Don't you think that looks are the most important factor?

[Batya33]

4 hours ago, j41 said:

This is a truly lovely story, thanks for sharing. I'm lonely pretty much all the time and like the initial poster I too looked at these videos but realised they only made me feel worse.

The key is being able to choose how to react to something and situations. I will probably never experience love and that's tough but I can celebrate people like yourself who did get to experience it.

I don't need to be celebrated and I don't think meeting the right person for forever/marriage is guaranteed but you have tons of control to be proactive and choose situations where you are interacting with people who you have things in common with.  Challenging yourself to get out of your comfort zone.  The loving that is important in a healthy relationship is not the feeling but the giving of love and in real concrete simple ways.  The feelings are important to but are not what sustain long term relationships.  There is zero need to celebrate that someone else experienced love or tell yourself you "should" be happy for that person.  If you are, I mean cool.  I had to become the right person to find the right person. As The Chicks sing I took the long way around. It was really really hard. And it was worth it.  Good luck!

[Batya33]

4 hours ago, j41 said:

Ive been on dating apps for many years and to some extent these condition a person to only look at looks over and above but let's also be realistic in person a certain level of attraction is needed.

It's challenging to look at these dating vids because it's easy to get caught up in a narrative one where I think looks are over emphasized.

Yes and level of attraction often has little to do with some silly ranking of physical features. It is important for a person heavily focused on physical features/wants arm candy

[enigma32]

If you're a woman, I'd say looks is most important. If you're a man, it's important but not all-important. As a man, I'd say money and/or charm are much more important than looks. I'm an average looking guy for sure but I've consistently been able to date up because I'm smarter than most guys and I know how to deal with women. Rich guys do even better.

[yogacat]

2 minutes ago, enigma32 said:

If you're a woman, I'd say looks is most important. If you're a man, it's important but not all-important. As a man, I'd say money and/or charm are much more important than looks. I'm an average looking guy for sure but I've consistently been able to date up because I'm smarter than most guys and I know how to deal with women. Rich guys do even better.

That maybe true for women that are looking for sugar daddies. My long term ex that I still consider to this day as my best friend made way less than me and it was never an issue.

You're speaking of women that want to date an older rich guy or simply date them for purely financial reasons which isn't that different from men wanting to date younger, hot women because they make nice arm candy.

But yes, I am sure rich men do tend to have an advantage in the dating world for some people.

[enigma32]

Just now, yogacat said:

That maybe true for women that are looking for sugar daddies. My long term ex that I still consider to this day as my best friend made way less than me and it was never an issue.

You're speaking of women that want to date an older rich guy or simply date them for purely financial reasons which isn't that different from men wanting to date younger, hot women because they make nice arm candy.

But yes, I am sure rich men do tend to have an advantage in the dating world for some people.

Many women prefer to date men who make more money than they do, not just the sugar baby types. If you're a rich guy, you make more than almost all the women. This opens doors for you that would otherwise be closed. And yeah, many of those doors lead to beautiful, younger women.

I once knew an older guy who only pretended to be rich and that was enough for him to date some of the hottest women in town. I'd say that's a serious advantage.

[yogacat]

7 minutes ago, enigma32 said:

Many women prefer to date men who make more money than they do, not just the sugar baby types. If you're a rich guy, you make more than almost all the women. This opens doors for you that would otherwise be closed. And yeah, many of those doors lead to beautiful, younger women.

I once knew an older guy who only pretended to be rich and that was enough for him to date some of the hottest women in town. I'd say that's a serious advantage.

But those women are not interested in HIM, but in his wealth.

And, maybe he doesn't care because he dates the "hottest women" in town. So, sounds like they're a match made in heaven. Both seriously taking advantage of the other one.

[enigma32]

1 minute ago, yogacat said:

But those women are not interested in HIM, but in his wealth.

And, maybe he doesn't care because he dates the "hottest women" in town. So, sounds like they're a match made in heaven. Both seriously taking advantage of the other one.

