when issues are too much for love

[abbett]

thanks for the response. i think that's a good idea. i turned my cell phone off. not that she calls it anyway. i'm just not going to respond for the weekend. i always respond so she knows i'm not ignoring her. but ignoring her might be exactly what i need to do - for myself.

 

 

[Beec]

How long you do it for, that's your choice. But listen to some messages if she calls, when she sounds real nervous and is missing you, then you know she does. We have to miss things in order to appreciate when they are there.

 

You need to find the right balance. The balance point often moves, and it sure won't be where it was before.

[WalkingWithGod]

You are going to have to be extremenly patient. It will probably take years for her to recover from all of the trauma during her developmental years. I would guess if she is lucky it will take 10 years. Meanwhile she will need to develop deeply loving and caring relationships that are long term and pseudo familial relationships with people who are not having sex with her and who genuinely care for her and don't just give into her every desire. She will probably not really trust anyone for many years and she will have particular trouble trusting those who are closest to her because they are the most dangerous. Many women who have gone through situations like this will ask for a lot of stuff either because it is one of the few things that make them feel in control or because it is one of the few things that make them feel loved, but she will need to learn what love is like away from stuff. If you give her a lot of stuff she will probably start to think she either controls you in which case she won't respect you or you are her father in which case you can't be her boyfriend. If you have sex with her she will assume you are an abuser or this is the only reason you love her. She will also probably let you abuse her and maybe even encourage you to, because she probably doesn't think that highly of herself and will be scared if someone truly loves and takes care of her. She will be scared because she thinks it will make her too vunerable. She can easily fake passion and love, but the real thing will be locked tightly inside of her heart. Please do not let her live this fake love. It will only eat at her more and make it harder for her to really be loved and appreciate love. I am probably being too presumptious here, but I have seen this kind of thing quite a bit.

[abbett]

i appreciate your response, but i don't know what to do with it - how to incorporate it. it's seeming more and more complicated. i've been "taking care" of her for 6 months.......and i just want love and i want someone to love me back........is she even capable? i don't want 10 more years of this.

[Beec]

You had a relationship with her that went wrong. It went wrong for multiple reasons, one of which was your codependency. You can stop trying and move on, or try again to build something that's more solid. But to try again, you need to go back to the beginning. And that's you call.

 

I like some of WalkingWithGod's comments, but I cannot speak to a real abuse victim or how they think and feel. I dated one for a while and loved her. She immigrated and lived with an uncle's (maybe a great uncle)family. And he was always trying to "get in her bra" as she explained it. I did not ask how far or what happened. And his wife hated her, for getting abused by her husband, when she should of hated him for what he did. My biggest issue was that I felt she treated me like a verbal punching bag. I was not the person she should have been yelling at, but she wanted to yell. Anyway, I do think of her, I care about her, in some way I love her (but I am not in love with her), but we could not seem to interact in what I felt was a healthy manner. So, I ended it, sadly.

 

You may get there, but you are just beginning to try to develop a new relationship with her. If you continue or not, it's your choice.

 

if you don't continue, I would suggest you let her know that you will be there as a friend, when she needs one.

[abbett]

thanks, guys......i sometimes wish i was her verbal punching bag or something......it might make it easier to walk away. my problem is that she seems to have NOTHING to say. even if i ask about what she is thinking of feeling. there's just not much of a response. does she never think of what we are going through? how can she really love me? i like your quote about love is not an affectionate feeling - it's about wanting good things for the person you love, wanting them to be happy. i feel i have really loved her. i have wanted her to be happy, to be safe, to be ok. i sometimes feel like her "love" for me is just an affectionate feeling - not so much about wanting me to be happy and healthy. why is it so hard to say, "hey, baby.......how was your day? what did you do today?"

 

maybe i've loved someone who just can't love me back.

[Beec]

Well, I'd be one of the first people to tell you to stop talking about the relationship, especially at your stage. There are only really two times to talk about it. One, when something is way wrong and you've tried other things, or other things are not options; or, two, when you are as happy as a cat with free reign over a bunch of opened tuna cans. It's not something I do or would recommend. If you want someone to do change how they act, the direct confrontational apporach is not always the way to go. Sometimes, not often.

 

You are rebuilding something that needed to be torn down. Take your time, get it right, and if it's not going up right, then make changes or stop.

