She thinks I am someone I am not (an outgoing person)

[registered]

Hi everyone,

How's everyone doing?

 

 

Ok, for one reason or another I am friendless. Now, the other day I met a girl and we really got along well (better than I have with other people, girls).

We got along really well and if I didn't know any better I would say with some certainty that she was interested in me.

 

Sounds good yeah?

Well, that particular night I wasn't being myself. I am incredibly quiet, effectively shy. I do not say much, if anything. (That's the way I am)

But on that particular night I was very socialable and outgoing. What is more, I was in a group of people who it appeared were my close mates. In actuality, I did not know them at all.

 

So the dilemma is that she thinks that I am funny and outgoing and have a tonne of friends when I actually am quiet, nerdy, not funny and have no friends!

 

She was attracted to me (I think she was...) when I was like that the other day. I have spoken to her once since that time and she invited me out with her friends and told me to bring mine! Oh oh - I wouldn't have any to bring!

(BTW, in regard to this dilemma ignore the fact that she asked me along in this way... Let's assume she is interested and would like something more ...but if you want to comment on it in isolation to my dilemma feel free to do so)

I am not going to go as I am unable too, but the issue is that she thinks I have a lot of friends and am outgoing.

 

I also have the impression (from what she has said and how she has acted on those two occasions) that she would like me to ask her out sometime.

 

What do I do? She thinks I am someone I am not!

Who was she attracted to - which "version" of me? Would she like the pre-existing and unerasable version of me if she experienced it?

 

Now, I'm not going to kid myself, if she did want to go out with me and we got closer she would eventually realise that I had no friends!

But should I just be upfront next time I speak with her and tell her? I was thinking something along the lines of this:

"Hey, I think I should just be honest and open. I am a really introverted person and am very quiet. Despite the events of the other night, I actually do not know those people...I don't actually have any friends. I just wanted to tell you so that you wouldn't have a false impression of me"

 

If I were her I would run for the hills after hearing that

Is it a wise thing to do? Should I do that? Does it matter?

 

Oh and why does this even matter to me?

Well, if she likes me she likes that side of me that she saw (outgoing, light hearted, fun to be around) - and I won't be like that again (I will be, in essense, the same person, but I just wonder what she saw in me...we are very different people and I guess that she liked that side I showed which was similar to her).

Also, her interests are not like mine...they are very socially-orientated but she thinks we share similar interests (I told her that I don't "exactly" share those interests).

In terms of the social hierachy we are at opposite ends of the spectrum... she is popular and pretty and funny and has lots of friends and things like that!

And finally the most important point, I like her! She really is a cool person and so I'd like a chance if she would be nice enough to give me one

 

So can anybody share some advice? Anyone have a similar experience they'd be kind enough to share? (We are at university and so that explains our ages if that helps).

Please feel free to be as blatant and honest as you like! I'll appreciate it.

 

If you'd like more information don't hesitate to ask!

 

Thanks for reading and thanks in advance for your advice and opinions

[PocoDiablo]

Ok, for one reason or another I am friendless.

Maybe you haven't met any people cool enough to hang out with you? Where's the problem?

 

Now, the other day I met a girl and we really got along well (better than I have with other people, girls).

We got along really well and if I didn't know any better I would say with some certainty that she was interested in me.

 

Sounds good yeah?

Yeah!

 

Well, that particular night I wasn't being myself. I am incredibly quiet, effectively shy. I do not say much, if anything. (That's the way I am)

But on that particular night I was very socialable and outgoing. What is more, I was in a group of people who it appeared were my close mates. In actuality, I did not know them at all.

 

So the dilemma is that she thinks that I am funny and outgoing and have a tonne of friends when I actually am quiet, nerdy, not funny and have no friends!

You're lying to us and to yourself here buddy! You just told us that you were outgoing and sociable, and you WERE! Who cares if you don't have any friends? Really, this is a good thing and I will explain in a second.

 

She was attracted to me (I think she was...) when I was like that the other day.

Can you give us some more details? Why? What did she say or do? Let's get it right from the start, shall we?

 

I have spoken to her once since that time and she invited me out with her friends and told me to bring mine!

No worries, just go alone for now. Why bring along a bunch of goofy friends if you just want to get to know her better. Less friends to babysit or say stupid things about you ... this is good.

 

I am not going to go as I am unable too, but the issue is that she thinks I have a lot of friends and am outgoing.

I doubt she cares how many friends you have unless she is trying to use you and your friends to win a popularity contest, and if that is the case then she's not someone you want to be with is it?

 

I also have the impression (from what she has said and how she has acted on those two occasions) that she would like me to ask her out sometime.

Ok then, why are you here asking us? (wink)

 

What do I do? She thinks I am someone I am not!

Who was she attracted to - which "version" of me? Would she like the pre-existing and unerasable version of me if she experienced it?

Who here, Mr. Psychoanalyze myself to death. Slow down! lol You are OVER THINKING this. You just need to calm down. When you were at the party, the way you were acting was due to the brain cells in your head. They did not fall out of your ear when you left the party, did they? They did not shrivel and die, did they? No, you are still you, and I bet the fact of being around her and the chemistry between the two of you is what is kicking things into gear. So all you have to do is go hang out with her again and it'll all come back...

 

Now, I'm not going to kid myself, if she did want to go out with me and we got closer she would eventually realise that I had no friends!

Yeah, and how is that bad? Does she want to invite them all on a date with you so you can kiss her? How many dates do you go on with 12 friends? Most dates are just TWO people - you and her. You should not even be TALKING about your friends, you should be asking her questions and getting to know her better.

 

Once I asked a girl out it's rare that we spend ANY time with her friends or mine. Maybe twice a year at the most! That's the whole point... right?

 

But should I just be upfront next time I speak with her and tell her? I was thinking something along the lines of this:

"Hey, I think I should just be honest and open. I am a really introverted person and am very quiet. Despite the events of the other night, I actually do not know those people...I don't actually have any friends. I just wanted to tell you so that you wouldn't have a false impression of me"

Wow, that would be the most stupid thing I think you could possibly do. Here is someone you get along with really well, who likes you, who you like, and you're going to dump some (no offense intended!) pathetic, immature, cry-baby, psycho-babble bunch of depressing crap on her. WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD YOU DO THAT?

 

I can absolutely PROMISE you that if you tell her that, or go into some big serious conversation about anything depressing like that, she will turn and run for the door.

 

If I were her I would run for the hills after hearing that

Oh, whoops, I just read that line. But yeah, you KNOW this so don't do it!

 

Is it a wise thing to do? Should I do that? Does it matter?

Would James Bond do that? How about Bill Clinton? Cary Grant? Don Jaun? No. The only person would do that would be an immature boy talking to his mother. DON'T do it.

 

Oh and why does this even matter to me?

You're nervous.

 

Well, if she likes me she likes that side of me that she saw (outgoing, light hearted, fun to be around) - and I won't be like that again (I will be, in essense, the same person, but I just wonder what she saw in me...we are very different people and I guess that she liked that side I showed which was similar to her).

Yeah, exactly, but the reason why you are like that, in MY opinion, is because you lack practice with women. As a result of having no dating skills and no practice, you lack confidence. It's just like playing with fire - you don't want to get burned. But anyone can reach into a roaring fire and pull out a stick if you grab the end that is not hot, right? Maybe put on a glove or use a fire tong? You just need some tips.

