where's the go between? i'm starting to understand that physical intimacy can lead to a relationship and to me that's fine as i want to be in a relationship, but i'm more about not faking or hiding my natural being because i'm worried that will scare them away.

 

so what do i do then? because i'm not suggesting here that i don't want a relationship and i'm not suggesting that i'm not capable of having a relationship. i'm more interested at this point in wanting to express myself, my desires and go for it fully instead of half-committed and making excuses for myself. if that makes sense.

 

because i'm having a really hard time putting it into proper words without it sounding not how i want it to. to me, i want intimacy and feeling close to someone in that matter. i can't stand the thought of intimacy without the shared feeling of oneness it can bring. the detachment strikes me as nothing more than shared masterbation and i can do without that thanks. oh and if this is too much for people to listen to, it only shows why this is so hard. no pun intended (lighten up geez lol)

 

i've had countless girls tell me they thought i was looking too much into having a relationship because i was holding back and that only came from wanting to take things slow and feel closer to them. in the end, they didn't "feel" anything because i've played it safe so many times. and i've had it where i was intimate with someone and then the next day the chemistry and attraction was "gone". to which i just thought it was from moving too quickly, when in fact now i believe its because there was no closeness. yet there have been some girls where i feel REALLY close to even though i don't know them well (attraction?) and those are the ones i've been noticing myself taking it slow with.

 

and now i'm just wondering how i go about doing this. its like i want a relationship sure, i want to be close and intimate with someone yes, but i hate putting it out there to like every girl i come in contact with. if i were to say what i really am looking for, would that help? i mean how do you basically say you're not expecting anything or making any expectations, but that you're open to the possibilities should they come up as they come up. like in this case i don't want to make things definite, like me and her going somewhere MEANS its this or doing this MEANS that, but have it being based more on how we both feel in that moment. if this makes sense?

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Actually, I think making your desires for a relationship known are important. Putting it out there... as in, your feelings and needs, is the best way to do this. There's nothing wrong with saying you want to hold off on sex so you can concentrate on getting to know one another. Tell someone that you want a deeper bond before you get physical. Make it clear that you aren't looking for just a friend though.

 

In the end, if someone isn't looking for the same thing in a relationship, at least you laid your cards on the table and they can be upfront to you. It's better to know than not. You can then focus on people that are on your same wavelength.

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it was just seeming like the reason for my holding back was rather foolish in the eyes of love and union. to me i'm starting to change who i am to be more of who i am. i hold back a lot thinking that there can be this trade-off between two people. i like you, do you like me? i used to be that way and i hate it now because i actually prefer expressed feelings more than logical understanding. like as if once i've satisfied some understanding that THEN it means i can show acts of love, does that not sound improper or is that just me?

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i'm confused. So you do want to wait to have sex with a girl until you are in a relationship?

or you want to let things happen as they may, like you might have sex with no relationship or you might wait until you know you want a relationship to have sex.

 

You just don't want to make any decisions about the future?

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i don't want to build up expectations thinking it has to be that way. i basically don't want to lead them on and i don't want to hold back either.

 

i want a relationship, but i don't know who with. i want a wife, but i don't know who that is. does that mean the first girl i meet is going to be that person? no, so i don't want to make the expectation that *this girl i'm interested in is going to be that person, but i don't want to rule her out either. (*this girl, meaning any girl i'm attracted to and am trying to get to know better)

 

essentially holding back or building up expectations doesn't exactly help both of us either because with one i'm not being true to myself and the other i wouldn't be true to them.

 

i don't want to make any decision about the future that can be true in the moment and then not down the road.

 

more or less the girls that i didn't get to move forward with are the ones that say that it seemed like i was pushing or wanting a relationship when they weren't sure they were ready for one. like there was too much like thats what i wanted when i'd rather it work out where we fall into one, not so much that its expected that i'll only be with them if it leads there.

 

see what i mean now? because i've gone two different directions now. one where i reserved myself completely until SHE told me what she wanted or hoping that SHE'D lead me into one. to which it would just become a bad situation and i'd feel heartbroken. then there's the other way where i've been upfront with what i wanted and where i wanted things to go, being more protective of myself and not opening fully until she'd open up. and i've noticed both haven't gotten me any closer to what i really want as it seems to be scaring them away. (their words too)

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I dated a guy who thought like you.

I wanted a relationship after a couple of months of taking things slow but he didn't have expectations. He held back emotionally. He didn't hold back physically because of the high he got from it and the feelings of attachment he felt at that moment. He didn't want to make decisions about the future but he wanted to marry someone soon.

I thought he was indecisive and a commitmentphobe.

When a guy moves fast I think he only wants sex.

