Update

[Mattie]

Hi all. By now, I'm sure you know my story. Anyway, just to let those that have been very supportive so far know that I have been elusive and aloof for the past week or so and it seems to pulling the "lesbian" closer to me.

 

Anyway, I am going to see her band tonight. She texted me this afternoon to ask me. I waited until after I finished work to reply. I told her yes. She replied back straight away and seemed really excited about me coming.

 

The odd thing is that I've sort of got bored of the whole thing now! I am sure that when I see her it will change, but by deciding to cut contact and take control of the situation, I kind of feel like it's a waste to go back.

 

I'll let you know how it all goes. I'm sure I'll be down in the dumps again tomorrow. Haha.

[Mattie]

Oh my god. What a crazy night!

 

I went to see her band last night. I was friendly and sociable. After she'd finished playing, I met all her band and they assumed that I was her boyfriend.

 

Anyway, we just hung out at the bar and watched the other bands. There were moments where it got tense. Sexual tension almost, but it was an enjoyable evening.

 

As the evening progressed and we had more to drink, we started flirting again and being playful. Then, out of the blue, we made eye contact and she went to kiss me. I backed away, shook my head to say "no" but then I couldn't resist. We kissed. It was amazing. But, that was it. She then apologised, but then said: "Actually, I'm not sorry. I like kissing you."

 

We ended up going for a few more drinks in another bar with her band mates. At the end of the evening, they all went home, but we were left alone. I didn't know, but her band mates thought we were together. So, I made sure she got home OK. Missing my last train in the process. She offered me a place at hers. I knew it wasn't like that, but agreed. I said I would sleep on the floor and she said no. We shared a bed and we hugged for a bit and then went to sleep.

 

This morning, we hugged and kissed. It took me about an hour to finally leave as I couldn't! She told me that she misses me. She loves being with me and she wishes she wasn't "a lesbian". We had a big heart to heart and I told her that I am crazy about her. I really don't care about not being with her in that way, I just love being with her. I told her that she shouldn't worry about what she's feeling and just go with it. It's not a black/white thing and it's not set in stone. She may decide one day that she's bi, or straight, or whatever.

 

But, after speaking to her, I know the situation. I think the problem was that I didn't really believe she cared for me and she was just using me, but after talking to her last night, I now know she cares about me. She said that she has a lot of love for me, just not in that way. Which, I can't argue with.

 

Thank you to everybody that has helped me and put up with my whinging and taking over of this forum! All your advice has pulled me out of the hard times and made me open my eyes.

 

At the moment, I don't want anybody else, but I am not waiting at the same time. I'm just happy that I know where I stand. It is strange that I really really feel like I'm falling for this girl, but I don't feel sad or annoyed that we've not had sex. Does that make sense? We're more than best friends, but we're not a couple. I have no idea about how to explain our "relationship" to people anymore! Haha.

[novaseeker]

Here's the thing: is this what you need?

 

In other words, being in this "kind of" relationship with her .. it holds you back from other relationships (you're not interested in pursuing anyone else .. in that sense it is taking up your "relationship slot"), and yet doesn't go to where a relationship with a non-confused person would go. I'm wondering whether the fear of losing her is leading you to accept a less than ideal situation for yourself (ie, a sort-of relationship with someone who can't commit whether she's even attracted to your biological sex). You should think about that, because if that's the case, or close to the case, you really ought to re-evaluate what's happening here in terms of what you really want, what you really need, and what you are getting ... and what your real motives are here.

 

She strikes me as just as confused as ever. She says she is a lesbian, but she likes kissing you (a lot, seemingly), which isn't what a lesbian would be inclined to do. It appears to me that she is still very confused about her sexuality. It's a big red flag, it seems to me, as big as it has been in the past with her.

 

I know you feel well now because you had a good evening and morning with her. But I think you should reflect on things a bit once you get some distance from that and can look at things in a broader perspective instead of the "how did she just recently make me feel" perspective, which really just leads to a rollercoaster ride for you.

[Mattie]

I can see where you're coming from.

 

I think the problem I had before was that I never really knew where exactly I stood. I never told her that her on/off behaviour was getting to me. Everybody told me that I needed to lay all my cards out on the table for my sake and I feel that now the situation is clear, it's all good.

