Not in the popular clique at work

[catfeeder]

34 minutes ago, LootieTootie said:

I'm pretty much the same. I am one of those people who keep my personal life and work life separate. And it never bugged me when I wasn't invited to an event or to an outing because I could care less. All I did was kept my head down and work.

What did irked me was being passed for a promotion even when I would go over and beyond and take on more assignments than others. Every time I was passed for promotion, I always knew it was due to (1) not being chummy enough with the hiring manager or (2) office politics. Every time I got passed for a promotion, I just went and look for promotion somewhere else, and always got the job. It is the best revenge - the sweetest. Not only was I getting paid more than the person you passed me up for, you are going to have to fill in my shoes or hope to find someone who can- ha!

So if you know you aren't getting your dues, you need to ditch your employer. Who cares what so and so is doing or saying to get bosses to love them and overlook you. Thats just high-school mentality distraction that is keeping you from realizing that you need to go elsewhere to get recognition.

I was part of a consulting team of 4 on a site that required one of us to be the manager of the other 3. I’d already been thrown into management roles that I performed well enough, but interfered with the work I actually loved. So I promised the guys that I would support them if they took the role, which would be a step up in their career. I’d document, represent them in meetings and help them understand and perform requirements—who gets that kind of mentorship deal for advancing? Very few.

A few years later, our guy needed a replacement and our company wanted me to step in. I promised same deal to whoever else they chose. One guy was diligent, hard working, but kept to himself, and this made the client hesitant about his ability to ‘sell’ others on the cooperation needed for our projects.

Instead, they recruited a past team member to come back for the role.

Fair? Depends on who you ask. Our client was thrilled to have the guy come back, as everyone knew him due to the social capital he had built.

Social capital IS a thing. It’s referred to as ‘soft skills’. It may not be a requirement for one’s hire, but it’s usually a requirement for advancement. Consider it an item on the promotability report card of most companies.

[greendots]

What I've learnt over the years is that likeability is a huge factor when getting a job or promoting someone. Yes, your skills certainly matter. Nonetheless, being liked by the ones who have the most influence in vital matters puts the odds in your favour.

More than being popular, what matters is being really liked by at least one or two of the big bosses in your organization which will help you move forward in the company.

Likeability = having qualities that bring about a favorable regard. A boss likes and bonds with you; thus, higher chances of them trusting you, giving you more responsibility and so on.

 

 

[Alex39]

That's the issue. I'm purely talking about favoritism and popularity. 

I'm very well liked by most. I'm friendly, reliable, kind. I always go in with a positive attitude and fresh ideas. I'm enthusiastic. Every Christmas I drop cookies and pointsettias at each person's desk. I attend holiday parties, most birthday celebrations. 

I check in with all of my bosses and showcase communication skills. I've been called a great team player. I've also worked across departments well. I'm a very positive person with everyone I encounter and a "yes" woman. I'll do whatever is asked. 

I say "hi" and find I am a friendly person. Out at a bar with a large group, I may be shy. 

The last time I joined them on a rendezvous at a bar, I showed up, it was extremely awkward and I felt that the clique really wished others hadn't come. I felt unwanted. Why would I keep going? 

[Alex39]

I even once offered to watch my immediate boss' kids for her, if she and her husband needed a night out. I have a babysitters license from a hospital and know cpr, plus was a dance teacher for little ones for years. Which I told her. She made it seem like it was a conflict of interest.  But, she has all other staff watch her dog and go to her house and vice versa, she goes to theirs. 

[LootieTootie]

I don't want to hijack Alex's thread but I just wanted to echo Catfeeder's comment on social capital.

No doubt social skills is a plus in any work setting and when I have to be in social events for work-related conferences, believe me, I'm faking it to make it. In my line of work, sometimes you just have to be a social butterfly in order to get the job done -whether its closing a deal or you're motivating your staff. One time, a developer who had seen me multiple times at our events said "You know when you said you're an introvert, I just didn't believe you. Then when I visited your office a couple of times, you hardly said 3 words to me and just looked at your screen the whole time. Thats when I started to believe you were actually on the quiet side." I said "yea, because we needed you to make the deal work and I had to pretend that I could be someone you can trust and banter with. Did it work?" Of course it did. 

There are work places that it doesn't matter how likable you are, you can still be like less because of so and so. And thats okay. But if you are being overlooked or feel that way, then you need to bounce! Don;t waste time thinking "oh the atmosphere will change one day... Or maybe someone will finally recognize me... Or maybe...." The job market right now is an Employee Market, take advantage of it.

I learned long time ago that office politics, office popularity contest and office work in general should not ever stress anyone out to the point where they are losing sleep or posting online about it. There are so many jobs out there and when you're young, be willing to move for a good fit at a company who truly deserves you and what you bring to the table.

