Cycle of Abuse...

[rainbowsandroses]

Guys I recently watched Ryan Murphy's  "Monsters: The Lyle and Erik Menendez Story" on Netflix, which is causing quite a stir on SM, my computer nearly crashed yesterday because of it.... but anyway

I'm not here to talk about that as I have mixed feelings about Ryan Murphy's characterization BUT it did prompt me to read and watch legit documentaries and one really good and honest one (imo) was "The Menendez Murders: Erik Tells All."

This was a five part series that went into extremely graphic and quite credible detail told by the brothers, doctors, relatives, teachers, friends etc about the physical and sexual abuse the brothers suffered from both their father Jose AND their mother Kitty since the age of 6! 

Really REALLY horrible stuff, torture really. 

Personally I don't think this justified brutally murdering their parents in the way they did, making it appear like a mob hit and the cover up afterwards BUT I do believe the abuse happened which some people are questioning.

Which is why I am posting this.  The docuseries devoted an entire episode to the cycle of abuse that happens in families going back generations! 

Jose was severely abused by HIS dad.  Jose's dad by HIS dad.   Kitty and her entire family suffered abuse in her/their family, Jose abused Lyle, in turn Lyle abused Erik, Jose began abusing Erik, when does it stop?

It's becomes such an ugly shameful secret that no one wants to talk about it, or seek therapy for it!

So the cycle just continues until tragedy occurs which is actually pretty rare, so it just continues trickling down from generation to generation.  Sigh. 

In fact Jose threatened Erik telling him if he ever told Lyle (by then Jose stopped abusing Lyle) or anyone for that matter, he'd kill him!   And Erik being a young sensitive impressionable child then young adult believed him!

As some of you know my mom abused me growing up (not sexually) but physically and mentally/emotionally and we never discussed it but now I'm thinking SHE was most likely abused herself growing up!

And the cycle continued.

She's gone now but still this really saddens me and also that I was never brave enough to confront her once I became an adult and talk with her about it.

Anyway I think this is an important topic and of course it's all SM is talking about after the Netflix series aired which again I have no comment about.

If you want a more accurate unbiased portrayal, there are many other documentaries and podcasts to watch and listen to. 

Would love to hear your thoughts, thanks! 

 

 

 

[Seraphim]

I am glad to be the last person to be abused in my family and didn’t carry it on.   
 

It ends when someone is brave enough to stand up and end it . 

[ShySoul]

Hurt people, hurt people.

When you are a child you look to your parents and your family for everything. You can't take care of yourself, so you depend on them. There interests and personalities rub off on you as they are are the one you look up to and emulate . Generally it's good or at least neutral. But there can be dark side to that as well. And it can manifest without you even realizing it. 

Dealing with an alcoholic father, I heard the same thing as well. Children of alcoholics are four times as likely to become alcoholics themselves. And I'm sure that applies to all kinds of areas. My best friend still carries the scars of emotional abuse from her mother. So it makes sense that those who are abused choose to abuse others. It's all they know, what they consider normal. History sadly repeats.

My sister and I grew up separately (different mothers). She had her own issues with the parents she grew up with. When I was having issues with my father she advised me to choose to be the inverse of all the darkness I saw. She said to pick a better path and do things differently, do it better. I try to do that, hence why I've never drank alcohol and don't plan to.

Ending the cycle is difficult.  It takes self awareness, strength, and a desire to fight against our worse instincts. But it's possible. And I hope more and more people can find it in them to stop the cycle.

@Seraphim , @rainbowsandroses Glad you were strong enough to break the cycle. I think people who experience such trauma can turn out to be the best people because it helps them to be more aware of the effect a person's actions can have on others. Based on how much I respect both of you, think there might be something to that theory.

 

[Kwothe28]

Not everybody who enters cycle of abuse become an abusers themselves. People response to abuse is different. Some may pull into themselves, some may even accept that kind of behavior, but response differs from people to people. In any case its traumatic experience, but response differs. So cycle may stop with the abuser. Even though consequences of abuse stay. 

