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I don't know what this is.


Anaiss
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8 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I mean sure anyone who had that dismal view of men would do so.  And women -who are these women you speak of who "hunt alpha males" and are women actually looking for a person of character and integrity to marry/be with long term? I don't know -sounds like you're making up these negative generalizations and getting really defensive.

Of course you should date Samuel if you feel like it - he seems like a good person and you enjoy being with him.  He seems to enjoy dating you too.  For me personally there is no way if I was looking for long term in my 30s that I would have told myself "at least he's not an alpha male on the prowl" because in my 30s I wanted a husband/didn't want to settle/genuinely liked and respected many men/was mostly treated with respect and like a lady during the 24 years I dated and was in relationships including serious relationships/always had close platonic male friends.  I'd never have thought of men and women as you do and I tried my best to treat people as individuals.  Some individuals acted like jerks and some women were "gold diggers" and some men cheated and some women chased alpha males.  Because some people do lots of stuff.

In my 30s when I was looking for a husband I'd not have wanted to invest the time in a "too empathetic" man who hadn't asked a woman out till age 37 for the reasons he gave and who after 5 months was flinching/distant when it came to physical affection or sexual affection.  I simply wouldn't have wanted to waste my few fertility years on that risky situation or risked the heartache.  All relationships and dating take risks -in this situation I personally would have balanced the risks and benefits and moved on. 

I am very open to all sorts of lifestyles and always have been.  Grew up for my first 43 years in very diverse communities/major city/ including with respect to sexual orientation.

When it comes to who I chose to date with serious potential I went with my personal values, standards, and goals.  I am heterosexual and I wanted to marry someone heterosexual who wanted marriage and family.  I could be friends with someone asexual, bisexual, someone who was into porn, someone who had never dated and was in their 30s and I would have been close friends if we had stuff in common and respected their lifestyle choices, sexual orientation, etc --- but not dated them.  I have close friends who are gay, asexual, bisexual, married, single, domestic partners, with kids nad without. That's not discrimination at all.  That's simply choosing to date who you have stuff in common with.  

But you and I are starting from different mindsets as I wrote above so from your perspective you're avoiding animalistic male prowlers so it's worth it to take the risk of being with a man who so far doesn't want to be with you sexually or at least not enough so that he can't help but keep his distance/flinch, etc. after 5 months. It's your time to spend and he seems like a good and nice person and someone you enjoy dating - good luck!!

 

I'm not looking for a husband, or children.  I'm looking for a loving relationship with a person I find attractive and who is first and foremost my friend.  We may not get married, I'm not worried about that, that comes later if at all.  I've never been the kind of person that feels 'I have to be married by X age or else it's the end of my life' and I most certainly have little care for the 'biological clock'.  I have had enough experiences with guys that are only interested in sex.  

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1 minute ago, Batya33 said:

Sounds like a pleasant evening and sounds like you're comfortable with taking the lead and reassuring him that you like him and helping him with the insecurities he mentioned.  That was thoughtful of him to make dinner and invite you to stay over.

Well no, I don't mind taking the lead.  But last night he also kissed me first.  So...

As to reassuring him with his 'insecurities' I don't see him having insecurities, I see him as maybe being just oblivious and knowing that not wanting to be a creep so he holds back until he's certain.  I find that admirable compared to a guy that can't read a woman's signals and still intends on pestering her....  If anything his reticence shows a level of self-awareness and care for others that I think is attractive.  Does that mean I don't think he has confidence issues, no.  But those confidence issues are funneled through a idea of care and concern for others, not just abject fear of rejection.  Maybe that makes him broken and incapable of rehabilitation...but maybe it just requires a bit of patience and understanding.  

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Just now, Anaiss said:

 

I'm not looking for a husband, or children.  I'm looking for a loving relationship with a person I find attractive and who is first and foremost my friend.  We may not get married, I'm not worried about that, that comes later if at all.  I've never been the kind of person that feels 'I have to be married by X age or else it's the end of my life' and I most certainly have little care for the 'biological clock'.  I have had enough experiences with guys that are only interested in sex.  

I'm so sorry you've had so many experiences with guys just interested in sex -I fortunately screened those men out so early on that it didn't affect my view of "men."

