Frustrated

[ShySoul]

@Brooklyn84 People have a very strict idea of what is right or wrong. They see a person sending sexual photos and that becomes their only quality. Truth is, people are more then one thing. You are the one who knows him. You are the one who have spent years talking to him.

A person isn't who they are in the last conversation. They are who they've been the entire time.

So who is he really? What is the pattern, the trend? Is this who he is, the defining characteristic? Of is there something more to him? We can't say, we've never spoken to him. Only you can figure that out.

What I care about is you and your happiness. I care about you finding what makes you feel good about yourself. It could be him. It might not be. That's up to you to decide. If it is him though, you need to talk with him and clearly define where you are and what you want. As I said before:

6 hours ago, ShySoul said:

This is really about you and what you want. This is about doing what is best for your mental health. If this is someone you can't get over, there is a reason for it. There is something about him that you like, something within him that is appealing. Figure out what that is. Figure out if it is worth the downsides that comes with him. Then talk to him. Draw a line on what you want and need. Make clear what is acceptable and what is not acceptable. Stand up for yourself and have the relationship that you want with him, whatever that may be.

 

[Jaunty]

18 minutes ago, ShySoul said:

@Brooklyn84 People have a very strict idea of what is right or wrong. They see a person sending sexual photos and that becomes their only quality.

I have no problems whatsoever with nudes, sexting, whatever.  I do have concerns when a man's interaction with a woman is confined to this, and he doesn't even extend the courtesy to acknowledge the one she sent to him.   

He's a loser.

[Brooklyn84]

10 hours ago, ShySoul said:

Did you ever hear from him? 

I don't feel you are begging to be treated with dismissive disrespect. I think there is something about him that you really do like and have feelings for. I think he has shown signs of being a decent person and those are the parts you are responding to. And I think you have a more casual attitude towards sex, sexting, photos, etc. Whereas others see it as sign a guy is only horny and thus is no good, you are more open.

Problem is, he is also not fully mature and ready for what you appear to want. 

People are complex. It is easy to pile on him and think he is no good. But no one is 100% good or bad. Everyone is a mixture. Your relationship and interactions aren't entirely about sex. So I don't think it's fair to assume that is all he is into. And I don't think it's fair to judge a person for something that happened years ago. Are any of us the same people we were seven years ago?

This is really about you and what you want. This is about doing what is best for your mental health. If this is someone you can't get over, there is a reason for it. There is something about him that you like, something within him that is appealing. Figure out what that is. Figure out if it is worth the downsides that comes with him. Then talk to him. Draw a line on what you want and need. Make clear what is acceptable and what is not acceptable. Stand up for yourself and have the relationship that you want with him, whatever that may be.

Believe in yourself. You're an awesome person and deserve something equally awesome.

I see that he saw the picture text. Many days later I sent a message and said on here that I would give him 24 hours to reply. As of right now... 11PM Fri on the Pacific coast of the US ... He has not opened nor obviously replied to said message. 

I'm not bugging him again. 

[Brooklyn84]

3 hours ago, Jaunty said:

I have no problems whatsoever with nudes, sexting, whatever.  I do have concerns when a man's interaction with a woman is confined to this, and he doesn't even extend the courtesy to acknowledge the one she sent to him.   

He's a loser.

Right. Him sending his D pix at any given time and then not replying to me at all after I sent one is just bizarre to me. Let's say for whatever reason he doesn't like the picture or would prefer (because I have never sent one to him before) that I didn't send them... I would expect that he would tell me so or at least because we had been consistently texting for a solid month that he would reply by changing the subject. He is flat out ignoring me now. Whatever the reason is, I really don't know, but it is what it is. I'm not bugging him again about anything. He will either come back around or he fell off the planet.

[Batya33]

9 hours ago, Jaunty said:

I have no problems whatsoever with nudes, sexting, whatever.  I do have concerns when a man's interaction with a woman is confined to this, and he doesn't even extend the courtesy to acknowledge the one she sent to him.   

He's a loser.

Same- depends on context, the relationship etc - I too was responding to this specific situation.