 

[Batya33]

3 hours ago, Alex39 said:

I even once offered to watch my immediate boss' kids for her, if she and her husband needed a night out. I have a babysitters license from a hospital and know cpr, plus was a dance teacher for little ones for years. Which I told her. She made it seem like it was a conflict of interest.  But, she has all other staff watch her dog and go to her house and vice versa, she goes to theirs. 

Because watching kids is very different than dog sitting. Ok maybe not for certain people but yes for her. I can relate. I do know of people who work in daycares and schools and babysit for certain parents on the side but that’s far more related. 

When I worked full time in competitive environments for over 15 years socializing and social skills were really important for networking and business development and getting future jobs - formal and informal references. Not “popularity”. 

Not as important in other environments or other specific work places. Honestly it also was important in certain preschools and elementary schools as far as those moms who wanted “mom” friends and to get inside info on the good schools and good sports rec teams. Etc.

I didn’t care to that extent. Not enough to do much traipsing around to social activities at a distance or being “class parent “ or the like. It’s not just in the workplace. So I’d meet people halfway and go even if it’s awkward.  Maybe not all the time but some of the time. 

[mylolita]

4 hours ago, greendots said:

What I've learnt over the years is that likeability is a huge factor when getting a job or promoting someone. Yes, your skills certainly matter. Nonetheless, being liked by the ones who have the most influence in vital matters puts the odds in your favour.

More than being popular, what matters is being really liked by at least one or two of the big bosses in your organization which will help you move forward in the company.

Likeability = having qualities that bring about a favorable regard. A boss likes and bonds with you; thus, higher chances of them trusting you, giving you more responsibility and so on.

 

 

Greendots!

In my opinion, you couldn't be more right here!

I have seen time and time again, experience and time within a certain field trump education/qualifications. I have seen who you know and who knows who trump work ethic and consistency. And the likeable, charismatic and positive colleagues, well! It's just like in the rest of life - their mistakes are softened, because they are personable and friendly, and they excel within companies and business because they are usually gregarious and outgoing! They can usually talk themselves out of bad situations, and talk themselves into favourable situations. It's like the game of life, inside the workplace, and out. 

It's not fair, but it's a hard truth, that getting ahead is so much more than what you have learnt on paper, and what array of degrees or qualifications you have under your belt.

Next to our office, was the recruiters office, who I would go to lunch with and what not (even though, I didn't like her personally too much!) and she often would reject candidates at interview simply because "I didn't like them" or, the big thing she used to say was, "I don't think they would be the right fit for here" - she might as well have said, "They won't fit in here". They were all qualified for the position, often over qualified, but what it boiled down to in that moment was, were they personable and confident and clean cut and presentable? Part of the job was, after all, courting and gaining new clients. 

You can only be yourself Alex. Sometimes, if the work environment really gets you down, or is a bad fit - if you're going to be spending the next 10 years there - obviously it has to not be terrible for you and getting you down. This type of social culture will be in every workplace to some extent - other places more so. I guess, it is what it is. 

Have you ever thought about pursuing a career that leans more into your natural skills, or is a more introverted role, with more solo work? Or a closer, smaller team?

x

[Wiseman2]

On 5/21/2023 at 8:19 PM, Alex39 said:

  She's my boss. I'm extremely upset by this. That I have to have a puppy and be outgoing and drink with my colleagues to get ahead. 

Unfortunately a bit of networking and schmoozing happens in workplaces. Whether it's on the golf course or happy hour or whatever. 

You don't have to get dogs or go out drinking or judge others. You seem to try to participate which is fine. But you don't have to get upset about private parties outside of work. Do you work from home a lot?

Yes always keep your resume and LinkedIn profile up to date. You can leisurely browse jobs while you're still employed and possibly find a better fit.

You can't really change the workplace culture or habits of coworkers, so focus on ways to cope with fellow employees. Hope this helps:

https://health.clevelandclinic.org/how-you-can-best-deal-with-challenging-co-workers/

 

[Batya33]

I also think "likeability" often is job related if the job is forward facing/sales/business development. If your boss/colleagues like being around you they will be more likely to present opportunities to you in those areas or promotion opportunities.  

[mylolita]

44 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I also think "likeability" often is job related if the job is forward facing/sales/business development. If your boss/colleagues like being around you they will be more likely to present opportunities to you in those areas or promotion opportunities.  

I agree - this is simply human nature, and hard to change! 

Best to roll with it or find somewhere different that you feel fits in with your personality and ethics a little better Alex!

x

[Jaunty]

There is a lot of judgement and sort of sour grapes vibe in your original post.  I agree with others who have said that you are in the social situation that you are by your own choice and behavior.   That's not wrong.  You don't need to spend your free time or social energy with work related relationships and activities, but then don't be butthurt when you are not a part of those.

As far as getting another job - if this is a toxic workplace which is making your life miserable, and you don't like the work, AND you know you can advance in a way that will suit your goals well elsewhere - sure.  Move on.  

If you're mostly grumpy because of how you perceive other people and what they're doing ... you are likely to find reasons to feel that way in a different place as well.