For me I never saw sex and friendship as separate - I never had casual sex so when I dated men the friendship and romance were inextricably intertwined -no first and foremost needed because by the time we had sex with only one exception in my life we were in love, exclusive and with serious potential for marriage.  It's odd that you say first and foremost friendship and yet you're kinda pushing hard to have your dating arrangement progress sexually.  It's good he invited you to stay over -he took the initiative and good that you shared a bed and neither felt pressured to have sex -you sound pleased with that.

I wasn't desperate to be married at all. I wouldn't have settled for any reason. I know of many women who are very concerned in their 30s about the biological clock as I was (egg freezing was not a viable option back then) - but know of few who were desperate to be married and would have settled.

Didn't believe I would be at the "end of my life" without marriage.  I wanted marriage and family for all the right reasons but started from the perspective of a positive view of men in general and didn't get into situations that might trigger jadedness about those individual men who wanted to use women for sex just like certain women use men for sex. 

It's good you know yourself so well and don't want marriage or children as any sort of priority-that does take away timing pressure for sure!

Oh ok -so hopefully S is looking for the same.

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1 minute ago, Anaiss said:

Well no, I don't mind taking the lead.  But last night he also kissed me first.  So...

As to reassuring him with his 'insecurities' I don't see him having insecurities, I see him as maybe being just oblivious and knowing that not wanting to be a creep so he holds back until he's certain.  I find that admirable compared to a guy that can't read a woman's signals and still intends on pestering her....  If anything his reticence shows a level of self-awareness and care for others that I think is attractive.  Does that mean I don't think he has confidence issues, no.  But those confidence issues are funneled through a idea of care and concern for others, not just abject fear of rejection.  Maybe that makes him broken and incapable of rehabilitation...but maybe it just requires a bit of patience and understanding.  

Yes, I see it differently and obviously I'm a stranger to this.  From all you wrote I don't buy for a minute that he's just trying not to be a creep or that he's doing this altruistically or out of caring for others -not with his extreme behavior in this regard. That might be a minor part of it but I respectfully disagree that is what motivates him/makes him tick.

Having said that, It's great that you admire him -that's so important in a developing relationship -it's your perspective that counts and it sounds like you're happy he kissed you first and invited you to stay!  Sounds like you see this as being patient and understanding, you're not in any hurry to have kids -you two might be a great match -enjoy!

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3 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I'm so sorry you've had so many experiences with guys just interested in sex -I fortunately screened those men out so early on that it didn't affect my view of "men."

For me I never saw sex and friendship as separate - I never had casual sex so when I dated men the friendship and romance were inextricably intertwined -no first and foremost needed because by the time we had sex with only one exception in my life we were in love, exclusive and with serious potential for marriage.  It's odd that you say first and foremost friendship and yet you're kinda pushing hard to have your dating arrangement progress sexually.  It's good he invited you to stay over -he took the initiative and good that you shared a bed and neither felt pressured to have sex -you sound pleased with that.

I wasn't desperate to be married at all. I wouldn't have settled for any reason. I know of many women who are very concerned in their 30s about the biological clock as I was (egg freezing was not a viable option back then) - but know of few who were desperate to be married and would have settled.

Didn't believe I would be at the "end of my life" without marriage.  I wanted marriage and family for all the right reasons but started from the perspective of a positive view of men in general and didn't get into situations that might trigger jadedness about those individual men who wanted to use women for sex just like certain women use men for sex. 

It's good you know yourself so well and don't want marriage or children as any sort of priority-that does take away timing pressure for sure!

Oh ok -so hopefully S is looking for the same.

 

I think sex can be disentangled from romance, and friendship.  Sex is sex, you can use it as a more complicated masturbatory tool or you can have a more fulfilling experience with a committed partner who wishes to learn about you and that you find emotional support in.  When I was younger I had sex not infrequently, some one night stands and other relationships that were largely just because the guy was hot and tolerable, but as I got older I definitely found I desired more from said encounters and I found the kind of guys I was meeting at bars or on online apps just...gross, and I have occasionally thought some nicer guys were more nice, than they were.  My demisexual boyfriend really made me appreciate the specialness of being with someone who truly loves you as a friend first, and who you can just be with.  I see a lot of the same in Samuel, which is probably why I got kinda 'pushy' about the intimacy thing, as I see in him someone I really want to be with and I won't lie it's been a while since I've had a really fulfilling experience with someone else.  I'd never force him to do anything.  If we had had dinner, and played games and he'd not wanted to do anything I'd have been disappointed yes, but now that I understand him a little more I wouldn't have been hurt.  People deserve to be...themselves for the most part.  I should apologize to him for being so pushy and intrusive, though I suspect he would never tell me I was.

