A Question for the ladies

[musicguy]

What is so attractive about a bad boy? I've heard countless times how girls want a nice guy etc etc..yet they go out with jerks who treat them like crap. Someone please explain this to me.

[Mun]

Here's a few reasons I could come up with:

 

They're unpredictable and thereforeeee exciting.

 

The belief that you will be the one to change him from his bad boy ways.

 

They are hot and cold. It's addictive to feel like you're this close to getting him, but the darn guy is so ambivalent. Next time !.....

 

They are very, very confident and that's attractive in everyone.

[HeckaBekah]

Women are known as the nuturers and many of them tend to think about others more then themselves too often. Bad boys have the image of being independent and focus so much on their own well being that it attracts women who are hoping to learn from that type of a man. But women who stay in relationships with bad boys lose more self respect instead of gaining it and are more desperate in attempting the make the bad boys happy.

[musicguy]

So if I turned into a jerk, I could get more girls than I do now?

[HeckaBekah]

Yes, but why would you want a relationship with a woman who is needy and why would you like to act as if you don't care when you really do? Don't change for anyone even if more girls will be attracted to you because a relationship will not be healthy and thereforeeee will not last.

[HeckaBekah]

Essentially you will be wasting more time an effort until you do meet someone you are truly compatible with.

[musicguy]

Ugh! I'm so confused *sigh*

[shes2smart]

For me, the appeal of the "bad boy" was the fact that I couldn't control him. If I couldn't control him, then I couldn't percieve him as being a wimp.

 

This lead to finding myself in a lot of messed up relationships in my 20's and into my 30's.

 

Then I made a very important discovery about myself. Specifically, about my sexuality. I happened upon an informational/educational website (not a porn site) about BDSM/Power Exchange relationships, and as I read the various articles & discussions, my entire relationship history (along with all its failures) made sense to me.

 

Essentially, what I really wanted was a guy who was going to take a 51% share of the power/control in a relationship. Not only in a sexual sense, but in all aspects of the relationship. With that 51% share comes a tremendous amount of responsibility, which is something that the bad boy does not shine at in the the least. There's a difference between "I can't control that guy" and "That guy is in control." It's a subtle difference, but one leads to a dysfunctional relationship (bad boy), the other leads to what can be a healthy relationship (like what I have with my husband, who is, by all accounts, a nice guy...a kinky freak, but still a nice guy ).

 

Relationships where there is a 50/50 split of power and control would seem to be the ideal situation in theory. In my particular version of reality, attempting to attain and maintain a 50/50 split only ended up in constant bickering as both parties were constantly jockeying for position. If you go into a relationship with the spoken aloud & negotiated agreement that one partner has the 51% share, and the other has the 49% share the source of a lot of tension in the relationship vanishes.

 

Most people stumble into relationships and never discuss the power structure in an open manner. It's something ya gotta waste a lot of time and energy trying to figure out from one day to the next...sometimes from one minute to the next. Some people can deal with that. I'm not one of them.

 

Now, this isn't going to explain why all the women who go for the bad boy type do. There isn't gonna be a one-size-fits-all explanation. Mun came up with several plausible explanations, too.

 

Here are a few other variables that also fit for some of these situations:

 

>The women attracted to the bad boy may have issues of their own -- deep down, they don't believe they deserve a guy who treats them well

 

>They have a skewed idea of what a good relationship is -- Read a romance novel, watch a tv show or movie about relationships, listen to any number of love songs...yeah, a gal could get the idea that it's not "real love" unless there's a lot of high drama involved.

 

So what's a guy like you to do?

 

Well, I don't know that being a jerk to get women is a good idea in the long run. Consider the various kinds of women who go for the bad boys and the reasons they do...do you really want to try to build a relationship with a woman who may have the belief that she doesn't deserve to be treated well?

 

With a woman on a similar path to mine....would you want to try to build a relationship with someone who couldn't articulate what it was they really wanted in a relationship? Prior to my mid-30's I had no idea about the BDSM lifestyle...thereforeeee I had no way to clearly communicate to a potential partner what I was looking for.

