money and marriage

[diverp]

I have been married for about a year now. My wife moved into the house I already had. I added her to the title on the house. I added her to my bank account. Now, I had already had payment schemes for doing the bills. A lot of them I do online as it is easier (for me). I also had a savings account I set up well before we even met or married. So, I have a sizeable chunk of cash in there that I like to keep adding to, etc. It is a combination of the retirement savings as well as money for when our child comes in September. It is where I keep money in interim so that it makes some kind of decent rate of return etc.

 

So, as we integrated our lives, made sure that she knows that we in this all together. She essentiall is tied to all my accounts now. I haven't put her on the savings account simply for the fact that if I change the account, I lose the awesome rate I am getting on it. Makes sense to me.

 

So, here is the issue. About 6 months after being married, my wife told me that she felt "stupid" or out of the loop as far as our finances go. I am the one who typically pays the bills and takes care of all of that. But, she didn't like the fact that bills were being done online, etc. She is old school and likes to write all of this down. I told her that I have already got this stuff set up to do it a certain way and that I didn't see any reason to go backwards and have paper bills show up etc. So, I took steps to show her how to get online and access the bank accounts, etc online and see where the money goes and when. I wrote an excel doc that breaks out the budget for the month and when/where/ and approximately how much the bills are. Okay.

 

Then, 3 months after that (about a few months ago) she then says she feels stupid and left out again. She said she didn't remember how to log on to the bank account and that she had always done her own finances and had her own way of doing that. Now, she had already agreed when we got married that I would continue to do the bills as I know when things come out, where they go, what is online, etc. I was confused as to why she kept getting upset about finances. So, I wrote a document on the computer for her to show her exactly how to get access to these items and when and how much comes out etc.

 

Yesterday, my wife, out of the blue, comes to me and says she feels stupid that she doesn't know about the bills yet again. She is asking that I "show her how to pay the bills". She also asked that I show her how to access the account information for the savings. First, I don't know what else I can do or explain to her on how to pay the bills. As a bill comes in, I write a check for it and send it out. Simple. If it is one of the few items that is online, I authorize it online and it is paid. I wrote all of this down for her. Now, the savings account question is a little bit of a surprise to me. When we married, I took over and paid about $18k of her debt for her by refinancing my house (our house now). She has expensive habits from time to time with hair products, and shoes and clothes and the like. We are havinga baby this fall and I have tried to get accross to her taht we are going to have to change spending habits if she is gonig to be a stay at home mom (she has lobbied for that very much and I agree that it has its benefits). So, that is the way we are heading.

 

My wife is very up front and honest about her spending. I don't tell her what she can and can't spend money on. She is an adult. I trust her judgement. I never go and buy expensive things any more. I have curbed my budgeting in preparation for a kiddo. However, she is still buying a fair amount of items from time to time. She totally asks me about if it was alright that she bought that stuff, and I typically say that I am totally fine about it. However, I also keep reminding her that she needs to be responsible and keep mind of how much a child will cost and how drastically our lives will have to be budgeted when she is staying at home and not working.

 

So, she asks me about the savings account. She wants me to tell her how to access it and how to see what is going in and out. Okay. I am fine with that. I tell her the account number and the like and where the statements are. My issue is this. I took care of a lot of her debt when we met. She has habits that scare me sometimes as far as money management goes. That is partially why I want to continue handling the bills. If she gets a couple of hundred dollars to put into savings, I put it in there. She complains that she doesn't get to see where this money is going though. She has complained that her name is not on the account. Okay, I can kind of see that. She says that if I am to kick the bucket, how would she get access to this stuff? Well, I can totally put her on teh account and lose the good rate, to make her happy with that. She is getting stressed about a few hundred dollars when I am handling more like 50k in this account.