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42 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Yes, I see it differently and obviously I'm a stranger to this.  From all you wrote I don't buy for a minute that he's just trying not to be a creep or that he's doing this altruistically or out of caring for others -not with his extreme behavior in this regard. That might be a minor part of it but I respectfully disagree that is what motivates him/makes him tick.

Having said that, It's great that you admire him -that's so important in a developing relationship -it's your perspective that counts and it sounds like you're happy he kissed you first and invited you to stay!  Sounds like you see this as being patient and understanding, you're not in any hurry to have kids -you two might be a great match -enjoy!

 

Oh he's got problems, he's not perfect.  I think as demonstrated he does have confidence issues, but who doesn't nowadays, it seems like the ones that are confident nowadays are the ones ruining everything...in their confidence.  But I suppose how else is he meant to be more confident if not given the opportunity to learn and feel more comfortable and thus more confident...I understand not wanting to 'teach someone' or having to go through the whole 'training process' but some people for better or worse just aren't lucky enough to meet the right people, or be in the right environment to meet people when it is 'acceptable to be inexperienced' and then they get these hangups about not being experienced which only exacerbates their lack of confidence.  I can afford to give him a little faith that he's not going to spiral into the darkness, he has shown me no proclivity towards that, or at least no more proclivity towards it than anyone else I've dated.    

I've met and been with too many guys that were very confident in their appeal and capabilities and who saw any criticism of either to be derogatory.  I've also been with really sweet guys that just don't work out for logistical reasons or because we were at different parts of our lives or wanted different things.  I nearly married a guy, but I don't want kids, and he very much was wanting to be a father.  

Samuel isn't confident in the way I think most people consider confident.  Last night he was very I guess what you'd call confident, he joked and was a lot more open with me.  I'd like to think our conversation earlier that day gave him a firmer footing of where we were in relation to one another, he definitely seemed far more comfortable with me last night than he has in the past.  He was far less flinchy and far less seriously apologetic than he normally is. 

I think he's very confident in places he feels comfortable in.  Which I suspect is very logical in a way.  But where I suppose more 'attractively personable' guys are confident regardless, he's not.  He holds back, and keeps to himself and maybe he's overly careful and I think he's thoughtful but again maybe he overthinks things.  But I've never experienced him lashing out in frustration or anger, or anything else.  If he does those things he does them out of view and out of sight...and never gives any hint that he has after the fact.  I think I've only ever seen him angry once, frustrated, uncomfortable, annoyed yes, angry no.  He had a car accident a couple months (it wasn't his fault a tanker truck backed up on him at a gas station, he was unhurt but his car was...not) after I met him and before we really started dating and he just got mad at the insurance companies as they dithered...but even his anger wasn't like a white-hot flash, but more of a simmering burn.  I remember him just getting short with a person on the phone after they had juggled him across five or six different service callers, even in his anger he was always trying to be kind to the receiver assuring them he wasn't mad at them personally....it was the kindest rage I've ever seen...to be honest.   

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Well I think you don't actually have much, if anything to lose by continuing to date "Samuel" and see where it goes. Really it's not too much different to starting any relationship and continuing it to see if you're compatible in the long run. The only difference is I guess after five months you'd likely already had sex with a guy who was experienced. 

I think if two people really like each other, the sex is just something that can get better with practice. And really even someone sexually experienced may need to learn what each new partner likes in bed because not everyone is the same.

I have actually dated a guy a couple of years ago who was 30 and had never dated or had sex before. Surprisingly once we did have sex, he was actually totally fine at it. He was good at kissing as well. But after dating him for 2.5 months I realised we actually had nothing in common and he was also really immature in various ways. I just felt we didn't have much emotional connection so I ended it. But how I felt actually had nothing to do with sex because he was fine in that way. In terms of why that guy never dated was because he was basically a hermit who had just stayed at home and played video games his whole life. He had jobs but they were jobs where mostly men work, like in IT and assembling computers.