He was a 60+ year old guy dating 20 year old models.....I doubt he cared. That still doesn't negate the fact that many women do prefer to date men who make more money, so rich men can date more women. That's a hardcore advantage without bringing my old acquaintance into it.

OP was asking about advantages in dating. In my observations, rich trumps all else. Maybe I'm not a romantic but I really don't care why someone is dating someone else. If you're a good looking guy, you're getting dates because of your looks. If you're charming, you're getting dates because of your charm. Cash is no different, it just seems to work the best.

[yogacat]

4 minutes ago, enigma32 said:

He was a 60+ year old guy dating 20 year old models.....I doubt he cared. That still doesn't negate the fact that many women do prefer to date men who make more money, so rich men can date more women. That's a hardcore advantage without bringing my old acquaintance into it.

OP was asking about advantages in dating. In my observations, rich trumps all else. Maybe I'm not a romantic but I really don't care why someone is dating someone else. If you're a good looking guy, you're getting dates because of your looks. If you're charming, you're getting dates because of your charm. Cash is no different, it just seems to work the best.

Well some women will do anything for money. Obviously in your friends case.

No 20 year old woman would be attracted to someone in his 60s unless she wants the money or has daddy issues.

[enigma32]

3 minutes ago, yogacat said:

Well some women will do anything for money. Obviously in your friends case.

No 20 year old woman would be attracted to someone in his 60s unless she wants the money or has daddy issues.

You say no woman in her 20s would be attracted to a rich guy with money.....ok, that's likely true for the most part. So tell me, what is the difference between a woman dating a guy because he's rich and a woman dating a guy because she thinks he's hot? Why should a guy care one way or another as long as he is getting results?

[Batya33]

49 minutes ago, enigma32 said:

If you're a woman, I'd say looks is most important. If you're a man, it's important but not all-important. As a man, I'd say money and/or charm are much more important than looks. I'm an average looking guy for sure but I've consistently been able to date up because I'm smarter than most guys and I know how to deal with women. Rich guys do even better.

I was financially independent and comfortable. I wanted a man who was financially stable like me with a strong work ethic, valued higher education and was ambitious like me. Rich wasn’t a goal of mine in a man and I was focused on saving as much as possible as I hoped to be a SAHM for at least a couple of years and contribute to household expenses if and how needed. 
I didn’t prefer men who were focused on becoming rich. Focused on material things. 
 

[Batya33]

14 minutes ago, enigma32 said:

You say no woman in her 20s would be attracted to a rich guy with money.....ok, that's likely true for the most part. So tell me, what is the difference between a woman dating a guy because he's rich and a woman dating a guy because she thinks he's hot? Why should a guy care one way or another as long as he is getting results?

Because many serious minded people want the result of being with someone with compatible values. My husband wouldn’t have seen me as relationship material if he thought I was dating him because he was handsome or because he was successful. That to him would not have been getting results. Same in my end -I wanted him to be with me for the right reasons. Him being with me mainly because he thought I was pretty or successful wasn’t gonna sit right with me. Other people have different priorities including what you wrote. 

[yogacat]

32 minutes ago, enigma32 said:

You say no woman in her 20s would be attracted to a rich guy with money.....ok, that's likely true for the most part. So tell me, what is the difference between a woman dating a guy because he's rich and a woman dating a guy because she thinks he's hot? Why should a guy care one way or another as long as he is getting results?

What results are of importance to your friend? I guess high brand dating results, i.e. dating women who are considered attractive and desirable by society's standards.

[j41]

3 hours ago, Batya33 said:

I don't need to be celebrated and I don't think meeting the right person for forever/marriage is guaranteed but you have tons of control to be proactive and choose situations where you are interacting with people who you have things in common with.  Challenging yourself to get out of your comfort zone.  The loving that is important in a healthy relationship is not the feeling but the giving of love and in real concrete simple ways.  The feelings are important to but are not what sustain long term relationships.  There is zero need to celebrate that someone else experienced love or tell yourself you "should" be happy for that person.  If you are, I mean cool.  I had to become the right person to find the right person. As The Chicks sing I took the long way around. It was really really hard. And it was worth it.  Good luck!