 

The good news is the women who have it together or are actively trying to get it together do tend to grow out of that bad boy attraction as they get older. At some point, a woman who has good self-esteem (or is working toward having good self-esteem) will get tired of being treated poorly by the bad boy and realize she deserves better. And that is where being the nice guy pays off in the end.

[Mun]

You don't need to be a jerk. It's all about having self control and confidence.

 

Don't give up who you are for anyone, but have an opinion. Don't cater to each and every whim your girl has, put your foot down at times. Don't run everytime she calls...tell her you will call her back when you can. Don't accept disrespect and don't let her walk all over you. Some guys think that being a nice guy is a turn off, it's not about that, nothing wrong with being nice --but having boundaries...that's all.

 

A woman who stays with a guy that treats her like crap has some serious problems. Maybe you should be looking to girls who find the bad boy type a ridiculous waste of time....

[Juha]

Musicguy if all you want is to get girls and have sex then being the a**hole is the best way to get that...

 

If you want to have a relationship with a girl then being a nice, strong, confident person is the way to get that...

 

Now this also depends on the girl.... SOme girls have issues and feel that they don't deserve someone who is good to them so they go with the a**holes, one after another... When they go with the nice guy they love it but they second guess themselves because they feel like they should not deserve someone like that...No one can understand why they do this except

them...

 

There are alot of messed up people out there try not to get discouraged...

 

I got discouraged and did not go with anyone for 5 years, now I was having fun just no relationships I finally let someone in and well I guess the wall is going back up again for a while...I trusted someone and they let me down, again...

 

I sometimes feel the joy of being with someone is not worth the pain anymore....

[ShySoul]

Musicguy if all you want is to get girls and have sex then being the a**hole is the best way to get that...

 

If you want to have a relationship with a girl then being a nice, strong, confident person is the way to get that...

 

Exactly. Girls date bad boys. Then they get fed up with them and end up with the nice guy. They marry the nice guy. Which would you rather be?

 

Don't change. Don't be a jerk. Just don't lose faith, believe in yourself, and be patient. Good things happen to the nice guy. In fact, I know from personal experience that being a nice guy pays off and gets you some very nice rewards...

[Markers]

I'm not a lady and I didn't read what others said, but for me it's like this:

 

if you're a bad boy, you attract girls. Fact. But if you really are a bad boy, you can't keep any of them. At least not any decent ones.

 

If you're a nice guy, you don't attract many, and if you get one, overly nice behaviour (clingy, needy, "If I'm nice, you'll like me more" -attitude) might push her away. However, nice behaviour basically is the thing that keeps the girl. Being an @$$ won't keep the girl.

 

If you're a nice guy, you can't just start being a bad guy or vice versa. You gotta learn to take the best out of being a bad guy and a nice guy: You need to find the center and go by it, then you become a good guy who is not a player but still attractive, he's nice but doesn't let anyone to walk over him, he's fun and sometimes a bit cocky, but absolutely pays attention and is still nice to a girl.

 

That's basically the route that attracts girls and keeps them, for me, that is.

[ShySoul]

You gotta learn to take the best out of being a bad guy and a nice guy: You need to find the center and go by it, then you become a good guy who is not a player but still attractive, he's nice but doesn't let anyone to walk over him, he's fun and sometimes a bit cocky, but absolutely pays attention and is still nice to a girl.

 

Bad boys have redeeming qualities to them? Girls really love a guy who is cocky and arrogant? They told me that turns them off. Not let people walk all over them? Yes, they don't do that because they are too busy walking all over themselves, pretending to be a certain way and trampling over there real selfs that they have buried deep down. They are busy hurting themselves. Bad boys have no behaviors you should wish to emulate. When you look at them, they are far more mixed up then anyone else. There the ones who should be doing the emulating.