[WalkingWithGod]

If you can't wait it out 10 more years then you need to let her go. I just broke up with a girl that was in a similiar situation. She had a lot of support from people around her, and it still took her three years to develop the confidence and emotional stability to hold down a good job long term. I don't know if you have tried to care for someone with this much trauma. If you haven't been through it it is hard to comphehend how much trauma is actually there. Even though she was able to keep down a job it was still basically impossible for her to really trust anyone and trust is a big part of love. Every person is different, but I seriously think it will take a long time for her to be able to have an deep loving relationship.

[abbett]

this weekend was really hard. and i don't know what's going on. friday, i told her that even though we were still talking, i was not feeling as connected to her and she said, "im sorry". then i later sent her a message, upset that she just wasn't having any real comment. and i told her that we weren't in a relationship if she could not talk with me about things.......i mean, we were hardly talking anyway and when i expressed a negative feeling, she wouldn't talk with me about that either. we each have myspace pages. when we broke up last week, i changed mine to single and she changed hers to divorced. later, she changed it to single and by midweek last week, she changed it to in a relationship again. so i told her that she might as well take that off because we weren't in a relationship if she could not discuss things with me. that's being in a relationship. all day long, she didn't respond, but that afternoon, she went to her myspace page and said put divorced again! that was just so hurtful! divorce, to me, means it's over over. it was just insulting. and it upset me even more that instead of talking with me about anything, she just would rather do that. so i was upset and sent her a short message letting her know. she messaged me back that i said we weren't in one and to change her myspace status so she did so don't be mad at her. well, i wasn't mad that she changed it. i was mad that she would rather change it than be a better communicator with me.

 

yes, she has issues, but she's communicated well with me before! when we've had hard times or i've been unhappy, she's wanted to work it out before. it's just the last several weeks, it's like she's given up.......she no longer wants to communicate. but, she wants a relationship at the same time! i can't do that.

 

anyway, so i messaged her back and said that we weren't in a relationship because she doesn't communicate with me, she doesn't seem to want to see me, she doesn't seem to make us a priority.......she just disappears when something needs to be discussed. i told her that i was starting to realize that i deserve better and that there is nothing positive keeping me here.

 

she never responded. that was saturday morning. it's been 2 days. she's not responded and i've not tried to communicate with her.

 

but now i am worried. i'm worried because she lives 2 hours away and i have no idea how she might be doing. she's not been on myspace since friday night.......her cell phone is turned off. she tried to kill herself in april.

 

i don't know what to do.

 

thanks

[Beec]

abbett, don't you see that she did not want to talk about the things you wanted to talk about. Pushing and pushing her to talk about the things she does not want to discuss is not going to make her want to talk about them. You were just pushing to have your way. Stop it. It will drive her away more than anything.

 

Want a good move, leave her alone for a while, then send her a message, that says that no matter what happens, you willc are about her and lvoe her, even if you are not together. You will always want the best for her, and if and when she wants to talk to you, she knows where and how to find you. Done. And then really leave her alone.

[abbett]

hi....i have little update and it's right on with what beec said. i have all these conflicting emotions. i try to understand where she is and how she is feeling and where she's coming from.....but then i get caught up in the fact that i love her and am trying to talk to her and if she loved me, she'd want to talk......i haven't really realized why she isn't wanting to talk. i don't understand it. mostly because we've never been to this place before. we've always talked, even when it's been hard. i'm not used to a total shutdown. after not communicating over the weekend, i was worried about her. she tried to kill herself in april (altho her therapist thinks it was mostly to get attention in her case) and i just worry sometimes about her - especially if i don't hear from her. i wasn't too surprised i didn't hear from her but she had not signed onto myspace either and i was just concerned. so i decided to call her at her mother's yesterday. her stepfather answered and said she was not home. he asked if i had a message and i told him that i was coming down to bring her stuff. i wasn't really wanting to return her stuff but i thought going down there would be the only way i would know she was ok. if something to her, i know her mother would not call me.

 

anyway, so an hour later, after i was on my way, she texted me and asked what was happening. i told her i was comign with her stuff so we arranged to meet.

 

something came up about her caring and she said she cared so much she could not handle all this. then she said that she could not handle my thoughts, beliefs, and requirements (by that she means the thoughts and beliefs i have of her when she won't talk to me and i try to figure out how she feels).

 

so, we met and i decided to get in the car with her.......because i felt we might not have the chance to talk again.......and we talked some. she just seemed very ambivalent. she said she loved me and was in love with me but that she could not handle all the drama. and she was crying. she said she had enough drama living with her mother and trying to get a job and she could not handle my drama as well.

 

i pointed out that i felt one of the problems was her mother not knowing we were still talking, thereforeeee she was having to hide us.......i guess that's just one of my problems. anyway, she got very emotional and told me she wanted to be alone and i asked her what she wanted from me and she said nothing. that she didn't want anything. i tried hugging her because she was so upset and she was sort of pushing me away and i told her that i loved her, that i was sorry, and that i wanted to support her and she said she didn't want any support.