All true but also I think I've reached a stage where I no longer really care, I've tried to be that best version of myself, tried to just be me but unfortunately dating coaches friends etc all tried to make me pretend to act and be what I am not. Goes back to looks, I'm not bad looking in my mind but i get zero matches so reality might be different.

Dating help videos have relevance only in so much as the concepts are specific but not generic to every person trying to date.

I will be honest I wish I was better looking or had some quality that people actually found attractive/ wanted. The point here is physical attraction can create mutual attraction but it's merely a start, for me what follows has to be a degree of compatibility.

I'd argue online dating has made physical attraction even more important because it's how people are being judged.

[Batya33]

2 minutes ago, j41 said:

All true but also I think I've reached a stage where I no longer really care, I've tried to be that best version of myself, tried to just be me but unfortunately dating coaches friends etc all tried to make me pretend to act and be what I am not. Goes back to looks, I'm not bad looking in my mind but i get zero matches so reality might be different.

Dating help videos have relevance only in so much as the concepts are specific but not generic to every person trying to date.

I will be honest I wish I was better looking or had some quality that people actually found attractive/ wanted. The point here is physical attraction can create mutual attraction but it's merely a start, for me what follows has to be a degree of compatibility.

I'd argue online dating has made physical attraction even more important because it's how people are being judged.

Physical looks were the main way people were evaluated in the bar and club scene pre internet by those people who went there to hook up. 
You don’t have to date and I feel badly for you that you’re giving up for the specific reasons you say. I defer to you it’s your choice !

[j41]

2 minutes ago, yogacat said:

What results are of importance to your friend? I guess high brand dating results, i.e. dating women who are considered attractive and desirable by society's standards.

A lot of people seem to want this, my understanding is there is a significant confidence boost that comes from this situation. As someone low on confidence I tried to attract people like this for a long time, eventually just gave up.

One thing that I think does people a huge disservice is aligning value with attractiveness. Because someone is not physically attractive does not mean they are not a nice person.

[j41]

Just now, Batya33 said:

Physical looks were the main way people were evaluated in the bar and club scene pre internet by those people who went there to hook up. 
You don’t have to date and I feel badly for you that you’re giving up for the specific reasons you say. I defer to you it’s your choice !

I think the hook up culture is again a sign of attraction and validation for many aligned with confidence. A person and feel attractive by being desired and of course the reverse is true. 

I really do encourage people to not take dating advice videos too seriously, I spent a long time feeling very bad about myself because I didn't align, have any of the qualities I was supposed to have. Use them as a rough Guide but when the person giving them is superficially attractive realise the advice will not be very relevant to someone who isn't.

It's probably simplistic to break down why some people perpetually fail at dating and to me confidence, self worth, attraction all pivot around each other, if one is missing the others are generally not there either and by attraction I mean someone believes they are attractive. I speak from experience, I'm missing all three of those but one also can't hate oneself for being unattractive, more helpful is to accept it and rationalise what is versus what you actually want.

 

 

[enigma32]

10 hours ago, j41 said:

I'd argue online dating has made physical attraction even more important because it's how people are being judged.

Of course OLD is all about looks....it's all you have to go on. Most people's profiles are likely 80% nonsense anyway so whether or not you like someone is gonna be based on their pics. Back in my dating days about 10 years ago now, I did really poorly using OLD with only a handful of matches in months. Meanwhile, I was literally being stalked by attractive women barely old enough to buy a beer.

It's also worth noting that if you are this obsessed with looks being everything, you can change your looks considerably. New haircut, lifting weights, changing how you dress, etc. I think everyone needs to hit the gym and lift some weights. If you put the work in there, the ladies will come.

[Batya33]

10 hours ago, j41 said:

I think the hook up culture is again a sign of attraction and validation for many aligned with confidence. A person and feel attractive by being desired and of course the reverse is true. 