 

Bottom line: Be youself. Forget this nice guy/bad boy thing. All of us are nice guys at heart and thus we should all end up with someone. Some people just lack confidence in themselves and think they have to be a bad boy, either in full or in part. And that just messes them up.

[mariergn]

dont turn into a jerk!

Most women love a nice caring attentive man... HOWEVER

It does depend on alot of factors though e.g age, what the girl wants, where she is in her headspace at that time etc

Commonly, it can can be the other way around i.e woman being the "jerk" (the word I want to use wont let me type it!) in order for the man to chase her like a blue arsed fly!

[bebestix]

I've always fallen for that type (looking back unfortunately ) They've always been good-looking and socially intelligent i guess. Another thing is that they tend to be "exciting", that's the best I can describe it....

[PocoDiablo]

Here is my take on it.

 

Women want a leader, a gentleman, and excitement. Nice guys will lack one or more of these traits, as well bad boys. You have to come out in the middle, like a gentleman, and have restraint but be exciting. You have to be a leader but not a tyrant. You have to be polite but not an * * *-kisser. You have to have discipline and make decisions. You have to have self-control and self-respect, as well as self-confidence.

 

If you are a doormat and let a woman walk all over you, break up with you and get back with you, cheat on you, or just pay her way with nothing in return you do not have self-respect or self-confidence. But if you do the exact opposite, that won't work either.

 

It's a fine line, and you have to be well balanced, mature, and polite and have some manners.

 

When was the last time you read a book on manners? Ever? You don't want to go overboard, but you do need to get an idea of what makes a gentleman.

 

In my opinion.

[Mjane]

When I read these bad/good guy postings what I find it comes down to is the person asking the question is attracted to the wrong women and vice-versa. A woman who goes for a bad boy is not going to be interested in a good-sweet guy. But a guy attracted to women who go for bad boys is only going to have his heart broken and get disillusioned. You have to reevaluate who you are attracted to. Why aren't you attracted to women who like good guys? That's the question.

[Markers]

Bad boys have redeeming qualities to them? Girls really love a guy who is cocky and arrogant? They told me that turns them off.

 

Forget this nice guy/bad boy thing. All of us are nice guys at heart and thus we should all end up with someone. Some people just lack confidence in themselves and think they have to be a bad boy

 

I'm not saying you should become a jerk, you should learn a lesson from a jerk, and not repeat his mistakes.

 

All who are nice and should end up with someone, and lack confidence to do it, will not end up with someone. That's where you need to learn something from the bad boys, and that is the confidence. Not overly cocky and arrogant, but confident. ShySoul seems to have serious problems understanding that cocky is good, unless you overdo it (which many people do). You need to understand what's good amount of cockyness and make sure you don't overdo it.

 

You don't want to be the guy who'd deserve something but can't get it. You want to be the guy who deserves something and gets it because he's confident. You need to learn confidence, it takes time but you'll get it, and yes, you need to change.

 

We change all the time, it's not like ShySoul says that we're gonna be what we were born to be - no, we can change ourselves and make our lives a lot better! Why wouldn't you do it? Seems like Shy can't take the ill side of learning (it sometimes hurts and takes time and effort), don't get discouraged by what he says about never changing. You change anyway, wanted you that or not, so why not make the changes happen yourself and control them?

[ShySoul]

LOL. Markers, if you are going to address me, address me. I felt weird reading "ShySoul says." LOL.

 

ShySoul seems to have serious problems understanding that cocky is good, unless you overdo it (which many people do). You need to understand what's good amount of cockyness and make sure you don't overdo it.

 

Confident is good. Cocky isn't. Cocky means arrogantly self assured; conceited (dictionaries really are useful tools ). By your own admission, and the admission of just about every women, being arrogant and conceited isn't good.

 

Cocky by definition is the overdoing of confidence. There isn't a way to be cocky, arrogant, conceited, that is good.

 

The only time I have been cocky is when I have been joking about it, mocking those who feel they need to be cocky. And girls have always seemed to like that. It says I have enough confidence in myself to realize that I don't need to be cocky, I just need to be myself. For the most part I am humble and modest (the opposite of cocky). And thats gotten very favorable reactions from girls.