 

Also, her interests are not like mine...they are very socially-orientated but she thinks we share similar interests (I told her that I don't "exactly" share those interests).

Well, just don't do anything that you don't want to do. If she invites you shopping for shoes, tell her "Hey, that's not really my thing. You go, call me some other time." Don't be afraid to tell her if you don't want to go somewhere, because if you DO go and are bored out of your mind or are in a bad mood, THEN she won't like she man she sees, will she?

 

In terms of the social hierachy we are at opposite ends of the spectrum... she is popular and pretty and funny and has lots of friends and things like that!

And here she is asking you out because all the guys she hangs with are jerks, rude, players, and she hates that. You're sincere, honest, down to earth and a breath of fresh air. Hello, am I the only one who sees this?

 

And finally the most important point, I like her! She really is a cool person and so I'd like a chance if she would be nice enough to give me one

This is important, but NOT in the way you think. YOU are the cool person and YOU are the one she has taken a liking in because YOU are not like all the other guys she has met. YOU should be the one who is nice enough to let her into your life. No matter how popular she is, she is still a human being, still has faults, and may not be that great of a person. Does she treat you with respect, or like a whipping boy? Etc.

 

So can anybody share some advice? Anyone have a similar experience they'd be kind enough to share? (We are at university and so that explains our ages if that helps).

Please feel free to be as blatant and honest as you like! I'll appreciate it.

 

If you'd like more information don't hesitate to ask!

 

Thanks for reading and thanks in advance for your advice and opinions

Blatent? Yeah, that's me.

 

This is really, really, REALLY simple. You need to ask her on a date. And here is what I am going to do. I posted some advice for someone else that was VERY similar, so I am going to do a hack and slash job here:

 

He, basically, knows a girl likes him, and asked her to a movie (bad first date!) but does not know what to do next. So I gave him this advice:

 

Okay, here's my take on it. First, did you ASK her on a "date" or just to hang out? I don't have enough details from you to really tell what is going on, but I think you are going to get yourself friendzoned if you are not careful.

 

Second, a movie is usually a very poor choice for a date. The reason why is because a date is when you sit and talk and get to know her. Dinner is a better idea, but my personal favorite is the simple coffee or drink at a bar. You can sit and chat. The whole point is to ask her lots of questions and flirt, find out if you two get along, find out if she is normal or crazy, and to find out if she is crazy for YOU. Unless you can communicate with ESP there is no way you can talk during a movie without annoying her or half the audience. In addition, if you take her to a movie your "date" now has a very high "entertainment value." This means that if the woman were sufficiently bored or her first choice for a date stood her up, then why would she turn down some sucker who is paying her way to see a movie. For her it's the best of both worlds. She gets to see a movie for free AND she does not have to talk to the guy who took her. So a movie does not allow you to learn anything about her or how she feels about you.

 

A coffee or a drink is ideal because it's cheap and makes it clear that you're not going "coffee tasting" or anything like that. She is actually going to have to sit and talk to you for an hour or so and that's plain. Now she has to actually think about going out with you. She knows that if she's just looking for a free drink, there is going to be pain involved if she does not like you. thereforeeee, a bored woman or gold digger is not going to accept the drink offer because there is not enough in it for her. But the woman who thinks you are cute, wants to date you, wants to get to know you better ... oooh this is perfect because she gets to spend time with you.

 

Now, of course, on your date you are going to flirt and be yourself. You are not going to act like some 12 year old brat but are going to use self-control. That means you are not going to make sex or racist jokes, you are not going to look at other women, you are not going to talk about cars, computers, sex, bodily functions, your EX'S, her EX'S, your boring as * * * * job, how you got this rash, STD's, blood and guts, or anything gross, depresssing, or "heavy." You are, instead, going to ask her lots of questions about herself, her life, and then ask her to expand on the details. Where did she grow up? Did she like it? Yeah, really? What was your favorite thing about living there? Was there anything you wished you could have done while you still lived there? As you ask more questions you will surely make connections, and then you can take a few moments to expand on that. The more you learn about her the more you can learn if you are compatible. You may find out that she has two dogs. You may also learn that she is the kind of person to leave them chained to a tree with no food or water for their entire life. You may not like that (I would never talk to her again.)

 

Not everything someone does is great, and the point of the date is to find out.

 

Remember, it's easy for anyone to put on a great show for the first few dates, or even to get you to take them to a movie, by sitting on your lap and flirting. But guys are notoriously easy to manipulate. Here is a woman who has done nothing out of the ordinary and you're hitting the ATM to impress her. This has to be the dumbest thing you can do, and I should know because I did it for decades.

 

The one thing you have to remember here is that no woman should be rewarded by you unless you get something out of it as well. Remember the concept of give and take? Exactly. If you are just providing her free entertainment, what are you getting out of it? The whole point of a date is for two people to become closer, more intimate, more involved.

 

However, at NO POINT in the date should you touch her. Why? Well, women are used to and tired of men putting thei grubby hands all over everywhere. It's desperate. It's uncomfortable. And most of all it does not let you evaluate her interest level in YOU. This is very important. While you are doing all this flirting and joking, it's okay to reach out like you are going to touch her, but stop an inch or two short. She'll expect the touch, but not get it, and all of the sudden she'll feel comfortable because you are not some creepy freak like all the other guys she's dated. After a while, if she likes you, she'll TOUCH YOU. Once, no big deal. Twice, okay, something may be happening. Three times? Hey, you're getting somewhere. When she starts touching your legs or arms, these are "buying" signals that she is into you. Keep holding back, Romeo, as best you can. Think about what it takes to be a gentleman and go easy. Remember, the lack of you touching her is making her wonder what is going on and now she is trying to send you signals that she likes you. Walk her to her car, still not touching her, open the door, all that stuff. When you get back to her place, walk her to the door.

 

If you've gotten to know her real well, all you have to to is be a gentleman and lean in very slowly and then stop a little distance from her face. She'll get the clue. Now she should lean back in and kiss you. This should be a very light kiss on the lips, no tongue. That's it. Avoid the make out session if possible, although I do not always do this myself depending on the situation and the amount of chemistry we have. Just don't do it on her doorstep or on the street. Be discreet!

 

Now if she does not kiss you on the lips, this is her way of saying "we're going too fast" or "I don't like you." Personally, if it's #1 then you did not ask out a woman who was interested in you enough to begin with. If it's #2 then it's because she really did not like you, or you did something wrong on the date. Maybe you talked too much about cars, maybe you did not ask enough questions about her, maybe you got drunk, got into a fight, said something rude, acted too shy, or were plain boring.

So after the date, you should have gotten to know HER real well by asking HER lots of questions. You may find out that she talks non-stop and is ultra boring. I mean, if all she can talk about is shoes, what's the point? You may find out that this hottie is not so hot.

 

But tell us more about why you think she likes you. What signals did you get?

[registered]

Hahahah, Thanks!

What a great response PocoDiablo!

 

Maybe you haven't met any people cool enough to hang out with you? Where's the problem?

I am just too shy/lazy/afraid...but there's only one solution and that is to be the opposite of each of those, or to at least not let them take control of me. (I am prepared to add nerdy/geeky/boring to that list but everyone says it's a matter of being "interested not interesting"... maybe once you have someone attracted to you it is, but in having someone attracted to you in the first place I'd still guess that you need to have something that makes you stand out...and being nerdy/geeky/boring doesn't do me any favours.)