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On 1/22/2023 at 3:26 PM, Jaunty said:

I think he's asexual and has not ever put the label on himself ... because he just exists basically in a world without sexuality included in it.

I mean it wouldn't be a surprise but I'm unwilling to foist such a proclamation onto him.  I mean I don't know if he has a world without sexuality, because he's just at times very intensely private.  

 

He sent me a sweet text this morning, telling me he really looked forward to seeing me this weekend, which this isn't the first time he's said such a thing to me.  But usually he says that when we're having a conversation or something.  This time he just sent me a text and that said, 'I really had fun and enjoyed being with you this weekend, and I hope to have fun and be with you more this weekend, I look forward to seeing you soon, 'Samuel'. Which I always chuckle at, because  it's a text dude, I know who sent it, you don't have to sign it, but he always does....and I don't know, I think it's cute and quaint.  

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I just want to say this was a very interesting post to read.  It's interesting to me that all men and women are different and don't all fit neatly into stereotypical boxes.    I enjoyed watching the 40 Year Old Virgin movie for the same reason.  It takes some real patience to be with a late bloomer.    I had a friend in high school that had his first girlfriend and first kiss at age 21.  There was plenty of opportunity to make fun of him for it, but I held back and feel good that I never stooped that low.
 

I think for cripplingly shy men, the effect of being a late bloomer can have a cumulative effect on their confidence.  The more years go by, the more difficult it is to get comfortable with being intimate and next thing you know they are in their late 30's and faced with ridicule and low self-esteem that it's hard to break from.

So OP and Samuel....I hope you find love together... at your pace.

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I was my husband's first kiss and he was 20 years old 🤷‍♀️ However, he was all about kissing and more once the first kiss happened. It wasn't that he hadn't wanted to, wasn't interested or just never thought about kissing, women and sex. He just hadn't had an opportunity. After that first kiss we were all over each other! And I didn't have to wait weeks or months or try to convince him in any way.

I understand there are some people who are perfectly content with "cuddling", hand holding, hugging and kisses on the cheek. I am not one of them. I would not be compatible with someone who never or seldom wanted sex or who had to be talked into it. I have left relationships that lacked sex. 

If you never had sex with Samuel (and never will) would you stay in the relationship?

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On 1/23/2023 at 3:48 PM, Anaiss said:

I mean it wouldn't be a surprise but I'm unwilling to foist such a proclamation onto him.

I'm not suggesting that you foist any proclamation whatsoever on the guy.  Your thread is entitled "I don't know what this is."  I just gave you my take on what it is.

My go-to advice on these boards is for the person to proceed with what is actually happening in real life; NOT with what is happening in their own head.  What you have here is a man who behaves as if he is not interested in having a physically intimate relationship with you.  It's up to you whether you want to try to get this to be different,  accept things as they are, or cut bait.

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As you have had a bit of an ice breaker moment with "Sam" I think if you want to progress further with him you need to turn up the allure a bit. You have the favorite dress that makes you feel sexy? Wear it next time you go over. If he's willing to be more intimate touch and caress him an a sexual manner. I've heard that for some mutual masturbation is an ice breaker. All this said with the caveat that you two wish to have sex.

Some men especially now days need to be encouraged that being sexual with a loving partner is good. For some men in this day and age they are bombarded with a lot of negative messages about being sexual with a willing partner. Their natural shyness becomes exacerbated, and you end up with men who get signs and refuse to see them for safety sake.

Also being a virgin at his age, he has tons of very bad preconceptions about sex. That he's inadequate etc, that's one heck of a burden for you both to unpack. But having that opening discussion and escalating things over time is the best course.

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I am just reading typed words -huge disclaimer - but the last few posts she's given examples of how sweet he is and thoughtful -those posts are almost gushy.  Based on context and how this thread started I get the strong sense she's now trying to prove -especially to herself -that he is "all that" and therefore worth the risk that his willingness to show romantic interest in her, or sexual interest, may simply not be there now or ever.  Or at least not to the extent that would fulfil her in a romantic relationship.  