 

Am I being unreasonable in wondering why she keeps bringing this up? Am I being unreasonable in assuming she is a big girl and can handle checking this stuff as she needs. It is almost like she saw some episode of Oprah about husbands that cheat and control and is freaked and taking it out on me. I have no problem putting her on the savings account. I just don't see why she constantly brings up things about money, then I show her what she wants to see, then she doesn't follow up, then she brings it up again months later. It seems a little bit scattered to me.

[BellaDonna]

I think you should show her how you pay the bills online, because in the event that you became ill, or unable to do so- it would help her greatly to know how to pay the bills your way and be able to keep up with things.

 

Your situation as a newlywed sounds very similar to how mine was- my husband bought our home before we got married- he had more of a savings account because I was paying for 6 years of college.

 

I now do the bills- he showed me his way of doing them- and I do it "his" way just for consistency. If one of us should become ill or unable to do the bills, the other knows EXACTLY what is going on- what is owed, what we have for savings, etc. It makes it a lot easier, should a crisis ever arise.

 

From now on, perhaps you should make doing the bills, a joint activity. Maybe both sit down once a month together over a cup of coffee and go over it. That way, she feels involved- and you can also keep her interest in it. Even though I am the one who does the bills I always tell my husband: This is what we have in the checking account....this is what we have in the savings account.... a big credit card bill is due in on ____....

 

I keep him "in the loop" and it causes both of us to be conscious about our spending, what we can and can't afford, which projects we might plan for the future, investing, and also to feel that we are in this marriage together 100%, etc.

 

BellaDonna

[Day_Walker]

I would start paying some of the bills the old way that way she feels that she is included. The more she feels included the less she is going to inquire about the savings account.

You are a brave man for merging your finances if she has bad spending habits. If she is going to be a stay at home mom soon it seems like she will be more occupied with the baby and will spend less time on the bills. I would hold out till then make her happy with some of the bills but the keep the savings account in your name.

[evy38]

Next time you have to pay bills, don't do it. Arrange a time, with her, you sit over her shoulder and teach her the steps, but allow her to actually do the "hands on" paying. This sounds like she is intimidated with the online thing and this is not at all unusual, with many people. Once she's done it, (you may have to try this with her a couple times, don't do it for her and try not to keep telling her every step. Remember teaching, especially technology, is an art.), she will feel much more in control of the finances. You need to understand that she has been an independent woman, who took care of her own business, and she, rightly, doesn't care to be in the dark anymore. You need to understand this, in spite of what you may have agreed to, before the marriage. It is in YOUR best interest to have a wife who doesn't feel she has less control then her husband. A feeling of equal control will make her a happier woman. Besides there may come a time, if you get sick or die, when she needs to handle these things. It serves NO useful purpose to keep her dependent on you. In your defense, I don't believe that is what you EVER meant to do, but it happens anyway.

[DN]

You need to understand that she has been an independent woman, who took care of her own business, and she, rightly, doesn't care to be in the dark anymore

 

This would be true except that the assets that you now share with her were earned by you - she made no contribution to them, in fact she decreased them because you paid off her debt. That was not independence on her part. She should recognise those facts and be a little less demanding.

 

The biggest red flag over all this for me is that she got into debt before and doesn't seem to want to curtail the spending habits that put her in that situation in the first place. You both need to be on the same page about budgeting as well as the mechanics of moving money about.

[RayKay]

This would be true except that the assets that you now share with her were earned by you - she made no contribution to them, in fact she decreased them because you paid off her debt. That was not independence on her part. She should recognise those facts and be a little less demanding.

 

The biggest red flag over all this for me is that she got into debt before and doesn't seem to want to curtail the spending habits that put her in that situation in the first place. You both need to be on the same page about budgeting as well as the mechanics of moving money about.

 

I agree with DN here.

 

One of the BIGGEST conflicts in a relationship and the biggest factors that leads to divorce are FINANCIAL issues. Not just not having any money, but having drastically different financial styles and not being able to compromise on them.

 

I would be concerned about her reluctance to curtail her current habits.

