Please provide some insight on dealing with troubled daughter

[yogacat]

I would talk to a therapist one on one to try to figure out how to navigate this situation. It's important to prioritize your own emotional well-being and not let your daughter's anger and manipulation control your actions.

You mentioned she is on Adderall and from what I have heard/read, it is basically like prescribed cocaine and it is highly addictive. It can also cause psychosis and mania.

If she isn't in therapy and lashes out and seeks control, it may be because the medicine makes her feel out of control.

I get her being upset with you but to lash out to such extremes is not normal. 

[tattoobunnie]

Good for your daughter.  You still haven't taken any accountability for what you did at Xmas.

You sound just like my MIL, whom my kids have never met. No parent should ever let their kids be around a person who is toxic to the parents themselves.

And btw, don't call her daughter's kids behind her back - that is so beyond cringy.

[Sweet Sue]

Tattoobunnie....evidently you have not been reading my posts or you would know that I did apologize to my daughter and my grandson about Christmas. I told my grandson that I goofed up and I'm sorry and asked for his forgiveness. He told me that he would never forgive me initially, but that I had 30 days to pick a date and make it up to him. I repeatedly told him and my daughter that I was sorry as I was crying my eyes out as I was getting an ass-chewing from my daughter, her screaming profanity and making threats. 

I picked a date and have planned a trip. 

"Good for your daughter" sounds to me like you approve of how she handles disappointment.  Do you go off on your mother as well? Let me be very clear about something. My mother and I didn't always see eye t eye on everything and yes, sometimes she didn't show up for events, holidays or special occasions that were important to our daughter and me- but I NEVER disrespected her, and NEVER made threats or gave ultimatums. That is wrong and not my style. 

[Sweet Sue]

She has every right to be mad, to be disappointed, to be hurt, I get that. She doesn't have the right to bully me, threaten me and cuss me out-all this while her children are present. i find this disturbing and disgraceful. She's 41 years old and needs to show some respect and some manners. 

[Seraphim]

It sounds best if you both just not interact with each other. Period. Your relationship is too toxic and you aren’t going to win over your grandkids. She is their mother and they are going to back her . 
 

Maybe one day when they are adults you can have a relationship with them , but for now end the toxic dance . 

[catfeeder]

3 hours ago, Seraphim said:

It sounds best if you both just not interact with each other. Period. Your relationship is too toxic and you aren’t going to win over your grandkids. She is their mother and they are going to back her . 
 

Maybe one day when they are adults you can have a relationship with them , but for now end the toxic dance . 

I agree. it's one thing to argue, it's another to abuse. She's abusive and sick, and the only way to ever trust that she's not just setting you up for more abuse and worse, to teach her children to abuse you, would be if someday she comes to you after having accepted the professional help she needs.

You can't intervene and change her. It won't happen, and I'm very sorry.

[Sweet Sue]

I made a promise to my grandson to come up and visit and I plan to keep it. 

Sadly, in order to see them, I have to go through their mother. 

There is no easy solution for this problem. It's toxic - so toxic that my sister in law [my exhusband's sister], told me thatshe and her husband stopped visiting 5 years ago because of the level of dysfunction in the home. She went on to add that she has seen alot of scewed up people in her life but that my daughter was 'pure evil'. 

Do you realize how hard it is to hear someone speak like that about your child? 

It's heartwrenching! 

She and I maintain a good relationship in spite of all this...

[kalikat]

Did I read this correctly? From what you said previously, your daughter is divorced (your grandson has days at his dad's house), and your daughter and her kids all now live with Her Father - your ex husband- who used to spank her and yell and berate her? If that is correct, that alone speaks volumes. As a child she learned to be submissive to him. She learned that yelling and berating equaled empowerment. Which is one of the reasons she now uses it against you. If she does live with dad now, whose to say that he doesn't still do the same thing with his grand kids? And - Couldn't it possibly be that he did not pass on the text about your wedding on purpose? Knowing that she would lash out at you and most likely end up poisoning your grand kids against you as well? She seems to have learned a lot from her dad - not in a good way.

I have to agree that showing up for Christmas will not change a thing. It will just give her a chance to attack you in person in FRONT of you grands. She feels she has to dominate and humiliate you. By showing up you give her permission to do that.

I understand that you want a relationship with your grand kids, but bowing down to your daughter is not the way to do it. He clearly has already been poisoned by mom (or your ex).