[Batya33]

6 hours ago, Brooklyn84 said:

Right. Him sending his D pix at any given time and then not replying to me at all after I sent one is just bizarre to me. Let's say for whatever reason he doesn't like the picture or would prefer (because I have never sent one to him before) that I didn't send them... I would expect that he would tell me so or at least because we had been consistently texting for a solid month that he would reply by changing the subject. He is flat out ignoring me now. Whatever the reason is, I really don't know, but it is what it is. I'm not bugging him again about anything. He will either come back around or he fell off the planet.

I think you're focusing on the wrong thing -maybe it's easier to get all in a huff about the niceties of how and when to respond to a photo of your naked breasts as a 'reply" to the words he wrote- but overall this person does not care about you as a person so why expect him to fall in line in this situation as if he did? It's less emotional on your end, less hurtful to point out his breach in "manners" or how he is "ignoring" you -why not change yourself -you let yourself -you as a person -be cast aside and ignored in your interactions with him.

[Jaunty]

9 hours ago, Brooklyn84 said:

 He is flat out ignoring me now. Whatever the reason is, I really don't know, but it is what it is. I'm not bugging him again about anything. He will either come back around or he fell off the planet.

Am I correct in inferring from this that, if and when he "comes back around," you will be as available as always?   

Is there anything this guy could do that would inspire you to move on from him - permanently?  Whether he shows up again or not?

The pattern seems pretty clear that he will be back around  when he has nothing he feels is more compelling than seeing you, talking with you, spending time.

Relationships are not fairytales ... but really, it's not to much to ask to be somewhat of a priority to a man you have feelings for.  You deserve that.  

[ShySoul]

13 hours ago, Jaunty said:

I do have concerns when a man's interaction with a woman is confined to this, and he doesn't even extend the courtesy to acknowledge the one she sent to him.   

He's a loser.

How do we know his interactions have been confined to this? You think sexting is the only thing they have done for the eight months they were dating or the years that they have spent messaging each other? Or the only thing they did in the month leading up to this? And even if it was, if it was a mutual and consensual decision, what place is it of anyone else to judge?

I'd rather hear from the source before making that judgement. @Brooklyn84 Has sex been the only topic discusssed? Were you okay with talking about it?

And we have no idea what happened to him. For all we know he was in an accident. 

I don't chose to call someone a loser. Do onto to others as you would have them do onto you. Judge not lest ye be judged.

I don't want people who have never even talked to be to criticize and throw negative labels at me. So I don't do it to them. I would want people to keep an open mind, so I keep one about others.

 

 

[ShySoul]

9 hours ago, Brooklyn84 said:

Right. Him sending his D pix at any given time and then not replying to me at all after I sent one is just bizarre to me. Let's say for whatever reason he doesn't like the picture or would prefer (because I have never sent one to him before) that I didn't send them... I would expect that he would tell me so or at least because we had been consistently texting for a solid month that he would reply by changing the subject. He is flat out ignoring me now. Whatever the reason is, I really don't know, but it is what it is. I'm not bugging him again about anything. He will either come back around or he fell off the planet.

You are focused on the picture. You are focused on the negative of him "ignoring" you. That's creating a negative feedback loop where you just get more and more fustrated with him. It's not helping you and only hurting you worse.

The key here is to focus on you. Think less of him and more of you. All these posts fixated on him are adding to the problem. This is about you. What is it that will make you happy? Is it him? Is it something else? Figure that out.

And if you must have an answer, don't ignore him. Don't speculate on the why. Don't get angry and avoid it. Confront it and confront him. Tell him precisely how you feel. Get it all out there. His response will say who he is. He may come clean and say something happened. He may get angry in return. Whatever it is, you will have an answer. That will relieve the tension inside of you. And that, more then anything else, will allow you to move on, in whatever direction things go.

[yogacat]

You're giving this man far too much credit Shy! He certainly wasn't showing any concern for her feelings while he was sexting now was he? That says plenty about him right there.

Absolutely because he said he wanted to cuddle up and then got the image of his choice and didn't respond at all? That doesn't take much effort at all. That doesn't make him sound shy or considerate to me. It makes him a ***** flake and an *** and flat out enough he was only being superficial and too damned lazy and obtuse. 

[Jaunty]

@ShySoul - one of the features of a forum like this is that we get one side of any situation, and all we get is what the person chose to share.   With the info given by the OP,  I feel 100% comfortable judging this guy as a loser.  

