Reconciliation and Amends ~ Your experience please and thank you

[Seraphim]

3 minutes ago, Cherylyn said:

Thank you @Seraphim .  I'm actually NOT accepting perpetrators back into my life.  I'm working on no longer being so soft,  sweet and nice nor nostalgic which tends to cloud my judgement. 

Is anyone here nostalgic? 

I'm working on being more frosty and steely tough just like winter weather which is an adjustment because it's not my personality but I'm getting there! 

Not what I was suggesting at all which I think you know, but obviously you’re not ready to deal with being hurt and mad. 

[Cherylyn]

Just now, Seraphim said:

Not what I was suggesting at all which I think you know, but obviously you’re not ready to deal with being hurt and mad. 

@Seraphim   Thank you.  My way of dealing with hurt and anger is not be so nice and sweet with my personality.  In the past, I groveled despite not being at fault for the sake of recapturing nostalgia.  That was a huge mistake and I paid dearly for it.  I tend to be too forgiving to a fault which is something I'm working on.  I've noticed that people who are frosty and pragmatic in a positive sense,  are tougher and realistic because their brains trump their hearts.  I'm leaning in that direction as of late.  In the past, I took people back no matter the offense.   I'm in the process of changing my mindset to NO, they're not allowed to harm me again.  I will not run that risk.  Only a fool allows perpetrators back into their lives only for dangerous history to repeat itself.   

I realize that nostalgia doesn't have any bearing on sound decision making.  Innocent times were long ago and no more.  That's the harsh reality check.

[Seraphim]

I think I am talking to myself .,: lol. But I guess you will come to it in time hopefully sooner rather than later . 
 

[Coily]

It really seems as if you are not in any way ready for reconciliation. Which is your prerogative, but having such deep seated anger towards these people is only hurting yourself in the long run. In the case of your sister, this seems to revolve around how differently you view your late father. A good therapist would help you overcome your desire for your sister to hate him as much as you do. Her experiences and yours don't have to align, nor should they given the age difference. This reconciliation should be about moving forward, not who is right about what.

No need to harden your heart as Pharaoh did, as again only you will suffer. Getting tools to let go of this bitterness will help you and those you love, and make the barbs of those who offended you cause less harm. It's never about turning your heart to stone, it's accepting that you will be disappointed in others; but they aren't inherently vile.

 

[boltnrun]

"Hard", "frosty" and "tough" to me are not positive traits. It seems like someone who expects to be hurt and therefore has decided not to let anyone outside their immediate circle in. It's expecting the worst, which, frankly, would make me sad. 

I have met so many wonderful people. If I acted "frosty" or "tough" toward any newcomers I likely would never have met my amazing friends. I know they'll treat me well, they support me and we care about one another. Sincerely. But we wouldn't have that relationship if I'd acted "frosty" toward these caring and supportive people. 

[Cherylyn]

52 minutes ago, Coily said:

It really seems as if you are not in any way ready for reconciliation. Which is your prerogative, but having such deep seated anger towards these people is only hurting yourself in the long run. In the case of your sister, this seems to revolve around how differently you view your late father. A good therapist would help you overcome your desire for your sister to hate him as much as you do. Her experiences and yours don't have to align, nor should they given the age difference. This reconciliation should be about moving forward, not who is right about what.

No need to harden your heart as Pharaoh did, as again only you will suffer. Getting tools to let go of this bitterness will help you and those you love, and make the barbs of those who offended you cause less harm. It's never about turning your heart to stone, it's accepting that you will be disappointed in others; but they aren't inherently vile.

 

Thank you @Coily.  Reconciliation means I have to swallow my pride and I can't do that.  It boils down to why reconcile when I wasn't at fault?  Why should I grovel?  I've groveled in the past and discovered perpetrators never changed.  They were still the same.  The problem is I'm too nice and sweet.  I go soft on people and tend to give them numerous chances to make the new dynamic normal.  My expectations of others is too high and unrealistic.  I need to be more pragmatic which I'm working on. 

