Family Vacations and Plans

[Alex39]

I'm feeling really depressed. Every year since I was born, even before I was born, my family goes on a vacation together. I look forward to it so much. We haven't gone in many years due to the pandemic, but this year I got all excited that we may go again. I started researching for hours hotels, cars, flights, everything. I'm the one who usually is the travel agent in the family, planning everything to a T, and my family praises me for my travel coordination, as it typically turns our really good. 

After days and hours upon hours of research I finally present what I think we should do, and my mom is on board and jumps in helping me plan too. My mom and I get so excited and are looking forward to this trip. We tell my dad and he's all on board with our plan. We find a nice three bedroom for rent, great price, location, and amenities. One bedroom for my parents, one for me, and one for my brother and his girlfriend. We decide to invite her too. 

My brother is in a long distance relationship, has been for one year. I've been having really weird gut feelings about it though. I think his girlfriend is awesome, but she's very young and not a life planner. My brother has a career and a solid lifestyle. For a long time, my brother has been saying she's going to move here to be with him. So thats what we thought. But she hasn't. Then when we ask about it, he says that now he isn't sure where they'll be- maybe here, maybe there,maybe they'll move somewhere else entirely. It makes no sense. My brother has a solid career and she just graduated from college and has no job, and is sitting at home not doing much. Her parents are retiring and going to travel the world for many years. So we are confused why she would want to stay there, because her family won't be there. And why she isn't more motivated to be getting a job, and why she would have my brother give up his lucrative career to move with her, when she doesn't have one at all. 

My brother flew to visit her 6 times this year. She came 1 time. She was in school, but my brother used every vacation day he had from work to try and see her. I just get this gut feeling that she's never going to move here and their relationship has my brother giving a lot more on his end. 

Last year her family took my brother on a 12 day vacation with them. It was a great opportunity.  

So we were so excited that we'd get to take her this year and go on our own family vacation.  We ask my brother if he will go. The trip is in 6 months. He says "I don't know"

Then he says he doesn't know where he'll be, and he won't go without his girlfriend, and she may not be able to go. They might be moving or buying a house. She may be working and can't take time off. 

We are really upset that he won't go without her and he doesn't know where he'll be. Guaranteed if her family was taking him jet setting, she and him would be all on board and would drop everything to go,easily, as they did last year, when they both dropped everything to go. 

I feel like he doesn't care as much about us and loyalty to our family. 

Trips need to be planned in advance with flights and such. And now he won't commit until the last minute. Now I feel like a loser just going with my parents, when they could just go as a couple. I'm the loser third wheel. I feel like my brother is leaving us hanging. It's so irritating. I asked my brother if his girlfriend is applying for jobs here to be with him. He says no, and that she wants to find housing first, and she doesn't even know where she wants to live. It's all unorganized and constantly changing with no real concrete plans ever made. His girlfriend is just like that. She and my brother always do last minute. 

I'm very saddened, because everyone was looking forward to our awesome family vacation after many years of not going and it's not so much of a family without my brother. 

Again,I feel like it's a waste to rent the place we want with only three people. And a lot of money for it with only three people. I want to go so bad, but feel like it's dumb to go with my parents and just me. Like I'm a huge hindrance on them as a couple and me their adult loser daughter who is single and alone.

And we are trying to plan boarding and pet sitting for our animals in advance. If my brother doesn't go, then he can watch them. But he won't commit to that or anything. It's putting us in a locked up situation. Moneywise too. We all pitch in money. It makes a huge difference. If he comes, then we all pay less. If he doesn't, we pay more. It's kind of important to know that now, not last minute. We decide a lot of costly things like rentals and flights and cars now. 

How do we, how do I handle this?

[Seraphim]

You guys need to be less up each other’s life. Let people do what they want. Family trips are fun to a certain point and then they aren’t . No one is obligated to family holidays. Also no one’s business when the gf gets a job or moves in with him. Everyone minding their own business will solve a lot of these issues. 

[Jaunty]

Your brother and his girlfriend are adults.  They get to decide on how to spend their vacation time, and their money.  It seems odd to me that you are so enmeshed that this doesn't just make sense to you.   I understand you being disappointed that they won't commit, but it's their lives, and there is nothing wrong with it.  