You need to hold your ground with her. Send her a letter via regular mail. Tell her you love her, but that you don't deserve this treatment from her. If she can't promise to be a decent human towards you, then you can't show up at Christmas. Tell her you also were hurt about the wedding, but you have tried to be the bigger person and let it go. She should do the same. what has past, has past.

If at all possible, contact your ex son in law - if nothing else but to get his address so that you can write to you grandson and assure that he will actually get his mail.

I'm afraid that mom has already influenced him enough for him to have preconceived notions of you. sending him cards or letters to his dad's house takes your daughter out of the equation. Maybe that will help...

[Batya33]

12 hours ago, Sweet Sue said:

I made a promise to my grandson to come up and visit and I plan to keep it. 

Sadly, in order to see them, I have to go through their mother. 

There is no easy solution for this problem. It's toxic - so toxic that my sister in law [my exhusband's sister], told me thatshe and her husband stopped visiting 5 years ago because of the level of dysfunction in the home. She went on to add that she has seen alot of scewed up people in her life but that my daughter was 'pure evil'. 

Do you realize how hard it is to hear someone speak like that about your child? 

It's heartwrenching! 

She and I maintain a good relationship in spite of all this...

I do not think it is fair to your grandson to see him unless his mom is on board and will be welcoming of you. He is a minor -yes? Tell your grandson you realized you need to have his mom be on board with the visit and you promise to come see him if that is the situation.  It's awful for a child to feel like he is in the middle. 

 

[Seraphim]

28 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I do not think it is fair to your grandson to see him unless his mom is on board and will be welcoming of you. He is a minor -yes? Tell your grandson you realized you need to have his mom be on board with the visit and you promise to come see him if that is the situation.  It's awful for a child to feel like he is in the middle. 

 

I agree never put the kids in the middle so they are in the crosshairs of their mother . 

[catfeeder]

15 hours ago, Sweet Sue said:

I made a promise to my grandson to come up and visit and I plan to keep it. 

Can you visit him through your ex son-in-law, instead?

[Sweet Sue]

Seraphim, I agree. I don't think children should be brought into adult affairs, and I don't approve of her getting them to 'take sides', either. 

Catfeeder, I don't have a relationship with my ex-son in law. However, my ex son in-law purchased a phone for my grandson several years ago, but I've been told I have been blocked. 

[rainbowsandroses]

Hi @Sweet Suechiming in late and reading all your posts describing your daughter's what I would consider abusive behavior towards you which dates back to her childhood does it not?   

Behavioral problems, throwing fits, temper tantrums, discipline issues etc, this sounds like a mental/behavioral disorder which was never treated when it should have been as a child and has now carried over to adulthood. 

As such I am worried about your grandson!

Living with and being raised by such an out-of-control, volatile, abusive, illogical person, aren't you?

My advice is forget about trying to understand her motivation or controling it, you never will.   Clearly imo she is mentally sick and needs professional help. 

I would be more concerned about how this is negatively impacting your grandson, not only with regard to the personal issues between you and your daughter but him living with and being raised by her at all!

Are you in a position to take him in? 

If so, get a lawyer and file for custody or some sort of court-ordered visitation agreement.

Your daughter is unstable and he needs to be away from her toxic influence and unhealthy environment ASAP.   

You have plenty of evidence. 

In any event, even if you choose to not explore that avenue which is drastic I admit, you really need to get stronger here, like way stronger and take your power back, for yourself and perhaps more importantly for your grandson. 

Apologies if this sounds harsh, but you are her mother and her son's grandmother.  I would suggest you start acting like it, this has gone on way too long, YOU have allowed it to go on way too long.

 I'm sorry. 

JMO good luck. 

 

[catfeeder]

1 hour ago, Sweet Sue said:

Catfeeder, I don't have a relationship with my ex-son in law. However, my ex son in-law purchased a phone for my grandson several years ago, but I've been told I have been blocked. 

Not having a relationship doesn't mean you can't form one. Given that he's daughter's EX, he might have an appreciation for what you are going through, and he might have a concern about his son being deprived of a relationship with you.

I would find any potential avenue of meeting with your grandson, even if he's resistant--because he will remember the efforts you made outside the context of what his mother has been conditioning him to believe.

Even if you can send him postal mail at his father's address, the likelihood that the boy will understand that you are making efforts will eventually lead to a better impression than watching you be abused by your daughter and conforming to that narrative.

I would stay away from the daughter at all costs.

