The social interaction paradox. We cant live them, but we cant live without em.

[Jimmy ape]

I grew up with more friends than I could count. We played sports, traded sports cards, and it was an epic and happy childhood for the most part (when I wasnt fighting with my parents). As I got older friends slowly started dropping like flies. In my early twenties I cared about it. Now Im in my early 40s and people have repeatedly shown themselves to be so unbelievably awful, selfish, deceiving, and betraying that I find myself wanting to cut off contact from almost everyone except my family. I understand that plenty of people in all walks of life have good and meaningful friendships with others without feeling this way. All this being said, I have not been the epitome of an angel my entire life either. But I am loyal kind and generous and I feel these are traits severely lacking. It is indeed a paradox that even those that become misanthropic and see humanity for what it really is, seemingly still need other people to feel normal and not depressed. We are social animals at our core. That marriage or long term relationship with a partner that many in the world get to and enjoy has been elusive for me. I would like to learn how to just be happy alone but knowing myself, Im not sure this is possible. Thus we are left with the paradox, people are unbelievably awful but yet be still need to have them in our lives. 

[Cherylyn]

I can relate @Jimmy ape.  I have various people in my life especially in person friends such as local family, extended family, in-laws and friends.  In this case, I'm not including social media friends.  I refer to people whom I see locally throughout the year.  

There are all sorts of people in my sphere.  Each person has a different role in my life.  If I don't like particular traits in some people whom I've aforementioned, their roles are limited in my life which means I deliberately limit contact to either the minimum to nil.  Then when we see each other, we're civil but definitely not chummy.  I know how to keep a safe distance.  With some people, we're estranged because I've hit a wall and it's the only way to guarantee my safety and protection from harm.

Other people in various categories of approval are closer to me because I let them have the privilege to have more access to me regarding my time and attention and other times energy, labor and resources.  They've earned it so they're rewarded accordingly. 

Then there are those who are very, very close to me because they're virtuous and very near and dear to my heart.  They're very special indeed.  I treat them very well because they've been extremely loyal to me.

I agree, we need others but you don't have to take them in large doses and you can have all sorts of boundaries with certain individuals.  Rapport is cordial and it works if you're socially skillful and learn to adapt to each personality you approve of and disdainful personalities.  Categorize each person by character and what position or rank they have in your life. 

I'm no longer disappointed in people because I've since lowered my expectations of others.  I expect the worst in others and if I'm pleasantly surprised by any commendable behavior, then it's refreshing and welcome.  When I expect the worst in people, there is no shock factor whatsoever.  I feel "blah" regarding people in general.  I never over invest emotionally in others.  I feel numb.

Treat each person individually with various dynamics of your choosing.  You control the friendship in your favor. 

I focus on my own career, life, concentrate and taking care of my health and my immediate family.  Once in a while, good social life is interspersed somewhere time permitting.  I'm just as busy as everyone else.  I don't focus on other people as much as I had done in the past because they're not expending the same focus on me.  Therefore, I return the favor by doing likewise.   Make sure friendships are equal, fair and balanced. 

If people are extra good to you, then reciprocate.  If they do the bare minimum for you or less than that to keep the friendship afloat, follow their cue and copy them.  Follow other people's signals and let that be your navigation guide. 

 

[mylolita]

Morning Jimmy!

 

I’m so sorry you feel this way. Truth be told, everyone’s felt this way at one point or another.

 

You can go one of two ways I always think - become jaded, suspicious and expect the worst, some call it “realistic”, or, you can take the positive attitude that the world isn’t all bad, there are still great people out there, and most people have phenomenal good within them, they just might not click with you on a personality trait level.

 

With old school friends, people grow, change. Their lives go in all kinds of twists. The five childhood friends who stay blood brothers and sisters until they are themselves all on their death bed is a beautiful, novelistic notion - lil’ ol’ romantic me likes to keep alive that somewhere, it’s happening, of course - but the daily realistic facts are people change and you will drift apart, fall out, clash, or just become indifferent. People get caught up in their immediate worlds, this is also very common. Family affairs, spouses, work, health issues, financial problems. Lots of things take peoples attention away from their friends, and even family. 
 