Your trip is 6 months out.  You and your parents decide together whether you really want to rent the place you found, though it's expensive.   If that's a "no" then find a nice place for the 3 of you.  Start tracking flights and book when the fares are good.  Also organize your pet care.

If your brother and his girlfriend decide they want to go, they can get a place of their own near where yours is,  if you got a smaller rental.

I've read some posts of yours.  You consistently seem extremely wrapped up in your family of origin to the point of co-dependency.   I remember a lot of issues because your mom won't let go at all.  Are you growing up to be your mom?

 

[Alex39]

No, it's not any of that. I swear. I'm disappointed at my brothers response to this. I'm genuinely disappointed because there is a clear issue with wealth, loyalty, and choices. Our family is not as important as hers. 

My brother's girlfriends family is immensely wealthy. They take them on 5 star vacations you see on tv. They pay for everything. They treat my brother to lobster dinners and expensive premiere shows. They have been trying for a while to get my brother to quit his job and work for her father.  They have been trying to convince my brother to live in their second home, and they want my brother there for every single holiday or birthday to party it up with them. My brother went there for her birthday, her Dad's birthday, 4th of July, the family vacation, her graduation, and Christmas. All in one year. 

My mom nicely invited her for Thanksgiving, and her mom wouldn't allow her to come spend it with us.  She came one time for no reason and my mom threw her a huge bash at our house that was so nice and for her to meet our entire family. My mom mailed her a Christmas gift and she never even thanked her for it.

I guess I'm just bitter because it doesn't seem like they want to spend time with us. But they spend oodles of time with her parents. Because her parents pay for prestigious things 

My brothers reaction to this vacation simply seemed like well you guys and that vacation isn't that special or important so we aren't going to commit in case we get a better offer to be somewhere else.

Her parents offered to take them on a yacht later this year and my brother said they want to go on that.

So why does he not know about our trip, but can commit to the boat vacation that her parents are offering?

We aren't wealthy, but we try and stay at nice places and we have a lot of laughs and fun. 

[Seraphim]

You and your parents want to control what everyone does , you are causing your own issues. I know you can’t see this but it is true. Just stop once in a while and breathe and let people do what they want and you will be less stressed. Life isn’t about competition and control. 

[Alex39]

I guess I don't care as much what they do. I don't care if they come. This cuts deeper into my own self. 

It's my own insecurity that's raging here. 

Without my brother there, it's a huge reminder to me, that I'm a loser vacationing with her parents. I'm single and alone. And I feel I'm intruding on my parents vacation as a couple then. And taking them away from each other like an annoying third arm. Both my parents insist they want me to come and that's not the case. That it's a family trip regardless if it's just me or my brother and I. 

But I feel like it's so weird with just me. I have nothing better going on in my life. The fact that I want to go and have fun, and my brother doesn't. That maybe I'm just this old fart, who isn't spending time with people my own age. But all my friends are married and none want to go on a trip with me. 

I will add, that I am going away on a girls long weekend trip this summer with friends. 

Maybe it's social media. I just feel like I'm always seeing people vacationing with their friends in big groups, or couples and I don't do that. My friends don't either. 

[Seraphim]

14 minutes ago, Alex39 said:

I guess I don't care as much what they do. I don't care if they come. This cuts deeper into my own self. 

It's my own insecurity that's raging here. 

Without my brother there, it's a huge reminder to me, that I'm a loser vacationing with her parents. I'm single and alone. And I feel I'm intruding on my parents vacation as a couple then. And taking them away from each other like an annoying third arm. Both my parents insist they want me to come and that's not the case. That it's a family trip regardless if it's just me or my brother and I. 

But I feel like it's so weird with just me. I have nothing better going on in my life. The fact that I want to go and have fun, and my brother doesn't. That maybe I'm just this old fart, who isn't spending time with people my own age. But all my friends are married and none want to go on a trip with me. 

I will add, that I am going away on a girls long weekend trip this summer with friends. 

Maybe it's social media. I just feel like I'm always seeing people vacationing with their friends in big groups, or couples and I don't do that. My friends don't either. 