The problem with my sister calling me a liar is that it's the same as calling my mother a liar.  It's actually my mother and brother's fault because they've always protected her by never revealing the atrocities my father inflicted upon my mother such as his alcoholism,  his beatings to her,  punching her teeth out,  infidelity, chauvinism,  never paid child support,  leaving her with 3 kids and heavily in $450K debt.  (He was a chain smoker and always stunk!)  Miraculously,  she never filed for bankruptcy,  saved her house,  paid off all debts,  raised 3 children all by herself without help from anyone and was "Iron Woman."  My mother is made out of steel.  To this day,  my brother and mother refuse to tell my sister anything.  Hence, my sister accuses me of lying.  Where do you think all these stories came from?  From my mother!  My brother and I were eye witnesses as well. 

My brother-in-law (BIL), my sister's husband publicly and socially humiliates those who pay attention to his wife whether she's engaging in a conversation or if she were to compliment others.  He said some scathing remarks to my son after she complimented him.  He's downgraded my husband, other son and me.  He does this to his children or anyone.  No one is spared his wrath.  He interrupts her all the time.  If you were in his presence, you too are fair game and he would cut you to the core.  He's insanely jealous if he's not the center of attention.  My sister defends her husband because he's a very high income earner and she enjoys the affluent lifestyle he provides for her and their 3 children.  He wears the pants in the family.  He has full control.  He manipulates because money talks. 

My local in-laws and us (husband / sons / me) decline her party invitations.  She love bombs me to no avail.

My cousin's husband pulled the back of my bra strap twice.  My cousin told me her predatory husband did this to her mother,  stepmother,  our aunt, neighbor,  friends and niece.  I actually forgave him and reached out to my cousin after years of estrangement.  After we rekindled our cousin-ship, she went after my son and took advantage of him (not physically).  We had a heated argument and currently estranged.  I was thinking about reaching out to her but trust is dead. 

I need to stop being so nostalgic,  soft, nice, sweet and taking my cousin and her husband back into my life.   We were very close as children and into adulthood.  We drove long distances to visit each other several times a year and corresponded via postal mail weekly and monthly for many years.  We were morally supportive of one another via email.  I gave her so many monetary cash gifts, sewed quilts for her, gave her expensive shoes, clothes for her and her 2 children.  Then it all came crashing down after her vicious disregard for my motherhood by her exploiting my son of all people. 

I actually feel safer and protected in my safe haven bubble.  Certain mean people are not allowed in it. 

[Cherylyn]

9 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

"Hard", "frosty" and "tough" to me are not positive traits. It seems like someone who expects to be hurt and therefore has decided not to let anyone outside their immediate circle in. It's expecting the worst, which, frankly, would make me sad. 

I have met so many wonderful people. If I acted "frosty" or "tough" toward any newcomers I likely would never have met my amazing friends. I know they'll treat me well, they support me and we care about one another. Sincerely. But we wouldn't have that relationship if I'd acted "frosty" toward these caring and supportive people. 

Thank you @boltnrun.  I'm nice to people and newcomers because they're nice to me.  I'll knock myself out for others if they're kind to me and / or my family. 

I'm only frosty and tough towards those who were not good to me or my immediate family.

 

[Cherylyn]

This is what a divorce must feel like.  When the relationship (or friendship) no longer is working,  they part ways.  Or, if one person was wronged and the other person still never takes responsibility for what they've done,  it's over. 

I'm happily married with two sons in the suburbs.  It's a settled, very established, economically sound, clean life filled with love and respect.

I don't have experience with divorce,  fortunately. 

[Lambert]

4 hours ago, Cherylyn said:

Thank you @Lambert.  Turning the other cheek.  I've read that in the Bible too and even He enforced boundaries. 

Can I love Judas anyway?  I'm not that noble. 

I agree about staying true to yourself.  The problem with me is that I tend to get soft on perpetrators.  Nostalgia and remembering good,  innocent times clouds my judgment.  I can be too nice to a fault which is weakness as a do-gooder.  I need to be more strict by sticking to my principles and remain steadfast and unwavering.  This essentially means certain unforgivable behaviors are real,  permanent deal breakers.

I agree,  if you've lost all trust in a person,  the relationship is dead. 

 

I can love Judas... from a far. lol. he served his purpose and people who betray us, serve their's. It's a lesson and an opportunity. 