[evy38]

This would be true except that the assets that you now share with her were earned by you - she made no contribution to them, in fact she decreased them because you paid off her debt. That was not independence on her part. She should recognise those facts and be a little less demanding.

 

The biggest red flag over all this for me is that she got into debt before and doesn't seem to want to curtail the spending habits that put her in that situation in the first place. You both need to be on the same page about budgeting as well as the mechanics of moving money about.

To imply that everything is his because he "EARNED" them, states VERY CLEARLY that being a stay at home wife/mom is meaningless, useless and valueless. This is an OLD and WRONG idea, that has been around for as long as women have taken care of the home. It is long past time that we appreciate the value of what a housewife does. It actually turns out that you couldn't pay one person, enough, to do ALL the work a homemaker is expected to do. Besides if I've read this post correctly, they are PLANNING that she quit working, not that she has YET. That makes your first statement just PLAIN WRONG!

Not every woman, or man, handles their bills perfectly or even well, but that DOES NOT preclude the fact that they are handling them and to have that taken away is difficult and unnecessary in a relationship that should be a union.

If a man, or woman, chooses to pay off the others debt in an attempt to make finances easier, that is their choice to do so. If a person cannot do this without resentment or can't do so without keeping score of who is spending what, where, then a couples finances should be kept completely separate and prenups signed.

[DN]

To imply that everything is his because he "EARNED" them, states VERY CLEARLY that being a stay at home wife/mom is meaningless, useless and valueless.

 

I implied nothing of the sort - you inferred erroneously.

 

Please read the original post again - you will note that the original poster was talking about assets brought into the marriage i.e. that he earned before the wedding not assets earned subsequently. Your remarks about being a housewife are thereforeeee irrelevant because that is not the issue. She was not a housewife at the time.

[evy38]

I implied nothing of the sort - you inferred erroneously.

 

Please read the original post again - you will note that the original poster was talking about assets brought into the marriage i.e. that he earned before the wedding not assets earned subsequently. Your remarks about being a housewife are thereforeeee irrelevant because that is not the issue. She was not a housewife at the time.

Yet again, if one is concerned about what a marriage will do to previously earned assests, then prenups are the answer, not becoming resentful or fearful AFTER, the deed is done and the other's debt paid off.

And, you have no idea what other (besides the debt), if any, material assets the wife may have brought into the marriage. And what law states the assests, brought in, must be equal? To assume he should have more control because he has more assests, is high-handed.

You and I often butt heads on posts, DN. I suppose it's because you argue a man's perspective, while I argue a woman's one. I would guess both have a certain value. You certainly make the posts exciting and provoking, and get my "dander" up.

[DN]

You and I often butt heads on posts, DN. I suppose it's because you argue a man's perspective, while I argue a woman's one. I would guess both have a certain value. You certainly make the posts exciting and provoking, and get my "dander" up.

I made no mention of the roles these two have in their marriage, traditional or otherwise - it was you that brought it up.

 

I try to be neutral and post what I think regardless of gender. But you seem to assume that when my advice may be in support of a man that proves I only support men. My advice would have been exactly the same had the genders been reversed, it is your assumption that it is gender biased - but your assumption is incorrect.

 

Prenups are all very well but sometimes the behaviour that causes concern or problems may manifest itself only after the wedding.

 

It seems to me that the original poster was very fair in sharing everything he had with his wife - and has made every effort to include her in the decision making process. All she has to do to share in that is to learn how to do things online and follow simple instructions - that doesn't seem to me that he is trying to control her or the finances.

 

Concern over her spending habits that may jeopardise their joint financial position seems to me to be legitimate. And I would still assert that if the genders were reversed.

[evy38]

 

Prenups are all very well but sometimes the behaviour that causes concern or problems may manifest itself only after the wedding.

