Navigating conversations about wanting children while dating in your 30s

[Seraphim]

3 hours ago, Batya33 said:

So then no adoption or surrogacy? Fostering? Not judging - it wasn't really for us either -maybe surrogacy if it had come to that.  Maybe.  There are no guarantees of conceiving, carrying to term, healthy baby - no matter what the age.  Yes of course there is a balancing of the risks -we did no invasive tests because of the risk of miscarriage but did allll blood tests (on me) and ultrasounds I could get -and I got a lot as a geriatric/high risk pregnancy. Then later blood tests became even more accurate -so you're in luck if you and your partner might consider termination or other options should the baby/fetus have issues.  Which can happen whenever.  This is why having a child or adopting a child is a wild unpredictable ride (and totally worth it IMO!)

My friend's last pregnancy in the 90s -after 3 kids - was at age 34.  She was told there was a 5 percent or less chance the baby would be born with part of the brain missing or severely damaged -sorry I'm no scientist but literally that's what it was.  That baby is in her late 20s now, gorgeous and lovely person with a nice husband and 3 kids of her own.  But - this happens -we get to have more info but sometimes that info -to a pregnant woman -is really stressful!!

I like Cherlyn's approach.  We were able to skip over so much of that because we were older parents who had each been high earners for years and each saved so much.  We knew I wanted to be a SAHM and we knew we'd have zero family help because we were relocating 800 miles away for his job and because oour parents -since we were older -were also older and unable to do physical caretaking for various reasons -despite really wanting to! I did tons of solo parenting given my husband's travel including overnight by myself when our son was 2 weeks old, when he had a raging ear infection, stomach virus, suspected concussion (no there was none but it's no fun to have to shine lights in a sleeping kid's eyes every couple hours all night), when he broke his tooth on a camp's floor.

So you have to as Tinydance pointed out have  a partner who is on the same page with you about caretaking including is she willing to have family members watch the baby/hire sitters etc.  What do you two think about preschool and what age since now some kids go at 2 or they call daycare "school".  (Mine went part time starting at 3.5).  How about religion and specifically with kids - because sometimes people have verrrryyy different ideas about religion when it comes to whether to expose kids to a religion, which one, how much.  

And healthcare - are you both into traditional medicine, how do you feel about vaccines cause those start realllyyyy early now at least here with newborns/infants. Do either of you insist on owning a private house before you have a baby, how do you two feel about buying in a neighborhood without great schools so then you're doing home school or private? How do you feel about discipline?

Are you each willing to read parenting books/go to parenting classes maybe or is one of you like "give me a break with all that woo nonsense word salad - my parents simply told me go to your room or my parents wanted me to have everything my heart desired and I want the same.  Are the inlaws allowed to come over whenever or is one of you the type who likes their space and doesn't want to have a random knock at the door? 

You can discuss all of this quickly -but for some of this - not everyone knows how they will react or what they feel -but if you actually know the person over a period of time, know their family, their people -you actually do IMO get a good sense of their approach to parenting at least in many ways that count.  (My husband thought the parenting class we took was hilariously funny diapering a baby doll and the instructor writing in big letters on the board "bady" instead of baby lol.  He also thought it was funny when he was peed upon by his 12 day old son while changing a diaper.  And that's why I married him.  It actually is really important -that sense of humor thing - more than you would think.

Yes, disability can happen at any time. I was 30 and my husband was 27 when our son was born. Our son is disabled and now 27 himself . He lives at home and always will. 
 

I didn’t think about having a disabled child at 30 but it definitely can happen. My husband is neurodivergent and our son has a different and more serious disability than his father . 

[catfeeder]

On 11/25/2024 at 8:43 AM, camouflage said:

How can I approach this topic with women in a way that’s both respectful and constructive?

At some point, any woman is likely to pick up whether your focus is authentically about getting to know her and possibly find love with her as opposed to seeking the earliest possible incubator to meet your requirements.

I'd consider @bluecastle's post carefully to ensure that I can relax my focus enough to prioritize finding love with a woman rather than staying so tightly wound around the potential use of her womb.

[Andrina]

Children obviously eventually leave the nest (with exceptions, as another poster mentioned). Some move to other towns, states, or even another country. Many are no longer present in your daily life. If you live a good long life, once the kids become independent, your partner for the next thirty or forty years will still be the partner you're sleeping in bed with, eating meals with, engaging in leisure activities with. So isn't better to be damned careful, while taking a wise amount of time, about your choice of who you wish to be your lifetime partner? That's the person you'll be spending the majority of your time with during your lifetime. Children will flourish when their parents are truly in love and it shows in their behavior toward one another. I once had neighbors where it was clear the mother had created an overly child-centric household and her relationship with her husband took a back seat. I assumed they'd eventually divorce, and that did happen when their child was a teen.

Divorce, when you share children, can create a great financial hardship. Instead of one household, there will then be two, and the breadwinner is usually the one who takes the greater hit. An even bigger gamble is to not really know your spouse well before marrying, and find out they have a dark side and will become nasty in a divorce. If you think that's mere fantasy, just look at the recent Black Swan manslaughter case in Florida. "Prosecutors alleged that she shot him during a custody battle and wanted to keep their daughter to herself." They married 13 days after meeting.