 

You're lying to us and to yourself here buddy! You just told us that you were outgoing and sociable, and you WERE! Who cares if you don't have any friends? Really, this is a good thing and I will explain in a second.

There was a whole lot of alcohol involved... that definitely made me a lot more outgoing than normal.

I'd like to be like this all the time, but I don't think that is possible. I try to be like that, but so far it just hasn't been so. Again I just avoid social situations and so I just need to face it and do what I have to.

 

Can you give us some more details? Why? What did she say or do? Let's get it right from the start, shall we?

Ok, I hope she's not reading this.

Anyway, she had seen me joking around, I was trying to write some one's details down...she offered to do it for me and wrote hers down for me on the same paper because I said she should Lol. She was just standing beside me and so she was just there.

Then we were talking about her (I really don't know how I was talking... I normally wouldn't have been able to do that) and she told me about herself, asked me about me. She was laughing smiling things like that.

But then she grabs my arm and says come with me... We go sit down somewhere alone and just talk for quite a while. She is staring into my eyes more often than normal, leans close to me. She laughed at my jokes (or at me being so wasted I don't know...).

Also, I was actually able to make interesting conversation with her. She told me where she worked and so I asked for advice relevant to that. She had particular interests and I knew of them myself. It just seemed like she really enjoyed talking to me.

So it just felt right.

 

Then I speak to her on the internet (it took 3 days for me to work up the "courage" to add her to the list...sad sad sad)...she was wondering what I did at the party after I left. I told her. Then she says this, *quote*: "wat did u chat about ey ey????". I am quite sure she was wondering if I spoke about her...the other drunk guys there were giving us * * * * and being suggestive and so I am guessing (ok, hoping) that she was hoping that I had spoken about her and was going to tell her.

Well I didn't speak about her.

Anyway she was polite and more friendly then I would expect (but that is not much of a sign... I'm prepared to err on the side of unreasonable hope though...)

 

So going on all of that (mainly the bit at the party) I concluded that she was interested.

 

No worries, just go alone for now. Why bring along a bunch of goofy friends if you just want to get to know her better. Less friends to babysit or say stupid things about you ... this is good.

Well I can't dance (enough alcohol would fix that though...)... the invitation was with her friends to a club

 

I doubt she cares how many friends you have unless she is trying to use you and your friends to win a popularity contest, and if that is the case then she's not someone you want to be with is it?

Ok. (but see the last paragraph).

 

Who here, Mr. Psychoanalyze myself to death. Slow down! lol You are OVER THINKING this. You just need to calm down. When you were at the party, the way you were acting was due to the brain cells in your head. They did not fall out of your ear when you left the party, did they? They did not shrivel and die, did they? No, you are still you, and I bet the fact of being around her and the chemistry between the two of you is what is kicking things into gear. So all you have to do is go hang out with her again and it'll all come back...

Hahaha, I love that... unfortunately it was due to the alcohol killing those brain cells

So it wasn't the fact that she was there that caused me to act a certain way, unfortunately.

If I were sober any "chemistry" or simply being in her proximity (joke) would probably instead make my palms sweat and my tongue trip.

 

Yeah, and how is that bad? Does she want to invite them all on a date with you so you can kiss her? How many dates do you go on with 12 friends? Most dates are just TWO people - you and her. You should not even be TALKING about your friends, you should be asking her questions and getting to know her better.

Well it doesn't matter to me... but I think some people make judgements based upon who our friends are.

I couldn't care myself (that would be a little funny all things considered) but I also wouldn't hold this against anyone.

My worry is that she will think of me as a loser because I have no friends. I guess it's not my loss, but I don't want it to happen! I guess that is irrelevant.

 

Would James Bond do that? How about Bill Clinton? Cary Grant? Don Jaun? No. The only person would do that would be an immature boy talking to his mother. DON'T do it.

Yep, ok. Thanks!

 

You're nervous.

Sh!tting bricks.

 

 

Yeah, exactly, but the reason why you are like that, in MY opinion, is because you lack practice with women. As a result of having no dating skills and no practice, you lack confidence. It's just like playing with fire - you don't want to get burned. But anyone can reach into a roaring fire and pull out a stick if you grab the end that is not hot, right? Maybe put on a glove or use a fire tong? You just need some tips.

Yeah you are right. In the past I have been nervous again but I sometimes faced it and just took the "risk" and it paid off. But that was rare, I usually cowered in the corner in the fetal position...

 

Well, just don't do anything that you don't want to do. If she invites you shopping for shoes, tell her "Hey, that's not really my thing. You go, call me some other time." Don't be afraid to tell her if you don't want to go somewhere, because if you DO go and are bored out of your mind or are in a bad mood, THEN she won't like she man she sees, will she?

Well something I'm not comfortable doing would be going to a club... I don't dance... seems to me like that could be a problem (and at worst an opportunity to make a complete fool of myself )

 

 

And here she is asking you out because all the guys she hangs with are jerks, rude, players, and she hates that. You're sincere, honest, down to earth and a breath of fresh air. Hello, am I the only one who sees this?

Thanks, but in a fair, honest and reasonable evaluation of myself as other people see me I am not a breath of fresh air... I am seen to be shy and someone who snobs people off because he doesn't have the guts (and the skills, which are in my opinion unattainable... or are a matter of confidence... either one lol) to talk to people. After all, if I were such a great person I would have friends and women showing interest in me.

So yeah, honestly, I am not someone who anyone would find attractive and who people would want to know... But I try and can only improve (and have).

 

This is important, but NOT in the way you think. YOU are the cool person and YOU are the one she has taken a liking in because YOU are not like all the other guys she has met. YOU should be the one who is nice enough to let her into your life. No matter how popular she is, she is still a human being, still has faults, and may not be that great of a person. Does she treat you with respect, or like a whipping boy? Etc.

It's funny you mention that... she treated her friend at the party like a "whipping girl" but that was probably because she was the host.

Well the way you say it is important makes sense, but I don't believe I am "not like all the other guys she has met" in a positive way... being a nice guy doesn't get you anywhere, women should expect this...to me it is all that comes on top of being a nice guy that matters - I don't have anything on top of the hope that I might be a good guy. I'd like to be some magical guy who is really great but I doubt it... I know that I am not like the guy she saw the other night anyway. I also know that the guy who I am just doesn't do anything for anyone else and I'd say I won't do anything for her. (Maybe I shouldn't see it as my loss.... but in reality it is. It isn't every year a girl like this would make an effort to show interest in me, if that is what she actually did)

BTW, I don't mean to sound so negative about myself.

 

 

Thanks for that dating advice, it's very good.

 

Now, of course, on your date you are going to flirt and be yourself. You are not going to act like some 12 year old brat but are going to use self-control. That means you are not going to make sex or racist jokes, you are not going to look at other women, you are not going to talk about cars, computers, sex, bodily functions, your EX'S, her EX'S, your boring as **** job, how you got this rash, STD's, blood and guts, or anything gross, depresssing, or "heavy." You are, instead, going to ask her lots of questions about herself, her life, and then ask her to expand on the details. Where did she grow up? Did she like it? Yeah, really? What was your favorite thing about living there? Was there anything you wished you could have done while you still lived there? As you ask more questions you will surely make connections, and then you can take a few moments to expand on that. The more you learn about her the more you can learn if you are compatible. You may find out that she has two dogs. You may also learn that she is the kind of person to leave them chained to a tree with no food or water for their entire life. You may not like that (I would never talk to her again.)

