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Male coworker and personal space.


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I work remotely in a tech environment. Most contact with my team happens either in chats or Zoom. We're a very friendly group, and socialize all the time. Have our own private chat for nonsense, and during quiet hours will jump on a call together to keep each other company. 

The newest member of our team is a really outgoing guy, fit in with our madness really easily. I got along with him immediately due to similar senses of humor. At least online. When we finally met in person for the first time...not so much. He was very standoffish with me and I guessed maybe we just didn't get on as well as I'd thought. I AM a bit shy face-to-face so that probably added to it. 

We continued to have our banter in chats and calls, and then last weekend we met for the third time. Our team went to an arcade/bar on an outing, and at first he started more or less the same. I was a bit more relaxed, so I made a bit more of an effort to speak with him, and he would respond but nothing more. OK, fine. I went off with another coworker to play some games. 

It's important to note now that the rest of us are very tactile. We've just known each other for so long that an arm will easily go around each other, we'll hug, etc. Him not so much. Again he's new so maybe he's not there yet, or maybe he's not touchy. However, the longer we stayed there the more I noticed him in my space. It started with looming/watching over my shoulder as I played something. Then brushing/being shoulder-to-shoulder as we were all talking. Sure, it was a bar and got crowded quickly, but it started to seem more and more deliberate. At one point four of us were sitting at a table and he fully had his legs spread, crotch on display, one foot against my chair on the outside. Like I had to step over it to get to the bathroom. 

I know alcohol can be a factor in some of these things, so just left it alone. Maybe he didn't notice he was doing it or didn't see the harm. Though I AM worried it might give the wrong impression to the rest of our team. 

Leaving, I may have also made things more awkward. He walked me to the door as he was going for a smoke. I turned to say bye, to find him leaning on the wall, hands in pockets, looking me over. At least he had the decency to stop as soon as I caught him but, not knowing what to do, I offered a hug. I guess I could have used that to ask *** he was doing, but just didn't know how to react. 

Do you think the above is enough to call him out on? Or am I thinking too much into it? I like him well enough as a person, so I'll definitely take it up with him before anything else, but I'm just not sure how to handle it. Should I wait for more before reacting?

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34 minutes ago, zomboidcharm said:

Do you think the above is enough to call him out on?

Call him out for what? Manspreading? Leaning outside over the wall with hands in his pockets when its winter?

Unless he is really innapropriate toward you personally(verbally or physically), really dont see the need to do anything. 

Tech guys can be weird by default. Lots of them dont get enough social contact. Would maybe more contribute to that. But again "weird" and "offensive" are sometimes two different things. 

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Sorry I don't think I was clear on the points I was having trouble with. 

- It's not the manspreading. He is pretty tall so I understand the need to stretch after being on your feet for a while. I just don't need to be between your legs/manspread away from me.

- It's not the leaning. It's the taking a gander at my ass when my back is turned. 

I've been in this industry for a while, and I do agree that there are awkward people. I'd count myself among them. But even coworkers I've known a long time don't do these things (that I know of)

He's an attractive enough guy, but I'm don't consider us close enough friends yet to be ok with proximity. And since he's a coworker I'd prefer if he was a bit more aware of his movements. I don't find it especially offensive, so "calling out" might be a harsh way of putting it, but I do think those two parts were impolite.

I suppose it would also be a bit more casual if he actually talked to me, too? Silence probably makes it more awkward. Like when I was playing one game and he was hovering over my shoulder I tried to say something to him and he just grunted back...

The hug was definitely a stupid move, too. He just looked a bit guilty when I caught him

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I think you've chosen to blur the work/personal lines which can be loads of fun/chummy and also have downsides with coworkers who then treat it as all personal -like if he just met you at a bar.  Do you supervise him? Or he, you? I think he was responding to you flirting with him -or you gave that impression - and then seeing you be touchy/feely with coworkers so he figured it was ok to be blatant about his sexual attraction to you.  If this happened in the workplace I'd have a different opinion.

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I personally think you are reading too much into this. 

I'm not making a judgment on him or in general whether this is "right" or "wrong", but realistically, if you're an attractive person and you go out drinking with the opposite gender, chances are someone is going to "check you out".   I mean, do you even know for SURE that no one else on the team has and you simply haven't caught them doing it?  Unless someone is being wildly inappropriate with this, and you said he stopped, I don't really see a huge problem with it. 

You can't control how socially aware HE is, and in all honesty- if you are pretty touchy feely with everyone else, he's probably going to read that as you being someone who is okay with close proximity in general.  Honestly, I would read it that way in his shoes. And if you said nothing, how would he would know you only warm up to people like that after some time?  After all, he can't read your mind.  You can't expect people to behave how you would "prefer" if you are silent and exhibiting the opposite of your "preference". 

I'm wondering if the reason you are reading so much into this very casual behavior is because you have a crush on him OR you are worried that he has a crush on YOU.  