 

You don't want to be the guy who'd deserve something but can't get it. You want to be the guy who deserves something and gets it because he's confident

 

You don't want to be either. To quote a song, "I don't want to be anything other then me." Right now I'm the guy who deserves it, but hasn't got it. Why? Not for lack of confidence. For bad timing and just not meeting the right person. But I have confidence enough to now that I don't have to change a thing and I will get everything I've ever dreamed of. It's just a matter of time.

 

We change all the time, it's not like ShySoul says that we're gonna be what we were born to be - no, we can change ourselves and make our lives a lot better!

 

It's a hard concept to grasp, I grant you. But in not trying to change, that is when the most change comes about. I tried to change parts of myself. Never got anywhere. Just felt uncomfortable and more alone. Then I went with who I was. I didn't try to change myself, I let my natural personality shine. And thats when things started happening.

 

I realized I needed to change nothing. Why? I was already nice, caring, sensitve, a good friend, trustworthy, funny, honest, exciting in my own way, compassionate, a good listener... and lots more good qualities that not only attract women, but just make me a good person. I was already the guy girls befriend and turn to. I was already the guy that has girls asking to hang out with them. Even being shy and quiet, girls seemed to like that about me. What did I need to change?

 

In not trying to change things, and in taking life as it came, I freed myself to look at what was really important in life. I could focus on the most important things in life, being a good person and doing the right thing. A lot of the negative traits I had and things that used to hold me back weren't resolved by trying to solve them. It was resolved by shifting perspective and seeing that they either weren't things that needed to be solved, or things that I naturally outgrew.

 

? Seems like Shy can't take the ill side of learning (it sometimes hurts and takes time and effort), don't get discouraged by what he says about never changing. You change anyway, wanted you that or not, so why not make the changes happen yourself and control them

 

You are misinterpreting me. I don't say to not learn, if anything I am all about learning and wish people would learn more. I don't say to not strive to be the best you can be. If anything I think it is a shame that more people don't open their minds to things and think for themselves more. I'm just saying to look at how you are changing. In my experience change and inner growth comes not from the effort to change yourself, but to understand who you already are. I think we know everything we need to know when we are young, and that the key to our potential lies within us. It's through an honest examination of ourselves, learning to embrace every part of who we are, that we find peace of mind and from there any change will occur naturally. But its not something most really get.

 

When I read these bad/good guy postings what I find it comes down to is the person asking the question is attracted to the wrong women and vice-versa. A woman who goes for a bad boy is not going to be interested in a good-sweet guy. But a guy attracted to women who go for bad boys is only going to have his heart broken and get disillusioned. You have to reevaluate who you are attracted to. Why aren't you attracted to women who like good guys? That's the question.

 

Mjane, that is right on.

[Markers]