Yep sounds good. I have done this sort of thing before, and although conversation doesn't seem to come naturally to me I can probably, maybe (big maybe), adequately inquire about her.

But one problem is that I worry about how she (or anyone I want to like me) views me. If she asks me what I like to do on a friday night and I tell her I like to do some boring nerdy thing she is going to think that I am boring and nerdy. I have no problem with that, I just don't want it to happen.

I guess I have to somehow believe that it isn't my loss and somehow be confident that she sees more of me then my interests or anything like that. I'm not judgemental like this myself, but most people I have ever known are like this.

As you said in there it is good to find out what sort of person they are... that is good advice. The thing for me is that chances for dates come up so extremely infrequently... you wouldn't believe it. So I have this pressure of wanting to make sure I don't stuff up any chance I get as it is likely to be my last one!

 

As background, I asked two girls who I thought were cool out to lunch this year. I tried my best, but I really am not a social person (as much as I'd like to believe otherwise). I did very well and it went ok on both occasions and the best thing was that those occasions weren't the last time I saw those girls again... so to me I'd take that as success on some level...

 

Yeah the date idea sounds nice. But.

I am lazy... I don't have a car or even a license to drive one. She has both, but I wouldn't expect her to drive me.

This limits anything I can do... I just walk or use the dreaded public transport. Technically I can get anywhere lol, but I don't have high standards concerning how I get there - I don't care about driving. She would though!

Why would she want to catch a train? Why would she want to walk? (maybe if the guy was worth that much... but she could easily get a guy with a car if that was important to her... to me, a car is one such thing that would be considered on top of being a nice guy, for example. And if she had the choice between two nice guys, one with a car and one without, my guess is that she would pick the one with a car).

I like the idea of coffee but of course I can't pick her up or anything, I'd have to meet her there. That seems ok for coffee, but with anything else it seems like a car would be preferable.

I've been meaning to go for my license for a year but I just put it off... it makes things harder then they need to be for sure. I don't have a problem with getting a car and am always told to get one. I'm just lazy and I mean, I never really expected to need one ever (including for dates!) and so I've just indifferently gone without...it's rare I get out and do anything social.

 

A big problem I have is that I am happy to do nothing (and consequently always be alone) because that is easier and requires less going-out-on-a-limb.

 

Oh and yeah, if a girl was manipulative to me and treated me like a "whipping boy" I would probably be honoured. I don't have so much self-respect to think that I need to be treated better and I am willing to take whatever bone I am thrown, as sad as that sounds. I have been willing to "hit the ATM" just because it means I will get extra time to have someone to talk to, paying for someone's company...It sounds sad, but I don't mind admitting to it.

But this must be put in perspective... I have no friends and am lucky to have a girl give me the time of day.

I should see a date as "give and take" but somehow I don't mind just paying if it means I get to do just that and nothing more.

 

 

Thanks PocoDiablo for the honest help!

[registered]

Oh, and I could go with her and her friends to the club...I said I would consider it and some other offer I had for that night.

I could go if that is best. But I don't know at all.

[blueangel]

I dont think your social status would matter to her. She wants you but not all of your friends and it is actually great that you felt so comfortable to be yourself with those people. It's okay to let that out. It's still you and you have nothing to be ashamed of. Dont treat your friendship ordeal as some big secret to be let out. As she gets to know you, she'll find out in time... and probably by that time, she'll like you too much to care even at all.

 

I know you say you are introverted, but you just never felt the oppertunity to fully express the other sides that you have. Even if those people weren't close, you WERE being yourself and it's okay to be so.

 

In the meantime, make friends by putting yourself out there. Get contact of at least one person in that group and soon you'll be in. Just stay yourself- let it sparkle

[registered]

I dont think your social status would matter to her. She wants you but not all of your friends and it is actually great that you felt so comfortable to be yourself with those people. It's okay to let that out. It's still you and you have nothing to be ashamed of. Dont treat your friendship ordeal as some big secret to be let out. As she gets to know you, she'll find out in time... and probably by that time, she'll like you too much to care even at all.

 

I know you say you are introverted, but you just never felt the oppertunity to fully express the other sides that you have. Even if those people weren't close, you WERE being yourself and it's okay to be so.

Thanks for your reply blueangel.... but I think it was just the alcohol and that was why I was being different, comfortable. I certainly didn't intend to be outgoing and can guarantee that I wouldn't have been otherwise.

To me this complicates it because I won't be that person again. Does this complicate anything?

[blueangel]

If you have confidence in yourself, you can be as outgoing as you want. Though for now, I wouldn't really stress about it.

[Mrocza]

Oh and yeah, if a girl was manipulative to me and treated me like a "whipping boy" I would probably be honoured. I don't have so much self-respect to think that I need to be treated better and I am willing to take whatever bone I am thrown, as sad as that sounds. I have been willing to "hit the ATM" just because it means I will get extra time to have someone to talk to, paying for someone's company...It sounds sad, but I don't mind admitting to it.

But this must be put in perspective... I have no friends and am lucky to have a girl give me the time of day.

I should see a date as "give and take" but somehow I don't mind just paying if it means I get to do just that and nothing more.

 

Sorry dude, but thats just you not trying. You really want to go out with the girl, your lack of friends won't matter. You say you wouldn't care and yet you're scared she'll think lowly of you. It's a matter of self -esteem. You admit you're lacking it. Work on it. Go out. See what happens.You're worth more than some whipping boy and the only way you're going to change your personal perspective is by thinking differently. You need to stop putting yourself down so much and realize what you are worth!!!!!

you have confidence in yourself, you can be as outgoing as you want.

She said it. PocoDiablo can give you him infamous foolproof dating advice ( ) but none of it will matter unless you put yourself out there. There's nothing wrong with not having friends! Even if it was the alcohol that made you friendly, you weren't faking it. You were friendly, you were sociable. The alcohol made you forget you insecurites and worries...(note: you're sober now = "Mr Psychoanalyze to death")

 

Stop worrying so much! Stop putting yourself down!

The only way you can do anything is if you help yourself.

[registered]

Ok, thanks heaps guys.

 

Yes, it's a matter of confidence. I wish I had more. Now what?

 

I've tried for my entire life to "put myself out there"... I really have tried. After time it hurts too much and it simply doesn't feel worth it. That is why (at least to an extent) I am afraid or lazy.

 

I am happy to admit that I waste a lot of opportunity (I don't even have the opportunity in the first place but I am happy to admit to it anyway). But I have tried. I may not try every time, but I have at some stage or another.

 

Yep I have to be confident. I often tell people that. But the one thing no one ever says is how this can occur.

 

I have tried going out, but think about it this way. If you touch a hot stove are you going to do it again? It is the body's natural way of reacting.

 

How do I go out?

I can't dance and lack a natural talent for it. That rules out the easiest ways to meet people.

My body decides that it doesn't like to talk - that rules out parties.

I can go to the library and read books - I'm good at that. But that won't let me meet anyone.

I have tried any number of hobbies and interests simply to meet people. But it doesn't work. I already have my own interests and they all involve being alone (that is just what they happen to involve).

 

I went to this party because I wanted to try. Believe it or not it was EXTREMELY difficult for me to even show up. I quite simply fear it - that is the way it is... I cannot change this (I can only face up to it to overcome it). It makes life extremely difficult when you fear people.