For me it's not always cut and dry. And like you I have been/ can be too forgiving, too easy going, too quick to let people slide. Not because of them, but because of me.  

I had a real problem being too nice at times.  I really wanted to be a person that understood and accepted people as they are and that's still true. but I know see that not everyone deserves acceptance. Especially when they act like an ass, can't control themselves and always expect others to just deal with it. 

Now I don't argue about it.  I don't explain.  people know what they do and I know myself well enough to know who and what type of people I want around me. 

I think knowing oneself solves a lot of this stuff. As does allowing people to own their own ***. humpty dumpy sat on a wall.  that was his fault.  lol. 

Give yourself permission to do less, too give less, to feel less. take that energy and put it the relationships that are working. 

Part of being successful is knowing when to stop and cut your loss,  so you don't keep losing. 

[catfeeder]

4 hours ago, Cherylyn said:

My cousin took advantage of my younger son (not physically). 

What was it that your cousin did to your son, and how old was he at the time?

[Cherylyn]

39 minutes ago, Lambert said:

I can love Judas... from a far. lol. he served his purpose and people who betray us, serve their's. It's a lesson and an opportunity. 

For me it's not always cut and dry. And like you I have been/ can be too forgiving, too easy going, too quick to let people slide. Not because of them, but because of me.  

I had a real problem being too nice at times.  I really wanted to be a person that understood and accepted people as they are and that's still true. but I know see that not everyone deserves acceptance. Especially when they act like an ass, can't control themselves and always expect others to just deal with it. 

Now I don't argue about it.  I don't explain.  people know what they do and I know myself well enough to know who and what type of people I want around me. 

I think knowing oneself solves a lot of this stuff. As does allowing people to own their own ***. humpty dumpy sat on a wall.  that was his fault.  lol. 

Give yourself permission to do less, too give less, to feel less. take that energy and put it the relationships that are working. 

Part of being successful is knowing when to stop and cut your loss,  so you don't keep losing. 

You're a better person than I am, @Lambert.  I can't love Judas.  I don't love those who've betrayed and deceived me even from afar. 

Yes, you can relate.  Thank you.  You too have been too nice,  too soft and forgiving.  You allowed past offenses to slide.  I agree,  it's your personality as it is mine.  I try really hard to see the good in people but when bad outweighs the good,  the bad cancels out any goodness. 

I should hope people know what they do despite never admitting it in a million years.  They get away with it whether it's you or me because we continue to give them permission to commit offenses by remaining in their lives.  Some people enforce boundaries if they can't avoid perpetrators.  I've done that.  However,  it's easier to eliminate troublemakers entirely.  

Yes,  people should own their ________.    Then again,  I've known a lot of people who are either in denial mode or twist it around on you by engaging in typical gaslighting tactics.   It's nothing I hadn't experienced before.

I agree to concentrate on joyous relationships that are working such as my blessed household with husband and sons as well as my local best friend from childhood whom I'm meeting this Friday for several hours.  She is my best friend ever since we were 9 years old and my maid-of-honor.  She brought home cooked dinners when I was a new mother twice or during times of tumult.  She's been extremely generous with her monetary cash gifts.   I've done the same for her.  My former colleague is my local,  close friend.  They are emotionally mature as are you.  Thank you. 

Yes,  do less,  give less otherwise I'll feel sorely disappointed and it's to be fair to myself. 

You're right about cutting your losses.

I imagine you would be the same as me had your sibling called you a bald faced liar despite horror stories relayed to courtesy of your mother.  For example, if your late father was a chain smoking alcoholic,  wife beater,  punched your mother's teeth out,  beat your mother in front of the children,  left blood stains on your carpet,  womanizer,  abruptly left with nary a good-bye to you and your siblings,  left your mother with 3 children to raise all by herself and left her with insurmountable $450K debts.  Then you observe your mother toiling 3 jobs 7 days a week to put food on the table.  You can only afford to wear frayed, pilled and tattered second hand clothes while ducking because you don't want your neighbors to see you as a passenger in your mother's jalopy.  