I'm not sure how this could be the case here, as he CHOSE to elimate her debt. His quote "When we married, I took over and paid about $18k of her debt for her by refinancing my house (our house now)." He knew the score WHEN he married her. He took her and her debt on, eyes wide open. I see no where here, that he told her, the string attached would be he has control over all the finances, in the marriage.

The fact that she can't use his system, for whatever reason, is not a good enough reason to shut her out of understanding any current or future debt THEY might incur, as a couple. The MINUTE he put her on the title, HIS debt became HERS. In all matters HIS debt becomes HER debt. I would certainly want to know what I'm getting into, it might make 18k look like small potatoes. And, "My advice would have been exactly the same had the genders been reversed", too.

And, please stop twisting my words, I said we argue from different persepctives. And, you being a MALE, is a different perspective then mine. My being a FEMALE is a different perspective then yours. YOU are the one who brings the GENDER accusations into our discussions. Not me. Every time, I might add. "Me think the gentleman doeth protest too much", on this subject.

[DN]

I see no where here, that he told her, the string attached would be he has control over all the finances, in the marriage.

where does he say that he does? This is what he did say:

My wife is very up front and honest about her spending. I don't tell her what she can and can't spend money on. She is an adult. I trust her judgement.

and also

She also asked that I show her how to access the account information for the savings. First, I don't know what else I can do or explain to her on how to pay the bills. As a bill comes in, I write a check for it and send it out. Simple. If it is one of the few items that is online, I authorize it online and it is paid.

[Lunabelle]

Hello, you seem very thoughtful and it's good you are seeking help here.

 

Just wanted to add --

 

I'm glad you mentioned you two are expecting a baby. In my opinion this could have precipitated a whole rush of feelings new to your wife, perhaps about security for herself and the baby in case of emergency, or about her doubts in herself of being able to adequately care for a baby. Especially if this is her first baby. It just causes all these new feelings to arise.

 

And as much as I hate to admit it, I was a bit distracted and occasionally really stupid during all three of my pregnancies. Which could account for some of her frustration over these issues.

 

Maybe her "money" issues are actually more related to impending motherhood and her (natural) dependence upon you to provide for her and her baby. (Yes I know it's your baby too, I'm only speaking from the maternal side).

 

Finally, I think you might consider agreeing on exactly how much money she can spend on stuff that she buys. Regardless of whether she is earning money or not, she has legitimate needs. Let her know in advance just what amount the family budget can afford, and give it to her. I have friends in a similar situation, they have agreed on a family budget, he writes her a check once a month which goes into her checking account, which she spends as she sees fit. In this way, she is not continually holding out her hand, which puts her in a "down" position to you, the all-powerful wage earner! Also, in this way she can decide if that hair product is more important or if she's just gotta have another pedicure or whatever.

 

Don't kill your marriage over this stuff. It sounds like you do a good job of treating her like the adult she is.

 

Since she's worked for a living, she knows what's up here. Agreeing to stay home to raise children is an incredibly scarey decision for a lot of women. She knows in her heart how terribly important the job is, and she knows how tough it can be. It's about a 20-year job. After about 15 years of it, you can start looking around at other options again.

 

Good Luck!

[evy38]

where does he say that he does? This is what he did say:

and also

 

It's NOT ABOUT SPENDING! He even says she asks him if she can spend the money! I would never ask another person if I could spend money I help make! That is NOT a woman who has not learned a lesson or is careless with the couples money! She wants to understand the finances and see where the money is going! Who, in God's name, would want a woman who is equally responsible for the couples debt, to be unable to see where the money goes?

[DN]

It's NOT ABOUT SPENDING! He even says she asks him if she can spend the money! I would never ask another person if I could spend money I help make! That is NOT a woman who has not learned a lesson or is careless with the couples money! She wants to understand the finances and see where the money is going! Who, in God's name, would want a woman who is equally responsible for the couples debt, to be unable to see where the money goes?