I try very hard to face up to this, I have to! I do try.

I didn't plan on drinking at the party (I hate poisoning my body) but you know that after hours of not saying a word though trying my very best to I had to do something! Even if it was to simply numb my pain.

 

I approach girls. I go to social events. I smile, laugh, joke, ask etc. I try.

I am going to continue to try, but it is not that simple IMO.

Trying makes it hard for me because I constantly lose out. If I don't try I don't lose. It's just lucky I am not afraid of losing!

 

Maybe life is telling me it is cool to be quiet and shy and not good at conversation?

 

But you know what? I think this bores all of you... I have gone on and on about this before.

 

 

What about this girl? What do I do?

I don't have her phone number and only have the opportunity to speak with her on the internet.

 

If I see her again I will most likely be introverted and shy and not like I was that night. Am I wasting my time hoping she could like me for being this way?

BTW, I am not a negative person about myself if you met me in real life. I am quiet and shy but I am also happy and confident in who I am - I don't lack confidence in being quiet and shy...I lack confidence in being outgoing and likeable. So assume that any negativity I have towards myself in these conversations will not have an effect on my dealings with her.

 

I just want to try. This is just another opportunity to try isn't it?

[PocoDiablo]

Hahahah, Thanks!

What a great response PocoDiablo!

This is what you get when it's a slow day for me.

 

I am just too shy/lazy/afraid...but there's only one solution and that is to be the opposite of each of those, or to at least not let them take control of me. (I am prepared to add nerdy/geeky/boring to that list but everyone says it's a matter of being "interested not interesting"... maybe once you have someone attracted to you it is, but in having someone attracted to you in the first place I'd still guess that you need to have something that makes you stand out...and being nerdy/geeky/boring doesn't do me any favours.)

So don't bring it up. Do you want to know why I learned all this dating advice? Because I am 6' 4", I weighed 150 pounds, and have red hair. I am also a computer geek, and used to be boring as anything. Now I can walk into just about any place and talk with just about any woman I want. What changed? Nothing but my attitude.

 

There was a whole lot of alcohol involved... that definitely made me a lot more outgoing than normal.

Did you know that if you drank water and thought it was alcohol you'd do the same thing? Alcohol does nothing you cannot already do yourself. This is an EXCUSE you are using. Your brain does not physically GROW a "social skills" lump of gray matter while you are drunk and then it goes away. You just fall into the 3's rule - which basically is to go up to someone and start talking to them within 3 seconds so you cannot stop and think about it. Just walk up, start talking. Now your brain is shut off. Easy.

 

I'd like to be like this all the time, but I don't think that is possible. I try to be like that, but so far it just hasn't been so. Again I just avoid social situations and so I just need to face it and do what I have to.

Start practicing. Start saying hi to people. Start talking to guys and girls, even if it's just to ask what time it is. Start small. Start old (older people).

 

Ok, I hope she's not reading this.

Anyway, she had seen me joking around, I was trying to write some one's details down...she offered to do it for me and wrote hers down for me on the same paper because I said she should Lol.

See how easy that was? Confidence pays off. Just like an adult, you asked and got what you wanted.

 

She was just standing beside me and so she was just there.

Then we were talking about her (I really don't know how I was talking... I normally wouldn't have been able to do that) and she told me about herself, asked me about me. She was laughing smiling things like that.

But then she grabs my arm and says come with me... We go sit down somewhere alone and just talk for quite a while. She is staring into my eyes more often than normal, leans close to me. She laughed at my jokes (or at me being so wasted I don't know...).

ALL SIGNS OF HER INTEREST IN YOU. Good signs, too!

 

Also, I was actually able to make interesting conversation with her. She told me where she worked and so I asked for advice relevant to that. She had particular interests and I knew of them myself. It just seemed like she really enjoyed talking to me.

You are a NATURAL and you don't even know it!

 

Okay, side note, this KILLS me. Here you are doing everything right, everything I tell guys to do for a first date, and you don't even know it - and worse - you think you're doing things wrong. People should pay you for this advice, believe me!

 

So it just felt right.

 

Then I speak to her on the internet (it took 3 days for me to work up the "courage" to add her to the list...sad sad sad)

Wrong, wrong, wrong. This was good, good, good! It shows you are not desperate! I tell guys all the time to wait 3-5 days after getting her phone number to call her. You should have asked her on a date, quite frankly, but I think you still could.

 

...she was wondering what I did at the party after I left. I told her. Then she says this, *quote*: "wat did u chat about ey ey????". I am quite sure she was wondering if I spoke about her...the other drunk guys there were giving us * * * * and being suggestive and so I am guessing (ok, hoping) that she was hoping that I had spoken about her and was going to tell her.

Well I didn't speak about her.

AND you are discreet! Talk about a perfect gentleman. Bravo to you.

 

Why I am giving you advice? I should just stop right here. You're doing everything right!

 

Anyway she was polite and more friendly then I would expect (but that is not much of a sign... I'm prepared to err on the side of unreasonable hope though...)

Because she liked you and is trying to IMPRESS you so you ask her on a date!

 

Okay, I have to run, but I will get back to the rest of this later. So FAR you are doing everything correct. There is more to come, though, so sit tight.

[registered]

I have read books on being social and making conversation and making friends - I could even recommend the best ones!

But being able to use this "knowledge" is separate. This is where the lack of confidence comes in I guess.

 

You just fall into the 3's rule - which basically is to go up to someone and start talking to them within 3 seconds so you cannot stop and think about it. Just walk up, start talking. Now your brain is shut off. Easy.

Wow, that makes sense, I will definitely try that, it forces me to be spontaneous.

Yes I will start practising (this was one of my new year's resolutions too, one of about 10 I had written down, that would otherwise have suffered the fate of most people's resolutions)

Ok, so I will try and be social and outgoing like that person somewhere inside me, I think I can pull it off (is that confidence I hear?...)

 

See how easy that was? Confidence pays off. Just like an adult, you asked and got what you wanted.

Lol, I see, I had put it down to luck or her kindness, but ok confidence must work then.

 

Wrong, wrong, wrong. This was good, good, good! It shows you are not desperate! I tell guys all the time to wait 3-5 days after getting her phone number to call her. You should have asked her on a date, quite frankly, but I think you still could.

Ok, that's good. Oh yeah, I still could...

[blueangel]

You need to decide what type of person you want to be- your goals, your virtues, your beliefs, and more. Write it all down of the type of person you want to become. Then, set tiny goals for yourself that go against your normal ways and watch them take shape in your life day by day. I know this sounds like just words but this is in a way, how I redeemed myself.

[alrightie_ms]

Registered...think of it this way. The best people will bring out the best in you and i think you can finish the rest of this sentence also on your own.

 

What's important, you like her and she seems to have given you the green light. Just take it from there and make your move. See, if anything else clicks and if she is really bringing out the best in you. Fun, funny and witty all of a sudden.

 

People react differently to different people and it doesn't make you any less than who you really are.

 

Good luck!

[registered]

You need to decide what type of person you want to be- your goals, your virtues, your beliefs, and more. Write it all down of the type of person you want to become. Then, set tiny goals for yourself that go against your normal ways and watch them take shape in your life day by day. I know this sounds like just words but this is in a way, how I redeemed myself.

I think that is a good idea... I will have to decide who I am and what I want to be. I don't know at the moment. Thanks blueangel.

