Dr. Lady check in…

[Whirling D]

2 hours ago, Batya33 said:

It’s not alpha male to act in an assertive way. Alpha male to me is a stereotype or caricature. Like the middle aged guy who comes to our small fitness room once in awhile with his notebook then proceeds to do a sort of circuit training thing with the machines and weights for about then minutes. Lots of groaning etc then leaves. At around 5am. That to me is image of “alpha male” - sort of strong determined fighter lifting weights.

I’d lose the mindset that it’s a big deal to be assertive on a date or to ask a woman out and have a specific plan in mind etc. that’s just typical human interaction.  And not gender specific. 

I guess when I use the term alpha male, I am using it in the context of the animal/human world, which sees the alpha as being the leader or dominant of the pack.

in a relationship, the alpha is often the one that has the greater portion of power, and will likely assert that power, not necessarily in bad ways, but will be the one that is often considered the leader… often in charge of making plans, handling money, making final decisions, etc.

I think I could be a co-alpha in a relationship (although it is disputed whether there can be two alphas as a couple), but I don’t think I would do well as a beta. 

[Batya33]

2 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

I guess when I use the term alpha male, I am using it in the context of the animal/human world, which sees the alpha as being the leader or dominant of the pack.

in a relationship, the alpha is often the one that has the greater portion of power, and will likely assert that power, not necessarily in bad ways, but will be the one that is often considered the leader… often in charge of making plans, handling money, making final decisions, etc.

I think I could be a co-alpha in a relationship (although it is disputed whether there can be two alphas as a couple), but I don’t think I would do well as a beta. 

Ok - that's sort of stereotypical thinking because people are indiviuals and their interactions and dynamic can evolve/change/not fit into a neat little box.  I think that makes life more fun.  

[Whirling D]

I’m starting to look ahead in time now. Several times today I thought about how I will approach our first real date…

here are some things I have been thinking about…

Is it too early to pick some flowers from my property and bring them to her? I’m sensing it might be too early, but I’m not sure that I wanna follow that thought… I have really nice lilacs in bloom, and beautiful red quince flowers from my bushes… It would be easy to just snap some off and bring them to her.

too much?  I certainly wouldn’t be all gushy when I gave them to her… Just as a nice gesture.

and then there is thought about whether I should even try to push the romantic side forward. Is it too early to think about trying to hold her hand if we are walking? Or, stop and give her a kiss if the mood seems right?

Of course, I would gauge how things are going and whether it feels like it is heading in that direction… I don’t know if I will have the nuts to do any of those things if it doesn’t feel like we’re really in sync again, like it seemed last time.

then there’s thought about what happens at the end of the date,… Would it seem reasonable to say, “well Dr. lady… I have to say… You are quite a lady, and if I can be truthful, I like you a lot.  Is that something that is OK with you?“

some might say that it is being proactive to let my intent be known and to be forward like that, but if she’s on the edge as to where she wants to go with things, it might be premature.

[Batya33]

Too much. Show her you like her by planning another date before the date ends -time and place.  Then it will be clear to her that you are interested in dating her.  I would not express emotions in that way on a first date or second and I would not bring flowers for the practical reason of -where to keep them -she might think you're angling to be invited inside her home. 

It's really easy to feel in sync with someone you just met -there are no responsibilities -you're not trying to be in sync to make important decisions - or anything of the sort -it's simply a feeling based on a person you don't know yet.

[Whirling D]

4 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Ok - that's sort of stereotypical thinking because people are indiviuals and their interactions and dynamic can evolve/change/not fit into a neat little box.  I think that makes life more fun.  

I don’t really think of those terms when I am in a relationship, either… But, if I start to feel one way or the other, that’s when things start to get out of whack. That’s when the trouble starts to brew.

with my last lady friend, actually even with the one before that, they would just say… “I don’t care what we do, you just pick“. So I would. They would always enjoy the event, but then somewhere down the road, both of them would say “you only do things that you want to do and we never Don things I want to do”.  Really?  
 

I would constantly be asking them what they would like to do and to pick things they would want to do, and they just never would.

so by the definition I was using, they were deferring their own power and yielding the floor to me, for whatever reason that served them. I didn’t really care for that, truthfully.

[Batya33]

1 minute ago, Whirling D said:

I don’t really think of those terms when I am in a relationship, either… But, if I start to feel one way or the other, that’s when things start to get out of whack. That’s when the trouble starts to brew.

with my last lady friend, actually even with the one before that, they would just say… “I don’t care what we do, you just pick“. So I would. They would always enjoy the event, but then somewhere down the road, both of them would say “you only do things that you want to do and we never Don things I want to do”.  Really?  
 