A very old man once told me, while he sipped a pint in a pub, “You’re lucky to have one true friend in this life. Anymore are cherries on top.”

 

It is a rare, beautiful thing! A lot of people count their wife or husband as their best friend, some are lucky to have others as well as their spouses and children.  
 

What I’m trying to say is, as hard as it is, and I have been through similar feelings myself OP, my conclusion is, you can’t let it dampen your spirit and you can’t give up on people! 
 

When I meet someone, personally, I presume the best and go from there. If someone does me wrong, then okay, but I try to see the good in most people and as I have come into my thirties (I’m 33, married with 3 children), I also try to reserve judgement of others until I have been around them enough. Of course we quick fire judge instinctively, that can’t be helped, but I try not let it rule me, or I try to reserve judgement or criticism and give that person time. I would like the same done for me, I would appreciate the same curtesy, so I try to keep that attitude with anyone new in my life.

 

You have to be open to new experiences, and that includes people, to find people you click with or - fall in love with! If we stay inside a negative shell, we curl inwards and well, no one new can reach us then! 
 

As hard as this world can be, it can also be the most beautiful place. One minute can change your whole life. I believe that. We must be grateful for what we have, and if you don’t like something, if it makes you unhappy, move towards changing it!

 

So your old circle is gone, you feel lonely - this is unfortunately very common! It sounds like you need new experiences, a flurry of new people! It’s a numbers game. You are definitely not going to like or click with everyone you meet. People will disappoint you, it’s very true. But strength is expecting that but carrying on anyway! You’ll get there! It might take along time, you might meet someone really worth while tomorrow! If you put yourself out there (groups, activities, attending a gig, attending a class, social meets, speed dating, accepting extended family invitations to events, learning a new skill, joining the gym or an exercise class, volunteer work, book club, etc etc) you might be pleasantly surprised!

 

I wish you luck, I really do.

 

I am in the same position. All older friends left behind, our lives have moved too far apart. New town, new house. I felt drained and disappointed in people a few months ago. I’ve just met some fantastic people these past two months and my world is full of social events and great conversations that feel meaningful to me! You have to hunt to catch something!

 

All the best,

 

x

[Batya33]

I'm sorry you had such awful experiences -I'm musing but I wonder -for those of us who didn't have such awesome childhood/teenage experiences with friends - but later on did -maybe because of our own growth, other people maturing, or simply having stuff in common -for example for those who didn't fit in with the popular crowd but wanted to, those who fell in with a drinking crowd but it was a bad fit -etc -later on the "popularity" seems like immature high school stuff and later on the person gets involved in more activities, interests, volunteer work and starts to meet likeminded people. 

Or honestly some people are awkward looking as kids (wow I was) or klutzy and grow up and become more attractive, confident etc so they attract different people -people better for them?

So for those people -are there expectations different given the childhoold experiences and/or do they appreciate it more? 

Sometimes I have to check myself too.  During covid I started a texting/calling friendship with a woman who lives 10 miles from me and we know many people in common including through our mom FB group.

Her kids live in my neighborhood -blocks away.  The main reason during the pandemic we didn't meet was because of the pandemic.  Even when we made a plan to meet outside there were times she was exposed to covid and/or couldn't make it/stormy weather. 

But we stayed in touch and actually had a deepening friendship.  About 6 months ago I noticed she was distant -not staying in touch, and her texts were distant.  I was sad about it.  We actually had a phone call -and for the first time it was awkward/forced and she made some excuse about having to go -not mean -just -distant.

I was upset at this point and practically wrote her off -we have a weekly "have a great weekend!" text we send each other for fun on Fridays and I would reply to those but I stopped reaching out. 

About a month later she resurfaced -meaning - nice texts, asking about me, wanting to plan one of our long phone calls (yes we have to plan given our schedules and we do).  It was night and day.  Back to normal and has been the last month or so.  I made the kind of tough decision not to talk with her about that couple of months.  I know she has medical issues that scare her, her kids go through stuff, and her marriage is so solid but I think her husband has had some medical issues.  I decided -she probably had stuff going on, she wasn't mean -she just was distant and I'll keep an eye on future behavior and maybe at some point she'll share more with me about what's going on. 