 

I have spent so long trying to figure it out already though and wasted so much time.

 

Do I have a social side in me? I really don't think so. I had the worst time today wishing I could be social in so many situations where people spoke to me and the best I could do was grunt like a neanderthal.

But I want that side. Got to love the irony.

 

One moment I am confident and the next my high hopes are ruined because I can't live up to them no matter how hard I try.

 

BTW, I like your pic of Chi!

[registered]

What's important, you like her and she seems to have given you the green light. Just take it from there and make your move. See, if anything else clicks and if she is really bringing out the best in you. Fun, funny and witty all of a sudden.

 

People react differently to different people and it doesn't make you any less than who you really are.

 

Good luck! gave a different guy the green light. (he might be in me somewhere, but that's the problem - he's inside me and not on the outside... until he is, I am not that guy!)

It is very unlikely I will be fun, funny and witty all of a sudden. The last time I spoke to her I struggled to make conversation - it is this way with everyone, even my family... I don't know. I made a thread about it a while back and have always just wondered what part of my brain is damaged.

 

I will try and make a go of it though... I can't guarantee it, I would have to work up the courage. It might sound stupid to other people but they just don't understand - it really is a hard thing to do - IMO it is a physical and not a mental deficiency (but I always hope that it isn't).

 

I spoke about a lack of self-respect before... it's the same lack of respect that allows me to do stupid things like ask girls out because I honestly don't care if I make a fool of myself, I don't have anything to lose or anyone to look like a fool to. (She is a close family friend of the one person who voluntarily (actually the only person flat out actually) takes an interest in me, and was the one whose party it was... I don't care if I "make a fool" of myself though...).

 

In all honesty knowing my lack of social grace (I will not be concentrating on this... I will be focusing on relaxing, being myself and hoping to be that person she liked the other night) I don't expect her to be interested in me. But that won't and can't stop me just asking (if I work up the courage).

I am even more confident that even if I could get her to go out with me that would be the first and only time, again for the same reason

 

So basically, I am facing the situation realistically, but still am trying to be hopeful and positive.

 

Thanks alrightie_ms!

 

I'm just too "scared" to open the IM program in case she is online.

[ocrob]

Registered, let me say that I did read your post, but skimmed the rest. I hate doing that, but they were so long. Let me just say that I used to be shy and somehow I am not as shy as I was. I think this woman made you so comfortable that you were yourself, but just not shy. She likes you and she brings out the best in you. You did not lie to her or pretend. You were yourself that night. She likes you and will like you. I just got an IM from my new interest. Good luck!

[registered]

Registered, let me say that I did read your post, but skimmed the rest. I hate doing that, but they were so long.

It's cool! I understand Don't worry.

 

I think this woman made you so comfortable that you were yourself, but just not shy. She likes you and she brings out the best in you. You did not lie to her or pretend. You were yourself that night.

Well it's possible...but I had some assistance in being more outgoing, and it wasn't her presense...

 

I too used to be much more inhibited but I still am too overly inhibited (Before I was essentially mute, and now just appear incapable of intelligent conversation...It's an improvement

[ocrob]

But, you can express yourself very well in the written word. Maybe you are poet or an author. Maybe the next time you want to talk to a woman, you should write your feelings. It can go a long way.

[alrightie_ms]

She gave a different guy the green light. (he might be in me somewhere, but that's the problem - he's inside me and not on the outside... until he is, I am not that guy!)

It is very unlikely I will be fun, funny and witty all of a sudden. The last time I spoke to her I struggled to make conversation - it is this way with everyone, even my family... I don't know. I made a thread about it a while back and have always just wondered what part of my brain is damaged.

 

So basically, I am facing the situation realistically, but still am trying to be hopeful and positive.

 

Thanks alrightie_ms!

 

I'm just too "scared" to open the IM program in case she is online.

 

 

Hey...you know I know this one guy, he's cute, he's smart, he's got some cute charms - of course he didn't believe that he has them. But there was this one time he said to me that he was afraid to ask a girl out cause of afraid to hear the word "NO" so he ended up always waiting for the girls to make the first moves. Tell you the truth...some girls don't really like that no matter how much she is interested in the guy.

 

Don't know why I am telling you this but somehow from the way you wrote i think you've got quite a lot in you to be proud of, which of course is waiting to be discovered by someone.

 

There's nothing wrong in hoping for the best to happen, but just expect the "unexpected" too ok(more like a buffer you know).

 

Anyway. Good luck!

[registered]

But, you can express yourself very well in the written word. Maybe you are poet or an author. Maybe the next time you want to talk to a woman, you should write your feelings. It can go a long way.

Thanks, that's a great suggestion!

[registered]

Thankyou!

[PocoDiablo]

But, you can express yourself very well in the written word. Maybe you are poet or an author. Maybe the next time you want to talk to a woman, you should write your feelings. It can go a long way.

Just don't give that letter to her! Trust me on this one, I've done it several times with very bad results.

 

Personally, I think that it would be better to concentrate LESS on things, and just become more spontaneous.

 

Dare I go back and finish the rest of my other long post?

[registered]

Just don't give that letter to her! Trust me on this one, I've done it several times with very bad results.

 

Personally, I think that it would be better to concentrate LESS on things, and just become more spontaneous.

 

Dare I go back and finish the rest of my other long post?

Yes, please do! I'd appreciate that.

 

No I never planned on giving her a letter... I know that I can't rely on letters.

I agree that if I want to have success I will need to be spontaneous. The letter thing was just a good observation and I will have to remember it - I hope I don't rely on it ever though

 

I was actually planning on asking her out the next opportunity I get to.

She speaks a foreign language I think and I speak a little of it... so I was going to just talk to her in that language and ask her out for coffee.... That was one thing I had considered.

[PocoDiablo]

Part II of II:

 

And I will try to keep it more concise.

 

No worries, just go alone for now. Why bring along a bunch of goofy friends if you just want to get to know her better. Less friends to babysit or say stupid things about you ... this is good.

Well I can't dance (enough alcohol would fix that though...)... the invitation was with her friends to a club

That's not really a date in my opinion, and if her friends are there it may be hard to sit down with her and talk, get to know her, etc. I would pass just on virtue of all that.

 

I think some people make judgements based upon who our friends are.

I couldn't care myself (that would be a little funny all things considered) but I also wouldn't hold this against anyone.

My worry is that she will think of me as a loser because I have no friends. I guess it's not my loss, but I don't want it to happen! I guess that is irrelevant.

I think that would have to be one of your standards that you would have to decide for yourself. Personally, if a woman didn't like ME because of my friends, or lack thereof, I would think she was shallow and not worth my time. I'd blow HER off if she did that, and with a laugh.

 

In the past I have been nervous again but I sometimes faced it and just took the "risk" and it paid off. But that was rare, I usually cowered in the corner in the fetal position...

So if the risk paid off ... why not do it again and again? The biggest thing you have to realize is that probably 90% of women you meet will not be attracted to you, just like 90% of the women you look at may not be attractive to you. No big deal, really, but you do need to go talk to them to find out who likes you. The more women you find out who DON'T like you, the closer you are to success. Just like Thomas Edison, he said something like "I learned 200 ways how NOT to make a light bulb." You need to do the same thing, it's not like any of us are going to score a home run the first or even tenth time we go up to bat. You have to keep practicing.