I really do encourage people to not take dating advice videos too seriously, I spent a long time feeling very bad about myself because I didn't align, have any of the qualities I was supposed to have. Use them as a rough Guide but when the person giving them is superficially attractive realise the advice will not be very relevant to someone who isn't.

It's probably simplistic to break down why some people perpetually fail at dating and to me confidence, self worth, attraction all pivot around each other, if one is missing the others are generally not there either and by attraction I mean someone believes they are attractive. I speak from experience, I'm missing all three of those but one also can't hate oneself for being unattractive, more helpful is to accept it and rationalise what is versus what you actually want.

 

 

Dating is a broad category. My friend who is 60 something is now dating for fun - only fun.  She now wants to make sure she has a valentines day date as it will be fun.  She is only clicking on men she finds really handsome and hot and mostly younger.  She is very pretty. I dated only to find the right person to marry especially after age 22.  If I was single now because something god forbid happened to my husband I could see myself dating for a variety of reasons (although not to hook up) if/when I was ready to date again.  So failing at dating depends why you are dating in the first place. Also what criteria you have. My friend is focused heavily on looks right now.  My friend's  daughter is in her mid 20s and is dating a jerk actually and if she agreed to another date it would be mostly to force herself to put herself out there not with any true motivation to connect.  My other friend's daughter is in her early 30s, busy with grad school and a job and dates mostly to hook up. She looks like a model and you can imagine she doesn't have much trouble finding men to hook up with. So she doesn't fail at dating.  

I'm so so sorry you felt badly about yourself.  You shouldn't be your own worst enemy!

My mom gave the best dating advice despite having dated very little and not at all after age 16 when she met my dad. I'd go out with a guy who would be a total jerk and she'd say "this is good! you know it can't get worse!!" She liked most of the men I introduced her to and sometimes they'd meet someone I was casually dating if we all had theater tickets. There was one man -a really nice person - who was sober from drugs and alcohol for over a year and active in AA and NA.  She said to me -look he is nice for sure.  But he is -bland -like flat emotionally and I don't think he's a match for you.  She was right. 

I felt like a failure being in my late 30s and "still single" and I did "give up" for a few months when I was 38.  I get it.  But please don't be your own worst enemy and please avoid videos and people who spew ridiculous cliches about dating and what "failure" is.

[j41]

1 hour ago, enigma32 said:

Of course OLD is all about looks....it's all you have to go on. Most people's profiles are likely 80% nonsense anyway so whether or not you like someone is gonna be based on their pics. Back in my dating days about 10 years ago now, I did really poorly using OLD with only a handful of matches in months. Meanwhile, I was literally being stalked by attractive women barely old enough to buy a beer.

It's also worth noting that if you are this obsessed with looks being everything, you can change your looks considerably. New haircut, lifting weights, changing how you dress, etc. I think everyone needs to hit the gym and lift some weights. If you put the work in there, the ladies will come.

I'm quite happy with my physique and body type. It's so easy to hate oneself and I did for years because I'd literally never get dates when everyone else was. I'm sadly not blessed with the most attractive face and being shy and lacking confidence don't help.

I had to make a choice, either continue hating myself or be at peace with what and who I am. It's incredibly difficult and it's a day by day task. Today I saw an incredibly attractive to me person in the past years I'd have hated myself because well I'd have no chance, I'd be angry and bitter but one day I realised that served no purpose. Instead I could just acknowledge in my mind that the person is attractive and carry on with my life.

There is a great deal of power in being able to control ones emotions. I won't lie though it's difficult most days.

Attraction can't really be rationalised.

[Seraphim]

Seeing A LOT of difference between what is needed for a date as opposed to a long standing relationship. A vast difference. 