[Seraphim]

2 hours ago, Andrina said:

Children obviously eventually leave the nest (with exceptions, as another poster mentioned). Some move to other towns, states, or even another country. Many are no longer present in your daily life. If you live a good long life, once the kids become independent, your partner for the next thirty or forty years will still be the partner you're sleeping in bed with, eating meals with, engaging in leisure activities with. So isn't better to be damned careful, while taking a wise amount of time, about your choice of who you wish to be your lifetime partner? That's the person you'll be spending the majority of your time with during your lifetime. Children will flourish when their parents are truly in love and it shows in their behavior toward one another. I once had neighbors where it was clear the mother had created an overly child-centric household and her relationship with her husband took a back seat. I assumed they'd eventually divorce, and that did happen when their child was a teen.

Divorce, when you share children, can create a great financial hardship. Instead of one household, there will then be two, and the breadwinner is usually the one who takes the greater hit. An even bigger gamble is to not really know your spouse well before marrying, and find out they have a dark side and will become nasty in a divorce. If you think that's mere fantasy, just look at the recent Black Swan manslaughter case in Florida. "Prosecutors alleged that she shot him during a custody battle and wanted to keep their daughter to herself." They married 13 days after meeting.

Exactly children are meant to leave the nest and no longer spend extensive time with you . 

[Cherylyn]

18 hours ago, camouflage said:

Economically, I have a lot to offer. I own a house (which is a huge asset at my age in my country) and I have an excellent, not-too-stressful job that will provide me with a good income for the coming years.

This is a superb foundation for a family. I think a new partner would only need to work 2 or 3 days a week, and we could still live very comfortably. So, that’s not a problem.

By the way, I really enjoy this almost business-like way of thinking and planning. I have no problem organizing my life in this way. But my ex always got furious when I presented things to her in these terms, so I can imagine that many women might find this approach too business-like or unsexy.

 

If she has to work 2 to 3 days a week,  she might as well work full time because there isn't much difference between 2 - 3 days and 5 days.  A few days off is still exhausting when a mother is burning the candle at both ends.  Carrying a baby for 9 months,  giving birth,  having most responsibilities on her plus employment is taxing. 

If she has more choices and options to stay home for a few years,  it's more doable and manageable. 

[mylolita]

Hi OP! 
 

I’m sorry if I’ve got lost off or have  facts mixed up. I read your post when you initially started this thread and decided to step back and see what advice you were given because; these threads come up very often (family, marriage, how to date with a serious mind to find your life partner etc) and I didn’t want to jump in because my view is often very different from the status quo here.

 

I am myself 34, and have been happily married 16 years now. I have three children. I had my first son when I was 28, had my daughter when I was 29 and my last baby girl when I was 31. I purposefully had them close together. 
 

All I can is a different perspective, and that is this observation - it is not you wanting a woman to be, ultimately, a mother and nurturer, as one of the most important deciding factors that is the problem. In fact, to traditionally minded people, it’s totally normal and very admirable and attractive. This was a woman’s role in human history up until about 1965. Media and government, cultural trend shifts; have tried to bash it out and make it uncool. That’s fine, but that’s other people’s agenda. You are on your agenda, and you still want a nurturing woman who will be happy to raise her children and make it her sole priority whilst they are little (as they are only small for a short number of years) then there is nothing, and I mean nothing, wrong with that at all OP.

 

One of my major preferences for picking my husband was I could predict he would be an outstanding father, and better yet - he wanted children and to be married. Your goals and aspirations simply have to line up, these are desperately important things (marriage, children, how to raise them) and they ca. make or break relationships. People waste years, especially women, they waste their biological fertile years faffing around casually dating thinking they’ll be young and healthy forever. It doesn’t work that way. We are mortal and time is limited. 
 

If family is your goal, like it was mine and my husbands - don’t be ashamed to put it out there. Basically, it sounds like you’re fishing in the wrong pool. You need to be meeting like minded, traditional women. The old school women, basically. The women who want a man who is a provider and to raise a family without having to work. 
 

Women like this are usually found in religious settings. But more conservative parts of any country will have them. People who still uphold marriage and family as a priority and the most beautiful thing. 
 

And your rough age range of 27 to 28 is not silly or bigoted at all. If you met a woman tomorrow who was 28, dated her and lived with her for 3 years before you both decided to tie the knot, she’s still going to be 31, and then it takes roughly a year to cook up one baby, and that’s if everything goes to plan. It’s classed as normal to take 12 months to conceive a baby, and women usually have to let their bodies adjust for 3 to 6 months if they are to come off contraception and have their fertility and periods back to normal/regulated again. 
 

This stuff all takes time. 
 

So I would suggest to you, if family is your goal, and a wife who adores children and the home and raising them is your dream - dip into the conservative minded pool - or go where traditionally minded women are. If you are religious, attend church as women there are also much more likely to be family orientated and after marrying before having children. 
 