   

 

 

[Jaunty]

15 minutes ago, yogacat said:

Absolutely because he said he wanted to cuddle up 

He didn't even say HE wanted to cuddle up, and he did not say anything about the OP.  He said his JUNK wanted NICE T*I*T*S.  

So "he" was reduced to his penis, and the t**s were not even assigned to any particular female body.  Just free floating body parts.

[ShySoul]

3 minutes ago, Jaunty said:

@ShySoul - one of the features of a forum like this is that we get one side of any situation, and all we get is what the person chose to share.   With the info given by the OP,  I feel 100% comfortable judging this guy as a loser.  

One of the problems with forums in general is that you only get one side of the equation and people make snap judgements without considering that they may be getting biased information (not saying that is the case here) or missing key pieces of information.

I've had many cases on this forum where people rushed to call someone a loser or to say bad things about them. Then some other piece of information comes out and suddenly it's a different story. A few weeks ago people were quick to label a women as immature, selfish and rude and claim that she didn't want a relationship with someone. I put a different spin on it and took a more sympathetic approach. Turns out the girl wasn't any of those things and she and the poster got into a relationship. 

Never said he was right for anything he has done. I'm just not calling him a loser and turning him into a villian.

I don't even want to focus on him. He's been given to much focus as it is. I care about Brooklyn. I want the focus to be on what she wants, which is why my advice to her has not been about how bad the guy is, it is to figure out herself and pursue what will make HER happy. 

[ShySoul]

27 minutes ago, yogacat said:

You're giving this man far too much credit Shy! He certainly wasn't showing any concern for her feelings while he was sexting now was he? That says plenty about him right there.

Absolutely because he said he wanted to cuddle up and then got the image of his choice and didn't respond at all? That doesn't take much effort at all. That doesn't make him sound shy or considerate to me. It makes him a ***** flake and an *** and flat out enough he was only being superficial and too damned lazy and obtuse. 

Respectfully, we don't know the nature of their interactions. We don't know if she likes that kind of thing. Some men do. Some women do. I don't and it's clear everyone else finds it deplorable. But I recognize that my views are not shared by everyone. I recognize that everyone is into something and it's really not my business what they like. If they want to do it, it's not my place to tell them it's wrong so long as they both are consenting adults.

He's sent pics of himself before. If she wasn't okay with it, she could have told him to stop or blocked him. She didn't. He made a comment. He didn't ask for the picture. She willingly sent it. It was her idea. She is 50% of the equation. So to label him as the bad guy ignores the choice she made of her own free will.

I was once criticized and punished for defending people choosing to stay virgins. Now I'm in the wrong for saying people shouldn't be sl*t shamed. Can't people's sexual choices just be there choices without people needing to weigh in or make claims about the people?

And I never said he was shy or considerate. I've said he has made mistakes and done things that put him in a questionable light. I just know we only have two incidents to go off of while she has years of experiences with him. I'm trying to get her to consider the entirety of those years and see what the overall pattern is. I wouldn't want to be judged for my worse moments without a thought to everything else I've done in my life.

Actually, I was. I was even judged for moments I never did. It hurt. So I won't do it to others.

[rainbowsandroses]

1 hour ago, ShySoul said:

I don't even want to focus on him. He's been given to much focus as it is. I care about Brooklyn. I want the focus to be on what she wants, which is why my advice to her has not been about how bad the guy is, it is to figure out herself and pursue what will make HER happy. 

^^Fair point and re what makes her happy, after reading all her posts, my assessment is apparently she didn't mind him referring to his d*** as "junk wanting to cuddle some nice t*ts" (not even her t*ts, just some nice t*ts).

Which as disgusted as many of us are by that comment, is her prerogative.

She also apparently wasn't all that bothered when he unceremoniously dumped her seven years ago by disappearing to be with another woman which is also her prerogative.

She's 40 years old, she knows what she wants and apparently it's HIM.  Admittedly, if he came back around she'd be thrilled. 

Despite what we think, she doesn't think he's a loser..   Just my read on it and sometimes as responders, we simply have to accept that and respect her decision?   As detrimental as we think her decision may be? 

@Brooklyn84you have received tons of great feedback and advice here, it's your choice whether to take or leave. 

Sometimes we have to learn the hard way, by doing and failing (if failing is even the right word).  I just can't think of a better word right now. 

I've done it myself! 