My Grandpa was an alcoholic. He stopped at his late age because of health. But when he drank, he was a very violent one. I was very young but my Grandma and my mom suffered from that a lot. It was a different time back then. Now they would probably leave(or just threw him out since it was Grandmas home) but back then, it was looked at differently at that kind of stuff. But "luckily" he settled down later in life and they lived semi-peacefully. 

[tattoobunnie]

My mom tells me it takes 3 generations to break the cycle of criminality, and or abuse.

Couldn't tell you where she got her data from, but I do know my grandma was physically abusive daily with my mom, and she never had a childhood. My mom would hit me, sometimes for just acting my age, or things she wanted to blame me for, but recognized by the time I was 12, I was too old for it.  Recently she ripped a pen out of my head when she was flipping out, and with over two decades of teaching myself to "use my words" even with the gut reaction at times with my kids, I realize I don't want to be her.  I told her that was unacceptable.

I really hated her for close to 60% of my life, but in my 30's, I could see she changed, and so did I.

[Kwothe28]

I watched "It Ends With Us", so it made me think about the topic. 

Anyway, its almost typical romance drama movie and the premise of that movie is, spoiler alert for those who want to watch it and still didnt, that a woman meets a surgeon who usually just has ONS(I know, red flag by itself lol), but falls in love into her. They end up being married. But at the same time her first love appears in town. Anyway, first time husband hurt her, he did it by accident. Wanted to take out food from oven but burned his hand and hit her when he took hand out of oven. But the first love saw her bruise(they dinned at his restaurant, yeah, yeah, contrived) and his hand and assumed, because her father was also abusive to her mother and her, that boyfriend(that was before they marry) hits her. And surgeon finds about ex love. But she ends up marrying surgeon and he ends up pushing her down the stairs and even trying to rape her. She does leave him but they end up having a baby together since she is pregnant. And movie ends with her asking for a divorce when the baby was born and saying to a baby girl she birthed: "It ends with us". Well, movie doesnt really ends there since it showed she continued her life and even reconnected with first love later. Yeah, yeah, typical romance drama.

But it did made me realize that it maybe doesnt end with them. Whole point of the movie is that after her dad(who dies at the movie start) being abusive with her mom and her, and her ex husband doing the same, her and her little girl are safe now and cycle wont continue. But she really didnt do anything about the ex husband. They do get the divorce and movie makes the point about him wanting change(something every abuser tells you) but she assumingly still stays in touch with ex husband(they are shown to have very good relations when baby was born despite everything) and he assumingly sees the kid. So how did it end? He was never shown that he really changed. He says that he will go to therapy but movie never shows that, so is he? What stops him to do that to some next woman? To his kid who he also claims to love as much as his ex wife who he abused? I found the movie very bad at conveying the message it wants to send to people. There is a book so its possible lots of it is lost to interpretation. And apparently there is a sequel of the book so its maybe be done in the sequel movie. But just found the sole movie very bad at the message it wants to tell to people. 

[Batya33]

I read the book and  the sequel I believe -I liked but did not love the books and I had similar issues! Was tempted to see the movie but have not yet.

[ShySoul]

6 hours ago, Kwothe28 said:

So how did it end? He was never shown that he really changed. He says that he will go to therapy but movie never shows that, so is he? What stops him to do that to some next woman? To his kid who he also claims to love as much as his ex wife who he abused? I found the movie very bad at conveying the message it wants to send to people.

I'm actually going to agree with you. (I know, feels odd doesn't it 😉)

I've found this to be true for a lot of movies I've seen, that the ending does a very superficial job of resolving the plot. I get that part of it is condensing very complicated situations into two hours. Things like this don't really have an end. It's something a person struggles with their whole life. But you can't really show that and want to leave with some kind of a hopeful ending. So things get glossed over or left for viewers to assume. 

I get more annoyed with endings that are intentionally left vague or unclear. Sometimes it feels like they are trying to be deep or give more meaning by leaving more questions unresolved. But it really just feels like a waste of time. If there's no resolution, if no one learned anything or is shown making the effort, then what are we supposed to take from it all? Show me how the abuser is working to change. Have them acknowledge it won't be easy, but is actually putting in the effort. Isn't the adage to show, not tell?