 

The only thing that does make me think is how she doesn't seem like a lesbian. Or she's in two minds. As I left yesterday, we were hugging and she sighed and said: "I really wish I wasn't a lesbian"... As you said, she shouldn't be kissing me or even letting me share a bed with her if she's a lesbian. She'd certainly not hug me back or say the things she says. She made a move on ME on Tuesday night too. At the same time, she said: "I have so much love for you, just not in that way..." so maybe it's not her sexuality and it's just me. I noticed she commented: "Your drummer should take his top off more. Yum. x" on one of the band's pages that her band played with on Tuesday. I think she is confused. Perhaps I'm perfect for her emotionally and all that, but she just doesn't find me attractive... then again, why the hell would she say/do the things she says to me?!

 

Jesus, now I really am confused. I am clearly thinking and worrying far too much. When we're together it's not a problem.

 

She's messaged me on MySpace to say that she's coming home this weekend and she wants to see me. Which is cool, I told her the other night that I really like her and that I can accept her situation and it's cool. Granted, judging by this post, I'm still a bit mixed up, but I am a naturally paranoid person.

 

She's very confused still obviously but at the end of the day, we're practically a couple. We just don't have sex. We are really really close. And that's why I refuse to walk away.

 

But, can I ask you all this? Why the hell would she do all that she's doing when she's saying that she's a lesbian?

 

I'm still being elusive.

[patience]

I've met PLENTY of lesbians like this...and yes, they really are lesbians...and they were 'players'. They played with women and men's feelings, one of them was dating this man while she had a gf, but she never did more than kiss him, led him on for a long, long time, got plenty of free lunches and dinners etc...gave him just enough to keep him hanging in there. They were really messed up women. I got sucked into the drama myself for awhile, young and innocent and all that...I learned the hard way to stay away from women like this.

 

Just like how some men are jerks who screw with women's feelings, there are women out there who do the same.

 

Have any of your friends met her? What do they think of her? Try to get some opinions from people who've actually met this woman. Maybe she has "I'm fu*ked up" written all over her, but because you are so in love with her you just don't see it?

 

She doesn't care very much about you to jerk you around like this...no matter what she says. A friend woudn't use you for attention. She seems messed up.

 

You're playing with fire. You'll get hurt, sooner or later, unfortunately.

 

She sends you mixed messages, her words don't match her actions, so of course your head is getting totally messed with. BUT you are choosing to play with the fire.

 

You'd be much happier with a straight girl...seriously...think about it.

[Mattie]

Have any of your friends met her? What do they think of her? Try to get some opinions from people who've actually met this woman. Maybe she has "I'm fu*ked up" written all over her, but because you are so in love with her you just don't see it?

 

A lot of my friends have met her and they say that she's lovely. They certainly don't say that she's messed up. They have said that she's obviously confused, but they are basing that on everything I've told them about the situation.

 

She couldn't fake it for three months. What would be the point? She could have anybody but she chooses to see me time and time again. I guess you could put it down to "love is blind" but I don't think she'd be able to keep this up for as long as she has if she didn't mean it.

 

SHE made a move on me the other night. She's the one that comes home to see me, she invites me everywhere and she's the one that hounds me whenever I disappear. I can't remember the last time I initiated contact. I'm not being needy in anyway when she does contact me and I'm not giving her the impression that I'm uphappy.

 

This isn't new to me. I'm used to rejection and not getting who I want. But, ultimately, I do care about her as a friend and that's why I can't just shut her out. It seems like it's the same for her, she doesn't want me in THAT way, but doesn't want to stop seeing me at the same time. That says to me that she cares about me. NOT that she's using me.

[patience]

Look at it this way...if you had a gay male friend who was in love with you, but you didn't feel the same way, would you be kissing him? Would you make moves on him? Hello?! No, of course not...because that would lead him on and hurt him. You wouldn't do that to a friend.

 

Good luck!

[Mattie]

Look at it this way...if you had a gay male friend who was in love with you, but you didn't feel the same way, would you be kissing him? Would you make moves on him? Hello?! No, of course not...because that would lead him on and hurt him. You wouldn't do that to a friend.

 

I think, as people have said before, she probably doesn't realise that she's doing it. But you are right. I plan on questioning her about the comment she made about the drummer of that band. If she's a lesbian, she shouldn't be kissing me when she knows I'm interested or telling other boys to take their tops off.