In time we become fed up and eventually turned off and make the choice to leave, for good.  Clearly, you're not there yet,

My personal prayer for you is that you will be someday soon. 

Take care.

 

 

 

[Batya33]

2 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

She's 40 years old, she knows what she wants and apparently it's HIM.  Admittedly, if he came back around she'd be thrilled. 

I think it's up for debate as to whether she knows what she wants -as a reasonably healthy/stable person-she's shared about her mental health challenges.  I hope as well she knows soon she has had enough and knows why she deserves to interact with someone where there is mutual respect.

I wouldn't judge how he chooses to approach and communicate with her if she was a sex worker.  And for sure if she has accepted this sort of interaction in the past he's entitled to keep on with it seeing as she comes back for more. I do think how he treated her in the past was jerky. I think it's weird not to react at all to a photo of her breasts this time if he has in the past - I mean maybe he  thought he did -like he thought he clicked some emoji but he didn't.  Who knows.

[ShySoul]

@Brooklyn84 Wanted to say something that I think may have been lost in all the talk about this guy, something that is far more important then any guy, photo, or sex topic could be. 

You talked about your mental health. You said you got help for it. I have struggled with mental health and depression as well. My family wasn't always the most supportive of me. I've felt like giving up before. And it has also hurt me in the romance field. I understand what it is like to struggle. I also get what it's like to care for someone people say are no good for you.

In the end what matters is how you feel. You need to take care of yourself. Focus on your mental health and make sure you are stable and okay. Do what makes you happy and brings you joy. Do things that you find fun and uplifting. Take care of your mental health and work on being comfortable with who you are. The opinions of anyone else - the guy, you're mom, or random people online - isn't as important as your opinion of yourself.

Hoping for the best for you, in all areas.

[Jaunty]

1 hour ago, rainbowsandroses said:

 Despite what we think, she doesn't think he's a loser..   Just my read on it and sometimes as responders, we just have to accept that and respect her decision?   As detrimental as we think her decision may be? 

 

This is the truth.  To an extent, anyway.   

This is an advice board.  There are behaviors and states of mind that are objectively self destructive.  Also there are those which are objectively destructive to other people.  

I won't be accepting or respecting a decision to act upon those FEELINGS, though 100% will respect the person's freedom to make such a decision  and act upon it, and will stop bugging them to please stop throwing themselves under busses once it's very clear that they're committed to remaining in this pattern.  

Anyone who describes themselves in an abusive or destructive situation (whether to themselves or others)doesn't need advice to to "do whatever you feel."   Rest assured - that's exactly what they are going to do.   They ARE doing what they feel.  

I think they come for advice because something inside them might be opening a crack to seeing a different way.

 

 

 

[ShySoul]

I think people always know what they want inside of them. They know themselves and the situation far better then anyone else, especially random people they don't know who have no knowledge of the history or ins and outs of the situation, which can make a big difference. 

In my experience people don't generally want an answer. They don't want to be told what to do. They want to be heard. They want a chance to vent. They want someone to understand them. They want to know they are not alone. This site isn't called "edifferentwayofthinking." It's called enotalone. 

I found this site because I felt alone, like no one understood me. I stayed because of the words of one person who I felt did understand me. They didn't tell someone what to do or how to think. They didn't try to get people to think differently. They met the person where they were at and related to them. She did the same for me when I asked her for advice. She helped people see the answer was within us all along, we just needed to be open to it. And I've tried to carry on that style ever since.

https://psyche.co/ideas/recognise-the-point-of-giving-advice-and-you-can-do-it-better

"An overbearing advisor treats any complaint as an invitation to problem-solve. When actually asked for advice, they are either overly verbose, offering an extensive description of what they know about the topic, or too directive, making immediate pronouncements about what ought to be done."

"Quite often people just need to vent and, when they do want advice, the manner of advising matters just as much as the content."

"But as an advisor, you aren’t really supposed to be directing someone or deciding what to do with them. You are engaging in a complex form of make-believe."

[LotusBlack]

On 12/18/2024 at 11:54 AM, Brooklyn84 said:

I was pissed that he just up and moved with her. But what was I going to do?

Block his a**? I would be so put off by a guy like this. I’d be even more put off by d*ck pics, particularly unsolicited.

