Dr. Lady check in…

[Morello]

3 hours ago, Whirling D said:

So, are you saying I should be thinking solely about the fact that the dr, Lady likes me?  Are you not sensing any of the red flags, or even pink ones by any of this? You would be OK with this if you were on the receiving end?

I think you need to be mindful of your own red flags you are bringing into this before overfocusing on hers. Your constant need for validation, the combative attitude (disagreeing with her a lot and playing 'devil's advocate' constantly), and the extreme anxiety could also be seen by her as red flags; so far she seems fine with it, for what it appears from your descriptions.

You say yourself that you are neurodivergent (and she might be as well, hence her interest and potential compatibility), so this whole red flag discussion takes a different shape and meaning. Things that would be red flags for the average person might not apply anymore, and there might be other 'new' red flags that become more important.

You should focus on whether you are having your needs met by her or if you think you would in case of a relationship with her. Remember, you are not in a relationship yet. You have only been on two dates.

You are the only one who knows what your dealbreakers are. But be mindful if such dealbreakers are true dealbreakers and not just your attachment style or past experiences rearing their ugly heads. You could also use a more realistic approach, and think whether even with her 'red flags' (which to me seem only a more relaxed communication style than yours) you wouldn't be better off with her than alone. Relationships are never perfect, there are always some trade-offs in place.

[MrMan1983]

36 (over 50 including the other thread) forum pages of essays of fear, anxiousness,  analysing, worrying about whether she likes you and now she sends you an ‘I miss you’ text and it’s a problem 😂 Least you’ve got the reassurance you needed and can relax now 👍🏻 

[Kwothe28]

I checked out around of page 5. Anybody willing to do a synopsys? 😁

Why is he talking about living with her? I thought that they only had a few dates and message in between? What did I miss lol

[Wiseman2]

9 hours ago, Whirling D said:

 I am also pretty independent in many ways… Maybe too independent for someone to feel codependent toward me.

I don't think an innocuous 'miss you' type of text while someone is away is pathological or "codependent".

Try to stay in the present. There's no need to figure out how she's going to sell her place, get a job in a nearby hospital and come live in your state in your house.  

Right now enjoy the connection and "kindred spirit". As a licensed physician in another state and a homeowner there, she seems to have the wherewithal to figure out what's in her own best interest for her own future and retirement.

[MrMan1983]

10 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

I don't think an innocuous 'miss you' type of text while someone is away is pathological or "codependent".

Exactly and the irony of it if you compare it to there being 50 forum pages of essays dedicated specially to you after being on 2/3 dates with someone 😂 

[Batya33]

8 hours ago, Whirling D said:

I went on to say how my mother at 90 years old has never thought about what she has eaten in her life… And her and my dad eat ice cream several times a week, eat bacon and eggs whenever they want, my mother eats tons of chocolate all the time…

Mine too basically -my mom -and she is thin even underweight (difference though she does eat small portions -I eat very similarly to her with small portions -mom does't have dementia -maybe lately a bit more repetitive-she is 88).  

For me personally -having mostly survived an (undiagnosed) eating disorder I can't stand comments/unsolicited advice about diet like that.  (And I know people who make their own food -I very often do- and are really not healthy/overweight).  I think she meant well and I think her initial message was very sweet!

I'd avoid "discussions" about sensitive topics like diet/weight etc over text especially since you can't freely call her for a couple of days.

[Sindy_0311]

OMG I cant believe this!!

Did you really write she is clingy?? My eyes are hurting 😫

 

[MrMan1983]

6 minutes ago, Sindy_0311 said:

Did you really write she is clingy?? My eyes are hurting 😫

Similar 😂

[Type O Negative]

10 minutes ago, MrMan1983 said:

Similar 😂

Same here.🤦‍♀️

[TheCrow]

.

[Whirling D]

now, be nice. I can’t help what I feel about something like this.

It’s kind of surprising… Many of you guys were all over my case just for considering saying “call me if you want“ indicating it takes the power away from her making her own decisions in that regard.

saying to someone that you miss them with the amount of time that we’ve known each other runs the risk of doing almost the exact same thing.

there is a lot of weight packed into “I hope you’re missing me like I’m missing you“. I’m surprise some of you aren’t picking up on that. It almost feels like there’s the possibility of expectation thrown in there, if you were to read between the lines… and that’s scary for me.

Even… “Cut back on the sweets“ could be interpreted as a directive, or a command… Rather than the alternative, “might be good to cut back on sweets, because…“.