"Cocky by definition is the overdoing of confidence. There isn't a way to be cocky, arrogant, conceited, that is good." You're hiding behind dictionaries. You're not even trying to understand what I'm telling you. If you're a good guy, and you manage to bring in bit of cockyness with being still the good guy (which is possible), I find you become very attractive good guy. "The only time I have been cocky is when I have been joking about it, mocking those who feel they need to be cocky. And girls have always seemed to like that. It says I have enough confidence in myself to realize that I don't need to be cocky, I just need to be myself. For the most part I am humble and modest (the opposite of cocky). And thats gotten very favorable reactions from girls." So, you HAVE been cocky, and the girls "have always seemed to like that". That's what you said yourself. The favorable reaction you get from girls by being always super humble and modest means that you're potentially rushing into friendzone. "I tried to change parts of myself. Never got anywhere. Just felt uncomfortable and more alone. Then I went with who I was. I didn't try to change myself, I let my natural personality shine. And thats when things started happening." Funny, it went the vice versa for me. I started changing myself, it worked, and it worked fine. Maybe you just screwed it? Now let me guess, you've said you tried David DeAngelo's tricks, you've tried being cocky etc. so maybe this is what happened to you: you decided that "tomorrow I'll be cocky" and you forced out some stupid line and came out like a goof, because the day before you had been shy and all so everyone knew you were acting, and they could see through that anyway because you didn't have the confidence. Now of course the girl scowled at you and you ran off disappointed and figured "hey, this doesn't work!" and stopped. It doesn't work that way, it takes months, it takes failures, it sometimes hurts, but if you keep at it, it works. Use your own brain to see what's good advice and what's not, and what fits you. "I realized I needed to change nothing. Why? I was already nice, caring, sensitve, a good friend, trustworthy, funny, honest, exciting in my own way, compassionate, a good listener... and lots more good qualities that not only attract women, but just make me a good person. I was already the guy girls befriend and turn to. I was already the guy that has girls asking to hang out with them. Even being shy and quiet, girls seemed to like that about me. What did I need to change?" you lack one thing in that list, and it's confidence. Ask around in these boards, and girls will say almost 100% that they want a man with confidence. What you say there is that you go to friendzone with girls, fine if that's what you want. Many guys do not want that though, so don't try to push your ideas to everyone like that. What you're basically doing is telling guys to become friends with the girls when the guys would want to date them. How's that helping them?

[Markers]

and huh?? where did my paragraphs go? Firefox doesn't seem to like these boards.....

[Mjane]

No one can really change themselves and how they act or behave.

You can make minor alterations, but if you are insecure, you can try and be more confident, but you are never going to be a bad boy, no matter how hard you try.

This is why you need to reevaluate who you are attracted to.

A good example is myself.

A lot of the guys I date tend to be on the quiet side. I'm very outgoing, so I tend to attract these type of guys.

Unfortunately, quiet guys tend to be emotionally unavailable and unskilled in relationships.

So I'm constantly on guard for red flags in this area.

This last guy, I ended it after 8 weeks because he just couldn't meet the minimum needs, meaning he never called me unless it was to make plans.

So, this last stretch we went three weeks without a date. And while I saw him at social events that we went to separately, I expressed a need to hear from him in between dates and he couldn't do it. So, I had to end it. In the old days, I might have let it go another month or two, driving myself crazy over whether he was interested in me or not.

Now, I need to figure out how to attract men who are more relationship-skilled and emotionally available. I'm just worried they don't exist.

Ok. That was my negativity speaking!

[ShySoul]

You're hiding behind dictionaries. You're not even trying to understand what I'm telling you. If you're a good guy, and you manage to bring in bit of cockyness with being still the good guy (which is possible), I find you become very attractive good guy.

 

I get what you are saying. But can you describe just how it is possible, because I haven't seen it lead to a lasting relationship yet. And why do you need to be cocky when being modest can get you just as much if not more? In my experiences girls get turned off by the slightest hint of cockyness. However, being modest and shy has been viewed as very attractive. It's gotten comments along the lines of being the guy every girl dreams of, heavy flirting, and much more.

 

So, you HAVE been cocky, and the girls "have always seemed to like that". That's what you said yourself. The favorable reaction you get from girls by being always super humble and modest means that you're potentially rushing into friendzone.

 

You missed out on a word.... JOKINGLY. I wasn't really being cocky, I was mocking those who feel the need to be cocky as if it impressive girls. If you could see the exaggerated look on my face or the tone in my voice, you know I was being anything but cocky for real. What the girls liked was my sense of humor, how I could laugh at the guys who are like that. If anything showed that they liked laughing at guys like that and thus find them amusing, not attractive.

 

First, I'm just humble and modest by nature. But doing that doesn't mean I'm going to be friendzone. For a guy who is consistantly risking the dreaded friendzone this year has consisted of two girls saying they love me, two wonderful cuddling experinces, magnificent kisses, other girls being interested but unable to commit, lots of girls flirting with me...... yes, I really must fear being friendzoned cause it always seems to happen to me.