Or I  could be wrong and she has turned a corner and now is totally enamored by him such that whatever sexual "issues" there may be now or in the future simply do not matter to her.  That of course can happen too.

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57 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I am just reading typed words -huge disclaimer - but the last few posts she's given examples of how sweet he is and thoughtful -those posts are almost gushy. 

Yes.  I am very very VERY well schooled about how "cute," "quaint," "sweet," etc. that OP finds all of this.   And now I know that they had a relationship with a "demisexual" person which was wonderful.  So, it appears that this kind of thing will work just fine.  Carry on.  

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12 hours ago, Batya33 said:

I am just reading typed words -huge disclaimer - but the last few posts she's given examples of how sweet he is and thoughtful -those posts are almost gushy.  Based on context and how this thread started I get the strong sense she's now trying to prove -especially to herself -that he is "all that" and therefore worth the risk that his willingness to show romantic interest in her, or sexual interest, may simply not be there now or ever.  Or at least not to the extent that would fulfil her in a romantic relationship.  

Or I  could be wrong and she has turned a corner and now is totally enamored by him such that whatever sexual "issues" there may be now or in the future simply do not matter to her.  That of course can happen too.

The thing is though that it's difficult to say if someone is actually asexual or demisexual or whatever other sexuality when they've never actually had sex. He probably is a very shy and seemingly awkward man. I mean, the fact that he thought romantically pursuing people would be bothersome to them seems to point to some kind of big lack of self confidence and social awkwardness. I also think it's more difficult for shy men to find women because they're expected to be the ones to chase women.

He does like her romantically because he contacts her all the time and takes her on really nice dates. He's affectionate towards her as well like hugging and holding hands. So it seems the romantic interest is there. Just hard to know what he's thinking in his head in terms of sexual attraction and desire.

My advice if she really likes him would be to give him a chance. She can start initiating intimate things and just see how things progress from there. If he's responsive to it and they actually start having sex then that issue can actually be resolved. Other than that it seems that she really enjoys his company and likes him as a person. So the lack of intimacy was the only problem.

It has already been five months though so it just depends how long she wants to keep giving it a chance. Like for example if nothing much happens sexually in the next few months either then she may want to reconsider this relationship. I mean, if this guy actually wants sex then he needs to just bite the bullet. He's not going to get any experience if he just keeps putting it off out of fear or whatever else.

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3 hours ago, Tinydance said:

The thing is though that it's difficult to say if someone is actually asexual or demisexual or whatever other sexuality when they've never actually had sex. He probably is a very shy and seemingly awkward man. I mean, the fact that he thought romantically pursuing people would be bothersome to them seems to point to some kind of big lack of self confidence and social awkwardness. I also think it's more difficult for shy men to find women because they're expected to be the ones to chase women.

He does like her romantically because he contacts her all the time and takes her on really nice dates. He's affectionate towards her as well like hugging and holding hands. So it seems the romantic interest is there. Just hard to know what he's thinking in his head in terms of sexual attraction and desire.

My advice if she really likes him would be to give him a chance. She can start initiating intimate things and just see how things progress from there. If he's responsive to it and they actually start having sex then that issue can actually be resolved. Other than that it seems that she really enjoys his company and likes him as a person. So the lack of intimacy was the only problem.

It has already been five months though so it just depends how long she wants to keep giving it a chance. Like for example if nothing much happens sexually in the next few months either then she may want to reconsider this relationship. I mean, if this guy actually wants sex then he needs to just bite the bullet. He's not going to get any experience if he just keeps putting it off out of fear or whatever else.

Very interesting insights and I'm not sure what it has to do with what I wrote.  What I wrote had nothing to do with his sexual orientation in particular just noticed her recent posts getting kind of gushy about his behavior post-conversation and shared my observations.

I don't agree that a person needs to have sex to test whether they are asexual or not or demisexual (not sure what that means-not really relevant other than she revealed in her posts that she has dated someone who is, I think).  

On your point I personally would never ever advise someone to have sex to get sexual experience.  Unless they wanted to.  I thought about doing just that as a teenager with my high school sweetheart -like why not -just do it (he wasn't pressuring me, I was just really curious) and thank god I listened to my mother's sage advice and didn't. 