 

Having said that, if I was doing those things, I wouldn't be doing it just to get attention. There'd have to be SOME desire to do it to a certain extent surely?

 

Maybe she's bi. Maybe she feels that she SHOULD like me, but doesn't and uses the "lesbian" thing as an excuse.

[patience]

sometimes people feel powerful when they can elicit desire in others...it's twisted, but it happens...it might make her feel good to have you wanting her, eventhough she doens't want you back

 

this sort of thing happens between straight women and lesbians too...the straight woman will lead on the lesbian, kiss her etc, just because she gets off on having sexual power...the straight woman may feel some desire, but not enough to go further than kissing and a little bit of touching...it inflates their ego, like, hey, aha, I could get a woman if I wanted to...it's like this messed up power trip

 

I have seen games like this go on for years. I'm not kidding. A friend of mine (lesbian) had a straight woman lead her on for years, literally years...the straight woman really did care for my friend, but not 'like that', but that didn't stop her from kissing, dancing, flirting, going out on dates, sharing a bed even...but she kept insisting she was straight, and she never went all the way if you know what I mean...this really messed up my friend's head for a long time

 

if someone was kissing me and putting the moves on me, I'd respond...seriously, just go for it...if she says 'no' then obviously you have to stop...but if she gets you all wound up, and if she is just power tripping, call her on it...if your words aren't getting through, your actions sure will

 

do you have any lesbian or gay male friends? if so, get them to meet her, and ask them what kind of 'vibe' they get...they'll let you know what's what, they'll have seen it a million friggin' times before

 

something you could do, and this would be hard for you perhaps, but if you really WANT to know the score, take her out to a gay club...and watch what she does! You may have to see her 'lesbianism' with your own eyes to finally 'get it'. It would be harsh, but it may be the wake up call you need.

 

If she is into you, she won't check out the women much, no more than you would look...and she'll dance with you, etc...but if she goes for the women, there's your answer loud and clear

[novaseeker]

The thing is this: if you see your relationship with her has a "friendship" (ie, s"not THAT way"), is the relationship nevertheless holding you back from entering into a full-blown relationship with someone else? If the answer is yes, then that's bad for you.

 

And if you see your relationship as a full-blown relationship, are you getting what you want/need out of it? It doesn't sound like the answer to that is yes, but that's something you need to answer. My recommendation would be that you resist the temptation to sell short your own needs because you want to spend time around her, even though she isn't satisfying your needs.

[Mattie]

Right then... get this. It's a bit long winded and I'm drunk and haven't been to bed for two days, but hopefully it'll make sense.

 

So, we went out tonight. Once again, we're close and after a while it'd get tense. We'd talk, we'd flirt, we'd dance... then after a time, we kissed. We kissed for a minute or two. Then, I apologised. I thought I was being unfair. I went to the bar and she went to mingle with people.

 

I thought to myself whilst I was at the bar that enough was enough and I had to stop living like this. I decided there and then to find someone else.

 

So, I did that. I got talking to a really hot girl that I went out with once or twice before. Nothing ever happened between us, but we get on really well blah blah. Anyway, I started flirting with her and eventually we ended up kissing. She was saying that she wanted to be with me when we went out before, but she was messed up. I just acknowledged it and said it was cool, which it is.

 

Whilst I'm talking and kissing this girl, the lesbian disappears. Apparently she was annoyed because she thought I was wrong for going elsewhere. The girl I was talking to knew the lesbian from MySpace. She said: "Is she your girlfriend? She's hot!" I made a joke and said that she'd have more chance than me...

 

Little did I know that a few minutes later, they BOTH disappeared. They were gone for an hour or so. They went to the toilet together and did whatever it is girls do.

 

So, not only have I been rejected by a girl because of her sexuality, the next girl I meet decides to go off with the lesbian. How much of a head * * * * is that? I am so * * * *ing messed up.

 

Anyway, the lesbian and I chatted, but because we've both been drinking, we agreed to meet up at a later date to talk when we've got clear heads. I just told her to try and see how it was from my point of view. If she's not into me, why the hell do we meet up, hold hands, kiss, share beds, etc...

 

The lesbian said that she really likes the girl I met and it wasn't just a "thing". Because THAT would be really harsh on me. What gets me is that the girl I met was just having fun. She's not a lesbian and has never claimed to be one. She's just a "whatever happens happens" kind of girl.