If his behavior changes and you are concerned for your safety, that's one thing.  But from what you wrote, it just sounds like an awkward guy trying to fit in and was causally checking out a woman after drinking.  Nothing to worry about. 

 

 

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You're reading way too much into it and seeing issues where there really aren't any. 

If anything, he might find your behaviour off-putting since you are the one who offered to hug him for some reason. You have no more reason to call him out than he has to call you out. 

Do you like him? 

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I guess I don't know if other guys on the team were doing such things and I didn't catch them yet. And I understand saying he might see me being cozy with them and think it's ok from him. All I can do is go by the way they (all the guys) are with the other women. I've never seen one of them looking at any of us in a particular way. Even after a few drinks. And he was actually with one of the other girls for a while playing games. With a reasonable distance between them, laughing and talking normally. 

IDK maybe I should have been more assertive about him being too close in the beginning. I definitely don't find him threatening (yet). Just if he's getting the wrong sort of impressions that is exactly what I DONT need. I also just wouldn't want to hurt him tbh

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10 minutes ago, zomboidcharm said:

I guess I don't know if other guys on the team were doing such things and I didn't catch them yet. And I understand saying he might see me being cozy with them and think it's ok from him. All I can do is go by the way they (all the guys) are with the other women. I've never seen one of them looking at any of us in a particular way. Even after a few drinks. And he was actually with one of the other girls for a while playing games. With a reasonable distance between them, laughing and talking normally. 

IDK maybe I should have been more assertive about him being too close in the beginning. I definitely don't find him threatening (yet). Just if he's getting the wrong sort of impressions that is exactly what I DONT need. I also just wouldn't want to hurt him tbh

So that's the thing. Since you choose to blur the lines and he sees this you don't get to dictate what's normal in the blurred lines and what is not.  In a professional environment at the office staring like that would be crossing lines/inappropriate maybe even harassing. In a personal environment that is not a work-sponsored event it's really splitting hairs to say that it's ok for you to be all touchy-feely with your coworkers including at work and then to say that he should know that the line is drawn at staring at your body. 

How should he know that especially since you're so touchy/feely/chummy.  You're on thin ice with all of these men because even though people who choose to drink choose the consequences going from touchy/feely but not staring to touching you -oops -on your private part -or oops staring instead of just normal eye contact -it's all on the same spectrum IMO. 

As opposed to if you keep it professional in the office especially with respect to touching and hugging, etc then it's much clearer to the average person than crossing the line from banter/flirtatious/touchy to full on come thither, woman!

You're getting tons of benefits from being so in sync and chummy with coworkers -I originally met my husband at work - but this is the downside and I don't think it's fair to judge him at all in this blurry gray area you're part of and you happily participate in.  

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4 hours ago, zomboidcharm said:

It's important to note now that the rest of us are very tactile.  Him not so much. Again he's new so maybe he's not there 

It seems like he's still trying to work out how to fit in with regard to body language, personal space, etc.

He doesn't seem creepy or lecherous. Try to use your own positioning to assert your personal space. There's nothing to "call him out on", as if he's deliberately being overbearing.

As you mentioned, he's new and your team is friendly and "touchy feely", and you approached him quite a bit. So he seems to be trying to read the room, fit in and relaxing a bit.

There's no reason to make him feel like a lecherous creep by "calling him out" if it's crowded, he's sitting with the group.

When he was outside, it's you who hugged him. Just lay back on confusing flirtatious behavior and create your personal space as you see fit.

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6 minutes ago, zomboidcharm said:

So you don't think it warrants attention? Or that it just doesn't warrant attention right now/keep an eye on it?

Again, none of the other guys have been like this, even on first meeting. So this is new territory. 

Honestly, and please understand I'm not judging you, but you are the one giving a mixed/confusing signal by hugging him, then also being upset that he "checked you out"? He hasn't done anything "suspicious" in the circumstances, but your actions are confusing. 

Are you sure you don't like him?  You could have simply said goodnight and walked away.  You say you didn't know "what to do", but why was your gut response to get closer to him?  It doesn't make sense.  Perhaps you are this upset because you are in denial?  Just a thought.   But, as Wiseman so wisely said- if you don't want his attention, stop flirting and keep your behavior in and out of the office professional.  Also, I think you should be careful about being touchy feely with everyone you work with.  Be friendly, but reduce/eliminate physical contact.  If you don't want lines blurred, it's up to you to SET that expectation.  You can't expect one person to read your mind if your general physical behavior suggests different expectations than the ones in your head. 

Also want to add- Chances are exceptionally high that you and your female co-workers have been "checked out" before, and you just didn't notice.  This guy just wasn't subtle about it.  So I think it's pretty unfair to put the other guys on this pedestal and to assume this new guy is a creep.  NOTE- I say this as a woman that has on numerous occasions been oblivious to guys "checking me out". 