 

things got a little calmer and we drove to a nearby lake - we had been sitting in a parking lot. nothing really happened at the lake. i tried hugging her and she hugged me but was distant.

 

anyway, we came back to my car to part ways and i was very upset. she seemed upset and i asked her if she was and she said she didn't know what was happening or going to happen with us. she had earlier told me that she didn't want to lose me but if that's what happened that's what happened - that she could not deal with all this with us with everything else in her life going wrong.

 

anyway, so my parents live near there, and they don't really know i have been seeing her. my dad does but my mom doesn't - when i first started dating her, they were concerned and my mom was really upset so i've been waiting to my gf got in a better place to talk about it again. anyway, i wanted to go by there so badly and get support but i was afraid because i've not really shared much about her with them.

 

my mom was not home and my dad was and we talked for an hour and a half or 2 hours and he was so supportive and understanding. and instead of blasting her like some of my friends, he was trying to understand her so that he could help me understand better.

 

he helped me realize, like you guys, that what her issues are and her current struggles, she just can't handle what she perceives as pressure from me - and my dad also pointed out that i was analyzing too much. beec, you have said i want to talk about our relationship too much with her. and he pointed out how that can kill things.

 

he said a lot of other stuff. i can't remember right now. but it helped and made sense. he told me i just needed to let her know that i was sorry and that i had been out of line and all that. which i did. i sent her an email, cause i can't call her. and i talked about light stuff - that i had been doing (she seems to respond a lot better to that).

 

i had also told my dad how she had said she was really stressed that she was unable to get a job altho she had applied so many places and how living with her mother is getting worse. i was surprised because he actually suggested maybe she could come live with me and we could try that.

 

so i told her in that same email that since she had seen a lot of jobs in my town, if she wanted to apply for them, she was welcome to come live with me. i thought it would help her get a job and be in a better environment. and i thought it might help us because part of our issue is this whole long distance thing. when we are together, things are a lot better.

 

anyway, she didn't respond to any of that email. but she did text me and say "hi" and then we chatted for a few mins. she had to sign off her computer for a little bit but came back on and texted my phone again. i was away from a signal so i missed it but i got it later.......and when she saw i couldn't respond she sent another one telling me goodnight and she ended it with

 

so my dad helped me to understand that she feels very overwhelmed with her life right now and her issues and they probably don't have anything to do with me but since we've been having problems and i keep wanting ot talk about it, she just might not can handle all that right now with everything else. i've been taking that so personally from her - like she just doesn't love me or care about me enough to talk - like we don't mean enough to her.

 

she did tell me that out of all the stressful things in her life, i am the one thing she does not have to deal with. she has to deal with her mother because she lives with her, she has to deal with not having a job becasue she has to get a job........but she doesn't have to deal wtih me.

 

so i'm going to try hard, again!, to realize that she loves me. and that might have to be enough for me right now. at least i can take comfort in that and that despite everything, she is still talking to me.

 

i have to try really hard not to push her.......but it's hard.......because like everyone, i have my own issues.......and it's hard to turn off my issues when she seems to stir them up.

 

so what do you think of this development? what she said and what i have said and am now thinking.

[abbett]

p.s.: i was also telling my dad how i felt as though she was pushing me away. and he said she might be testing me. he pointed out that everyone in her life has left her. her mother is her one constant but she's the root of all my gf's problems and is just a miserable person who makes my gf miserable. anyway, she's talked with me before in the context that people leave her - she has said before how so and so said they loved her and left and so so and said they loved her but then cheated on her, etc., etc.

 

i feel like some of this might be a test - maybe not even a conscious test on her part. and i just might be testing her, too - you know? i think we are both pushing each other away......but yet we love each other.

 

anyway, i just wanted to see if you guys thought that might be entering into it, too.

[Beec]

Well, it seems unchanged. Except for what's inside of you.

 

You are realizing what is going on inside of her. Don't force her to be, don't force relationship on her. Well, you are getting this.

 

But, let's look at what you can ask of her, because you are now realizing you should not be asking her a lot. One, you can probably ask her to let you know she is alive and kicking. You can ask for some contact from her, just to keep you posted, because you care about her and begin having awaful thoguths if you don't hear from her. So, let's ask her to do one thing to keep your anxieties about her down. If she complains about that, she is a deep trouble emotionally. Do this jokingly, with most of the joke being about your anxeties.