[rainbowsandroses]

13 hours ago, Kwothe28 said:

I watched "It Ends With Us", so it made me think about the topic. 

Anyway, its almost typical romance drama movie and the premise of that movie is, spoiler alert for those who want to watch it and still didnt, that a woman meets a surgeon who usually just has ONS(I know, red flag by itself lol), but falls in love into her. They end up being married. But at the same time her first love appears in town. Anyway, first time husband hurt her, he did it by accident. Wanted to take out food from oven but burned his hand and hit her when he took hand out of oven. But the first love saw her bruise(they dinned at his restaurant, yeah, yeah, contrived) and his hand and assumed, because her father was also abusive to her mother and her, that boyfriend(that was before they marry) hits her. And surgeon finds about ex love. But she ends up marrying surgeon and he ends up pushing her down the stairs and even trying to rape her. She does leave him but they end up having a baby together since she is pregnant. And movie ends with her asking for a divorce when the baby was born and saying to a baby girl she birthed: "It ends with us". Well, movie doesnt really ends there since it showed she continued her life and even reconnected with first love later. Yeah, yeah, typical romance drama.

But it did made me realize that it maybe doesnt end with them. Whole point of the movie is that after her dad(who dies at the movie start) being abusive with her mom and her, and her ex husband doing the same, her and her little girl are safe now and cycle wont continue. But she really didnt do anything about the ex husband. They do get the divorce and movie makes the point about him wanting change(something every abuser tells you) but she assumingly still stays in touch with ex husband(they are shown to have very good relations when baby was born despite everything) and he assumingly sees the kid. So how did it end? He was never shown that he really changed. He says that he will go to therapy but movie never shows that, so is he? What stops him to do that to some next woman? To his kid who he also claims to love as much as his ex wife who he abused? I found the movie very bad at conveying the message it wants to send to people. There is a book so its possible lots of it is lost to interpretation. And apparently there is a sequel of the book so its maybe be done in the sequel movie. But just found the sole movie very bad at the message it wants to tell to people. 

@Kwothe28  is the film worth seeing?  Either in the theater or renting? 

On Amazon with a "prime" subscription it's almost $20.00 ($19.99), that's pretty pricey!  Typically movies rent for $3.99.

Anyway, it got good reviews but not sure if it's worth the money even with the Amazon Prime subscription.

I read it will be on Netflex sometime next year.

The premise and subject matter does sound interesting though, right up my alley! Especially since I'm currently exploring the cycle of family abuse.

I don't have kids but definitely do not envision myself being anything like my mom was with me!  

What's interesting is that she treated my brothers like they were kings!

My dad was the parent who  disciplined them. However I never witnessed any abuse, just harsh discipline when warranted..

 

 

[Kwothe28]

13 hours ago, ShySoul said:

But you can't really show that and want to leave with some kind of a hopeful ending. So things get glossed over or left for viewers to assume. 

I hate Hollywood messages in general. They are often heavy handed and forceful, and in most cases very "cartoony". For example, I was surprised for this one that the abuser isnt a "full villain". He has a tragic backstory and shown in lots of cases being good to protagonist. They are both "messy" so kinda makes sense they ended up with each other. But, I have a problem with how that final message is portrayed. If the title of the movie is the message, dont know why they chose to portray it in this way because it doesnt make sense. Maybe sequel deals with that, but from what Ive read, he hasnt changed and creates troubles in sequel book too(maybe Batya will confirm since she read it) so still dont know how does it ends with them. Its a romance novel so we are maybe suppose to be more focused on romance between her and her first love, but still its something that bothered me since its literally movie message and they advertised it heavily on it.

6 hours ago, rainbowsandroses said:

@Kwothe28  is the film worth seeing?  Either in the theater or renting? 

 

Eh, so so, its a typical romance drama. Wait for Netflix release if you dont have Amazon. 

6 hours ago, rainbowsandroses said:

What's interesting is that she treated my brothers like they were kings!

 

From what Ive read, its not out of the ordinary when it comes to abusive mothers. They see sons as somebody who will support them in old age. While they see their daughters as somebody to whom they can express their frustrations through abuse. Either verbal or physical. 