I really wish you all the best of luck. Having a family is, for me anyway, been the best and most beautiful thing I’ve ever done. Being able to raise my children fully, to always be there for them, to not have to work and to be able to breastfeed them and hold them when they fall whenever, wherever - has been the biggest privilege of my life. I thank my husband everyday for working so hard and having the ability to provide that for me and the children. 
 

Stick to your dreams and your ambitions. People who often tell you life ain’t all about children often, ironically, don’t even have children themselves, and probably never will. 
 

Walk your own path. And your own path sounds traditional. And there ain’t nothing wrong with that, dear OP! 
 

x

[camouflage]

17 minutes ago, mylolita said:

Hi OP! 
 

I’m sorry if I’ve got lost off or have  facts mixed up. I read your post when you initially started this thread and decided to step back and see what advice you were given because; these threads come up very often (family, marriage, how to date with a serious mind to find your life partner etc) and I didn’t want to jump in because my view is often very different from the status quo here.

 

I am myself 34, and have been happily married 16 years now. I have three children. I had my first son when I was 28, had my daughter when I was 29 and my last baby girl when I was 31. I purposefully had them close together. 
 

All I can add to this from a different perspective is - it is not you wanting a woman or life partner to be, ultimately, a mother as one of the most important deciding factors that is a problem. In fact, to traditionally minded people, it’s totally normal. This was a woman’s role in human history up until about 1965. Media and government and cultural trend shifts have tried to bash it out and make it uncool. That’s fine, that’s other people’s agenda - but if you still want a nurturing woman who will be happy to raise her children and make it her sole priority whilst they are little (as they are only small for a short number of years) then there is nothing, and I mean nothing, wrong with that at all OP.

 

One of my major preferences for picking my husband was I could predict he would be an outstanding father, and better yet - he wanted children and to be married. Your goals and aspirations simply have to line up, these are desperately important things (marriage, children, how to raise them) and they ca. make or break relationships. People waste years, especially women, they waste their biological fertile years faffing around casually dating thinking they’ll be young and healthy forever. It doesn’t work that way. We are mortal and time is limited. 
 

If family is your goal, like it was mine and my husbands - don’t be ashamed to put it out there. Basically, it sounds like you’re fishing in the wrong pool. You need to be meeting like minded, traditional women. The old school women, basically. The women who want a man who is a provider and to raise a family without having to work. 
 

Women like this are usually found in religious settings. But more conservative parts of any country will have them. People who still uphold marriage and family as a priority and the most beautiful thing. 
 

And your rough age range of 27 to 28 is not silly or bigoted at all. If you met a woman tomorrow who was 28, and dates her and lived with her for 3 years before you both decided to tie the knot, she’s still going to be 31 and then it takes roughly a year to cook up one baby, and that’s if everything goes to plan. It’s classed as normal to take 12 months to conceive a baby, and women usually have to let their bodies adjust for 3 to 6 months if they are to come off contraception and have their fertility and periods back to normal/regulated again. 
 

This stuff all takes time. 
 

So I would suggest to you, if family is your goal, and a wife who adores children and the home and raising them is your dream - dip into the conservative minded pool - or go where traditionally minded women are. If you are religious, attend church as women there are also much more likely to be family orientated and after marrying before having children. 
 

I really wish you all the best of luck. Having a family is, for me anyway, been the best and most beautiful thing I’ve ever done. Being able to raise my children fully, to always be there for them, to not have to work and to be able to breastfeed them and hold them when they fall whenever, wherever - has been the biggest privilege of my life. I thank my husband everyday for working so hard and having the ability to provide that for me and the children. 
 

Stick to your dreams and your ambitions. People who often tell you life ain’t all about children often, ironically, don’t even have children themselves, and probably never will. 
 

Walk your own path. And your own path sounds traditional. And there ain’t nothing wrong with that, dear OP! 
 

x

Thank you for your beautiful and loving response! It's something I can definitely work with. I'm curious—are you a Christian yourself?

By the way, I don't find much fault with the advice. Everyone has their own worldview, and as I mentioned in my story above, I happen to be in the somewhat unfortunate situation of living in a completely secular and progressive environment while personally holding much more traditional values. I’ve long wanted to be a father, and having a family has been my greatest drive since finishing my studies in my early 20s. Incidentally, I was raised Christian but no longer practice.

It seems like a challenging combination to find a woman who isn’t religious yet is still caring and family-oriented. Just this morning, I had to turn down a woman, which hurt me deeply. Her family is simply too religious and Christian for it to work.

In short, it’s a difficult clash of worldviews for me, as I’m hoping to find that one conservative, traditional woman who isn’t overly religious.

[Batya33]

3 minutes ago, camouflage said:

unfortunate situation of living in a completely secular and progressive environment while personally holding much more traditional values

That's your choice unless I'm mistaken.  I moved 9 miles from my parents house after grad school to be right in the middle of the city teeming with singles instead of right outside the city.  Also so I had more time for a social life and to find a husband - this way I could walk to work most days and the men I met and dated mostly lived right in the city too.  I do know of people who cannot relocate in any practical way -they care for elderly parents for example or of course their work.  