But if I'd been a relatively jaded/cynical/bitter person my choice might have been different. I like her - we will meet at some point I'm sure - and I'm so glad I didn't write her off completely because she's a person I can see being friends with -and closer friends with -in the future. And yes I've been completely ghosted in other situations but my mindset is not yours so I still give people a chance.  I'm 56 and have a number of close friends I've known for 40 years plus.  (We live far from each other though).  

[Andrina]

Believe me, I've often been disappointed by those I thought once cared, but later actions showed otherwise.

Perhaps to satisfy the social animal part of you, plan activities where you can have discussions or interact with a group without the goal of forming a friendship. If you happen to have a great vibe with someone great. If not, just the temporary interaction will be satisfying in itself. I am in a book critique group, where we critique each other's novels. I really have no desire to hang out with these women outside of those meetings, but I thoroughly enjoy our discussions about our shared hobby, and it meets one of my social needs.

You could join a book discussion group. Join any number of Meetup.com groups where people meet for kayaking, hiking, bicycling, etc. Take a dance class with a group dance to follow. Take an oil or watercolor painting class. I've done all of those things and didn't make any friends, and that really wasn't my goal, anyway. But it filled my time with fun things and the temporary interactions with others were always pleasant.

Good luck.

[Cherylyn]

I prefer remaining realistic even when I won't always give people the benefit of the doubt because I know what human nature is based upon encountering and experiencing so many different characters from all walks of life.  Actually, being wary, jaded, cynical, suspicious and distrustful has saved me many a time.  Using my gut and intuition kept me safe for many years.  Being naive proved to be disastrous back in the day.  I tread lightly.  I make people earn their way into my life.  If they behave consistently well with habitual respect, grace and consideration in mind, by all means, I'm all in.  I will reciprocate and respond in kind.  If they treat me as if I'm not that important in their eyes, I do likewise and go my own way.  It works and it's fair.

I agree with others.  Try joining groups within your community.  Meet Ups, local church if you're faith based, charities, volunteering, sports, hobby type groups, intellectual groups if you're so inclined, special interests, excursion groups, etc.  Your possibilities are limitless.  I've met a lot of very nice friends at my nearby church. 

My closest friends are from childhood, former colleagues and former neighbors from several houses ago.  Fortunately, they're all local and we're not on FB nor do social media.  We're in person friends.  We were in each others bridal parties and go way back.  They brought homemade meals to my house after I brought my newborn sons home from the hospital and we're super close. 

I've outgrown previous friendships though.  Not every friend was meant to remain in one's lifetime.  Some of us drifted apart.  There were no feelings of ill will.  It just happened.  Some friends moved faraway and it happens.  No harm, no foul.  I've gained friends along the way as well so it evened out. 

[Cherylyn]

20 hours ago, Jimmy ape said:

I grew up with more friends than I could count. We played sports, traded sports cards, and it was an epic and happy childhood for the most part (when I was'nt fighting with my parents). As I got older friends slowly started dropping like flies. In my early twenties I cared about it. Now I'm in my early 40s and people have repeatedly shown themselves to be so unbelievably awful, selfish, deceiving, and betraying that I find myself wanting to cut off contact from almost everyone except my family. I understand that plenty of people in all walks of life have good and meaningful friendships with others without feeling this way. All this being said, I have not been the epitome of an angel my entire life either. But I am loyal kind and generous and I feel these are traits severely lacking. It is indeed a paradox that even those that become misanthropic and see humanity for what it really is, seemingly still need other people to feel normal and not depressed. We are social animals at our core. That marriage or long term relationship with a partner that many in the world get to and enjoy has been elusive for me. I would like to learn how to just be happy alone but knowing myself, I'm not sure this is possible. Thus we are left with the paradox, people are unbelievably awful but yet be still need to have them in our lives. 