I would constantly be asking them what they would like to do and to pick things they would want to do, and they just never would.

so by the definition I was using, they were deferring their own power and yielding the floor to me, for whatever reason that served them. I didn’t really care for that, truthfully.

That's one individual who acted in an annoying and immature way -nothing to do with power -or don't assume.  That person didn't feel like putting in the effort and didn't want to accept the downside.  That's simply a person who is thoughtless.  Or a person who wanted an excuse to stop seeing you.

[Whirling D]

15 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Too much. Show her you like her by planning another date before the date ends -time and place.  Then it will be clear to her that you are interested in dating her.  I would not express emotions in that way on a first date or second and I would not bring flowers for the practical reason of -where to keep them -she might think you're angling to be invited inside her home. 

It's really easy to feel in sync with someone you just met -there are no responsibilities -you're not trying to be in sync to make important decisions - or anything of the sort -it's simply a feeling based on a person you don't know yet.

I do like the idea of asking her out on another outing. Perhaps, in the middle of the day, I’ll ask her if she wants to go do the seaside walk that we had mentioned. Just sucks that that will be two weeks away.  

I suppose I could tell her that I could rearrange something and have a different day off, and come up for dinner or something, or maybe even go out for breakfast on Wednesday when she has her day off.

it feels to me that we will have to quickly break out of just doing something like dinners or sitting at cafés. We will need shared experiences, and we’re not just gonna get that by sitting staring at each other. We have to DO things.  That’s a little why the dog walk feels a little empty. I mean, it’s OK, I guess, but not very romantic.

A seaside walk? That feels romantic.  I wonder if that’s why she hasn’t picked up on that.

she did mention walking around a historic pond nearby, and I think she said she’s never been there… But they don’t take dogs. I may mention if she wants to come down, we could go there, and there’s a neat little town nearby with lots of wonderful shops and things to see. It’s an hour and 15 minutes from where she lives, though. I guess she could stay at her mothers that night if she wanted to. 

I was thinking of going up to her vicinity, though. Should I stick with that, or suggest that she come down near here to do that last idea?

[Batya33]

1 minute ago, Whirling D said:

I do like the idea of asking her out on another outing. Perhaps, in the middle of the day, I’ll ask her if she wants to go do the seaside walk that we had mentioned. Just sucks that that will be two weeks away.  

I suppose I could tell her that I could rearrange something and have a different day off, and come up for dinner or something, or maybe even go out for breakfast on Wednesday when she has her day off.

it feels to me that we will have to quickly break out of just doing something like dinners or sitting at cafés. We will need shared experiences, and we’re not just gonna get that by sitting staring at each other. We have to DO things.  That’s a little why the dog walk feels a little empty. I mean, it’s OK, I guess, but not very romantic.

A seaside walk? That feels romantic.  I wonder if that’s why she hasn’t picked up on that.

she did mention walking around a historic pond nearby, and I think she said she’s never been there… But they don’t take dogs. I may mention if she wants to come down, we could go there, and there’s a neat little town nearby with lots of wonderful shops and things to see. It’s an hour and 15 minutes from where she lives, though. I guess she could stay at her mothers that night if she wanted to. 

I was thinking of going up to her vicinity, though. Should I stick with that, or suggest that she come down near here to do that last idea?

One date at a time.  You haven't even had a first real date.  Shared experiences are for when you're dating regularly and you are a couple and then the two of you can decide together what makes sense -why the constant getting ahead of yourself? 

[Wiseman2]

3 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

I was thinking of going up to her vicinity, though. Should I stick with that, or suggest that she come down near here to do that last idea?

It's your turn to drive. Please contact her soon so she can pick something she enjoys. Let her pick something she likes, is interested in and reflects something about her. Although it's fun to muse about things, it would be nice if she can choose.

[Batya33]

You remind me of the time after a second date (we met through a personal ad) I wrote in my journal combinations of what our married names would look like.  Which was ok cause I was 20 years old.  

[Jaunty]

9 hours ago, Whirling D said:

I guess when I use the term alpha male, I am using it in the context of the animal/human world, which sees the alpha as being the leader or dominant of the pack.

No, you're using it in the "pop culture" sense propagated by the PUA community.  

What you need to do is be your best most authentic self.   If you have traits that you know are holding you back, work on them.   