 

This is what he wrote:

She totally asks me about if it was alright that she bought that stuff, and I typically say that I am totally fine about it

 

Note that she is talking about what she has spent - not what she wants to spend. She is not asking permission, she has already spent the money.

 

And, again, he is not trying to hide anything from her - she is choosing not to look.

[evy38]

Very good point Lunabelle. Pregancy and hormonal changes can be causing alot of her worry. She could be turning over the babies wellfare in her mind, over and over again.

[evy38]

 

And, again, he is not trying to hide anything from her - she is choosing not to look.

 

No, he has chosen a method of handling the finances, that she has clearly shown she cannot understand or use, without more help. And he implies it works just fine, so she should just trust him because he is "responsible" and "has always handled it". To keep one person, in a marriage, in the dark will result in that person feeling helpless and dissatisfied with the marriage. Money is one of the biggest problems, in marriages. Why would anyone, not do what they could to prevent some of these problems? And how is she supposed to know how to spend when she has no idea what is coming in and going out? I dare you to tell me, that he should TELL her, how much she can spend. What about how much he spends? Will he tell her that too? Or maybe SHE could tell HIM, how much he can spend.

[DN]

This debate has become pointless since you seem determined to paint this guy as some sort of sexist control freak when he clearly is not. Rather than engage in further discussion I will let his own words explain his position since they are clear enough and will withstand any attempt to make them say something he does not intend.

[evy38]

This debate has become pointless since you seem determined to paint this guy as some sort of sexist control freak when he clearly is not. Rather than engage in further discussion I will let his own words explain his position since they are clear enough and will withstand any attempt to make them say something he does not intend.

 

No more then you paint the lady as a financial flake who can't control her spending. thereforeeee doesn't need to know her own financial status. But, I agree that the debate has become pointless.

[RayKay]

Am I being unreasonable in wondering why she keeps bringing this up? Am I being unreasonable in assuming she is a big girl and can handle checking this stuff as she needs. It is almost like she saw some episode of Oprah about husbands that cheat and control and is freaked and taking it out on me. I have no problem putting her on the savings account. I just don't see why she constantly brings up things about money, then I show her what she wants to see, then she doesn't follow up, then she brings it up again months later. It seems a little bit scattered to me.

This is what the original poster has said.

 

He seems to be absolutely FINE with his wife being involved in the bills and the tracking of the account. He has shown her several times how to access them, written out a budget, written out documents explaining how to check these things, given her access to the accounts. She has never been denied knowing her financial status. She is on the house, she belongs to the bank account. The only one her name is not on is the Savings due to fact they would then lose the interest rate he currently gets (and those great interest rates in Savings are hard to to get these days). But she has been given the information to view and track the account.

 

The poster is correct - he is not her babysitter, he has sat down and showed her several times and gone through it with her, what more is he expected to do?

To the original poster - you two should really have wills if you are married and also expecting a child. In this will, there should be clear instructions on where the money in the savings and all other accounts would go to. This can be direct to her, or into a trust fund for your child.

 

I don't think it was every implied she was a financial 'flake' by anyone on this thread, but I think even the poster does have concerns about her spending and it seems to be evident they do have different styles. Of course being a Stay At Home Mum is valuable, however if that is their goal as a couple they DO need to be working towards that goal, and I think the poster is concerned that if her spending habits are not curtailed, they may find themselves taking on great debts. I don't think this is an unfair concern in the least. It was great of him to pay off her debts if that was his choice, but I do think as partners, and with a child on the way, it is not unfair for him to be concerned about her habits that got her in there in the first place.

[evy38]

 

The poster is correct - he is not her babysitter, he has sat down and showed her several times and gone through it with her, what more is he expected to do?

 

Perhaps he could do as she asked and start getting paper bills, which she is all she's asked for (according to the OP), is used to, can understand and is comfortable with? I'm not sure why that is such an unreasonable suggestion, if this is indeed, a union of equals.