My husband and I both wanted me at home full time - we  discussed this early on, we were going to be relocating too with no family help so we discussed that too.  I had amassed a substantial nest egg by age 42 and he told me I absolutely did not have to contribute $ while home and if I wanted a cleaning service and/or a mother's helper/sitter etc -go for it.  I trusted fully that he meant it -no issue.  But for myself I did want to contribute so for those 7 years I paid half our rent and off and on for groceries (for example if I wanted something $$ for myself etc) .

I remember having to do weeks of paperwork and forms and finding info in connection with my ability to work in our new state in the future -our son was a toddler - and oh man it was so hard to find that uninterrupted time to focus on getting all the details right, making the phone calls, obtaining past records.  And my son was a good napper! I say this because - that is work - and I cannot imagine having had to do that 2-3 days a week as paid work and be the kind of mom I wanted to be for our son.  

I wanted to add -as much as I knew my future husband so well having been engaged to him in the past, and even though we were in our late 30s when we got back together - I cannot imagine either of us having wanted to try to have children only months in to getting back together -we were crazy lovebirds, we were having a blast getting to know each other -no "issues" - but it was like knee jerk reflex not to try to have a child until we'd been back together longer despite both wanting a family 110%. Having said that we had always known that if we had an accident (yes we always used protection!) we would have had the baby and made it work. 

I think we both knew -not a worldview -a mature adult view IMO that we needed to be together, a couple, for awhile before taking that step.  And we were comfortable trying before being engaged or married since we already had those plans in place.

[mylolita]

18 minutes ago, camouflage said:

Thank you for your beautiful and loving response! It's something I can definitely work with. I'm curious—are you a Christian yourself?

By the way, I don't find much fault with the advice. Everyone has their own worldview, and as I mentioned in my story above, I happen to be in the somewhat unfortunate situation of living in a completely secular and progressive environment while personally holding much more traditional values. I’ve long wanted to be a father, and having a family has been my greatest drive since finishing my studies in my early 20s. Incidentally, I was raised Christian but no longer practice.

It seems like a challenging combination to find a woman who isn’t religious yet is still caring and family-oriented. Just this morning, I had to turn down a woman, which hurt me deeply. Her family is simply too religious and Christian for it to work.

In short, it’s a difficult clash of worldviews for me, as I’m hoping to find that one conservative, traditional woman who isn’t overly religious.

 

 

Camouflaged! 
 

You’ll laugh, this is unexpected, but you couldn’t have someone further away from religion than myself!

 

Like you, I grew up and still am in a very liberal, secular, modernist area where women are expected to go to university, even have a masters and focus on their career until about 38 and the magically just pop out one baby between then, and then back to being a “girl boss” for the rest of?! 
 

I am not religious at all. I was raised a Methodist Christian but fell off that band wagon at about 14 years old. I spent my college working all the shifts I could get at fancy cocktail bars. I met my husband at 18. I was also a lapdancer. Yes, I know 😆 I did this between the ages of 18-22. I married my husband at 24 and we bought our first house together when I was 25. 
 

Always been strangely traditionally minded when it comes to gender roles even though I have a very strong libertarian side to me. 
 

Women like me are definitely out there. We know the most beautiful way to raise children is the mother home whilst they are very little and the father being the rock, financially and emotionally. It’s a fantastic combo that’s worked since time began. It’s full of amazing purpose and responsibility, and intense joy and achievement. There is nothing better than having people compliment your children on how well mannered they are, how kind they are, or how full of energy and happy they are. It will make your heart burst! 
 

I have worked and had a boss send orders down to me, give me my job list. They say jump and you say, how high? I didn’t find that happiness for me and I didn’t feel this huge surge of independence I was supposed too.

 

Basically, I live life how I want and spend my time how I want, which for now, is enjoying a lovely lifestyle and all the time (precious time!) with my three children who are ages 6, 5 and 3! I wouldn’t change the way I did anything for the world.

 

And when I am 45, my son (eldest) will be 18. And maybe I could start a new chapter then. Take on work or further education or decide on some other dream! But I will always, ALWAYS! Be a mother and a wife first. Before all else. And I’m so proud to say it. 
 

Isn’t anything wrong with living your life traditionally and I would even argue it’s a beautiful recipe for contented ness, fulfilment and happiness! 
 

I would say finding traditional women is harder, especially in rich western countries. So many women in their 20s and 30s and just simply “having fun” and in their career worlds. I would try and find those traditional niches. Church would be one of them but if you are not religious, it is quite phoney in a way. I wish I had better suggestions. You could, on a dating profile, say you’re traditional and peg out in a blurb a bit of that. It’s highly attractive to some women and definitely not a turn off to the ones you’d want to attract anyway! 
 

It was kind of chance I bumped into my husband and we were so like minded in a modern world. It was quite lucky. If you are your authentic self, I do believe you attract other people who align with your ideals and inner philosophy though. It’s almost like some strange law of attraction! You repel the people who don’t agree with you anyway (bonus) and attract the ones that affiliate with your morals and philosophy! Especially if you are open and simply unapologetic about who you are and what you stand for. 
 