Your sister's husband verbally attacks you, your husband and sons and anyone for that matter.  No one is unscathed nor spared.  No apologies forthcoming in a million years and when you tell your sister, she gaslights you and defends her meal ticket because her husband is a very high income earner.  Money talks.  She's a "Stepford Wife."  Then she twists it around you by calling you a slanderous loose cannon regarding her husband, the cousin whom you share and your cousin's husband who sexually harasses women because just like your sister's husband, your cousin's husband is also insanely jealous and threatened if other women are in their wives' lives.  How sick is that?

Your cousin's predatory husband snaps the back of your bra strap not once but twice in one morning.  Then your cousin tells you that you should've taken a number because her husband did the same to your cousin's mother,  stepmother,  aunt,  friends,  neighbor and niece. 

Then your cousin goes after your son by exploiting him many times.  She invited your son for dinner many times under the guise of warm hospitality and for the sake of faaaaaamily.  The expectation is that someday your son should feel obliged and beholden to change your cousin's bedridden husband's diapers and spoon feed him his prune whip.  Your cousin tells you this.  Those years of dinners did not come for free.  Same sociopath tactic dispensed towards my cousin's neighbors and niece and her husband.  My husband said none of them will agree to be in caretaker mode so my cousin is in for a rude awakening in the future.

Then your cousin tells you that she heard screams during the middle of the night as her husband (who is afflicted with Epilepsy and Multiple Sclerosis) sat on his daughter's chest while wielding a kitchen knife.  I don't know if it's his potent Rx drugs,  his illness,  his sleepwalking or what it is? 

Nonetheless it's dangerous to be associated with weird, scary, mentally ill people. 

[Cherylyn]

13 minutes ago, catfeeder said:

What was it that your cousin did to your son, and how old was he at the time?

@catfeeder.  I need to backtrack.  My cousin's husband was diagnosed with Epilepsy and Multiple Sclerosis years ago and as his disease progressed,  life in her household had gone insane.  He is 10 years older than she is and he's aging fast.  She has been the sole breadwinner for many years and has 2 kids.  She said that she cannot afford an around-the-clock caregiver when her husband becomes immobile and wheelchair bound.  Minimum full time caregiver cost is $15,000 per month. 

Her scheming is to love bomb by cooking meals for neighbors,  her husband's niece,  her husband and for a while my son of all people.  Dinner guests are CONSTANT as in every weekend!  Would you go through the trouble inviting your neighbor and her husband to a home cooked dinner in your home every weekend throughout the year for years?  Can you imagine yourself doing this? 

She's a sociopath.  Those meals and favors are not free.  Someday, these guests will feel beholden and obliged to "help" with caregiver duties for her ailing, autoimmune disordered husband whether it's to bathe him,  change his diapers or feed him his prune whip.  That's her plan.  She even told me so.  She told me she doesn't do all this unless there's a need and benefit for her.  My husband said that these people will not be amenable to volunteer as free caregivers and my cousin will be in for a rude awakening.  Her plotting will backfire. 

I yanked my son out of there.  It was my mother who gave me the heads up.  God bless her.  She is the one who saved her grandson's hide.  My mother was suspicious of her niece's overzealous behavior because overzealous people always want something in return.  Their so-called warm hospitality and generosity has a price.  There is a "you owe me" expectation in return in the future.  Her sick "help each other" scheme will fail.  

I told my son about what his aunt's husband did to me and he was so disgusted that he too is estranged from them.  He also discovered he was set up so he knew it was time to bow out.  He sensed there were strings attached.   

I'm so sick 'n tired of mentally ill people. 

[boltnrun]

Your multiple paragraph, extremely long posts about your sister, her husband and your cousin seethe with fury. Are you sure you don't want to release that fury in a therapeutic setting with a compassionate professional?

[Cherylyn]

12 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

Your multiple paragraph, extremely long posts about your sister, her husband and your cousin seethe with fury. Are you sure you don't want to release that fury in a therapeutic setting with a compassionate professional?

Thank you @boltnrun.  Yes, I'm sure. 