I think it could be extremely harmful for her boyfriend to have sex just to get experience since he's share so many complicated emotions about the whole dating/romance/sex subject.  He can choose to get therapy to work with a professional who can help guide him through any complicated feelings he might have including whether perhaps he's just not that into her even though he assumes he is.  The act of sex before he's ready is likely going to make it more complicated than less and could make him feel really bad about himself if he has sex to "test".

I think the issue will be resolved if she accepts that this is who he is (and her positive posts seem to be along that path) and lets him share with her when he is comfortable.  He knows 100% that she is ready, she's already come on to him physically and I think she should leave the ball in his court and if she chooses not to wait longer she can stop dating him.

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On 1/21/2023 at 1:57 AM, Anaiss said:

I don't know what this is

You seem quite smitten with him and it's going well so you don't really have to figure out what "this" is. You can just enjoy each other and the journey letting things evolve in their own time.

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5 hours ago, Tinydance said:

The thing is though that it's difficult to say if someone is actually asexual or demisexual or whatever other sexuality when they've never actually had sex.

I disagree.  People know who they desire and have sexual urges for.  Many people come out as gay or lesbian or say they absolutely knew and never had sex or were sexual.  Everyone I knew -including me -had sexual urges and sexual desires long before actually having sex.  I was 24 for my first time because I waited till I was in love and ready (I had had sexual contact just not intercourse).  I knew I wanted intercourse.  I knew I was straight, I knew who I desired and had urges for, I knew all of this.

  I didn't have any need to confirm by actually having intercourse, just like I knew that I shouldn't have casual sex even though I was curious because I knew my sexual urges didn't outweigh my values and emotional makeup that would be very harmed by casual sex.  

I have and had many friends who realized they were gay or asexual later in life and before they had sex -as far as being gay -and in the asexual -the person had been married and had two sexual partners and hooked up with a number of other men and a few women and came to the realization she was asexual.  She did not have to test this by trying to be sexual with yet another person.  She discovered this a couple of years after her last relationship (which included lots of intercourse) ended.

And I know that having sex as some sort of test especially in this situation is a bad idea.  OK I don't know -it's my strong opinion and I would caution anyone against following the advice to test their orientation or anything by engaging in sexual intercourse with another person if that is the main or only motive.

I think he finds her attractive and is romantically attracted to her.  I think he likes planning time with her and going on dates with her.  Whether they are compatible for anything serious remains to be seen.  Not just because of her wanting to have sex with him and him not trying to or being ready to have sex with her -I think that's a minor issue in this situation.  

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On 1/22/2023 at 11:11 AM, Anaiss said:

Well no, I don't mind taking the lead.  But last night he also kissed me first.  So...

As to reassuring him with his 'insecurities' I don't see him having insecurities, I see him as maybe being just oblivious and knowing that not wanting to be a creep so he holds back until he's certain.  I find that admirable compared to a guy that can't read a woman's signals and still intends on pestering her....  If anything his reticence shows a level of self-awareness and care for others that I think is attractive.  Does that mean I don't think he has confidence issues, no.  But those confidence issues are funneled through a idea of care and concern for others, not just abject fear of rejection.  Maybe that makes him broken and incapable of rehabilitation...but maybe it just requires a bit of patience and understanding.  

Re-reading this, I remain firm in my thinking that he is very shy and cautious. I am really thinking this has less to do with his sexuality, and more about the baggage that he thinks comes from sex. By that the risks of sleeping with a co-worker, the understandable paranoia some men have about false accusations later, the whole kaleidoscope for feelings he's heard about after sex, and well you get the point. He has built up these narratives and cautions  without experience to break through the barriers. For a sensitive guy who is dating shy, that's a huge barrier; especially when he "doesn't know what he's doing."

It sounds like OP, you are willing to take the patience and loving care needed. Now he may be non-sexual in the end, or he may turn out to have a super high drive that was suppressed. As a guy who was days away from turning 30 before I was no longer a virgin, I can really sympathize with him. I was all sorts of concerned that I'd disappoint her, that I wouldn't know what to do etc. It really put the brakes on my intimacy with the women I was dating, it also left a few confused and very angry that I wasn't just humping them at the drop of a hint. All it took was one very caring and patient woman who reassured me before, during and after. After that.... well let's just say I found my drive is pretty dang average.