[yogacat]

On 9/22/2024 at 7:55 PM, rainbowsandroses said:

Guys I recently watched Ryan Murphy's  "Monsters: The Lyle and Erik Menendez Story" on Netflix, which is causing quite a stir on SM, my computer nearly crashed yesterday because of it.... but anyway

I'm not here to talk about that as I have mixed feelings about Ryan Murphy's characterization BUT it did prompt me to read and watch legit documentaries and one really good and honest one (imo) was "The Menendez Murders: Erik Tells All."

This was a five part series that went into extremely graphic and quite credible detail told by the brothers, doctors, relatives, teachers, friends etc about the physical and sexual abuse the brothers suffered from both their father Jose AND their mother Kitty since the age of 6! 

Really REALLY horrible stuff, torture really. 

Personally I don't think this justified brutally murdering their parents in the way they did, making it appear like a mob hit and the cover up afterwards BUT I do believe the abuse happened which some people are questioning.

I have mixed feelings with this case.

One never wants to deny outright abuse claims but right after they murdered their parents they were already cashing in on their dads wealth (they spent $1 million in the span of half a year) and so many details were changed or added by the brothers constantly between 89-90. It's not impossible but I do believe some of it was exaggerated for a mistrial by the defense attorneys. That and the outright lack of physical evidence.

Erik had so much guilt and suicidal thoughts for murdering his parents that he went to a therapist to confess. Lyle, feeling that Erik had told the therapist all-and in the tapes Erik didn't mention anything about them being abused-threatened the psychiatrist's life, which allowed them to break the confidentiality agreement, hence why it was admissible in court. Erik had been in years of therapy but never spoke about the abuse from his father.

I think Lyle, who had wanted to be an extremely gifted businessman but did poor at school at the time (suspended for plagiarism) saw an opportunity and manipulated Erik.

[rainbowsandroses]

@yogacat, gotta admit at first I had the same feeling as you!

That they concocted the sexual abuse (instigated by Lyle) after the murders (and after they got caught) as a plausible defense. 

But then I got to thinking, with sexual abuse, any sort of abuse really, there is so much denial and shame one feels, that it's not uncommon to block it, bury it and/or not want to admit to anyone. 

Speaking personally, I was not sexually abused but I was certainly physically abused (by my mom NOT my dad), beginning at around 12-13, and I never told anyone either!    

Not my dad nor any of my five brothers, teachers, friends, etc.  In fact I did the opposite!  I raved about what a perfect family I had, literally ALL my friends loved my mom! 

Of course my mom played the role and was perfect around them.  I recall a few of my friends saying "I wish MY mom was as beautiful and as nice as yours!"  

It was all a facade I created because I felt too ashamed and I think also a big part of it was I was in denial because admitting it to myself let alone anyone else was just too painful.

So IF it's true, I do kinda understand why Erik never said a word until the murders forced him to begin getting honest with himself (and others) about it. 

Also, in the documentary I referenced - The Menendez Brothers: Erik Tells All - the psychiatrists interviewed (NOT the creep, Dr. Oziel, they were seeing after the murders) explained that when abuse begins at such a young age (6 years old in Erik's case), the abused child believes it's normal; Erik even explained that his dad told him it's what fathers do to "toughen you up" as sick as that sounds. 

And he believed it to be true, I mean it was his DAD saying this, so of course he believed it, he had nothing to compare it to, it was all he'd ever known.  

All the relatives and family friends interviewed corroborated that Jose (the dad) was physically abusive to both boys, they just weren't aware of the sexual abuse. 

But again, none of that justifies murdering both parents, and in such a brutal way!  Making it appear like a mob hit, all the spending they did after the murders, etc etc; I mean it really made them both appear like a couple of psychopaths!  

I've been following this case and it appears new evidence has surfaced corroborating the sexual abuse and a hearing is scheduled to determine whether they should be granted a new trial or released for time served (34 years).

It will be interesting to see what happens.

Anyway just my take on it.  