When a guy holds back I think he wants to take things slow and feel close to me and he's expecting a relationship. When guys don't want to expect anything, they don't think about taking things slow. They let things go at their own pace. When you decide you want something serious to happen or when you are sure the entire situation will not lead to anything, then you should let the girls know. If they're not ok with your decision, then those girls aren't for you.

NJRon is right lay your cards on the table.

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it seems to be harder than it is i suppose. what makes it harder for me to understand is that i'm told all the time that i'm a fantastic guy and am quite attractive. and the problem isn't that i couldn't become committed or make a decision because i know already that i'm looking for someone to eventually settle down with.

 

but i also know that at this stage in my life i also have a lot of things to take into consideration and if no one person is special, well then i don't want to remain single until i'm done getting my life in order and i don't want to not have a relationship with someone i eventually would like to have one with.

 

because how many times has that happened where one says they don't want a relationship with someone and then down the road they feel that they do want one because they've been getting closer to them. then because they already said they didn't want one, that it won't happen now. i don't want to go through that if i can avoid. but what then, does that mean i have no choice?

 

cuz to me i have a pretty strong idea of what i want and am looking for, who fits that role though is whoever happens to. i'm also very flexible with who that person is in the sense that i'm not desperate for a relationship or to find that person nor am i so eager to find them that i'll take the first sign of what appears to be the one i'm looking for.

 

and the other thing is that i've been upfront and layed all my cards on the table. i did it with the last girl i made posts about, but it never went anywhere. she said she wanted to be exclusive and i said i was happy to keep it that way and see where it would go. but when i made a "date", she'd never be there when i called. i couldn't tell if we were still being exclusive or what. not like i ever asked her if we still were, but come on she never called or kept through with her word for the entire time since she said she'd be exclusive with me. this has happened more than a few times now too, so its no wonder i'm confused here.

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If a girl you like but you're not sure about asks about the relationship you can say

"I like how things are casual right now but I *am* open to something more developing between us."

You can mention this when you talk about relationships with any girl you're attracted to. Just say "Whenever I date anyone usually start off keeping things casual but I am always open to something more developing between me and the other person."

 

In essense, you're letting her know you're not in love with her now but you eventually could fall in love with her. And you won't fight it if you do.

 

After reading your reply, you don't think exactly like my ex-date after all. I understand you don't want to make pre-mature decisions about something you value.

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and what do i do about the fact that the last 3 girls have seemed cool about that, but that they would start flaking on me (not answering my calls, not being there when they said they would). its not even like they ask about the supposed relationship. i don't even press it when these things happen and the times when i do address it they seem to do it again shortly after. and then i'm left there wondering, do i go after other girls now or what?? then i leave them alone for a while.

 

and now here i am again.

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It really isn't that hard. If you are looking for a woman to be your wife, saying that you are looking for a committed relationship does not imply that the person will become your wife. It does at least let them know that you aren't looking for something with "no expectation". If you want something, make it clear. If you go in wishy-washy... well.. what are you relaly looking for anyway?

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i had expressed to the last 3 girls i tried dating that i was interested in being exclusive. 2 of them said they would agree to it, but then when it came time to make dates and hang out, they'd never pick up or be around when they said tehy would. they just began being very flakey with me. so rather than bring it up, i've left them in the dust.

 

not even by really wanting to either, especially the latest girl. i was really bummed out about that cuz i had a really strong connection with her when i first looked into her eyes. even when getting to know her i found myself being interested in what she was saying and found myself wanting to be with her more. to which i expressed this by asking to be exclusive with her. BUT it seems when i bring that up or when i bring up the times they'd flake that they'd say why but that it'd start happening shortly after.

 

any ideas as to what's going on there? or maybe i wasn't persuing or being assertive/aggressive enough?? i felt i was doing the right thing for myself by moving on when encountering this, but should i bother calling any of them back when this happens? or how upfront do i need to be with the next girl??

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You aren't making it clear *when* you are bringing this up. It almost sounds like you are bringing it up before even asking them out. It sound slike you told the first two you were looking for an exclusive relationship before actually having a date, and then the third, it sounds as if you asked to be exclusive after one or two dates.

 

Could you expand?

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see this is why i'm lost. but you actually picked up on it pretty good my friend.

 

i don't usually "kiss and tell" for this reason as my friends hear what i say and they go "eh???". in this case the first girl i didn't even bring up anything about dating or exclusivity, yet it was talked about as she told me all about how she just broke up with her bf and it was serious and all that. so with that i was like whoa u don't need to tell me all this, if u want to simply try hanging out and seeing where it goes i'm fine with that. she sounded happy and better and i hugged her. she smiled, we made out later that evening and then i never heard frmo her again.