 

[Whirling D]

Feeling completely isolated and alone this morning.  Feeling particularly triggered, for whatever reason. I haven’t had coffee for four days, so there’s a small chance that it’s caffeine withdrawal related, but usually by this time I feel a bit better. It could be allergies, as well, and it’s affecting my head.

feel like I might as well have coffee, because it is a pick me up and usually makes me feel a bit better. At least for a handful of hours. Until it doesn’t. That’s what addictions do.

but when my brain clears from whatever I’m doing right in front of me, I think of this situation with the lady doctor. I’ve gotten to a point where I’m thinking about her a little less, because I’m starting to see how futile it seems. 

I can’t know what she’s thinking, but I can speculate. I’m not feeling hugely confident. Either by proximity or by social status compatibility, I’m not leaving room for a lot of hope.  That in itself feels crippling, given she has been the only flicker of hope I’ve had for as long as I can remember.  Maybe ever.  I have even thought about blowing it off, because it’s just… too… hard.

living alone for extended periods of time can be really difficult for some. As mentioned, after a handful of months of being single, I begin to stabilize, and then something like this transpires, and it just throws it out the window.  There is hope. Maybe a nice girl could like me. Maybe I could find a partner that I find interesting and attractive. The world could be a kinder gentler place. But then again, probably not.

i’m going to hop in my car and go to a coffee shop a half an hour away that I like… Although I won’t be drinking coffee. It will get me out, and soothe my weary baby soul for a little while.  

I had band practice last night with good guys that I can consider my friends. That was good. I even felt a little more upbeat than usual, likely from this internal knowledge that I met a very wonderful lady, and she seemed to like me. Maybe she still does. Maybe she has met somebody else. May be hurt terse and disconnected text on Saturday had nothing to do with me.  She hasn’t been on the dating site for a couple of days, which I guess might be good for my chances. But it also maybe makes me think she’s talking with somebody else a little more exclusively. I couldn’t know. I shouldn’t know. I shouldn’t care. 

But I do.

[Batya33]

I’m sorry about your anxiety. I don’t relate to hope. Right now she’s accepted your invitation for another date. To me realistic expectations are that she shows up for the date.  This  is also because she showed up for the first meet.  Beyond that is akin to the sky might fall. The only information you have about her interest in dating you is that she agreed to a first official date.  That shows she is interested in seeing you again because with rare exception a person who agrees to meet again does so because they wish to meet again. And the exception would be if somehow she is really unstable and it doesn’t seem like she is. Certainly there might be an emergency that prevents her from meeting on that day but you can expect that she’d agree to and want to reschedule. 
For you personally given how you overthink and overreact “hoping “ and ruminating beyond one date at a time is self sabotaging and really unhealthy for you. 
one way I maintain my physical health - this  is  just what works for me - I eat at around the same times each day and while I vary what I eat for lunches and dinners it’s typically from a list of foods and meals that I enjoy and seem to work for me overall.
I’m a person who loves to eat the same breakfast every day - and always coffee in the morning but gave up coffee at other times - but obviously others switch it up.
Sticking to a routine keeps my body feeling more stable. Just sharing in case it helps. I also stick to a water drinking routine so I don’t drink much after 6pm and I make sure to have 10-12 glasses of water a day. It helps me so much physically and mentally. 

[MrMan1983]

2 hours ago, Whirling D said:

Feeling completely isolated and alone this morning.  Feeling particularly triggered, for whatever reason. I haven’t had coffee for four days, so there’s a small chance that it’s caffeine withdrawal related, but usually by this time I feel a bit better. It could be allergies, as well, and it’s affecting my head.

feel like I might as well have coffee, because it is a pick me up and usually makes me feel a bit better. At least for a handful of hours. Until it doesn’t. That’s what addictions do.

but when my brain clears from whatever I’m doing right in front of me, I think of this situation with the lady doctor. I’ve gotten to a point where I’m thinking about her a little less, because I’m starting to see how futile it seems. 

I can’t know what she’s thinking, but I can speculate. I’m not feeling hugely confident. Either by proximity or by social status compatibility, I’m not leaving room for a lot of hope.  That in itself feels crippling, given she has been the only flicker of hope I’ve had for as long as I can remember.  Maybe ever.  I have even thought about blowing it off, because it’s just… too… hard.

living alone for extended periods of time can be really difficult for some. As mentioned, after a handful of months of being single, I begin to stabilize, and then something like this transpires, and it just throws it out the window.  There is hope. Maybe a nice girl could like me. Maybe I could find a partner that I find interesting and attractive. The world could be a kinder gentler place. But then again, probably not.

i’m going to hop in my car and go to a coffee shop a half an hour away that I like… Although I won’t be drinking coffee. It will get me out, and soothe my weary baby soul for a little while.  