 

And here she is asking you out because all the guys she hangs with are jerks, rude, players, and she hates that. You're sincere, honest, down to earth and a breath of fresh air. Hello, am I the only one who sees this?

Thanks, but in a fair, honest and reasonable evaluation of myself as other people see me I am not a breath of fresh air... I am seen to be shy and someone who snobs people off because he doesn't have the guts (and the skills, which are in my opinion unattainable... or are a matter of confidence... either one lol) to talk to people. After all, if I were such a great person I would have friends and women showing interest in me.

If you had friends and women showing interest in you, then you'd more likely be a super model. I find that people in real life are shallow and appearance driven. And, quite frankly, if you don't do something to make yourself stand out nobody will notice you.

 

I can walk down the street wearing a nice suit and no one will say hello.

 

Guess what happens when I walk down the same street with my two Great Danes? Yeah, it takes half hour to get one block.

 

Besides, you don't want to have a lot of friends if you're looking for a GF, because then either they will get ignored or she will!

 

Well the way you say it is important makes sense, but I don't believe I am "not like all the other guys she has met" in a positive way... being a nice guy doesn't get you anywhere, women should expect this...to me it is all that comes on top of being a nice guy that matters - I don't have anything on top of the hope that I might be a good guy. I'd like to be some magical guy who is really great but I doubt it... I know that I am not like the guy she saw the other night anyway. I also know that the guy who I am just doesn't do anything for anyone else and I'd say I won't do anything for her. (Maybe I shouldn't see it as my loss.... but in reality it is. It isn't every year a girl like this would make an effort to show interest in me, if that is what she actually did)

BTW, I don't mean to sound so negative about myself.

Well, let me give you some advice to help you along, and some back history so you know where I am coming from.

 

When I was in high school, I was a total geek. I had some "friends" and they were mostly women, but the best I ever had was a long-distance relationship. I felt exactly the way you do now. I was a "nice guy" and only later did I find it insulting. I tried being an a-hole, but that blew up in my face because women don't like that either! Only after a lot of studying, a lot of mistakes, and a lot of practice did I start to realize a few things.

 

First, I was not as dumb as I liked to think I was. I have a brain, and I can use it to solve problems, like being social and meeting women. So I did a lot of research to figure out what I thought I needed to know. I did read a lot of stuff on those dating sites, and a lot of it was absolute HORID as far as I was concerned. But I forced myself to read it and try to understand WHY the techniques worked and then how I could change them to be more mature. That paid off for me.

 

 

Thanks for that dating advice, it's very good.

Thank YOU for letting me know I am on track.

 

Here is some more. I have a lot of mottos that I try to keep in mind when meeting and talking with women, and while brief they mean a lot more to me, not just the words. I will list some of them that come to mind, and you should think about what they could mean to you. Some are just as they mean, others require thought:

 

1. Think

2. Be cocky and funny

3. Treat her like your bratty little sister

4. Be unpredictable

5. Say what is on your mind, but only after you have thought it through.

6. The less you talk, the longer you'll last.

7. Keep your hands off a woman until she touches you first

8. Don't talk about sex, ex's, cars, computers, work, weather, religion, sports, politics, illnesses, depression, anything related to blood and guts, any thing criminal related, or basically anything that is offensive, sad, depressing.

9. Ask people lots of questions if you want to get to know them

10. Flirt with everyone.

 

I have done this sort of thing before, and although conversation doesn't seem to come naturally to me I can probably, maybe (big maybe), adequately inquire about her.

This is very important - you need to make sure she's not just a hot body with no brain. Believe me. Here's another quote: "For every hot chick there is some guy who is sick of putting up with her sh**." And it's true. Don't put up with attitude problems, crybabies, rudeness, or whatever YOU don't like. Basically, for me, if she's not healthy, happy, fun and normal ... good bye!

 

But one problem is that I worry about how she (or anyone I want to like me) views me. If she asks me what I like to do on a friday night and I tell her I like to do some boring nerdy thing she is going to think that I am boring and nerdy. I have no problem with that, I just don't want it to happen.

So then change the topic. Ask her "Why, are you going to ask me out on a date Friday? I may have plans already!" Smile, wink, laugh. Etc. Remember, you don't HAVE to answer every question someone asks you, and if you do answer it you CAN be funny about it.

 

Example - out shopping yesterday for xmas presents. I'm looking at something for the SO and a saleswoman walks up and asks me something like "So who are you shopping for?" to which I replied, while holding up a tiny fuzzy white sweater "Well, it most certaintly is not ME that I am shopping for!" (Keep in mind, I'm 6' 4" and this sweater looked to be about a foot long...) and she laughed. Later, she said the sweater was something a monther would buy, and I replied "As you saying I look like the motherly type?" again with a smile and a laugh and she backtracked quickly. I pointed out that I was kidding, of course. Then I noticed she was doing a hard-sell on a expensive jacket, and said to myself (THINKING - see motto #1) "Hey, most lazy sales folks don't work this hard. She must be the manager." So I told her "Hey, you're the manager, aren't you?" She was clearly amazed that I pegged her so quick. She admitted yes, and then tried to downplay that she was "only" one of three managers. Some more playful banter ensued. In the end I told her what I did, but not without making her guess. So she confided in me that her parents keep trying to set her up with loser guys and she wants advice on dating, so she gave me her number.

 

Now how hard was that? I used mottos #1 - #10 all during the 5-10 minutes I was talking to her, but told her next to nothing about myself - even when she asked I made it difficult, and that was flirting and having fun. The only thing she knows about me is my name, that I have a fiance, and that I give good advice. She doesn't have my phone number or any other info. This is called being a challenge, and it works well for me.

 

You could do the exact same thing. The first thing you have to do is STOP THINKING and go say hi, and then the next thing you need to do is THINK about what the person said, and if you can come up with a clever response.

 

I guess I have to somehow believe that it isn't my loss and somehow be confident that she sees more of me then my interests or anything like that. I'm not judgemental like this myself, but most people I have ever known are like this.

As you said in there it is good to find out what sort of person they are... that is good advice. The thing for me is that chances for dates come up so extremely infrequently... you wouldn't believe it. So I have this pressure of wanting to make sure I don't stuff up any chance I get as it is likely to be my last one!

Then you need to go practice. Go to the mall, go to girlie stores, and poke around. Flirt with the sales women. Don't buy anything, but ask a lot of questions about the products. If they don't know their details, laugh and tell them "What, you don't have every product detail memorized?" or "Stayed up too late last night?" When I went to Bath and Body works I was looking for something and turned around to find a very STUNNING brunette had walked over to see if I needed help. She was easily the best looking woman I had seen all day. But then when I tried to talk to her ... nothing. She was silent. No replies, did ntot laugh at the jokes, did not keep the conversating going. It was PAINFUL. Nice on the outside, empty on the inside. (Of course, she could have just been nervous, but still.... she needs to think less and talk more!)

 

You'd also be surprised how few people listen to you. I was talking with another cashier at the mall, and she had said the lines at the post office were long (I was commenting on the fact that there was no line here, and I hoped the Post Office was the same.) So I asked how she knew, had the been there today? Well, she started talking about how she just moved here or something, not at ALL what I asked, so I stopped her and said "Hey, you never listen to me any more!" and laughed. She looked confused, and then I told her what I had said. She said "Oooh, no, had not been there." and laughed. I took it from there.