I would also add, the age gap where the woman is younger and the man is older, for a traditional set up, does seem to be quite ideal. There are many factors for this OP. One - it takes money to buy a house and support a wife and children. An older man is likely to be further on financially and able to do this than a younger man. Two - a younger woman has biology and time on her side. And if you want more than one child, this is almost essential. 
 

The dynamic works quite well. My husband is 9 years older than me. He’s been able, we’re lucky, that I don’t have to work to be able to afford to keep my kids and me. And in return, so was just young enough to have a run of kids very easily and thankfully, without complications and to conceive speedily with all three. I count my blessings every time, even though of course, I’m not religious! 
 

It sounds calculated but these are practical things to think about in life and dating. It’s just a dream/goal after all like any other, and needs working out and managing.  
 

Life isn’t ideal but if you start with a clear head and give anything time and focus, the likelihood is, if it’s your priority, you’ll eventually get there. 
 

I really wish you the best of luck! I wonder if there are conservative or traditional dating sights?! 
 

x

[Tinydance]

29 minutes ago, mylolita said:

Hi OP! 
 

I’m sorry if I’ve got lost off or have  facts mixed up. I read your post when you initially started this thread and decided to step back and see what advice you were given because; these threads come up very often (family, marriage, how to date with a serious mind to find your life partner etc) and I didn’t want to jump in because my view is often very different from the status quo here.

 

I am myself 34, and have been happily married 16 years now. I have three children. I had my first son when I was 28, had my daughter when I was 29 and my last baby girl when I was 31. I purposefully had them close together. 
 

All I can is a different perspective, and that is this observation - it is not you wanting a woman to be, ultimately, a mother and nurturer, as one of the most important deciding factors that is the problem. In fact, to traditionally minded people, it’s totally normal and very admirable and attractive. This was a woman’s role in human history up until about 1965. Media and government, cultural trend shifts; have tried to bash it out and make it uncool. That’s fine, but that’s other people’s agenda. You are on your agenda, and you still want a nurturing woman who will be happy to raise her children and make it her sole priority whilst they are little (as they are only small for a short number of years) then there is nothing, and I mean nothing, wrong with that at all OP.

 

One of my major preferences for picking my husband was I could predict he would be an outstanding father, and better yet - he wanted children and to be married. Your goals and aspirations simply have to line up, these are desperately important things (marriage, children, how to raise them) and they ca. make or break relationships. People waste years, especially women, they waste their biological fertile years faffing around casually dating thinking they’ll be young and healthy forever. It doesn’t work that way. We are mortal and time is limited. 
 

If family is your goal, like it was mine and my husbands - don’t be ashamed to put it out there. Basically, it sounds like you’re fishing in the wrong pool. You need to be meeting like minded, traditional women. The old school women, basically. The women who want a man who is a provider and to raise a family without having to work. 
 

Women like this are usually found in religious settings. But more conservative parts of any country will have them. People who still uphold marriage and family as a priority and the most beautiful thing. 
 

And your rough age range of 27 to 28 is not silly or bigoted at all. If you met a woman tomorrow who was 28, dated her and lived with her for 3 years before you both decided to tie the knot, she’s still going to be 31, and then it takes roughly a year to cook up one baby, and that’s if everything goes to plan. It’s classed as normal to take 12 months to conceive a baby, and women usually have to let their bodies adjust for 3 to 6 months if they are to come off contraception and have their fertility and periods back to normal/regulated again. 
 

This stuff all takes time. 
 

So I would suggest to you, if family is your goal, and a wife who adores children and the home and raising them is your dream - dip into the conservative minded pool - or go where traditionally minded women are. If you are religious, attend church as women there are also much more likely to be family orientated and after marrying before having children. 
 

I really wish you all the best of luck. Having a family is, for me anyway, been the best and most beautiful thing I’ve ever done. Being able to raise my children fully, to always be there for them, to not have to work and to be able to breastfeed them and hold them when they fall whenever, wherever - has been the biggest privilege of my life. I thank my husband everyday for working so hard and having the ability to provide that for me and the children. 
 

Stick to your dreams and your ambitions. People who often tell you life ain’t all about children often, ironically, don’t even have children themselves, and probably never will. 
 

Walk your own path. And your own path sounds traditional. And there ain’t nothing wrong with that, dear OP! 
 

x

Well I can't argue with your beliefs because they aren't wrong. They're just your own (and other people's) personal beliefs. But I don't actually think that women (or men) need to be traditional or live a specific lifestyle in order to be good parents.

One thing that's universal of course is they have to be good people and good parents. They have to love their children and provide a good nurturing environment for them. But a woman doesn't necessarily need to be religious, traditional or purely a stay at home mother. I think there are a lot of different women who want children from all walks of life. And a woman can still work part-time and the child can go to daycare. I think going to day care is actually good for them because they can socialise, gain new skills and make friends. 

I think we need to remember too that just because a woman might be more traditional doesn't necessarily mean she'll want children fast. And not all religious women believe in no sex before marriage so want to get married quickly. I've known people who went to church and they didn't live a wild lifestyle or something. But they still had sex with their serious partner before they were married. So if they don't care about the no sex before marriage part then they aren't necessarily going to be in a huge hurry to marry and have kids.