Also, there's my cousin's husband who snapped the back of my bra strap not once but twice in one morning on the day we treated her and her husband to brunch.  And, there are 14 other sexually harassed victims including my cousin's mother, stepmother, aunt, friends, neighbor and niece.  And, she exploited my son which was the last straw.

[Lambert]

@Cherylyn

I'm sorry for how horrible these people are. I would get away from them and not look back.  I owe no one for the sake of family.  Especially a grown man that snaps bra straps..  what the actual heck? i would have had to kick him in the balls, slap him or dump a drink on him.  there's no mistaking that for anything other than what it is. I would in no way tolerate this.  

It does hurt when you're cousin or sister don't take up for you or try to make you the bad guy.  I go through this with my own sister.  My tactic has become- distance and only reach out on a need to communicate basis for the sake of my parents. 

When I decided to do less and never expect anything even remotely normal behavior from them,  it got better. 

She's out of touch and that's her.  Whatever.  I speak to her like a colleague- small talk. I never ask her any questions.  I don't encourage anything but I am polite and respond.

I feel like the lesson in these experiences is to remind me to focus on myself, what I want and how I protect myself. And my reward for that?  love my life... warts and all.  I'm enjoying myself. 

And ps... thank you but I'm no better than anyone else.  I just care less. lol

[Cherylyn]

4 hours ago, Lambert said:

@Cherylyn

I'm sorry for how horrible these people are. I would get away from them and not look back.  I owe no one for the sake of family.  Especially a grown man that snaps bra straps..  what the actual heck? i would have had to kick him in the balls, slap him or dump a drink on him.  there's no mistaking that for anything other than what it is. I would in no way tolerate this.  

It does hurt when you're cousin or sister don't take up for you or try to make you the bad guy.  I go through this with my own sister.  My tactic has become- distance and only reach out on a need to communicate basis for the sake of my parents. 

When I decided to do less and never expect anything even remotely normal behavior from them,  it got better. 

She's out of touch and that's her.  Whatever.  I speak to her like a colleague- small talk. I never ask her any questions.  I don't encourage anything but I am polite and respond.

I feel like the lesson in these experiences is to remind me to focus on myself, what I want and how I protect myself. And my reward for that?  love my life... warts and all.  I'm enjoying myself. 

And ps... thank you but I'm no better than anyone else.  I just care less. lol

Thank you @Lambert.  Thank you for your kind words.  It is very appreciated.  Yes, the twice back of the bra strap snapping.  It was infuriating.  I didn't think anyone would believe me years ago.  In hindsight,  I should've said something right then and there.  My cousin and husband were in the next room only several feet away.  In my mind,  I thought estrangement was the answer so that's the route I took from that morning on.  My cousin's husband snapped the back of my bra strap after my husband and I treated them to brunch that morning.  Then fast forward many years later.  I confronted my cousin about this incident and lo and behold, she revealed that 14 other women were sexually harassed such as her mother,  stepmother,  friends,  neighbor,  niece and an aunt whom we share.  Our aunt adamantly told my cousin never to bring her husband should my cousin visit her.  When I told my husband about the bra strap snapping,  he said he never wanted to see my cousin nor her husband again for the rest of his life because he was beyond disgusted.  And, my husband went out for coffee with the guy!  My husband said he never wants to go out for coffee with him ever again either.  I agree, in hindsight,  I should've kicked my cousin's husband and made a ruckus.  I didn't know what to do at the time.

When I told my sister about our cousin's husband's bra strap snapping,  she called me a slanderous loose cannon.  When I told my sister about her husband's mouth problem towards my husband, sons, my brother and me, again, she called me a liar.  I received the same liar comments after I revealed the atrocities my father inflicted upon my suffering mother.  (Punching my mother's teeth out, etc.)  Stories came from my mother and to this day, my mother has to spend a lot of money fixing her teeth courtesy of my late father.  My late father loosened her other teeth so all of them had to be extracted and she's currently waiting for her empty gums to heal in order to have dental implants this summer.  My brother and I were eye witnesses to the beatings and blood stains were permanently stained on our living room carpet while we grew up.  My mother and brother "protected" my younger sister by never revealing the truth to her.  To this day,  they refuse to reveal the truth to my sister.  Instead of calling my mother or brother a liar,  I am the scapegoat. 