[Sweet Sue]

rainbowsandroses, I don't know what you mean in your last paragraph. Over the years, I have had to keep my visits far and few between and limiting the time I spend in her home. For the most part, our visits go well- meaning, she rarely starts a fight with me, but she will fight with her dad and argue with her son. 

Let me add, I have been sick with advance Lyme disease for the last 18 years. I had to take early retirement. This debilitating disease has derailed my life and I live with chronic pain and fatigue. I wouldn't wish this on anyone. I have missed important event and occasions because of this and she fails to understand how difficult this has been on me and naturally reminds me that one day I will have to answer to her children for my absences. It's sad, so very sad.

Please clarify what you mean. 

If she didn't have children, I would most definitely stay away, but I want to be involved in their life. They are just kids and didn't ask for this. I think they need a good role model because even the people that hang out with my daughter at her home- she sometimes takes in boarders, I find to be questionable characters. 

We haven't spoken on the phone since I told my grandson I would see him Christmas, but just before hanging up, I asked my grandson to put his mother on the telephone. I gave her a stern warning and told her that I don't know what's going on there but I hope she can get her act together when we get there for the holidays because we want to have a great time together and have an enjoyable visit, but if she starts to pick a fight with me, then we are leaving. 

Like you, I have been concerned with the environment my grandson is being raised in. To the best of my knowledge, neither one of them have good role models. Her friends and her father's friends and poker buddies are the people they see on a regular basis. My daughter almost lost custody of her son when he was just 4 years old, but instead she went to anger management. She told me a few years ago that DHS has been called on her but they didn't find evidence that warranted them taking away her children. One time, when my grandson was in the school's guidance counselor's office, he was asked to draw a picture of his thoughts. He drew a graphic diagram of a boy tied to a chair with rope with knives stuck inside of him. This raised the concerns of the counselor that she called an emergency meeting with my daughter and the school principal- and my grandson. When asked to explain the meaning behind the drawing, he explained that the picture depicted how he felt about life, NOT what he was going to do to somebody- according to my daughter. I can't recall, but I think he was suspended from school for a few days. 

Catfeeder- I send packages and letters enclosed to my grandchildren all year long. Occasionally I will receive a thank you via text message. 

[Batya33]

8 hours ago, Sweet Sue said:

Like you, I have been concerned with the environment my grandson is being raised in. To the best of my knowledge, neither one of them have good role models. Her friends and her father's friends and poker buddies are the people they see on a regular basis. My daughter almost lost custody of her son when he was just 4 years old, but instead she went to anger management. She told me a few years ago that DHS has been called on her but they didn't find evidence that warranted them taking away her children.

So have you reported your concerns to your grandson's school? For example? I get totally you might not want your grandson removed from the home -I get that -but what have you done with these serious concerns of yours. 

[Seraphim]

It would be hard to report your daughter . Kids need saving . I wish someone had reported my dad . 

[rainbowsandroses]

13 hours ago, Sweet Sue said:

My daughter almost lost custody of her son when he was just 4 years old, but instead she went to anger management. She told me a few years ago that DHS has been called on her but they didn't find evidence that warranted them taking away her children. One time, when my grandson was in the school's guidance counselor's office, he was asked to draw a picture of his thoughts. He drew a graphic diagram of a boy tied to a chair with rope with knives stuck inside of him. This raised the concerns of the counselor that she called an emergency meeting with my daughter and the school principal- and my grandson. When asked to explain the meaning behind the drawing he explained that the picture depicted how he felt about life.

^^This is extremely troubling and disturbing.  

No child would draw a picture like that imo unless either they were being abused (emotionally or physically) themselves or they witnessed abuse in the home. 

You posted your daughter was abused by your ex-husband, HER father while growing up.  Spankings, hitting and verbal abuse.

Please educate yourself about this, familial abuse trickles down from one generation to the other - your daughter's father abused her, your daughter is now  possibly abusing her son (your grandson) and IS abusing you in various ways, and if something isn't done, there is a strong likelihood your grandson will also become an abuser.  

There are always exceptions for example my late mom abused me but I myself am not an abuser.  However, in my romantic relationships I tend to be detached, unable to fully bond, I shut down and distance and ultimately run away.  A sort of self-abuse in a way. 

I am in therapy to help me work through this and finally after years found a competent therapist; my point is abuse can manifest in many different ways. 

I created a thread about this in the abuse section, I invite you to read it.

I am very sorry about your own health struggles.  But there are still things you can do to protect your grandson.

Like I said, speak with a family law attorney about what rights you have as a grandmother, what's been happening within the family unit past and present, and taking the proper steps to do what's best for your  grandson.   Court intervention may be needed. 