 

[Batya33]

13 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Speaking personally, I was not sexually abused but I was certainly physically abused (by my mom NOT my dad), beginning at around 12-13, and I never told anyone either!    

Just curious -do you think your dad  knew?

[rainbowsandroses]

19 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Just curious -do you think your dad  knew?

No he never knew Bat.  I don't think he ever even suspected it. 

My mom was a completely different person when he was around, I always loved when he was home because my mom always acted very caring and loving.

Meanwhile, when he was at work or not at home, she was locking me in closets or our beach locker, she once in a complete rage seriously choked me (can't remember what triggered it), she once tied me to a tree at our beach club to keep an eye on me, she came at me with scissors, I thought she was going to stab me but she chopped my long hair off instead, just to name a few things that I recall. 

It's difficult to explain now why I never told my dad or anyone; knowing what I do now about abuse, IF I had told my teachers, they would have reported it to social services and I most likely would have been removed from my family home. 

You gotta understand that where I'm from (upper middle class) this was literally unheard of!  

We were also members of a prominent Catholic Church, my mom prayed to the Virgin Mary every single day; we attended Church services every Sunday as a family. 

So it was all very hush hush, no one talked about it EVER.

[yogacat]

3 hours ago, rainbowsandroses said:

gotta admit at first I had the same feeling as you!

That they concocted the sexual abuse (instigated by Lyle) after the murders (and after they got caught) as a plausible defense. 

But then I got to thinking, with sexual abuse, any sort of abuse really, there is so much denial and shame one feels, that it's not uncommon to block it, bury it and/or not want to admit to anyone. 

Speaking personally, I was not sexually abused but I was certainly physically abused (by my mom NOT my dad), beginning at around 12-13, and I never told anyone either!    

Not my dad nor any of my five brothers, teachers, friends, etc.  In fact I did the opposite!  I raved about what a perfect family I had, literally ALL my friends loved my mom! 

Of course my mom played the role and was perfect around them.  I recall a few of my friends saying "I wish MY mom was as beautiful and as nice as yours!"  

It was all a facade I created because I felt too ashamed and I think also a big part of it was I was in denial because admitting it to myself let alone anyone else was just too painful.

So IF it's true, I do kinda understand why Erik never said a word until the murders forced him to begin getting honest with himself (and others) about it. 

Also, in the documentary I referenced - The Menendez Brothers: Erik Tells All - the psychiatrists interviewed (NOT the creep, Dr. Oziel, they were seeing after the murders) explained that when abuse begins at such a young age (6 years old in Erik's case), the abused child believes it's normal; Erik even explained that his dad told him it's what fathers do to "toughen you up" as sick as that sounds. 

And he believed it to be true, I mean it was his DAD saying this, so of course he believed it, he had nothing to compare it to, it was all he'd ever known.  

All the relatives and family friends interviewed corroborated that Jose (the dad) was physically abusive to both boys, they just weren't aware of the sexual abuse. 

But again, none of that justifies murdering both parents, and in such a brutal way!  Making it appear like a mob hit, all the spending they did after the murders, etc etc; I mean it really made them both appear like a couple of psychopaths!  

I've been following this case and it appears new evidence has surfaced corroborating the sexual abuse and a hearing is scheduled to determine whether they should be granted a new trial or released for time served (34 years).

It will be interesting to see what happens.

Anyway just my take on it.  

I was abused too.

I did tell though....

Obviously each person will respond differently. Was their Dad a bully? Absolutely.

But I don't feel they feared for their lives. I feel they, Lyle mostly, had a lot of resentment towards his Dad. 

They claimed they killed their parents because they feared for their lives. But, that scene was so gruesome and they were horrifically brutal.

The whole "I feared for my life," doesn't work for me at all.

Revenge isn't something that's planned overnight. This was a very long, premeditated act. And greed is a powerful motivation.

The brothers drove to San Diego, several hours from Beverly Hills, to purchase the shotguns, which indicated an attempt to cover their tracks and avoid detection. They chose a location far from their home, presumably to distance themselves from the purchase and any potential link to the crime.

They purchased two 12-gauge shotguns at a Big 5 Sporting Goods store in San Diego using fake IDs.