[mylolita]

4 minutes ago, Tinydance said:

Well I can't argue with your beliefs because they aren't wrong. They're just your own (and other people's) personal beliefs. But I don't actually think that women (or men) need to be traditional or live a specific lifestyle in order to be good parents.

One thing that's universal of course is they have to be good people and good parents. They have to love their children and provide a good nurturing environment for them. But a woman doesn't necessarily need to be religious, traditional or purely a stay at home mother. I think there are a lot of different women who want children from all walks of life. And a woman can still work part-time and the child can go to daycare. I think going to day care is actually good for them because they can socialise, gain new skills and make friends. 

I think we need to remember too that just because a woman might be more traditional doesn't necessarily mean she'll want children fast. And not all religious women believe in no sex before marriage so want to get married quickly. I've known people who went to church and they didn't live a wild lifestyle or something. But they still had sex with their serious partner before they were married. So if they don't care about the no sex before marriage part then they aren't necessarily going to be in a huge hurry to marry and have kids.

It’s interesting Tiny,

 

Have you ever been married or a mother yourself? 
 

A lot of people have a lot of opinion and apparently “know” how to raise children and have happy marriages without ever having come near any of that!

 

I find it a curious thing! 
 

I wouldn’t give car advice because I know nothing of it. I know what cars I like, I could presume or have a gut feeling… but I wouldn’t know. 
 

There are many ways to find a partner, decide who to marry, decide how and when and if to have children. All depends on the couple. I believe the nuclear family concept works the best and creates happy, stable children. That is, as you said, just my opinion.

 

I’ve been married for a decent amount now and have three children. I feel slightly qualified to give advice and offer what I think works. Other people will have other opinions. Often they’ve never even had children or never been married.

 

OP’s come here and can choose what advice they would like to take away, it makes no difference to me if someone agrees with what I say or even thinks it’s right. 
 

I’m coming from a genuine place as a mother and a long term wife and offering guidance. I take it the OP seems traditionally minded like myself, and not progressive. So I chimed in because I think I have the alternative opinion he might be interested in hearing. 
 

There is another way than woman works full time, father works full time, one child and 50/50 divide of domestic house chores.

 

I offer a glimmer into that strange, elusive conservative set up. Am I like, the Trad Wife? Maybe 😆 Or “last housewife standing” as I like to think. 
 

OP is free to take whatever advice he feels is helpful. 
 

x

[mylolita]

12 minutes ago, Tinydance said:

Well I can't argue with your beliefs because they aren't wrong. They're just your own (and other people's) personal beliefs. But I don't actually think that women (or men) need to be traditional or live a specific lifestyle in order to be good parents.

One thing that's universal of course is they have to be good people and good parents. They have to love their children and provide a good nurturing environment for them. But a woman doesn't necessarily need to be religious, traditional or purely a stay at home mother. I think there are a lot of different women who want children from all walks of life. And a woman can still work part-time and the child can go to daycare. I think going to day care is actually good for them because they can socialise, gain new skills and make friends. 

I think we need to remember too that just because a woman might be more traditional doesn't necessarily mean she'll want children fast. And not all religious women believe in no sex before marriage so want to get married quickly. I've known people who went to church and they didn't live a wild lifestyle or something. But they still had sex with their serious partner before they were married. So if they don't care about the no sex before marriage part then they aren't necessarily going to be in a huge hurry to marry and have kids.

You’re preaching to the wrong choir Tiny, as I was a stripper and worked as a lapdancer for 3/4 years in my youth. 
 

I am also very traditional minded, but not your “average traditionalist”.

 

People come in all shades of nuances. It’s very patronising to presume I wouldn’t already know that, being a woman who has lived life very fully and is 34. 
 

What I am offering is practical suggestions on how to move forward and date. We have time as a pushing factor here in life and dating is a numbers game. You want to maximise your chances by fishing in the right pools, so to speak. 
 

 

[Tinydance]

12 minutes ago, mylolita said:

It’s interesting Tiny,

 

Have you ever been married or a mother yourself? 
 

A lot of people have a lot of opinion and apparently “know” how to raise children and have happy marriages without ever having come near any of that!

 

I find it a curious thing! 
 

I wouldn’t give car advice because I know nothing of it. I know what cars I like, I could presume or have a gut feeling… but I wouldn’t know. 
 

There are many ways to find a partner, decide who to marry, decide how and when and if to have children. All depends on the couple. I believe the nuclear family concept works the best and creates happy, stable children. That is, as you said, just my opinion.

 

I’ve been married for a decent amount now and have three children. I feel slightly qualified to give advice and offer what I think works. Other people will have other opinions. Often they’ve never even had children or never been married.

 

OP’s come here and can choose what advice they would like to take away, it makes no difference to me if someone agrees with what I say or even thinks it’s right. 
 

I’m coming from a genuine place as a mother and a long term wife and offering guidance. I take it the OP seems traditionally minded like myself, and not progressive. So I chimed in because I think I have the alternative opinion he might be interested in hearing. 
 

There is another way than woman works full time, father works full time, one child and 50/50 divide of domestic house chores.