I had band practice last night with good guys that I can consider my friends. That was good. I even felt a little more upbeat than usual, likely from this internal knowledge that I met a very wonderful lady, and she seemed to like me. Maybe she still does. Maybe she has met somebody else. May be hurt terse and disconnected text on Saturday had nothing to do with me.  She hasn’t been on the dating site for a couple of days, which I guess might be good for my chances. But it also maybe makes me think she’s talking with somebody else a little more exclusively. I couldn’t know. I shouldn’t know. I shouldn’t care. 

But I do.

Man please try the physical exercise thing, what harm can it do? Just a 10 minute jog or a good long walk, sitting round the house all the time is a form of torture. There is a benefit to seeking some discomfort too (eg. getting some exercise in the cold rain) it might put things in perspective a little bit more.

[Whirling D]

49 minutes ago, MrMan1983 said:

Man please try the physical exercise thing, what harm can it do? Just a 10 minute jog or a good long walk, sitting round the house all the time is a form of torture. There is a benefit to seeking some discomfort too (eg. getting some exercise in the cold rain) it might put things in perspective a little bit more.

Thank you, Man.

that’s exactly what I was just doing. Not much, but probably about a 1 mile walk with my neighbor, who is always very supportive, even though I usually talk her ear off about stupid stuff, just like all of this stuff.

it makes me feel better, because it distracts me, and I guess there is probably a small amount of residual benefit, but if my brain is going to whirl… Pun intended… It’s going to go. Not much is going to stop it.

[Batya33]

42 minutes ago, MrMan1983 said:

Man please try the physical exercise thing, what harm can it do? Just a 10 minute jog or a good long walk, sitting round the house all the time is a form of torture. There is a benefit to seeking some discomfort too (eg. getting some exercise in the cold rain) it might put things in perspective a little bit more.

I actually did that today - had a bit of negative energy to get out and had to return a library book - round trip a bit less than a mile walk -did the trick.

[Whirling D]

Interestingly, when I was out treating myself to breakfast this morning, because of some fantastic financial news, I was reading an article about connectedness.

The article, which was in a psych magazine, stated that there is continued scientific evidence that there is a biological need for feeling interconnected with those of you around you, in order to feel happy safe and secure. This article said that we are biologically wired to pursue interconnectedness.

according to the authors, it is pretty much a given that in tribal communities, the village members see themselves more as a part of a greater whole of the community, rather than isolated individuals. I certainly yearn for that connectivity.

they were saying that not feeling a sense of connectedness is almost a biological recipe for anxiety, depression, anger and violence. Might explain our western culture and it’s seeming spiral downward.

I was talking to my therapist earlier, and she was saying that it is no surprise that I feel like I do, and that I ruminate like I do, because I am yearning for that goal of interconnectedness, which is pretty much how I grew up, but nothing I have come close to finding as an adult where I currently live.

we were talking about marginalized groups, and in many ways she agrees that people like me are marginalized.  Those of us, for so many different reasons, that fall outside of the box, if you will, are often put into separate categories and are largely ignored. Although I would never put myself in the category of immigrants are minorities, I can empathize with those groups for very similar reasons. Because they are different, in many cases, they are largely ignored, and in worst case scenario, they are ridiculed and abused. 

I do feel for those marginalized groups, because in many ways, I feel marginalized myself.

[Batya33]

Except to an extent you have chosen aspects of your lifestyle that may be atypical.  Whereas in many situations those who are marginalized had little to no control over their circumstances - and you benefit from your choices - how you write about your choices gives me that impression.

I believe connectedness can come in many forms and individuals respond to those feelings and opportunities in individual ways.  I like connecting with people over my love of books.  I like connecting with my son through shared laughter and hugs.  Etc.

[Wiseman2]

4 hours ago, Whirling D said:

  I met a very wonderful lady, and she seemed to like me. 

Keep that thought. The next step is to touch base (at least by Thu Wed) not ponder too much about phrasing and suggest you drive to her and let her pick out her favorite places and activities.  No dogs, flowers, etc. Let things evolve more naturally. Start with a fun second date.