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We all hug hello/goodbye. As I said I definitely consider it a bad idea in hindsight, but meant as a "buddy hug" just like I'd do with the others. I panicked. 

To be honest, I don't even want to think about liking him. That's not on my agenda right now. He's a nice guy but that would be far too weird for me. 

I guess I'll try to create some distance with him. I know the people I can be comfortable with but for now if he's confused I'll give him the space to deal with that. Again, he doesn't seem like a physical person so it makes sense that seeing everyone being so familiar could be confusing for him. 

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I wouldn't have hugged him otherwise he'll continue to intrude your space in the future and expect more random hugs from you.  Don't set a precedence. 

Don't react.  I wouldn't call him out on it.  Everything is YOUR control from now on.  You are the one who has to alter your trajectory with  him.  Change course.  Follow his or everyone's cue online regarding banter or appropriate camaraderie.  Then when you see him in person, while remaining well mannered and polite, avoid him because he's weird and creepy.  Stay physically away from him.  Make sure your radar is up.  Beware.  Don't make yourself vulnerable by being too close to him otherwise he'll take advantage by doing something inappropriate to you again.  Prevent uncomfortable and awkward scenarios in the first place by knowing how to protect yourself ALWAYS.  Never let your guard down.

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4 hours ago, zomboidcharm said:

Again, he doesn't seem like a physical person so it makes sense that seeing everyone being so familiar could be confusing for him. 

Why is it any of your business whether he is a physical person? Maybe he is with his friends, or significant other.  But not at work.  He is your colleague not your date, not even a friend.  Also none of your business if he is confused other than if it has to do with his work and then you help a person who is confused if it's your job to do so or if you want to help -for a work related reason.  I once crossed the line with a colleague because I was naive. 

He was engaged and traveled to our offices on business once a month or so and stayed at a hotel.  We were friendly coworkers and he was a little flirtatious but not over the top and no touching or anything.  I had taped Seinfeld -yes this was the 90s -and he asked if he could stop by and watch it with me at my place -I lived alone.  I figured since he was engaged and a coworker sure why not.  That day he told me he was bringing an overnight bag "just in case". 

So I wised up and realized and canceled the plan.  I felt stupid and actually a little offended until I realized my invitation made it sound like I'd be up for hooking up (yes he is still married to her -we are FB connected).  

I think you're confusing yourself some and again you benefit a lot from the friendly touchy feely atmosphere at work but this can quickly get very concerning if you start venturing into the territory you seem to be.

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15 hours ago, Batya33 said:

Why is it any of your business whether he is a physical person? Maybe he is with his friends, or significant other.  But not at work.  He is your colleague not your date, not even a friend.  Also none of your business if he is confused other than if it has to do with his work and then you help a person who is confused if it's your job to do so or if you want to help -for a work related reason.  I once crossed the line with a colleague because I was naive. 

....

I think you're confusing yourself some and again you benefit a lot from the friendly touchy feely atmosphere at work but this can quickly get very concerning if you start venturing into the territory you seem to be.

It's not my business. My point is that it's noticeable that until now, he hasn't been familiar with anyone. And it's not like we're all running around groping each other - like I described: an arm around each other, touch on the arm, hugging when greeting/leaving. We're all european/latin american so when you know people well enough none of that is unusual. 

And if he's getting confused about my intentions that IS my business. Absolutely. I'm not allowing someone to make me uncomfortable when I'm trying to relax.

15 hours ago, boltnrun said:

Did he have his legs wrapped around you? Did he place you between his legs? 

Not wrapped around. I would've 100% reacted to that. Legs either side of me so yes, I ended up sitting between them. Like < - 

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5 minutes ago, zomboidcharm said:

And if he's getting confused about my intentions that IS my business. Absolutely. I'm not allowing someone to make me uncomfortable when I'm trying to relax.

But you probably were making him uncomfortable in being overly familiar with a coworker.  He didn't know how to respond given your behavior and actions. 

"We continued to have our banter in chats and calls"

" I was a bit more relaxed, so I made a bit more of an effort to speak with him, and he would respond but nothing more. OK, fine."

"I turned to say bye, to find him leaning on the wall, hands in pockets, looking me over. At least he had the decency to stop as soon as I caught him but, not knowing what to do, I offered a hug. I guess I could have used that to ask *** he was doing, but just didn't know how to react." 

So - after he didn't respond to you in your attempts in person - and after seeing him look you over - you choose to offer a hug.  It's really not fair to him.  First you say you're uncomfortable with him checking you out and the way you respond to being uncomfortable is to offer to get even closer to him physically?? How is offering a hug "trying to relax" and how is that him making you uncomfortable at that moment -and how is he supposed to realize he was "making you uncomfortable" if you offered to hug him at a bar while he's checking you out?? Is it his fault you all of a sudden didn't know what to do and chose to get physically close to him with a hug?

That doesn't sound relaxing for him.

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