 

I offer a glimmer into that strange, elusive conservative set up. Am I like, the Trad Wife? Maybe 😆 Or “last housewife standing” as I like to think. 
 

OP is free to take whatever advice he feels is helpful. 
 

x

Yes I'm a mother of a 2-year-old boy. I just don't talk about it that much here unless it comes up, like in this thread lol I'm in a civil partnership but I'm not married on paper. I respect your views but I just don't completely agree with them lol I remember you mentioning that you're bisexual so I find it interesting that you really think a nuclear family is the best. I'm pansexual and a lot of my friends are gay, bi or transgender. A lot of my friends are also polyamorous (I'm not). There are different shapes and sizes to a family. Like, single women who used a donor, same gender parents, single fathers, grandparents raising a child, and so on. Ideally of course you'd want two parents who are actually together but it doesn't always end up that way.

Also having children isn't the only happiness in life and some people just don't want children. So people with no children might  be giving certain advice not because they're ignorant but because they truly are happy WITHOUT children.

Also OP did say he's not actually religious or traditional in lifestyle sense. He just said he really wants children.

[Batya33]

Before I was a mother I babysat a lot, worked in a daycare (during the Challenger explosion!), taught kindergarten, was a summer nanny in a rich beach town, taught grades k-6 and volunteered in homeless shelters reading to children for many years (teaching was my first career and lasted 3 years after college or so).  I never gave parenting advice but I did give input about children -about the part I had experience with -educating, teaching reading, etc.  My sister was a mom during much of this time as she married young and had 4 kids.  I didn't "not" give advice just because I wasn't a mom - but because I am a person who defers to parents (and teachers!) by default so it's not my place.

I have received much much better advice and input from non-moms than moms -now  that I have been a mom for 15 years. Not always but very very often.  Advice about steps  to take to evaluate school issues, how to juggle work and childcare, how to juggle marriage and childcare! And by contrast I've received input from moms that are basically - all moms "should" live in a suburb and get their kids involved in many activities and especially sports, moms should have sleepovers at their house as much as possible, cook elaborate meals, volunteer a lot at the child's school to get in good with the teacher (believe me - don't try this lol), and on and on.  Other mothers gave me awesome advice especially in urgent situations. Best advice -the best parent IMO believes in herself/himself -the best parent stays true to their values, is open to input but from a perspective of self confidence and trust and you know your kid! 

Many people become parents and really know little about parenting in general -they may know their kid very well, they may have a set approach in their individual family but it doesn't mean at all that they will "get" what your parenting/family is like. 

Legit -a new friend of mine messaged me last night that if she had tried to serve eggs to her sons when they lived at home after 11am they'd have thought she was crazy -you know -eggs are only for breakfast gotta have meat.  I'd just shared with her that my son was in heaven with the dinner I gave him - spiced egg salad with avocado and tomato in pita, fresh fruit and yogurt and because he was recently sick  -his request for hot cocoa with whipped cream was honored. 

So there's some um crazy advice out there including from my friend who was a great mom and prides herself on cooking traditional meals for dinner.  Breakfast for dinner all the way IMO and that's not advice I'd give anyone else- that's the point.

[Tinydance]

OP when you say you want children fast, what time frame are you talking about? 

[Batya33]

4 minutes ago, Tinydance said:

Yes I'm a mother of a 2-year-old boy. I just don't talk about it that much here unless it comes up, like in this thread lol I'm in a civil partnership but I'm not married on paper. I respect your views but I just don't completely agree with them lol I remember you mentioning that you're bisexual so I find it interesting that you really think a nuclear family is the best. I'm pansexual and a lot of my friends are gay, bi or transgender. A lot of my friends are also polyamorous (I'm not). There are different shapes and sizes to a family. Like, single women who used a donor, same gender parents, single fathers, grandparents raising a child, and so on. Ideally of course you'd want two parents who are actually together but it doesn't always end up that way.

Also having children isn't the only happiness in life and some people just don't want children. So people with no children might  be giving certain advice not because they're ignorant but because they truly are happy WITHOUT children.

Also OP did say he's not actually religious or traditional in lifestyle sense. He just said he really wants children.

I think the OP did make one post about religion/traditional values but yes there were so many. Tinydance I remember when you became a mom and how  the heck can he be 2??? As my momma said -she gives really good advice -every 2 year old's mom needs to wear roller-skates to keep up. (Our son walked at 16 months, ran like heck one day later).  

But -truth -I am sure Tinydance you are a lovely person and lovely mom and your son is so lucky -AND - this is where I part company with "only moms can give advice" -I mean I wouldn't come to you necessarily for advice on my 15 year old with his 15 year old attitude unless he was acting like he was 2 which happens. And likewise you might not come to me thinking well it's been 13 years since she dealt with a 2 year old and things have changed with potty training or napping or whatever.  But from all I have read of your posts if I needed advice on how to be my own person in a time where I was experiencing societal pressure - including as a mom - I'd reach out to you whether I remembered about your adorable angel or not (good luck with the threenager  year...... 😉

[camouflage]

4 minutes ago, Tinydance said:

OP when you say you want children fast, what time frame are you talking about? 