I know, I know. I’m probably looking for reasons to sabotage, because my puny little soul is feeling painfully insecure, but I think there is a small part that could interpret these things as something to be aware of… Caution. Isn’t that what you guys were saying I should be thinking all along?

you guys kept saying… Take it slow… Something may be amiss here because you’re going to fast… She’s going to think you are needy.  That may be true, but now we’re seeing that she may be needy, as well, and that tells me to slow down.

just because I feel I need to be cautious because someone is needy, maybe like I am, isn’t just because it’s hypocritical, which it may seem. It just may be that this particular combination of two needy people may not just be the right thing, perhaps for either one of us. I won’t know that yet.  
 

many of you have said that it’s very unattractive, if not cringe worthy, that I have been “needy“ like this. So, how is it not understandable that it may not be attractive for me to feel that coming from her?

I’m going to do just as some of you have said. I am going to try To relax, and try hard just try to take things one step at a time.  

that “I miss you“ hit me by surprise. I still don’t know what to think about it. My anxiety was coming from simply having a hard time believing that she even liked me, let alone misses me after such a short amount of time.

[Type O Negative]

The thing is though D.. you keep referring to past trauma and abandonment.. you're self diagnosing as BPD, CPSD etc etc.. this is essentially every single middle aged person on the planet.

I mean, I'm a nutcase. A functioning one but a nutcase nonetheless. So is my darling husband. I adore him, but he's most certainly a fellow nutcase.  Show me a 50 something who says 'I'm all great and content, I have no 'issues', I've worked with psychologists, got on meds and now I'm all better' and I'll show you.. someone who's talking out of their backside. No-one gets to 50 something unscathed. You can't 'cure' a sum total of 50 plus years of life with its ups and downs and sorrows and tragedies.

 

But what I'm trying to say is that it's a touch too late to blame childhood/younger years trauma for your issues at 61. Not saying you need to 'get all better' because I don't think getting all better is in fact possible at this age and trying to do so is a waste of very limited time.

 

I think at this age you have got to have developed ways to navigate the world WITH your issues and make the best of what's on offer. You're self-sabotaging. You're looking for problems where there seem to be none. You need to stop and think: do I want his woman to continue being in my life, or do I not? If she were to disappear, would I feel better, or worse? 

[boltnrun]

No, I do not see any "red flags" on her end. I see many on yours.

You are getting what you said you want and your reaction is to conclude she has "red flags", is "clingy" and is "codependent".

I have to conclude she only has value to you as long as she's unattainable. Once it's clear she's into you she's lost all of her value. 

if this is how you react to someone you wanted to like you actually liking you, I have nothing more to contribute. Because I don't believe you actually want what you've been claiming to want.

To answer your question, I lived alone hundreds of miles from family. And it was during the worst of the pandemic that I was in crisis. Still reached out for professional help because I didn't want to live with constant fear, anxiety and depression. I worked through previous bad experiences. So while I am of course still aware of and remember the bad things that happened I don't allow them to dictate my actions or consume my thoughts.

[Sindy_0311]

 

11 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

 

now, be nice. I can’t help what I feel about something like this

 

Im sorry @Whirling D. I just cant stop laughing 😁

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!! 

[Batya33]

Just now, Whirling D said:

I can’t help what I feel about something like this.

You can help how you react.  Yesterday I had to do this at an incredibly pivotal moment.  What I did or did not do at that moment would have likely been in my son's memory forever.  Not over dramatizing.  I felt like crap.  I felt like I'd hit a wall, I felt anxious.  I felt frustrated beyond belief.  With myself, my son, my husband.

I literally stood at a fork in the road in our park. With my husband and son. On son's graduation day from middle school.  Halfway home because he left right before with a real stomachache exacerbated by public speaking anticipatory nerves.  I'd just walked a mile there with my husband to get there in time with texts from my son "please I want to go home I don't feel well and the bathrooms here are awful".  

At the last darn minute husband was with son outside of the graduation ceremony plus a staff member to see what should happen.  I kept our seats and got to see every one of his classmates march in without him.  I waited outside -it was too hard to watch them all without my son.  We all left and were told he could come back if he felt better/changed his mind. Which he seemed to halfway home, 10-15 minute walk back to the venue.

At that moment I wanted to react to my feelings by losing it.  At that moment I said without much drama "I am not returning and I think it's inappropriate at this point if you do as you'll disrupt everything and chances are he'll get there and still be unsure."  I then said I was continuing on home but stayed calm and didn't say more about my opinion which they disagreed with. I didn't debate further.