You went through something similar with your sister.  I'm sorry for your pain.  It's such an insulting offense on all counts.  They are who they are. 

I agree with you.  Similar to you, I've been doing nil for my sister.  My local in-laws and us (husband / sons / me) continue to decline my sister's house party invitations and my mother's restaurant rendezvous co-mingling with my in-laws, my sister's family, my mother, brother and us invitations.  My sister broke up the family.  Everyone disbanded and scattered to the four winds. 

I told my brother that I've decided to have separate relationships.  For example, every month,  I'll drive to my local mother's house and provide her with dinners,  clothes and household items.  She likes it and it works.  It makes her happy.  None of us have to be grouped nor lumped together. 

I've left my sister and her family out of the equation.  I was extremely generous with my time, labor and resources to my sister and family years ago.  This gravy train has since come to a screeching halt.  She's feeling it, too.  She put herself in a dilemma.  I'm rather enjoying the new shift in power so I'll run with it.  She gave me ammunition on a silver platter.

As for my cousin and her husband,  my cousin continues working like a dog as the sole breadwinner because her ailing husband was diagnosed with Epilepsy and Multiple Sclerosis (MS) years ago.  They have two kids.  I can't feel too sorry for them though.  Their home life is chaotic,  my cousin and her husband engage in frequent heated, violent arguments and her marriage is in shambles.  My cousin was happily married to her first husband,  had an affair with her current husband and karma is a _______. 

I like your attitude of caring less.  Thank you @Lambert.  You are a gem!  🥰

It's best to avoid and eliminate weird,  abnormal,  strange and mentally ill people from your life.  I've noticed that normal,  content people prefer to only associate with normal,  gracious,  kind people in their lives. 

[Lambert]

3 hours ago, Cherylyn said:

It's best to avoid and eliminate weird,  abnormal,  strange and mentally ill people from your life.  I've noticed that normal,  content people prefer to only associate with normal,  gracious,  kind people in their lives. 

ain't that the truth! 

People who don't have these problems. It's not because it didn't ever happen. They just got away from the craziness.

I bet your mom loves your visits.  I am like you.  I do everything I can for my loved ones. I put all my effort into those that show me the same courtesy and respect. And I whole heartedly accept some people just aren't right. They are simply not on my frequency. they are a joke that is over their head. 

hang in there.  It's a process for sure. 

[Cherylyn]

16 minutes ago, Lambert said:

ain't that the truth! 

People who don't have these problems. It's not because it didn't ever happen. They just got away from the craziness.

I bet your mom loves your visits.  I am like you.  I do everything I can for my loved ones. I put all my effort into those that show me the same courtesy and respect. And I whole heartedly accept some people just aren't right. They are simply not on my frequency. they are a joke that is over their head. 

hang in there.  It's a process for sure. 

@Lambert Thank you.  You must be my long lost twin! 🥰 😍  You and I think and write alike which is refreshing!  You possess very high emotional intelligence which is commendable. 

Yes,  it's a process to be sure and quite the learning curve.  People don't change.  All control and change is within a person in order to alter the trajectory. 

You're loving for what you do for your loved ones.  I agree,  only do for those who sincerely appreciate you.  Anyone else is trash! 

Chin up to you, too! 

[Lambert]

14 hours ago, Cherylyn said:

@Lambert Thank you.  You must be my long lost twin! 🥰 😍  You and I think and write alike which is refreshing!  You possess very high emotional intelligence which is commendable. 

Yes,  it's a process to be sure and quite the learning curve.  People don't change.  All control and change is within a person in order to alter the trajectory. 

You're loving for what you do for your loved ones.  I agree,  only do for those who sincerely appreciate you.  Anyone else is trash! 

Chin up to you, too! 

thanks @Cherylyn

I only wish I would have figured this all out a long time ago! lol but c'est la vie! ❤️ 

[Cherylyn]

5 hours ago, Lambert said:

thanks @Cherylyn

I only wish I would have figured this all out a long time ago! lol but c'est la vie! ❤️ 

@Lambert Learning the hard way is the best way albeit the painful way! 

You get it, sister!  🥰 ❤️