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We had lunch together earlier this week.  So I did kind of ask if there was really no history, excusing it by saying 'my friend thinks it's a little incredulous'.  He just sort of smiled and laughed and said 'well, I'm not dating your friend, and if I were, then they'd have to just be incredulous'. He asked if I had a problem with it.  And I said not really, I was just curious how it happened...  

He basically said 'one day at a time'.  He didn't go out of his way to be a virgin until his late thirties.  He just never met anyone that he felt comfortable being himself with.  He's a nerd and into classic science fiction and science and things, before he started working in the library his first real desired job path was in biology and wildlife ecology but he became disillusioned in wildlife ecology he transitioned into the field he currently works in largely because he'd taken an information technology minor. 

I asked him if ever had crushes or anything and he gave me this weird 'duh' look.  And said of course he did but there was never the opportunity to do anything about them, because the girl was already in a relationship or he did try and she declined.  He said the few times when he would go out with them on a date, or just hang out in a larger group he'd realize that she didn't share any of his interests.  He said that in college he was pretty much just go to class, go to work study, go home kinda person.  He didn't party, he didn't drink, he kinda avoided large social things, and he just found that a lot of times what girls he met were either attached to someone else, or he didn't feel he could be himself around them because if he started talking about stuff that really interested him, he said they'd just sort of zone out, and that after a few of the above encounters he just decided it wasn't worth it.  "I just don't like the idea of being that weird nerd guy that just pesters girls, so I don't", he said. He'd basically rather be by himself than be with someone who can't appreciate the same things he does in so far as he can't stand people just not being able to nerd out with him on stuff, and that he never really had a good model on how to be with someone or how to transition towards a more intimate relationship, his parents weren't that helpful, he was vaguely uncomfortable with how his friends claimed it worked, and he said 'I didn't want to be Urkel or Screech and just wear someone down'.   

He said the reason he goes out with me is because we both like watching old sci-fi movies, and I like to go birdwatching with him, and love gardening and going out looking for butterflies or turning rocks over; he doesn't feel like he has to hide his excitement about the weird esoteric things from me, because he knows I'll listen to him and be excited too.  He said "I don't think it's that hard now to just not be sexually active, there's so much more to worry about than getting your *** wet by age 22...and I just never saw a reason to do it just to do it."

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7 hours ago, Coily said:

Re-reading this, I remain firm in my thinking that he is very shy and cautious. I am really thinking this has less to do with his sexuality, and more about the baggage that he thinks comes from sex. By that the risks of sleeping with a co-worker, the understandable paranoia some men have about false accusations later, the whole kaleidoscope for feelings he's heard about after sex, and well you get the point. He has built up these narratives and cautions  without experience to break through the barriers. For a sensitive guy who is dating shy, that's a huge barrier; especially when he "doesn't know what he's doing."

It sounds like OP, you are willing to take the patience and loving care needed. Now he may be non-sexual in the end, or he may turn out to have a super high drive that was suppressed. As a guy who was days away from turning 30 before I was no longer a virgin, I can really sympathize with him. I was all sorts of concerned that I'd disappoint her, that I wouldn't know what to do etc. It really put the brakes on my intimacy with the women I was dating, it also left a few confused and very angry that I wasn't just humping them at the drop of a hint. All it took was one very caring and patient woman who reassured me before, during and after. After that.... well let's just say I found my drive is pretty dang average.

I get the feeling that he also has just...gotten used to being celibate.  I suppose it's like anything else, do it for a decade and it's just how things are, and you get numb to the 'inconvenience' of it.  Like, he mentions having desires and urges and crushes but just dealt with them himself, because it didn't feel right to engage those feelings with whomever was his point of interest for many reasons, such as her being unavailable, or her not being interested in him or he realizing/deciding she wasn't exactly right for him.