I've had a lot of friends during childhood but then again, I was carefree, unemployed, lived at home for free and had a lot of time and energy for friends.  I still have friends now that I'm married with family and employed even though it's a juggling act to squeeze in time for friends.  It's still doable and fortunately, my friends are local. 

I too had / have friends who were kind and also had friends act friendly yet what came out of their mouths told me otherwise.  I still cross paths with them if they're completely unavoidable but I continue to maintain a safe, frosty distance for my own protection's sake.  

Some people are very unkind and rude.  For example, I crocheted a baby blanket for a neighbor's great-granddaughter a few years ago and upon receipt, instead of thanking me, she asked me:  "Did you PAY your mother to crochet this blanket for my great-granddaughter?" 

I made stew-soup for this neighbor and her husband instead of exchanging traditional baked goods during Christmastime.  Instead of thanking me, she said to me: "I made your soup taste better for my husband."  To this day, I wave to this neighbor whenever we're coming or going out of our driveways but do I respect and admire her?  No.  Do I trust her to speak properly?  No, due to negative experiences with her.

With my other neighbor, when I was expecting baby boy #2, she never said, "Congratulations."  Instead of congratulating me, she asked, "Was this pregnancy an accident?"  Then when my second son was born, she nor her husband ever said, "Congratulations" nor gave a gift despite my giving them home cooked dinners after their parents died, birthday gifts for their sons, invited them over to my house for dinner, backyard barbecues, etc.  Note my other neighbor several houses away brought a baby gift which was very kind and considerate and another neighbor brought a baby gift and  home cooked dinner which was a godsend.  The neighbors who took action to acknowledge the birth of my newborn son with home cooked dinners and baby gifts speak properly and graciously. 

While standing on her driveway recently,  the neighbor who never said, "Congratulations," never gave a baby gift nor reciprocated any kindness told me recently that she will become a grandmother soon.  I told her that I was very excited for her.  Her son and DIL (daughter-in-law) are local.  At first, I thought about crocheting a baby blanket for her grandson or granddaughter but then bad memories came flooding back into the deep recesses of my brain.  Suddenly, I remembered that this particular neighbor never congratulated me when I brought my newborn son from the hospital, never brought a baby gift nor dinner despite my doing a lot for her family in the past.  I also remember her asking me if my newborn son was an accident instead of congratulating me.  I decided against giving her a gift for her grandchild due to vivid, hurtful memories.  I've since thought the better of it.  I don't invest in people if they dared to be unkind to me in the past.  Sure, I can be civil but I won't be more than civil at best.  I wave 'hello' if I'm outside but that's my limit.  People only deserve to be treated well if they've earned it.  What goes around,  comes around. 

I only need genuine "salt of the earth" (noblest) people / friends in my life.  I've painstakingly chosen them and weeded out all the bad apples.  Everyone else can get lost for all I care. 

[Wiseman2]

On 2/10/2023 at 10:20 PM, Jimmy ape said:

That marriage or long term relationship with a partner that many in the world get to and enjoy has been elusive for me 

It seems like you could benefit from making new friends who you respect and care about. Try to avoid protracted cyber relationships.

Join some groups and clubs, volunteer, get involved in sports and fitness, take some classes and courses. Make some positive changes to your well-being. 

Broaden your social horizons, not just to be around people and make friends, but to help with the social withdrawal and possibly meet women in person.

Get a good profile and pics on quality dating apps. Try to be a bit more upbeat. Start talking to and meeting local women in person.

 

[catfeeder]

This was probably incremental for me, but maybe it's helpful. Somewhere along the line I stopped internalizing behaviors of others. I just don't tend to view their problems as my own, so I don't view their behaviors as a reflection on me.

Maybe I'll be surprised or disappointed, but I rarely make it a life altering issue. I don't keep score on who contacts or who initiates or whatever. If someone proves flakey, I won't make plans with them, but we can phone chat or enjoy our paths crossing, or they can mention they're free and I might let them stop by if that works for me.