That's a lot of premeditation.

[rainbowsandroses]

@yogacat I don't disagree with what you posted, abuse or not I don't believe for one second they feared for their lives either! 

None of it justified their actions and they deserved exactly what they got, it was appalling!

I didn't actually start this thread to discuss their case, I started it to discuss the cycle of abuse.

As stated in my original post, their dad Jose was abused, their mom Kitty was abused, not necessarily sexual but it was abuse, physical and emotional.

It went back generations from reading legit articles and watching legit documentaries (NOT the Netflix ***) and listening to the testimonials from family members on both sides. 

And I was hoping to discuss that.

Thanks..

 

 

 

 

 

[tattoobunnie]

On 9/28/2024 at 9:46 AM, Kwothe28 said:

I watched "It Ends With Us", so it made me think about the topic. 

Just watched this on Saturday! I thought the movie was great. I'm glad that while they didn't keep the story with the beater, it didn't matter if he changed or not.  What changed was the main character choosing to not stay with an abuser, and normalizing the abuse for her daughter.

Sure, the whole ex thing made him insecure, but that wouldn't have me pushing my spouse down the stairs, and in case of taking them the hospital, tell them it's all okay.

Abusers start slow with small things.  The story wasn't about the guy shaping up and dealing with his issues. He's had issues since he was six; if a person wants to work through their issues, it shouldn't take biting a person in the collarbone to finally get things in motion.

[Kwothe28]

1 hour ago, tattoobunnie said:

What changed was the main character choosing to not stay with an abuser

And I would agree if it wasnt for one thing: She willingly birthed the kid to an abuser. After he tried to rape her. Therefore, she willingly connected her life with the abusers for years to come. And in process didnt do anything to protect herself nore the kid from abuser. In fact, she was shown to have very good relationship with him after everything, even naming kid after his dead brother, albeit asking for divorce. So, again, how did she ended the cycle? Or even didnt normalize the abuse? When he is still there connected to her and possibly abusing the kid in the future?

[rainbowsandroses]

3 hours ago, tattoobunnie said:

Just watched this on Saturday! I thought the movie was great. I'm glad that while they didn't keep the story with the beater, it didn't matter if he changed or not.  What changed was the main character choosing to not stay with an abuser, and normalizing the abuse for her daughter.

Sure, the whole ex thing made him insecure, but that wouldn't have me pushing my spouse down the stairs, and in case of taking them the hospital, tell them it's all okay.

Abusers start slow with small things.  The story wasn't about the guy shaping up and dealing with his issues. He's had issues since he was six; if a person wants to work through their issues, it shouldn't take biting a person in the collarbone to finally get things in motion.

Wow, I think I may pay the $19.99 and watch on Amazon Prime even though Netflix release is December!

From what I've read about it, it reminds me of why I ended things with "Elevator Guy" (if you remember that thread - the Gabby Petito thread); he was the former abuser who appeared to have changed.

However in retrospect now that I have completely moved past it, he still showed signs that literally everyone who responded had warned me about while I was struggling with the decision.

I am so proud of myself for ending things when I did!  Even though I had not recognized the signs at that time, but was nevertheless uncomfortable.

Did I break the pattern and the cycle?  

Time will tell I guess but I hope so!

I'm gonna rent the movie tonight!

 

[tattoobunnie]

1 hour ago, Kwothe28 said:

And I would agree if it wasnt for one thing: She willingly birthed the kid to an abuser. After he tried to rape her. Therefore, she willingly connected her life with the abusers for years to come. And in process didnt do anything to protect herself nore the kid from abuser. In fact, she was shown to have very good relationship with him after everything, even naming kid after his dead brother, albeit asking for divorce. So, again, how did she ended the cycle? Or even didnt normalize the abuse? When he is still there connected to her and possibly abusing the kid in the future?

It's okay to want to have the baby.  It's okay to coparent, and not wish to stay married.  They were not good together, married.  Plenty of people who beat on their spouse do not beat on their children.

Her dad did not treat her like a possession, and did not beat her.