HE is the victim in this toxic mess.

I'm sorry Sweet Sue, good luck and feel better. 

 

 

 

[ShySoul]

Hi Sue. Can I say I'm sorry you've had to endure so much in your life? Between the disease and your daughter I am sure things haven't been easy on you. I think you are handling things as well as could be expected of anyone. I can also understand your hurt and fustration, and even the need to vent a bit of anger now and then. 

I don't think your daughter is evil, just very messed up. But she is also an adult who is responsible for her own actions. Don't let her issues drag you down into the dirt and abyss with her.

The victim here is the child. His acting up is a cry for help to. He does need someone there for him, a positive influence. Unfortunately, you can't help him if you are unable to help yourself first. Do what you can for him, but balance if with your own well being.

When I was a child I supposedly said something (have no memory I actually said it and certainly didn't mean it if I did) that was considered troubling and my teacher had to speak to my mother about it. It wasn't a sign of abuse. It was a sign of lonliness and pain from a messed up life - in family and personally. It was calling for help, for someone to listen. I felt suffocated in life. So I can relate to his drawing, even if our situations were very different.

I hope you can all find a way to be okay in this messed up sitution.

[Sweet Sue]

I do want to have a relationship with my daughter and my grandchildren, but I just don't know how best to go about it. 

Since my last conversation with my grandson a few weeks ago when I told him I would be there for Christmas (which I had already planned to go), I haven't heard a peep out of anyone. However, I did miss a call from my grandson, but he left no message. I returned the call within 15 minutes, but have not heard back from him. I left him a message to call me back.

When I at her home, our visits usually go well. I can tell she's happy for me to be there and she genuinely acts likes she cares. The issue I have is how she treats her kids. I don't like the way she speaks to them when they have done something wrong. I do my best to bite my tongue. 

I have read all of your replies and appreciate your comments. I think if my daughter did not have children, this would be easy, however, since I have grandchildren I want to visit and be involved in their lives as much as possible. My daughter complains that I don't visit them enough, but when I point out to her that she can come see me, her excuse is that she has a major panic attack if she drives more than 1 1/2 hours. This is a result of a minor car accident she had in her neighborhood one night when out looking for the dog that got out of the house. She explained that the accident brought about severe panic attacks when driving and cannot drive anywhere that is more than 1 1/2- unless someone else does the driving. 

Well, she's in luck. If we can sell our homes, we will be moving closer to her - hopefully just 90 miles south of her town.

Let me add, I don't know If I brought this up before, but during our last conversation my grandson wanted to know why I did not visit them more often. I stated that I had my reasons, but didn't want to discuss them with him. His mother was listening in on the conversation and said, "Go ahead mom, tell him why you stay away." Once again I told my grandson that I didn't feel comfortable talking about the issues I have with his mother, but he insisted- so I told him. Then I asked him a question. I asked him what he would do if he had friends who treated him that way and he stated that his friends treat him that way, but do so in a joking manner. I told him that the way I am treated by his mother is no joking manner. 

What I explained to my grandson was that over the years his mother has verbally assaulted me, wished me dead, has slapped, kicked and punched me, makes threats, guilt trips me when I miss an important event, occasion or holiday, and gives me ultimatums. She loses all self control and manipulates conversations to a point she talks over me when I am trying to have a civil conversation with her. I have become exhausted and emotionally drained. 

I don't know if this was the right thing to do- but I did so because she insisted. 

I don't think she will ever seek out professional help because in her mind, she doesn't have a problem. 

I do love her, she is my daughter. She is very smart and has a good heart. She will give you the shirt off her back if you need it and invite you to her home if you are alone during the holidays. She loves animals and is good to them. She is a good hostess and makes people feel welcome in her home. She loves to entertain and is rather good at it. 

I'd like to see her get a job- she's 41 and graduated from college with honors in 2019 and has yet to be gainfully employed. She is receiving government assistance here in the USA. She is totally dependent on her father for her other needs. My concern is what is going to happen to her and her children when he passes away. He is in very poor health and according to her, he doesn't want her to become self supporting because out of fear that she will put him in a nursing home. He has hidden all important documents such as living will, Last Will, and Power of Attorney. She has turned the place upside down trying to locate them, but has had no success. 

What a mess! 

[ShySoul]

Sue, I don't what would be considered right regarding the call with your grandson, but I think you handled it well. He asked you, you weren't trying to create a problem. You tried to not talk, but she insisted. You told the truth and you got him to think about how it would make him feel if it happened to him. All of that is fair. 