I think I can also sympathize, if a guy sorta glazed over while I was talking about things I was passionate about I'd probably not pursue a relationship with him either...and for me, that seems justified but it just seems sometimes for guys, if they decide that an attractive available and physically interested woman isn't interested in their intellectual lifestyle passions and thus the guy doesn't want to pursue a sexual relationship with the woman that there's something wrong with that guy...because 'a red blooded guy should wanna bone all the hot women regardless'... 

He's also intimated that it's also the fact that he's a little daunted by the fact that he's his age and doesn't really know what he's doing.  He knows...how in theory it's meant to work...he even in one conversation said 'I did research, I read books, and online forums...' apparently he started watching porn largely out of curiosity and just wanting a vague idea of what it was meant to look like practically. He is aware of how big of an alleged 'red flag' it is that he's 'that old and not gotten his penis into a vagina' which is why he was really quite circumspect when I started being more affectionate with him, because he was afraid I'd dump him once I realized/found out.  

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22 minutes ago, Anaiss said:

He's also intimated that it's also the fact that he's a little daunted by the fact that he's his age and doesn't really know what he's doing.  He knows...how in theory it's meant to work...he even in one conversation said 'I did research, I read books, and online forums...' apparently he started watching porn largely out of curiosity and just wanting a vague idea of what it was meant to look like practically. He is aware of how big of an alleged 'red flag' it is that he's 'that old and not gotten his penis into a vagina' which is why he was really quite circumspect when I started being more affectionate with him, because he was afraid I'd dump him once I realized/found out.  

I definitely understand where he's coming from with that. I remember the second woman I was with, different body type from my previous GF so I was learning her angles and such. She stopped everything in the heat of the moment and asked "Are you a virgin?" I was a bit shocked and angry, that after the previous moments she threw that at me. Her tone made me feel ashamed that I wasn't just throwing hot dogs down hallways like a champ chump.

I am really glad you are making progress with him. Being understanding is going to help him open up, and once he is ready it will be a good experience for both of you. If you want to be bold and have lingerie, the next time you visit his place ask in advance what catches his eye from your collection. If it's something you can wear under your normal clothes do so, tell him that you have it on. Doesn't mean you are pushing him for sex, but letting him know that you find intimacy with him desirable.  Because some of us guys really don't know what it's like to be sexually desired.

 

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22 minutes ago, Coily said:

I definitely understand where he's coming from with that. I remember the second woman I was with, different body type from my previous GF so I was learning her angles and such. She stopped everything in the heat of the moment and asked "Are you a virgin?" I was a bit shocked and angry, that after the previous moments she threw that at me. Her tone made me feel ashamed that I wasn't just throwing hot dogs down hallways like a champ chump.

I am really glad you are making progress with him. Being understanding is going to help him open up, and once he is ready it will be a good experience for both of you. If you want to be bold and have lingerie, the next time you visit his place ask in advance what catches his eye from your collection. If it's something you can wear under your normal clothes do so, tell him that you have it on. Doesn't mean you are pushing him for sex, but letting him know that you find intimacy with him desirable.  Because some of us guys really don't know what it's like to be sexually desired.

 

Ha, like as much as I say 'oh he's not as nonsexual as you all think'...I do think if I start a conversation about wearing sexy lingerie, he might just faint...  :p .  

I mean that's sort of where we are now...  I feel weirdly insecure...  Because on one hand...I do kind of find myself resisting an urge to just be a bit more proactive.  But on the other hand I don't want to be pushy.  Like when we made out last weekend, it was nice and I enjoyed cuddling and kissing and snuggling with him, but it I was afraid to push it too far...like we stayed clothed...and I didn't try to feel him up too much...and he very much kept things to broad hugging and snuggling.  No hands on butts or thighs or chests...  I guess I don't know how to indicate to him that it's ok if he wants to touch more....without you know, saying 'please take my clothes off and fondle me'.  

Like I'm kinda afraid that he's cool with us being intimate in his head but that the moment I touch him...in certain ways he'll just be gone.  This summer we went to a lake area, and we ended up having a bit of a picnic near a beach and it was hot, and I'd worn a bikini under my shirt, (in the event we decided to go swimming), so I took my shirt off, and he immediately started to blush and looked away.  And if I wear something a little more revealing, he'll blush and simply say that I look very nice, but he will kinda act like a chastised school boy caught peeking in the girls' locker room....

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