[yogacat]

4 hours ago, Jaunty said:

He didn't even say HE wanted to cuddle up, and he did not say anything about the OP.  He said his JUNK wanted NICE T*I*T*S.  

So "he" was reduced to his penis, and the t**s were not even assigned to any particular female body.  Just free floating body parts.

He said "my junk just wants some nice *** to cuddle with." But still...

[yogacat]

3 hours ago, ShySoul said:

Respectfully, we don't know the nature of their interactions. We don't know if she likes that kind of thing. Some men do. Some women do. I don't and it's clear everyone else finds it deplorable. But I recognize that my views are not shared by everyone. I recognize that everyone is into something and it's really not my business what they like. If they want to do it, it's not my place to tell them it's wrong so long as they both are consenting adults.

He's sent pics of himself before. If she wasn't okay with it, she could have told him to stop or blocked him. She didn't. He made a comment. He didn't ask for the picture. She willingly sent it. It was her idea. She is 50% of the equation. So to label him as the bad guy ignores the choice she made of her own free will.

I was once criticized and punished for defending people choosing to stay virgins. Now I'm in the wrong for saying people shouldn't be sl*t shamed. Can't people's sexual choices just be there choices without people needing to weigh in or make claims about the people?

And I never said he was shy or considerate. I've said he has made mistakes and done things that put him in a questionable light. I just know we only have two incidents to go off of while she has years of experiences with him. I'm trying to get her to consider the entirety of those years and see what the overall pattern is. I wouldn't want to be judged for my worse moments without a thought to everything else I've done in my life.

Actually, I was. I was even judged for moments I never did. It hurt. So I won't do it to others.

But we do know the nature of their relationship. They dated, he dumped her 7 years ago for another woman, and now he's back trying to hook up with her. And just because a woman has sent a topless photo in the past doesn't mean she's okay with receiving unsolicited pictures and comments now. Consent is not a one-time thing, it's an ongoing conversation. And just because she didn't immediately shut him down doesn't mean it's okay.

And it's not just about this one incident - it's about the overall pattern of his behavior, which includes dumping her for another woman and then randomly wanting to meet up with her to hook up. That's not respectful or considerate. And while it may not be my place to judge someone's specific sexual preferences, it is absolutely my place to call out toxic and disrespectful behavior. I will always defend people's right to make their own choices, but I will also always speak up when I see someone being treated unfairly or disrespectfully.

[ShySoul]

6 hours ago, yogacat said:

And just because a woman has sent a topless photo in the past doesn't mean she's okay with receiving unsolicited pictures and comments now. Consent is not a one-time thing, it's an ongoing conversation. And just because she didn't immediately shut him down doesn't mean it's okay.

She didn't sent him a topless photo in the past. She sent the topless photo in this current incident. She gave her consent within the last couple of weeks, when the photo was sent. 

Of course consent is an ongoing discussion. Should she never do it again or talk to him again, I fully support that. I have always agreed his behavior is questionable at best. But I also see someone who willingly participated in it. That is more then not shutting him down. That was raising the stakes. She had a role to play in all this too. She never had to send the picture. She could have turned him down. She didn't.

I'm choosing to not take sides or place blame on any one person. I see two people who behaved in a manner that most clearly this is disturbing, but both were actively involved and wanted the exchange. If it is okay or not can be debated. But for BOTH of them, at that time, they were okay with it.

7 hours ago, yogacat said:

And it's not just about this one incident - it's about the overall pattern of his behavior, which includes dumping her for another woman and then randomly wanting to meet up with her to hook up.

What we know of the timeline:

1. They dated for eight months. We don't know what their relationship or interactions were like during that time. If it went on for that long, I would think there was some good behavior in there that kept her interested.

2. He left her seven years ago for someone else. I've always agreed it was wrong. It was also seven years ago. I made mistakes seven years ago. People have found it in them to forgive me within that time. The two of them apparently made up enough to stay in contact for years. I'm not sure why the people posting here are more upset about it then the person who actually went through it. If she found herself able to forgive and move on, can't the rest of us?

3. They kept in contact for years. He indicated long ago that he was thinking of moving back. She indicated she would be open to seeing him then. This wasn't random. This was something they had considered in the past.

4. He didn't ask to hook up immediately. They have been talking everyday until this happened. He moved back, got in touch with her, and was regularly talking with her. We don't know the nature of those chats. We know some of it was sexual. But there could have been a lot more to it. And she also didn't have a problem with the sexual parts. She has never seemed bothered by it. 