It is a mess. You're doing everything you can. Eventually she will have to face the consequences of her actions, and of her father's. That's on them. All you can do is to try to be there for the grandson when you are able, try to be civil, and take care of yourself. Anything else is out of your hands and not something you should let get to you.

Keep pushing on. May things get better one day.

[Jaunty]

You keep digging a deeper and deeper hole for yourself.

Quote

 

What I explained to my grandson was that over the years his mother has verbally assaulted me, wished me dead, has slapped, kicked and punched me, makes threats, guilt trips me when I miss an important event, occasion or holiday, and gives me ultimatums. She loses all self control and manipulates conversations to a point she talks over me when I am trying to have a civil conversation with her. I have become exhausted and emotionally drained. 

I don't know if this was the right thing to do- but I did so because she insisted. 

 

I really can't believe that you told your grandson all of those awful things about his mother (your daughter).  

There is so much passive-aggression in the way you deal with your daughter.   She "insisted" so you offloaded all of this nastiness on your grandson?  Why would you do that?  I mean - who cares if she "insisted."  

That has "I'lll show her a thing or two" written all over it.

What good could possibly come of this, that would help you reach your stated goal of spending more time with the grandkids?

What is that young man supposed to do with this?  

It pretty much looks like YOU have sealed the fate of the upcoming holidays, where time with your daughter and her children is concerned.  

I understand that your daughter is an extremely difficult person and the two of you do not get along.

There are ways that you could, if it were a priority of yours,  have a nurturing relationship with your grandkids and avoid participating in the drama that your daughter brings.

But you seem very entrenched in your own role in that.

   

 

[tattoobunnie]

Just now, Jaunty said:

I really can't believe that you told your grandson all of those awful things about his mother (your daughter).  

Jaunty, she ignores any poster that asks about her culpability in all of this.

My MIL is just like her; always a victim.  Always her version of the truth.  Children described as the black sleep of the family are really children trying to break away from their toxic family, or stand up for themselves.  No one wants to be estranged from their parents, but when it's a constant lack of empathy, and refusing to respect boundaries, which the OP did by trying to go behind her daughter's back to to speak to her child, it's an unhealthy situation for the daughter to be stuck in.

[Seraphim]

24 minutes ago, Jaunty said:

You keep digging a deeper and deeper hole for yourself.

I really can't believe that you told your grandson all of those awful things about his mother (your daughter).  

There is so much passive-aggression in the way you deal with your daughter.   She "insisted" so you offloaded all of this nastiness on your grandson?  Why would you do that?  I mean - who cares if she "insisted."  

That has "I'lll show her a thing or two" written all over it.

What good could possibly come of this, that would help you reach your stated goal of spending more time with the grandkids?

What is that young man supposed to do with this?  

It pretty much looks like YOU have sealed the fate of the upcoming holidays, where time with your daughter and her children is concerned.  

I understand that your daughter is an extremely difficult person and the two of you do not get along.

There are ways that you could, if it were a priority of yours,  have a nurturing relationship with your grandkids and avoid participating in the drama that your daughter brings.

But you seem very entrenched in your own role in that.

   

 

I agree no child wants to hear these things about a parent because well, they are part their parent . It tells the child what is thought of them as part their parent . 

[rainbowsandroses]

15 hours ago, Sweet Sue said:

What I explained to my grandson was that over the years his mother has verbally assaulted me, wished me dead, has slapped, kicked and punched me...

^^This is abuse, mentally, emotionally, verbally and physically.  

I am curious to understand your mindset in believing hearing this would in any way be beneficial to your precious grandson? 

Because your abusive daughter insisted?  So what?  

As her mother and his grandmother, you should have known better and exercised better judgment imo.  Appropriate boundaries. 

It's not my intention to guilt trip you but again I really am curious what you were thinking at the time.   It's quite shocking imo to say the least. 

I shudder to think what else your grandson is being exposed to living with her.  And how this is and will ultimately impact him as an adult. 

I posted earlier how abuse trickles down from generation to generation.  Please do some research about this it's quite concerning Sweet Sue.

56 minutes ago, Seraphim said:

I agree no child wants to hear these things about a parent because well, they are part their parent . It tells the child what is thought of them as part their parent . 

Not only this^ but it's actually detrimental to his mental and emotional health and well being to be hearing things like this said about his own mother by his grandmother no less.