 

As background, I asked two girls who I thought were cool out to lunch this year. I tried my best, but I really am not a social person (as much as I'd like to believe otherwise). I did very well and it went ok on both occasions and the best thing was that those occasions weren't the last time I saw those girls again... so to me I'd take that as success on some level...

So you're two for two and now you think you cannot do it again? I think you are more natural than you know.

 

Yeah the date idea sounds nice. But.

I am lazy... I don't have a car or even a license to drive one. She has both, but I wouldn't expect her to drive me.

This limits anything I can do... I just walk or use the dreaded public transport. Technically I can get anywhere lol, but I don't have high standards concerning how I get there - I don't care about driving. She would though!

Why would she want to catch a train? Why would she want to walk?

So she could spend more time with you talking? Sometimes my fiance and I just go driving so we can sit and chat. Of course, at $3/gal that gets pricey!

 

(maybe if the guy was worth that much... but she could easily get a guy with a car if that was important to her...

If it is important to her, is that someone you want to date? I would never date a woman who thought my choice of car was a deciding factor.

 

to me, a car is one such thing that would be considered on top of being a nice guy, for example. And if she had the choice between two nice guys, one with a car and one without, my guess is that she would pick the one with a car).

You are saying you think she is shallow and materialistic. You are pre-judging her. My fiance dated me and I drove a $700 Mitsubishi station wagon, green, covered with dog hair, and that has a huge dent in the front right fender. Te lack of a car, or a crappy car, is a GREAT way to screen out materialistic women who are only dating you for your money. I don't want a woman who wants to date my car, I want a woman who wants to date ME.

 

On my first date with her I brought my Blazer. A "nothing" car (but clean inside) so as not to have to worry about her liking me for my car.

 

I like the idea of coffee but of course I can't pick her up or anything, I'd have to meet her there. That seems ok for coffee, but with anything else it seems like a car would be preferable.

Car is a non-issue. Just call a cab. I know lots of guys who do that and have no problems.

 

A big problem I have is that I am happy to do nothing (and consequently always be alone) because that is easier and requires less going-out-on-a-limb.

Yeah, me too, so I don't go on lots of dates - maybe one or two a week. And I won't date someone who wants to go out every night of the week, either! My fiance is perfect - we both love to go out 1-2 times a week MAX, watch a lot of TV or go to a movie, and we are basically both really lazy. That's the point of dating - is to find out if she likes the same thing you do.

 

If you went on a date and she said she liked to run 25 miles a day, worked out for 2 hours, biked for an hour, worked 8 hours, then gardened for an hour, went out for an hour, then watched the news at 10:00 before getting 8 hours of sleep.... would you want to date her?

 

I'd run away. (Okay, actually I'd just order another drink, I'm not the running type.) But I would not date her, either.

 

Oh and yeah, if a girl was manipulative to me and treated me like a "whipping boy" I would probably be honoured. I don't have so much self-respect to think that I need to be treated better and I am willing to take whatever bone I am thrown, as sad as that sounds.

The only sad part about that is that it will happen and it probably will make things worse - you'll get dumped over and over until you stand up for yourself. Women usually don't like wimps for long.

 

I have been willing to "hit the ATM" just because it means I will get extra time to have someone to talk to, paying for someone's company...It sounds sad, but I don't mind admitting to it.

I used to do that, too, so I know what you mean. But if you have to pay to be with someone then (1) they are not good company (2) you are wasting time with them and (3) the person who does want to be with you does not get a chance since you are busy. You're better off alone, looking for someone who does want to date you.

 

But this must be put in perspective... I have no friends and am lucky to have a girl give me the time of day.

I should see a date as "give and take" but somehow I don't mind just paying if it means I get to do just that and nothing more.

Maybe you have no friends and no women BECAUSE of the fact that you pay for people, because you have no standards. Again, people don't like that. If you tried to pay my way I would not want to hang out with you. If you let me mis-treat you I would have no respect for you and would not want to have you around because I knew you would make me look bad in front of my other friends. Remember, if things are not going your way, then maybe it's because of something you are doing, or not doing.

 

Thanks PocoDiablo for the honest help!

I'm glad you like it, but you need to start acting on it otherwise I am wasting my time as well... see what I mean? People will only stick around for so long if you just act sad and miserable all the time. You've got to go and try some things.

 

So now let's focus on some REAL information. What's going on with this girl? What next? Update me so we can make a plan to ask her out.

[PocoDiablo]

Yes, please do! I'd appreciate that.

 

No I never planned on giving her a letter... I know that I can't rely on letters.

I agree that if I want to have success I will need to be spontaneous. The letter thing was just a good observation and I will have to remember it - I hope I don't rely on it ever though

 

I was actually planning on asking her out the next opportunity I get to.

She speaks a foreign language I think and I speak a little of it... so I was going to just talk to her in that language and ask her out for coffee.... That was one thing I had considered.

Done replied Pardner!

 

So call her up on the phone, in English, and tell her something like "Hey, it's Matt. You know, I've started to notice that you seem to be pretty cool and I'd like to get to know you better. Would you like to go on a date with me to Starbucks this [weekday night, not Fri, Sat] at 6:00 and get a drink and talk?"

 

Then shut up and wait for her answer. It will be one of three:

 

1. Yeah, I'd love to! (Good)

2. Yeah, I'd love to, but I can't that night. How about [other weekday night] at the same time? (Good)

3. Yeah, I'd love to, but I can't because [insert ANY excuse]. I'm sorry! (Bad)

 

If you get #1 or #2 tell her "Great. Let's just meet there so we don't have to fuss with transportation, etc., ok?" Wrap up the call nicely, say thanks, and "Don't be late and I'll see you there."

 

If she asks you to call her and "check in" before you go to Starbucks, this is a VERY bad sign. She will cancel for a variety of reasons. If she says that you just tell her "Hey, if you're not sure of your plans why don't we just do this some other time. I'll call you another day." and then hang up and toss her number.

 

Now, if she says yes, check out if she took the time to make herself up for you. Does she show up in jeans and a sweatshirt, hair in a pony tail? She's not interested. She shows up in a nicely put together outfit, hair done, makeup done, nails done, nice shoes, nice jewelry, perfume, etc.? She's INTO you. Give her ONE compliment such as "You look very nice" or "That's a nice outfit." Keep it simple, do not tell her how hot she looks or that she is sexy. Compliment effort, not existence.

 

Now, you buy her ONE drink and snack but not more than about $10 if possible, and start to get to know her. Ask her lots of questions about what she likes, where she's lived, what her plans are for the future, and ask her to expand on stuff. Be funny if she asks you questions, and just relax. Look her in the eye, do not stare are her body or other women. Treat her like your bratty little sister. Poke fun at her LIGHTLY and NICELY. Do not touch her. However, try to sit someplace side by side and notice if she touches you, such as on your leg, arm, etc. If she touches you, then she is likely interested.

 

Now you just play it by ear. If you think she likes you, then you may want to walk her to her car. Tell her you had a great time - if you did - and if you want another date you should say so. Just matter of fact "I think we should do this again, I had fun." No compliments to her at this point, remember. Then if she reciprocates, look her in the eyes and see if she appears to be open for a kiss. If you don't know, then just lean in slowly and see if she leans into you as well. Light kiss, gently, on the lips, no tongue. If she leans back, shakes you hand, or hugs you then you need to make a decision if you think it's worth another date. Tell her "I'll call you." and head out.

 

Simple.