My mom use to beat me and my brothers, but never my dad.  My grandma used to hit my mom every day, but never once laid a finger on me.  Dynamics of a situation are different depending on the relationship. 

The guy wasn't a psycho, but their marriage was toxic.

[Kwothe28]

29 minutes ago, tattoobunnie said:

Plenty of people who beat on their spouse do not beat on their children.

Yeah, but would you bet on that? With the guy who pushed you down the stairs and raped you?

And that is my main problem with the movie. Her dad is conveniently gone from the picture at the start so majority of his criticism is alienated by the fact that he is simply, well, dead. And she really doesnt do anything to protect her and her kid from the second abuser. You and the movie seem to think that it magically doesnt matter that the abuser just exists with no consequences because "oh he is just tragic character, not a psycho, he just pushed her down the stairs and did rape her". But if you look at the overall situation, him being there and even her being Ok with that, is very very disturbing. Yes, its good that they divorced. No, its certainly not good that somebody with his psyche is still in their lives. Which, from what Ive read, has proven true in sequel.

[mylolita]

51 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

Yeah, but would you bet on that? With the guy who pushed you down the stairs and raped you?

And that is my main problem with the movie. Her dad is conveniently gone from the picture at the start so majority of his criticism is alienated by the fact that he is simply, well, dead. And she really doesnt do anything to protect her and her kid from the second abuser. You and the movie seem to think that it magically doesnt matter that the abuser just exists with no consequences because "oh he is just tragic character, not a psycho, he just pushed her down the stairs and did rape her". But if you look at the overall situation, him being there and even her being Ok with that, is very very disturbing. Yes, its good that they divorced. No, its certainly not good that somebody with his psyche is still in their lives. Which, from what Ive read, has proven true in sequel.

I have to agree Kwothe! 
 

I have always championed that who you settle down with, and especially choose to have children with - is the most important decision of your life. It really is. Because it affects so much. Not only potentially you and your children and your friends and family who have to deal with sadness and grief and issues, but potentially your future generations too (grandchildren and so on). 
 

Hate to use this example but it’s the only one that springs to mind.

 

I know a single mother at school. She has four children. One is much older in her early twenties and out the house. She then has two girls, fourteen year old twins. Then a daughter also in my sons year who is 5 years old. They all have different fathers.

 

Now, she has briefly told me that her youngest daughters father was “a very violent man” and her first husband was “abusive”. I am trusting her when she says this. Everyone makes mistakes, but, three times? 
 

The girl in my sons year is, to me, desperate for a father figure. She clings to my son who is protective and mature in his little nature and she will run and hug my husband which is completely inappropriate as she hardly knows him. He holds his hands up not knowing how to react. Their lives are drama and chaotic with Dads in and out and different men about and their mother working full time and juggling what little time she has. They live in a lovely area and are not poor or rough, but it’s a slog. 
 

She recently (one year) acquired a new boyfriend who she can’t stop gushing about. He’s the Love Of Her Life and the best thing ever - can hardly do no wrong. I would love to stand behind that and be happy for her, but I am simply not confident in her decision making when it comes to partners. The track record is bad. 
 

I met him and instantly, wrong or not of me, judged him harshly. A bad fit and I personally wouldn’t touch him with a barge pole. I feel I have good and decent character judgement and can feel people out for the most part.

 

This thread reminded me of her because I get the impression she too was brought up in an abusive household. The cycle continues. I wish it didn’t but I think it has, even with the fathers mostly out of the picture, her decision making is warped and she has four girls to protect and think about and this, to me - isn’t happening, because she’s not fully capable, mentally, of choosing and making vital judgements about men. 
 

I wish it wasn’t so. 
 

x

[Cherylyn]

My thoughts are this:  Cycle of abuse can end.  I'm living proof of it.

My later father was a chain smoking,  heavily debt ridden,  wife beating alcoholic.  My mother was extremely miserable during her marriage and I bore the brunt of her beatings.  My younger siblings were spared her wrath because after she was left as a young widow and life was hard with her working 3 jobs 7 days a week,  at least she was relieved to be financially independent and no longer shackled to an abusive two faced husband.  She currently lives in her suburban house and enjoys her peace.  