 

Otherwise, I don't have much to say. You are beginning to see her thoughts. How she feels is all that matters in her coming back to you. If she comes back and you no longer want her, that's a different story, that's how you feel, then.

[abbett]

thanks, beec. i the changes are in and will have to be within myself - at least at first. i have to stay strong and remember to not freak out and overanalyze and just take care of myself and be her friend. i think that's what she really wants right now more than anything.

 

she finally did talk with me about my proposal to her to look for a job in my town and live with me (paying rent and utilities of course). that would give her more job options, get her out of her mother's house, and bring us closer together physically.

 

she asked about my current roommate - he'll be moving out in december. she asked how my mom would feel. when i alleviated those concerns she told me that she was afraid her mother would not let her take the car and she needed to get some more payments in on it first (her mother loaned her the money to buy it and she is repaying her mother $200 a month but the title is in her name). i questioned how her mother could stop her since it's legally her car.

 

she then went on about how her mother is all she has. she has no one else to fall back on. she said she was afraid her mother would tell her that if i kicked her out, she could not come back and live with her (her mother is this cruel). i reminded her that her mother had never done that before, but she said she can't go by the past - she does that too much as it is (i don't know what that was in reference to).

 

then she told me that an ex coworker of hers told her that the painting crew he works with might need another worker and how that might work out for her. my initial reaction was her being female in an all-male jobsite, not knowing these guys, and how getting in on this job might prevent her from continuing to see out the better jobs she is qualified for.

 

however, i did not challenge it as i usually would have. i just said i hoped it worked out for her and wished her luck. i secretly hope it does not work out because i do want her to come live with me and get a job here.......and i guess my self-esteem fears make me worry that if she gets that job, she might not be interested in coming here to work and be with me.

 

anyway, for today, i acted like i was fine with it but it was hard. i'm just going to try to remain calm and be PATIENT and let things work out as they might. i will hope that if she's not supposed to get this job, she won't.......but i don't really know what is the best thing.

[theallegedparadigm]

Hey dude,

 

I feel like your situation is a pretty much identical situation to mine! Well almost, mine isnt/wasnt long distance...but, like you she is messed up in the head, like you that causes her to treat me like absolute * * * *, like you i often say things about splitting i dont mean, like you we are now not together, like you i cant just let go because ive never felt this way about someone before. Perhaps we could help each other through this tough (read: heart breaking) experience and maybe give each other some advice. Fancy a chat on msn if you have it?

[abbett]

yeah.....email me. i sent you a private message.

 

i have an update. i've been doing well this week - well, since monday - with my new mindset and the way i am approaching her. it just has to continue.

 

i've discovered that as long as i am distracted, i can keep it up. by that i mean as long as i am in communication with others, watching tv, doing chores, whatever.......i am cool and more laid back and not so impatient and overwhelming.

 

she has her share of problems for sure - but i wasn't helping. i was contributing to a toxic relationship!

 

anyway, with my words on monday, she started talking to me again. we talked yesterday as well.

 

and she ended up getting a job yesterday! it's not the best job in the world and it offers no benefits........but for the time being, it will give her some money in her pocket.

 

she did ask me yesterday about details in us living together.......she's concerned her mother would give her a hard time and say she cannot move back in with her if it doesn't work out here........and she said that since her mother helped her get her car, she'd really like to pay her back some of the money for a few months before moving out.

 

so, altho i wasn't really happy with the job choice, she's had no other offers and it will give her some money........she doesn't have rent and utilities now since living with her mother, so i suggested she pay a lot of money a month towards the car - she could easily pay it off in 3 months.......so i am hoping if she can do this that by this time in november.......we'll know more and be in a better place. the car might be paid off or close to it - she will have been working and have gotten used to that schedule again.......and maybe she can look for jobs here nad if she gets one, it might be feasible for her to move in.

 

however, i am not pressuring her. i've jsut suggested it and told her to do what will be best for her. that i still will love nad support her.

 

she sent me an email before she went to work this morning - it said, "i love you".

 

so i feel like we could be getting to a better place. like beec said, i think we are both now really working on correcting the missteps we've made. and i have learned and am still learning how to be a better person and partner and what it really means to love someone.

 

i will keep you updated. it still won't be easy........but at least i know she loves me. that's more than a lot of people have in this forum.

[Beec]

It sounds like things are improving. Good news.

 

I don't know what else to tell you. From here the one other thing I would tell you to pay attention to is her psychology, to what makes her tick, go off, etc. And look for immediate reactions and ones that take a day or two. Pay attention to how you influence how she feels by the things you do.