As it turned out they did go back.  I wanted to text my frustration to my husband -sort of an I told you so part too given the source of his stomach issues.  I wanted I wanted I wanted -like you say you "can't help it" I knew right then my obligation was to "help it".  So I texted nothing except that I was en route to the market so they'd know where I was.

They went back.  My husband in my husband's way facilitated this. I watched my son's 45 second speech later on video. My son came home and was not mad at me.  He was full of gratitude that I'd done all I could for days to get him ready, that morning, that I'd shown up.  Said he loved me so much.  They both understood why I didn't go back and son was overjoyed that he sat with his classmates his stomach hurting and still did his speech. 

Imagine if I'd "lost it" imagine if I'd texted and poisoned things with my "reactions" to my "feelings" "But I couldn't help it!" I'd say and meanwhile he'd have had this lovely memory of his mikimoto pearls clad mom venting in a park about all the chaos and drama on graduation day.  Instead he saw me make a choice, make it calmly, knowing I wasn't putting a kabosh on going back (meaning making him come home, etc) or making him doubt himself to try again.

I did my retail therapy at the supermarket. I felt better when I walked home.  So please stop with the I can't help it -you can help it.  You can help how you react and treat other humans including humans you hope to develop a closer relationship with.  Thanks for listening to my off topic story as I don't want to date my son or husband lol I just wanted to stand up for them and show up for them and that meant choosing a reaction to incredibly overwhelming and exhausting feelings.  I am not perfect and I mess up but that's on me.

[Wiseman2]

13 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

 now we’re seeing that she may be needy, as well, and that tells me to slow down.

I'm not seeing it. I'm seeing a person away on a trip sending a 'miss you' text.

[Whirling D]

10 minutes ago, Type O Negative said:

The thing is though D.. you keep referring to past trauma and abandonment.. you're self diagnosing as BPD, CPSD etc etc.. this is essentially every single middle aged person on the planet.

I mean, I'm a nutcase. A functioning one but a nutcase nonetheless. So is my darling husband. I adore him, but he's most certainly a fellow nutcase.  Show me a 50 something who says 'I'm all great and content, I have no 'issues', I've worked with psychologists, got on meds and now I'm all better' and I'll show you.. someone who's talking out of their backside. No-one gets to 50 something unscathed.

 

But what I'm trying to say is that it's a touch too late to blame childhood/younger years trauma for your issues at 61. Not saying you need to 'get all better' because I don't think getting all better is in fact possible at this age and trying to do so is a waste of very limited time.

 

I think at this age you have got to have developed ways to navigate the world WITH your issues and make the best of what's on offer. You're self-sabotaging. You're looking for problems where there seem to be none. You need to stop and think: do I want his woman to continue being in my life, or do I not? If she were to disappear, would I feel better, or worse? 

You are absolutely right, O. Thank you.

there’s no magic fix for someone who suffers with such issues.  I do OK in other areas. Just OK. Relationships are tough for me, for all the obvious reasons. I can’t just click my fingers and make my feelings and thoughts go away.

I am actually trying to work into what I am feeling. And understand where it’s coming from. I’m trying not to self sabotage, but I also feel this huge need to distance. I’m trying not to feel that, but I do.

but I’m not going to. She would likely come back to the topic of whether we are getting together on Monday, and I’m going to take those steps. I’ll be anxious again, but for different reasons, but I’m going to see where it leads.

[Sindy_0311]

1 minute ago, Wiseman2 said:

I'm not seeing it. I'm seeing a person away on a trip sending a 'miss you' text.

I agree. I see nothing wrong with her text. it’s all going well… as expected at this stage. 

I think you are just searching a new issue to solve to nourish your anxiety and have something to overthink about. This is a granted way to not face your real issues.  

[Whirling D]

13 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

No, I do not see any "red flags" on her end. I see many on yours.

You are getting what you said you want and your reaction is to conclude she has "red flags", is "clingy" and is "codependent".

I have to conclude she only has value to you as long as she's unattainable. Once it's clear she's into you she's lost all of her value. 

if this is how you react to someone you wanted to like you actually liking you, I have nothing more to contribute. Because I don't believe you actually want what you've been claiming to want.

To answer your question, I lived alone hundreds of miles from family. And it was during the worst of the pandemic that I was in crisis. Still reached out for professional help because I didn't want to live with constant fear, anxiety and depression. I worked through previous bad experiences. So while I am of course still aware of and remember the bad things that happened I don't allow them to dictate my actions or consume my thoughts.