My mother had a traumatic upbringing which still haunts her to this day. 

Have I forgiven her?  Not really but at least I'm civil whenever I visit my local mother and siblings.  I'm well mannered and respectful.  I bring homemade meals to her and do my best but those bad memories will never be erased.  I'm nice and in that regard,  I'm moving on.  We're not close though.  We're not chummy.

I think I'm a pretty good mother to our sons and was able to stay home for a few years and give them full time motherhood.  I enjoyed doting on them.  My husband and I live a settled life in our house.  🏡

What did it for me was marrying a stable,  great husband.  He hails from a normal background,  grew up with a strong father figure who taught his sons how to respect women in particular,  came from a loving,  nurturing home environment with two happily married parents and his siblings.  He grew up knowing nothing else so naturally he has been a positive role model for me and healthy influence for our sons.  Hence,  the cycle of abuse ended a generation ago for me. 

My husband provides a peaceful,  established and settled life for me.  When we met and married during our early 20s,  I felt as if he saved my life.  I could've continued marching forward had I never met him but I truly doubt I'd be content today if it wasn't for him.  I won the lottery and knew a catch when I saw one. 

I consider myself fortunate and truly blessed.  I know I'm lucky because my life could've easily gone awry fraught with despair and misfortune. 

Nowadays,  I thank my lucky stars and feel extremely grateful.  No more cycle of abuse over here.  👍 🤗

[rainbowsandroses]

On 9/30/2024 at 2:59 PM, mylolita said:

I met him and instantly, wrong or not of me, judged him harshly. A bad fit and I personally wouldn’t touch him with a barge pole. I feel I have good and decent character judgement and can feel people out for the most part.

Thanks for chiming in Lolita. 

^^I'm curious, what was it exactly that you sensed about him that caused such a negative reaction?

If you had known nothing about her mother's history of abuse including this girl's own father, would you have had the same impression and instantly deemed him a bad fit and all wrong? 

What were the signs you noticed about him?   Earnest question.

I'd hate to think that people automatucallly judged my boyfriend(s) harshly because my mom abused me.  Those who know about it. 

None of my boyfriends ever abused me the way my mom did and if they had, I would have left.

The way I left the man who at the time was the love of my life because due to his drug and alcohol use which was recent since his return from NY to care for his sick mom who died in his care, he lashed out at me in a violent way.  Among other things that went down that weren't good.

I left for good soon thereafter.  We were planning our wedding in Hawaii at the time.

I also left "Elevator Guy" once I discovered his history of abuse. 

So perhaps I've broken the cycle, or getting there?  

I still find myself "attracted to" men with dominant personalities though with a propensity towards violence (fights with other men for example) so it's still a work in progress.

I'm still not sure I recognize the signs clearly though. Reason being much of it I'm familiar with from my childhood so it seems "normal" to me. 

I'm navigating all of this with my new therapist which is painful but helpful.

Anyway thanks, to you and everyone who's chimed in. 💛

 

 

[rainbowsandroses]

5 hours ago, Theodore23 said:

It sounds like you’ve been deeply affected by what you’ve watched and read regarding the Menendez brothers and the cycle of abuse that can permeate families. The heartbreaking reality of generational trauma is something that often remains unspoken, yet it profoundly impacts the lives of those caught in its web. Your reflections highlight the complexities of understanding abusive behavior, as it’s often rooted in unresolved pain and trauma from previous generations. It’s commendable that you’re willing to explore these difficult topics and recognize the patterns that may have influenced your experiences. While confronting such painful memories can be daunting, it’s an important step toward healing and breaking the cycle for future generations. The discussion around these issues is crucial, especially as more people come to terms with their histories. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and encouraging an open dialogue about a topic that deserves more attention.

Thank you for the kind words, much appreciated. 😀

I agree with what's in bold, very much so!

It's actually surprising to me how more people are now coming out with their stories of abuse, even people I've known for years!  

The shame and stigma is lifting or so it seems? 

I know for me personally, I no longer feel shame discussing it whereas in the past, I did.

I find it healing. 

Anyway, I hope so!