[j41]

1 hour ago, Batya33 said:

Dating is a broad category. My friend who is 60 something is now dating for fun - only fun.  She now wants to make sure she has a valentines day date as it will be fun.  She is only clicking on men she finds really handsome and hot and mostly younger.  She is very pretty. I dated only to find the right person to marry especially after age 22.  If I was single now because something god forbid happened to my husband I could see myself dating for a variety of reasons (although not to hook up) if/when I was ready to date again.  So failing at dating depends why you are dating in the first place. Also what criteria you have. My friend is focused heavily on looks right now.  My friend's  daughter is in her mid 20s and is dating a jerk actually and if she agreed to another date it would be mostly to force herself to put herself out there not with any true motivation to connect.  My other friend's daughter is in her early 30s, busy with grad school and a job and dates mostly to hook up. She looks like a model and you can imagine she doesn't have much trouble finding men to hook up with. So she doesn't fail at dating.  

I'm so so sorry you felt badly about yourself.  You shouldn't be your own worst enemy!

My mom gave the best dating advice despite having dated very little and not at all after age 16 when she met my dad. I'd go out with a guy who would be a total jerk and she'd say "this is good! you know it can't get worse!!" She liked most of the men I introduced her to and sometimes they'd meet someone I was casually dating if we all had theater tickets. There was one man -a really nice person - who was sober from drugs and alcohol for over a year and active in AA and NA.  She said to me -look he is nice for sure.  But he is -bland -like flat emotionally and I don't think he's a match for you.  She was right. 

I felt like a failure being in my late 30s and "still single" and I did "give up" for a few months when I was 38.  I get it.  But please don't be your own worst enemy and please avoid videos and people who spew ridiculous cliches about dating and what "failure" is.

My purpose has always been for long term to share life with the good and the bad. At one stage I did want a family.

Like most guys hooking up does appeal but I have neither the experience, confidence and physical looks to attract people I'd want to be intimate with, for there has to be some I dunno conversation connection.

Im not really interesting in a conventional way so I'm very much an outlier. I watched lots of dating videos which took me to a very dark place I had to work hard at getting out of.

If I could have one thing now it would probably be to spend time with someone I really feel something for.

[enigma32]

3 minutes ago, Seraphim said:

Seeing A LOT of difference between what is needed for a date as opposed to a long standing relationship. A vast difference. 

One must first learn to crawl before they can learn to run. Wouldn't do a guy any good to know how to keep a LTR going if they can't even get a woman to talk to them.

[enigma32]

12 minutes ago, j41 said:

I'm quite happy with my physique and body type. It's so easy to hate oneself and I did for years because I'd literally never get dates when everyone else was. I'm sadly not blessed with the most attractive face and being shy and lacking confidence don't help.

I had to make a choice, either continue hating myself or be at peace with what and who I am. It's incredibly difficult and it's a day by day task. Today I saw an incredibly attractive to me person in the past years I'd have hated myself because well I'd have no chance, I'd be angry and bitter but one day I realised that served no purpose. Instead I could just acknowledge in my mind that the person is attractive and carry on with my life.

There is a great deal of power in being able to control ones emotions. I won't lie though it's difficult most days.

Attraction can't really be rationalised.

It's not about physique and body type, it's about being a man. I was the strongest guy in my old gym back in the day and I had some pretty college girl talk to me about helping her with weight lifting. 1 week or so later we were dating. She wasn't even the only girl I dated from there.

Attraction doesn't need to be rationalized. Just accept things as they are and learn to take advantage.

I've always had a lot of female friends. I hear all their complaints about men. It's beyond easy to set yourself apart from the pack with a bit of effort. Get a decent job, get your own place, lift some heavy weights, and educate yourself on various random topics. Most guys can't be bothered to do these things so they fail.

[Seraphim]

23 minutes ago, enigma32 said:

One must first learn to crawl before they can learn to run. Wouldn't do a guy any good to know how to keep a LTR going if they can't even get a woman to talk to them.

If my husband could do it at 20 and was so shy he was stuttering just to ask me out anyone can do it . 

[enigma32]

2 minutes ago, Seraphim said:

If my husband could do it at 20 and was so shy he was stuttering just to ask me out anyone can do it . 

I agree with you here. Just gotta take that leap. You and your husband got lucky though. A lot of guys try and fail miserably over and over.