[Whirling D]

1 minute ago, Wiseman2 said:

Keep that thought. The next step is to touch base (at least by Thu Wed) not ponder too much about phrasing and suggest you drive to her and let her pick out her favorite places and activities.  No dogs, flowers, etc. Let things evolve more naturally. Start with a fun second date.

Do you really feel like me picking some flowers from my property, and giving them to her in a non-gushy kind of way, would really not be a sweet thing?  I wouldn’t be presenting them as if I was trying to be romantic, and there is some part of that, but that’s kind of just who I want to be in the world… If I have nice flowers on my property, why wouldn’t I want to pick some and bring them to her, just as a gesture of caring for who she is, let alone a romantic gesture. 

definite no?

[Whirling D]

19 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Except to an extent you have chosen aspects of your lifestyle that may be atypical.  Whereas in many situations those who are marginalized had little to no control over their circumstances - and you benefit from your choices - how you write about your choices gives me that impression.

I believe connectedness can come in many forms and individuals respond to those feelings and opportunities in individual ways.  I like connecting with people over my love of books.  I like connecting with my son through shared laughter and hugs.  Etc.

Very true… I do connect with my band mates, for example… But they are fairly typical tough males… Beer drinking buddies, etc., and we bond over music, but not so much over alcohol and other male interests… Even though there are other things that we bond over. That’s the one activity all week I usually look forward to.  They are a very good bunch, and for the most part, I feel accepted and valued… But that may very well be more for my musical contribution, rather than my social characteristics.

well, you’ve heard me say over and over again, how many times… That I think I am marginalized by the way I look.  Long hair, short hair, good job, not so good job… hasn’t mattered one iota.

 I think I am marginalized because I don’t look like everyone else, and even my therapist says that there is a whole study of people who are physically marginalized because they don’t fit into the stereotype. From what I understand, that’s a fairly predominant western feature, and not so much eastern cultures or aboriginal. 

 

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, Whirling D said:

Do you really feel like me picking some flowers from my property, and giving them to her in a non-gushy kind of way, would really not be a sweet thing?  I wouldn’t be presenting them as if I was trying to be romantic, and there is some part of that, but that’s kind of just who I want to be in the world… If I have nice flowers on my property, why wouldn’t I want to pick some and bring them to her, just as a gesture of caring for who she is, let alone a romantic gesture. 

definite no?

All you need to do is touch base in a timely manner. Try not to stall out on details.  Contact her, tell her you'll drive to her and let her choose what she would like. That's the first step.

Keep in mind it's fine to think out loud here, but generally as far as rehearsed talks and flowers, less is more. So focus on planning a fun second date, the first step being contact her.

[Whirling D]

Just now, Wiseman2 said:

All you need to do is touch base in a timely manner. Try not to stall out on details.  Contact her, tell her you'll drive to her and let her choose what she would like. That's the first step. 

Stall out on details? You mean not pin things down?  No, that’s not what I’m expecting to do. I’m thinking of either calling or text her either tomorrow or Thursday. Thursday seems kind of late, though.

I haven’t texted her and called her or heard from her since Saturday, which is the longest time since I met her a week and two days ago. Does that seem curious or unnatural? Might she be wondering why I kind of have tapered off? I did so not to make her feel like I am being too different pushy. 

also… Wording:  my gut usually tells me that I should offer someone an avenue of an out, in case they have changed their mind or something… Something like “hi Dr. lady, let me know when we can talk about Saturday, if you are still thinking that you’d like to get together on Saturday“ or something like that.

I know that’s passive and not aggressive, but it’s always felt like I wanted to give the person a little wiggle room, in case they were having second thoughts. Bad idea?

[MrMan1983]

13 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

Do you really feel like me picking some flowers from my property, and giving them to her in a non-gushy kind of way, would really not be a sweet thing?  I wouldn’t be presenting them as if I was trying to be romantic, and there is some part of that, but that’s kind of just who I want to be in the world… If I have nice flowers on my property, why wouldn’t I want to pick some and bring them to her, just as a gesture of caring for who she is, let alone a romantic gesture. 

definite no?

Why take the risk of something that can backfire? Even if you think you're not presenting them in a majorly romantic way she may not read it like that. Main thing is to just meet up and get to know each other more as you've only met for two hours so far.

[MrMan1983]

1 minute ago, Whirling D said:

hi Dr. lady, let me know when we can talk about Saturday, if you are still thinking that you’d like to get together on Saturday

I would remove the end of that, if she wants an out she'll say she can't make it for whatever reason. Confidence is attractive, so best to confidently try and set the date.