But I don't hold expectations. Maybe I'm lazy, or maybe I'm innately laissez faire, but I've just allowed people to flow in-and-out of my life without burning bridges or forcing confrontations or projecting stuff onto an outcome.

So I don't tend to get butt-hurt enough to turn cynical or carry a chip. I can live with OR without a given person, and where one might be absent, another is present, so it all just tends to work out fine. I love them each, whether they're in front of me or not, and often, long gone friends will tend to cycle back in at some point.

Head high, and consider relaxing about this. It might open you up to friendships without stress or fear because you can just enjoy whoever is in front of you at any given moment. It might grow into longevity, it might not, and either is OK.

 

[Jimmy ape]

Catfeeder I feel like you are wise.

[Cherylyn]

5 hours ago, catfeeder said:

This was probably incremental for me, but maybe it's helpful. Somewhere along the line I stopped internalizing behaviors of others. I just don't tend to view their problems as my own, so I don't view their behaviors as a reflection on me.

Maybe I'll be surprised or disappointed, but I rarely make it a life altering issue. I don't keep score on who contacts or who initiates or whatever. If someone proves flakey, I won't make plans with them, but we can phone chat or enjoy our paths crossing, or they can mention they're free and I might let them stop by if that works for me.

But I don't hold expectations. Maybe I'm lazy, or maybe I'm innately laissez faire, but I've just allowed people to flow in-and-out of my life without burning bridges or forcing confrontations or projecting stuff onto an outcome.

So I don't tend to get butt-hurt enough to turn cynical or carry a chip. I can live with OR without a given person, and where one might be absent, another is present, so it all just tends to work out fine. I love them each, whether they're in front of me or not, and often, long gone friends will tend to cycle back in at some point.

Head high, and consider relaxing about this. It might open you up to friendships without stress or fear because you can just enjoy whoever is in front of you at any given moment. It might grow into longevity, it might not, and either is OK.

 

@catfeederHere's my take:

I need to be reminiscent of my brother and mother!  They don't over invest in people.  They keep their dialogue with others as strictly acquaintances on a superficial, brief chit chat level.  No more,  no less.  They keep people at arm's length.   It works very well for them.   No one gets hurt this way.  They practice good diplomacy.  They're not on social media either.  Their conversations are merely light 'n polite and expectations are nil.  They are never surprised nor disappointed because they don't create an opportunity for negative outcomes in the first place.  I've since taken careful notes from observing them through the years and emulating them daily as I incorporate their lead into my own daily habits.  I must say, it does work successfully.  No harm,  no foul.

The problem with me (and my husband can attest to this) was, I did too much for others by showering them with hand sewn gifts (quilts, potholders, aprons, oven mitts, trivets), home cooked dinners, spent money on their online or store bought gifts, cared for them during their tumult, helped like a workhorse for their parties, brought a ton of delicious home cooked food to their homes, dropped everything for them, went above and beyond only to be sorely disappointed when not thanked nor reciprocated.  I've always knocked myself out for others at a very frenetic pace.  Even my husband said that I "over love and over care."  I've always thought that I should do for others as I would've loved for them to do for me.  How wrong I was. 

I don't want to feel disappointed nor hurt anymore so I don't do anything anymore.  If the other person is nice, I'm nice.  If they do something for me, I'll reciprocate.  If they don't do anything for me and have their limits, I do likewise with my limits as well.  If they enjoy phone chats, I'm all in.  If they're uninterested in me, then I prefer to get busy by shopping online for myself! 

I truly feel that friendships need to be balanced and fair otherwise it feels unequal where one person is doing all the giving of their time, labor, energy and resources while the other person has no qualms doing all the repetitive taking for years.  It gets old real fast.  Unfortunately, when a person is very kind and generous, people like this tend to get taken advantage of and taken for granted.  Hence,  I follow other people's cues and it makes friendships very peaceful, realistic and satisfying.  It's nothing personal.  It helps to become unemotional and more pragmatic nowadays.  It works for me. 

My only regret is I didn't practice this new habit sooner.  I could've saved myself a lot of time and money.  Better late than never.  🙂