Of course I want what I have been suggesting. But is it OK for it to be hard for me? You say you don’t allow it to dictate your thoughts. If you have a magic wand, please lend it to me.

[Whirling D]

And for clarification, since I feel like constantly need to do this on here…

I never said she was clingy type or was dependent. I said that she might be, based on the things that she said.  
 

I also didn’t say that there was necessarily anything wrong with that. It just scares me. That’s me being honest with how I feel. It scares me. I am OK with that. I need to now figure why it scares me, and what to do about it. That’s proactive. Being reactive would be to immediately start doing things that would take me in the opposite direction. Other than writing what I’m thinking and feeling honestly on a forum, and truthfully, hearing snarky things back. Thanks but no thanks. 

[Batya33]

5 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

Of course I want what I have been suggesting. But is it OK for it to be hard for me? You say you don’t allow it to dictate your thoughts. If you have a magic wand, please lend it to me.

Hard is fine.  Feelings aren't facts.  Choose your reaction.  For me personally none of my major life goals - marriage, family, career -came easy to me.  The opposite.  Including really hard and often crippling feelings.  Including obstacles -external and self-created.  

[Whirling D]

7 minutes ago, Sindy_0311 said:

I agree. I see nothing wrong with her text. it’s all going well… as expected at this stage. 

I think you are just searching a new issue to solve to nourish your anxiety and have something to overthink about. This is a granted way to not face your real issues.  

So, then Sindy… in your world, what is the “right” way to face my real issues?  And in your armchair you can diagnose what my “real” issues are?

[Whirling D]

Just now, Batya33 said:

Hard is fine.  Feelings aren't facts.  Choose your reaction.  For me personally none of my major life goals - marriage, family, career -came easy to me.  The opposite.  Including really hard and often crippling feelings.  Including obstacles -external and self-created.  

Thank you, Bat. Perfect post, and almost exactly what I need to hear.

That’s pretty much exactly what I’m trying to do. Understand that what I feel isn’t necessarily real or a fact. That’s why I’m writing all of this, to try to make sense of why I feel what I do. It doesn’t mean I’m going to go out and set off a bomb.

you know, she was even a bit honest with me on our first real date, when she told me that she had been struggling a bit with her issue of trust.  she didn’t get into details, but it wouldn’t surprise me at all if she was feeling a tendency to run, or to self destruct, because she was feeling some of the same kind of thoughts that I was. I won’t know that is fact, but she was feeling something that she wasn’t feeling comfortable with, and if it had something to do with trust, it had to be fear-based, just like my feelings are regarding what I’m talking about now. 

[Batya33]

Just now, Whirling D said:

And for clarification, since I feel like constantly need to do this on here…

I never said she was clingy type or was dependent. I said that she might be, based on the things that she said.  
 

I also didn’t say that there was necessarily anything wrong with that. It just scares me. That’s me being honest with how I feel. It scares me. I am OK with that. I need to now figure why it scares me, and what to do about it. That’s proactive. Being reactive would be to immediately start doing things that would take me in the opposite direction. Other than writing what I’m thinking and feeling honestly on a forum, and truthfully, hearing snarky things back. Thanks but no thanks. 

Because it is calling the kettle black.  "Might be" is true of many first and early impressions with rare exception.  

In the 1990s I reacted to a man I'd just met at a party calling me a few days later (after one date after the party) and saying "how was your day honey?" with dread. That to me was a red flag -he didn't know me in any semblance well enough to use that way of greeting other than as a huge joke. He wasn't joking. 

I had one more date with him and that greeting was followed by incredibly clingy no backbone needy crap.  Including his proclamation that yes he'd suddenly realized that it wasn't good enough to be a physician's assistant and he'd be studying to apply for med school.  So yes I gave it a chance but that greeting was so incredibly out of bounds it was cringey.  And what followed was similarly cringey.

Extremes -sure. You've been hounding this woman with daily calls and texts and when she responds that while she's away she misses you and with a sweet comment like I hope you missme too all of a sudden it's alarm bells?? But -heaven forbid I criticize you photographing her in her vehicle 2 hours after you met and considering sending it to her etc that's out of bounds on my part.  Like others this doesn't add up to me in any healthful way.

[Whirling D]

Moving forward… She made the effort to lead the text frequency yesterday. Should I be doing the same thing today, and waiting for her lead?

would it be beneficial, if perhaps she felt a little invalidated by my response to her cutting back on sweet comment, to send her a nice “hope you have a nice day today!” Or a good morning text?

yes, I’m moving on from the old topic.