 

It's one thing to be rejected. I can deal with that. But to be rejected then teased and kept at arms length, then meet someone else but they both go off TOGETHER... how much of a slap in the face is that?!

 

I really can't deal with this.

[novaseeker]

Gah -- that's a very odd circumstance. I'm sorry this happened to you! I know it must have felt horrible --- I can imagine how I would have felt if that had happened to me. Yuck!

 

Girl #2 is bisexual I take it ("whatever happens, happens" meaning at least heteroflexible and not straight). It's still odd she would hit it off with your lesbian friend, but it could be an odd coincidence. In any case ... scroll up and read Patience's test ... looks like girl #1 flunked it by goimg off with girl #2.

 

I hate to sound like I'm beating a horse long dead here, but you really need space from this girl and the circles she moves in. It's not doing you any good at this point, and you're getting hurt repeatedly. Girl #1 is at least bisexual and unwilling to commit to a heterosexual relationship. She may be friendship material, but not while you're interested in pursuing her (and having her respond) romantically. Girl #2 seems to me like she was playing with you, and shame on her ... I'd recommend simply forgetting about her.

 

Seriously, this circle is not helping you. Can you hit "reset" a bit and hang out in places where girl #1 won't be?

[Mattie]

I think it's now closed. So, in that sense, it's easier to get over it.

 

I asked her why she would let things happen between us if it meant nothing to her but a lot more to me and she said:

 

" i think i was dillusional when i thought that you only thought of me as a friend, even tho it at times was obvious that you didnt. I think for all of my past relationships with men, i have become so used to showing affection without being attracted to them, that i just got used to doing it, its like a habit that i have to break, and being friends with you has made it harder to get rid of that habit, and so i think unless can just accept me as a friend (if thats possible now) it will be difficult for both of us to have any kind of friendly relationship. H owever much i want to be your friend i understand if you need time or dont want me to be, i just want to do whats right for you, and im sorry for confusing you"

 

One thing that's really messed me up is that if I'm only a friend to her, why the hell did she kiss me, chase me whenever I stopped talking to her, flirt, hug, etc etc...it's just not on and I've told her. But, I understand it's probably hard for her too.

 

It's all out in the open and I know that there's nothing there. I am to blame in that I kept holding hands with her and what not. I shouldn't have let it go on as long as it did. I'll be fine.

 

Girl number 2 doesn't really matter. I don't know her very well and I don't see her very often. She did told me I was hot, etc, etc...

 

What worries me is that girl number 1 told me that she really likes her. I think to girl number 2 it was a bit of crazy drunken fun. Girl number 1 told me last night that she wouldn't have done it unless it meant something more. So I'm worried she's gonna get hurt. Especially given some of things girl number 2 was saying to me.

 

Also, considering the fact that she'd just had "sex" with a girl she likes, she didn't seem very happy. It was a bit like she was ashamed on some level. She told me ages ago that she wanted to have experiences with girls to see if it filled the void that her previous boyfriends have left. So, I can't argue with it. That's what she is doing. I care about her enough to be there for her still, but I really shouldn't.

[patience]

Did girl#1 have a girlfriend BEFORE you met her? A woman won't be so quick to have casual sex with another woman if it is her first time. Sounds super fishy to me.

 

Regardless, this woman (girl#1) is NOT relationship material. She wants to play the field, and play games too. Look at how quick she was to have sex with a frigging stranger while she has been stringing you along all this time. Sheesh!

 

She is making cheap excuses for her behavior, and she is not taking ANY responsibility for how she has treated you.

 

Unless you are into triangles and threesomes, I'd get out now.

 

Chances are, she is being affectionate with you to keep you around. Maybe she doesn't value herself enough to offer and accept friendship without sexual overtones. You might want to ask her about that if you decide to stay friends.

 

What a mess. Go out with your guy friends to a really straight bar or something. Go flirt and kiss some straight girls. There are women out there who are attractive who won't play these messed up games with you.

 

No matter what girl#1 or girl#2 say, these chose each other over you. I know that probably hurts, but this is the truth...and now you can free yourself from this bond you have if you choose to. Girl#1 chose to have sex with a stranger, BECAUSE she wanted to! Her preference is screaming pretty loud and clear...can you hear it? Sorry to be harsh, but actions speak way louder than words in this case for sure!