 

the second girl i didn't even bring up anything about dating right away but more that i didn't know her well and wanted to get to know her better. she thought i meant as friends to which i meant, well no just you and me, but i wasn't suggesting getting involved right away because i didn't know her well. but in my communication i must have come accross differently? as she thought i was looking for a relationship when she wasn't even sure what she wanted at that point. so i didn't bother talking to her anymore after it seemed pretty evident that she wanted it that way. VERY confusing because i didn't feel i was really giong after anything and then later i find out from her that she thought i was and that my friend told me she was "glad i got off her back" when she had heard i was persuing some other girls.

 

now the latest girl i tried hanging out with (more than once) seemed to be more receptive and i played it cool to which my friends would all tell me to tell her that i wanted to be exclusive with her so to "strike while the iron is hot". to which i thought well i was just going to play it cool, but i haven't ever done that before so i'll try. and so i did, after having kissed and made out a few times i brought it up that i was interested in trying to date each other more and being exclusive. she said yes and to which i took her word for it. i wasn't exactly sure about that decision to tell that to her, but i honestly did want it and i didn't really care if it ruined it or not, i'm more interested in ending up with someone i care about as opposed to a particular, "special" person i'm afraid of losing.

 

that's why i feel if i put too much into it, it'll leak onto that person and i don't want them thinking i'm pushing for more than what i really am looking for nor do i want them thinking i don't have enough interest in them. i generally am relaxed and non-challant both when i'm really interested in them and when i'm not.

 

and because i know that there's always another girl aroudn the corner, i don't get too caught up in one particular girl. except in this case this girl really did catch my eye, yet i have no problem dating another girl atm. i didn't want to do that, but it looks like i'm single once again.

 

does that help?

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1. Rebound... move on.

 

2. She didn't know what she wanted.. confusion.. move on...

 

3. Sounds like three hasn't gone away here.

 

--------

 

Don't jump your guns yet, clarify your situation with girl #3. I don't know how long ago it was, but I do know that when I was dating more than one person (I don't do that anymore because of these exact same issues) that when you want to become exclusive, and the other person agrees, they have to break it off with the others.

 

However, more to the point, you talk to exclusivity. That sounds controlling. Speak of committment. You can tell people early that you are looking for a committed relationshihp, without bringing up the "Now it's time to choose or you die" thing. It is also more "mutual" sounding.

 

People go into the relationship with the same expectation that they are seeking a committed relationship.. yet know that they are not necessarily committed then. Later, you speak of exclusivity.

 

And if you don;t want to date another girl at the moment.. then don't... you don't have to date just because you are single. Hang out for a little while.

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ya its not really a problem being single. i've told friends how much easier it is being single, but i do feel how lonely it can be coming home alone at night. it doesn't bug me a great deal, but i can take or leave a relationship at this point without much added stress to myself.

 

i mean u know how it is hey? people get mixed up in what a relationship means so all of a sudden someone feels that a relationship is like a trap. their freedom is no longer there and it can get complicated. that's why i don't want all that typical BS that couples go through with relationships and feel that it doesn't have to be that way. but that's where i become a rather bit ambivalent when it comes to these things. it honestly would be really great to get involved with this girl, but i'm not TOO bothered by the fact that it hasn't gone anywhere. if this is just going to take a long time, i really am not in any rush at this point as i'm rather focused around my career and developing myself more so than finding a mate.

 

so at this point i'm not going to go out and try incessantly to find a gf or a date for friday, as i usually am the type to approach a girl when i'm already out doing something else and/or she catches my eye. its not like i really go out looking for dates so much. i'm usually so involved in my own world that i only occasional try to include a girl into it when i see one that i want to get to know better.

 

now what do i do about her then? i was simply going to leave her be and not expect much more from this situation, but do u feel differently?

 

and ya when u mention the aspect of being controlling or how saying something can come accross like that. i try to be conscious of it and find myself not bringing it up because i don't want to be controlling. i try to think of things that have the aspect of what the intended result of being controlling would lead to, but without the negative aspect to it. so a more mutual approach as you'd call it. only my skill in that department isn't exactly up to par, so i never know how to express it without worry it'll come accross as controlling or a situation that has a positive/negative spin on it instead of positive/positive.

 

i was just going to continue on doing my thing and persue the next girl that comes along, but if u feel there's still potential between me and this girl. i'll give it a chance. i'm interested to know though in what i would do next.

 

cheers again for all the help and input you've given. very helpful indeed.

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Well, since the girls seem to be dropping like flies here... go ahead and don't hold yourself back

 

I'm just saying make it known you are looking for a committed relationship.. but not on the first date, unless they bring it up... like the second or third. DON'T use the word exclusive until you find out if they are looking for a committed relationship.

 

If you are on the same page with the commitment thing... you can then move forward a bit. Anyone looking for commitment will know that exclusivity is part of the deal.

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