Within 2 or 3 years starting to try it. (also depending on age, for a 30-year-old woman I really hope within 2 years).

[Batya33]

1 minute ago, camouflage said:

Within 2 or 3 years starting to try it. (also depending on age, for a 30-year-old woman I really hope within 2 years).

 

 

So that would mean getting married sooner than that or would you be open to trying before marriage if marriage is the plan? We planned our wedding in 6 weeks -married 6 weeks after getting engaged - but we already knew we likely didn't want a big wedding reception.  

[Tinydance]

2 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I think the OP did make one post about religion/traditional values but yes there were so many. Tinydance I remember when you became a mom and how  the heck can he be 2??? As my momma said -she gives really good advice -every 2 year old's mom needs to wear roller-skates to keep up. (Our son walked at 16 months, ran like heck one day later).  

But -truth -I am sure Tinydance you are a lovely person and lovely mom and your son is so lucky -AND - this is where I part company with "only moms can give advice" -I mean I wouldn't come to you necessarily for advice on my 15 year old with his 15 year old attitude unless he was acting like he was 2 which happens. And likewise you might not come to me thinking well it's been 13 years since she dealt with a 2 year old and things have changed with potty training or napping or whatever.  But from all I have read of your posts if I needed advice on how to be my own person in a time where I was experiencing societal pressure - including as a mom - I'd reach out to you whether I remembered about your adorable angel or not (good luck with the threenager  year...... 😉

Yeah time is flying so fast and I'm also 40 in January! Where did 40 years go lol

Well I think people give advice based on their own experiences and beliefs. There are people who don't have children but want children or they're trying to imagine IF they wanted children. So they might say: "If I was you I'd do XYZ." I don't think we can necessarily only give advice if we have very direct experience with something. But of course the direct experience help. Some people who had kids too fast or with the wrong person might say: "Don't do what I did" lol

[camouflage]

2 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

So that would mean getting married sooner than that or would you be open to trying before marriage if marriage is the plan? We planned our wedding in 6 weeks -married 6 weeks after getting engaged - but we already knew we likely didn't want a big wedding reception.  

In my country, many people no longer get married. I would prefer not to marry but instead have a registered partnership or something similar.

[Tinydance]

3 minutes ago, camouflage said:

Within 2 or 3 years starting to try it. (also depending on age, for a 30-year-old woman I really hope within 2 years).

 

 

Um OK, reading all your posts I thought you wanted it to be very fast! Like six months to a year lol I mean sorry to sound blunt but what is the issue? Lol You're trying to date women in their late 20's so no problem there. Waiting 2 - 3 years to start trying is also very normal. I mean, are you stressed that you need some kind of guarantee when you're dating a woman that this will definitely happen? Like, you need them to confirm in two years they'll have kids? Lol

[Tinydance]

2 minutes ago, camouflage said:

In my country, many people no longer get married. I would prefer not to marry but instead have a registered partnership or something similar.

 

Yeah here many people don't marry either because you get all the same legal rights just by living together.

[Batya33]

3 minutes ago, camouflage said:

In my country, many people no longer get married. I would prefer not to marry but instead have a registered partnership or something similar.

 

Sure if your partner prefers that too.  My friend did that.  She was divorced and met her partner through a dating site.  She really preferred not to get married again to anyone. He wanted to so they settled on domestic partnership and their son is my son's age- teenager.

[camouflage]

3 minutes ago, Tinydance said:

Um OK, reading all your posts I thought you wanted it to be very fast! Like six months to a year lol I mean sorry to sound blunt but what is the issue? Lol You're trying to date women in their late 20's so no problem there. Waiting 2 - 3 years to start trying is also very normal. I mean, are you stressed that you need some kind of guarantee when you're dating a woman that this will definitely happen? Like, you need them to confirm in two years they'll have kids? Lol

The fear runs quite deep due to my previous relationship, where I feel like I wasted a few years. My ex kept postponing everything: "I have no idea if I want it in 2025, not in 2026 either, nor in 2027. We'll see, I don't even know if I want kids!"

That can be a stance, but I find it a horrible way of communicating in a relationship, especially during such crucial years of your life, creating so much unnecessary uncertainty. Why would you put each other through that instead of offering all the certainty in the world? I never understood that.

 

[Batya33]

1 minute ago, camouflage said:

The fear runs quite deep due to my previous relationship, where I feel like I wasted a few years. My ex kept postponing everything: "I have no idea if I want it in 2025, not in 2026 either, nor in 2027. We'll see, I don't even know if I want kids!"

That can be a stance, but I find it a horrible way of communicating in a relationship, especially during such crucial years of your life, creating so much unnecessary uncertainty. Why would you put each other through that instead of offering all the certainty in the world? I never understood that.

 

 

Yes.  I like having a plan too.  Had my husband veered from the plan in any real way it would have been a dealbreaker.  Our friend got divorced some years ago as she wanted only one child and they had a lovely daughter.  Then he changed his mind and wanted more.  So now they are divorced he remarried and has another child.  It's really sad! Their daughter is a teenager and my friend remarried a man she met through a dating site who didn't want kids of his own apparently.