 

And I'm not trying to brag or be cocky here. I'm just stating fact to show that being humble, modest, and a friend will give you success.

 

Now let me guess, you've said you tried David DeAngelo's tricks, you've tried being cocky etc. so maybe this is what happened to you: you decided that "tomorrow I'll be cocky" and you forced out some stupid line and came out like a goof, because the day before you had been shy and all so everyone knew you were acting, and they could see through that anyway because you didn't have the confidence.

 

Never said I tried his tricks. I would have to be an idiot to do that. What I said about him was that I suscribed to his site a few months ago just for research so I could know just what kind of nonsense he was trying to sell to people. I was repulsed by everything he said. I would never try anything he says. What I did was send in letters to his site explaining the success I have had (see above) and how I did the exact opposite of everything he tells people to do. My interest in the guy was to prove him wrong because of all the success I had with not being cocky, but with being shy, quiet, and modest.

 

When I say that I've been done that road before, I was referring to my feelings over the years of wishing I could change myself and not be shy. Those feelings weren't really me because deep down I've always been proud to be shy and loved every bit of who I was. But what I allowed myself to do was to listen to other people who told me that being shy wasn't right and that I had to fight it at all costs. Back in middle school I even had some "friends" advise me that I needed to change my image. I never did it, because I loved who I was already and didn't see a point. But when you are constantly being told that you have to be cocky, outgoing, smooth, etc., it is easy to get down on yourself and wonder why you are different then everyone else.

 

What I came to see is that I'm not different then everyone else, I am simply who I am and that is who I am meant to be. If I am shy and quiet, so be it. It's me and I love it. That's real confidence. It comes from within. It comes from saying, I don't care how I appear to others, as long as I am staying true to myself. People who think they need to be cocky, that shows a lack of confidence. Because they are still concerned with how they appear to others. They want to appear cocky. I don't care how I appear, as long as I'm being me.

 

?" you lack one thing in that list, and it's confidence. Ask around in these boards, and girls will say almost 100% that they want a man with confidence.

 

What do you call a guy who at one point had at least 6 people posting on a thread trying to convince him to change and that his ways would never work with women, despite the fact that the women who posted was backing that guy up, and who stood his ground and simple pointed to all the success he was having?

 

Confident.

 

I've gotten to know many women, on this board and off it. And I haven't had my confidence called into question. Actually, a few have complimented me on my confidence and strength to endure the constant challenges thrown at me and my opinions.

 

What you're basically doing is telling guys to become friends with the girls when the guys would want to date them

 

I say to get to know the girl better and befriend her. Thus you can decide if she is really someone you want to date, as most of the time people are talking about women they don't even know. If you don't know her, how can you be so sure you want to date her?

 

And do you realize how many girls wish that they would meet a nice guy who talks to them first and takes their time to get to know them before rushing to get on a date?

[ShySoul]

Mjane,

 

Just because they are quiet doesn't mean they are unskilled with relationships. They might be unsure at first and hesitant, but once they open up they are great guys who will give you anything you could want. I don't know the details with that guy, but there could be some explaination.

 

Quiet guys are careful about who they open up for, but once they do then it becomes something special that other guys won't be able to give you.

[Markers]

What do you call a guy who at one point had at least 6 people posting on a thread trying to convince him to change and that his ways would never work with women, despite the fact that the women who posted was backing that guy up, and who stood his ground and simple pointed to all the success he was having?

Yeah, what do I call a guy who stands his ground pointing out the succes he has, and refuses to hear all the success others have had by changing themselves, and refuses to hear all the sad stories people tell around here, about how they tried your route and the girl says "I'm not interested"? What comes to your other points, maybe your way works for you. But it surely doesn't work for everyone, not for me at least. Maybe we're interested in different types of girls who are attracted to different types of guys? Also I'm confused, as you say that you're shy, but still you try to say that you're confident and can be all cocky and funny and laugh to others, but you're still all modest and humble. Move to pm if you want to continue this, it's kinda off topic - we're not ladies.