7 hours ago, yogacat said:

it is absolutely my place to call out toxic and disrespectful behavior. I will always defend people's right to make their own choices, but I will also always speak up when I see someone being treated unfairly or disrespectfully.

As you should. You're always fair. You're understanding and compassionate. You have a great heart. You're smat. You are among the handful of truly great posters I've had the pleasure of interacting with on here. I hope you continue to post and speak up for years to come because this site benefits from it and everyone you address comes out better having heard what you say. I almost always agree with you. And even here I think you are right. I don't particularly like him or his behavior. I wouldn't want to be with a woman who acted like that. I agree he has been disrespectful. I've never said to be with him. I hope she doesn't.

My issue has always been that I think there has been too much focus on how horrible he was for making such a comment, and not enough focus on trying to reach her where she is at. We get that he was disrespectful. I believe she even said so herself. Beating her over the head with it doesn't help. It can even backfire. Actually talking to her and relating to her feelings, of figuring out where her line is instead of where we believe it should be... I feel that is how you reach a person. She seems to have different levels of acceptance then most people here. So I want to know what is okay in her mind and what isn't. I want her to focus on what she wants, what the breaking point is for her. 

People have different tolerance levels. What is okay for one, isn't okay for another. I just want her to think about and figure out what is right for her.

[MissCanuck]

OP, just be done with this guy. 

It is quite obvious you don't want the same things. 

[Batya33]

7 hours ago, ShySoul said:

They kept in contact for years. He indicated long ago that he was thinking of moving back. She indicated she would be open to seeing him then. This wasn't random. This was something they had considered in the past.

It depends on the nature and purpose of contact and we know the overwhelming reason for their direct contact and we also know it was random contact and sporadic after he ended things so rudely and offensively. That's where things can get unhealthy fast when all "contact" "over years" is lumped together. Especially since in all those years neither of them ever asked the other out on a proper date planned in advance -the only plans to meet in person were for sexual reasons, the only direct words were related to sex not about dating in any getting to know you as a person again way.

My husband and I kept in random contact for the 7 years we were broken up.  It did not mean either of us wanted to be together in a relationship or even a good friendship.  We each had significant others during part/most of that time and the contact over the years were emails of the sort you might find on a holiday card -catching each other up impersonally.  We met once in person before reconnecting and that was when we were both uncommitted but the purpose was friendship and it was only that. He was in contact with me via email to express condolences when my cousin died as he had known her.

That contact meant nothing about wanting to be with each other nor do I look back on it that way ata ll- I don't agree you look at how long and and that all contact is the same and that is the standard by which to judge whether to invest time in a person for romantic purposes. 

This person who sexts with the OP invests time in contact when he feels like it -most likely when he's horny as he knows it's an easy hit -he'll get his sexting pleasure/cheap thrills from a photo and if he feels like meeting up for sex he knows she's game if his other options don't work out. He knows she is in contact with him despite how he treated her when they briefly dated. 

Miss Canuck of course expressed it more succintly and no I don't buy everyone is different (or that all contact is contact and shouldn't be assigned different meanings) - people move towards pleasure and away from pain -if the OP seemed healthy and stable and described herself that way and wanted to meet up with this man for sex I'd tell her -double text him -ask him if he needs other photos or what in the world he needs to reach her goal of meeting up with him and hooking up and getting off.  That's moving towards pleasure in a healthful way.  She is not approaching this from a reasonably secure reasonably healthy self esteem way and she's wasting time with all this annoyance and negativity over a man not responding to a naked photo of herself.  If she were I wouldn't judge her choice to be sexually active in any way she pleases as long as it was with mutual consent.

Also as far as being too fast to write someone off there's no need for that in most situations because there are so many options for boundaries-where the person who is annoyed or offended can limit contact/place boundaries/put conditions on how she wishes to be treated if contact will continue. 

Some things are dealbreakers but I don't see people writing off people they know or have known well in the past on a whim.  In this particular situation I don't think there is any reason for contact now. In the future if she is a reasonably secure person and he approaches her with genuine intentions and from a kind and caring perspective, with thoughtfulness -sure anything can happen but the remote possibility of that isn't worth any more time or emotions on her part.  JMHO