[Mattie]

I spoke to a friend of girl number 2 and she reckons that nothing happened between them on Saturday night. Whether it did or it didn't, girl number 1 didn't deny anything so maybe she's just trying to use it to get rid of me. She's being so harsh on me right now and I just can't get my head around why the hell she'd let it go on for so long. She had the chance to get rid of me the first time around, but she kept coming back. She kept kissing me. She kept pushing me away. Then pulling me back. Then hugging me... it's just such a stupid situation that I am an idiot for getting involved in.

 

I have no idea what her game is. She suggested going out for a drink last night but in the end it didn't happen. Once again, she's not talking to me now.

 

She really doesn't seem to understand or care at how messed up she's made me. I'm being made to feel like I'm in the wrong for reacting how I have.

 

Forgive me, but she's gone against what she said. She claims that there's nothing there but she would tell me "if there was an ounce of attraction"... so, she's not attracted to me. Fine. But, in the past, she has told me that I'm "hot" "sexy" etc etc. Her excuse is that she's used to being affectionate when she doesn't mean it... I didn't put a gun to her head and force her to kiss me or sleep in my arms. I stood back and let her come to me. Each time, she'd seem interested. Why the hell would she keep chasing me when she doesn't want to? It makes no sense. She's clearly messed up and now she's dragged me in.

 

Right now, I feel used and I really don't believe she cares about me at all. I think I was just there when it suited her. She claims to care about me, but she made me feel like dirt for questioning her actions. Like I was over reacting and she'd done nothing wrong.

 

Confused she may be, but she's * * * *ed with my head so so much and really ruined my confidence. The worst part is that she doesn't really care or seem aware of how messed up she's made me.

 

Good luck to the next guy, that's all I can say. I am sure that she will contact me again. When it suits her. I have a feeling she's just got bored of me and wants another guy to chase her. But, all I ever did was be there for her and treat her like she meant the world to me, she abused that and stomped all over me. She can * * * * right off.

 

I am going to find it very hard to believe anything a girl says to me anymore.

[novaseeker]

What you need is some space from this person. She did jerk you around, no question. You don't hug and kiss and sleep entwined in the arms of someone and then turn around and say "but I thought it was just friendship" ... that's objectively speaking nonsense. She seems rather confused and/or someone with some special needs and issues of her own ... but you don't need to be dragged along for the ride.

 

Take control of the situation and isolate yourself from her for a while. Not all girls are like that, so resist the temptation to become mistrustful in general, because the only person you're hurting by doing that is yourself. But yes distance yourself from her and give yourself time to get over this ... and then move on to a girl who won't jerk you around like this one.

[Mattie]

What you need is some space from this person. She did jerk you around, no question. You don't hug and kiss and sleep entwined in the arms of someone and then turn around and say "but I thought it was just friendship" ... that's objectively speaking nonsense. She seems rather confused and/or someone with some special needs and issues of her own ... but you don't need to be dragged along for the ride.

 

Take control of the situation and isolate yourself from her for a while. Not all girls are like that, so resist the temptation to become mistrustful in general, because the only person you're hurting by doing that is yourself. But yes distance yourself from her and give yourself time to get over this ... and then move on to a girl who won't jerk you around like this one.

 

Absolutely. I can't lose by ignoring her. I KNOW she will contact me again. Because she always has before. But, I'm not letting her walk over me again and again.

 

I've tried to be the nice guy about it but she's just walked over me each and every time. I am a fool for letting it go this far I know, but I really thought that she cared for me and I wanted to be there for her. But, I have realised that she doesn't deserve my affection. In the same way that I don't deserve her game playing.

 

At the end of the day, she's only 20 and that's an age where people go thru various changes. When I was 20, I was very different to how I am now. She strikes me as being very confused and just needs to be left to it. She doesn't seem very happy and I am obviously going to still care about her. But, she's messed me around for far too long now. I can't trust her. One day, maybe she'll look back on this and regret everything, but until she realises how harsh she has been, there is no point me trying to be a nice guy about it.

 

I get the feeling she's not totally set on her decision. I can just tell that she's not strictly into girls. I'm pretty certain that she'll get with another guy before she gets with a girl. If she ever does get with a girl.

 

I will be fine. I always am. At the end of the day, I treated her the way a guy should and I did nothing that I will regret. If she wants to throw that back in my face, she can. But, it's her loss. I'm not losing anything.