I don’t know anyone who vacations in big groups . Maybe it is my generation that doesn’t do that. It sounds like hell actually. For vacation I just want to be with my husband. 

[Alex39]

5 minutes ago, Seraphim said:

I don’t know anyone who vacations in big groups . Maybe it is my generation that doesn’t do that. It sounds like hell actually. For vacation I just want to be with my husband. 

I guess my family culture was always that we went as a big family. I don't know what it's like to vacation as a couple. So I wouldn't know.  

[Seraphim]

Understand that families change as we grow older. Nothing stays the same not even families.

[boltnrun]

Alex, you are overly concerned with how others conduct their lives. Your friend with her bridal shower and wedding, your mom's friends, and now your brother. 

People usually overly concern themselves with what others are doing when they don't have a lot going on in their own lives.

Look, I understand what it's like to not be super occupied. I used to have friends I went places with, I went to all sorts of activities and I was out usually three to four evenings every week. And now I'm mainly home. I work from home and after work I go from my eat in kitchen to my couch which is about five steps to spend the rest of the day. So I don't have a lot going on right now, but I find things to keep myself busy.

You're young and have so many opportunities. It's great that you're having a girl's weekend. Do more things like that and get involved in activities and events and you won't be finding yourself obsessing over what other people are doing in their own private personal lives.

As for family vacations, that usually ends when we're adults and are doing our own thing. I certainly don't expect my adult kids to join me on vacations. 

[Jaunty]

1 hour ago, Alex39 said:

Our family is not as important as hers. 

Your OP does not describe it that way at all.  

It just sounds like you want to control what your brother does.   Frankly, who can blame him if he'd enjoy spending time with her family?  It doesn't mean they're "more important," it means he feels like spending time with them.  It's not wrong.

I've responded to a thread or two of yours in the past.  I don't remember the details but they were based on your mother's controlling behavior and how much you couldn't stand it.  

Maybe your brother feels the same way.  Unlike you, he's changing his own dynamics.  That's healthy.  You and he are adults.  Free to plan your own vacations, or to keep your options open.  He's doing that.

[Jaunty]

1 hour ago, Alex39 said:

I guess I don't care as much what they do. I don't care if they come. This cuts deeper into my own self. 

It's my own insecurity that's raging here. 

Without my brother there, it's a huge reminder to me, that I'm a loser vacationing with her parents. I'm single and alone. And I feel I'm intruding on my parents vacation as a couple then.

If your brother and his girlfriend were there together, wouldn't that be even more of a painful situation?  To be the only single with two couples?

Then it would be 3 of you "intruding" on your parents, too.  If they wanted to go off on their own they would do that.

Do yourself and your brother a favor and be gracious about his asserting his own choices here.  You could do the same at some point in your life - I hope you will.

 

[1a1a]

Be careful about how you editorialise things.

You’re going on a vacation with your parents. - Fact

This makes you a loser - opinion only. 
 

What if you were an only child? (I am). Then it would be impossible to have a family vacation without you. (Because without you it would just be the couple, your parents). What if your parents want to spend some quality time with you? You say you’re going to be a third wheel but why? Your parents get alone time the majority of the year. Maybe they actually want the opportunity to spend some quality time with you. 

[DarkCh0c0]

4 hours ago, Alex39 said:

Now I feel like a loser just going with my parents, when they could just go as a couple. I'm the loser third wheel.

 

4 hours ago, Alex39 said:

I want to go so bad, but feel like it's dumb to go with my parents and just me. Like I'm a huge hindrance on them as a couple and me their adult loser daughter who is single and alone.

These are some serious reactions just because your brother, who is an adult, decided to possibly not be onboard with the trip.

You need to understand that he is an adult and he gets to decide where and when he spends his vacation time and with who. His choice has NOTHING to do with you and your internal negative self-talk.

What needs to be investigated more is why you think you are a loser if he just leaves you to have a peaceful time with your parents. This has to do more with the dynamic you grew up under as brother and sister. This situation just triggered it. Maybe the parents preferred one of you? Maybe the parents did label you as loser when you didn't perfect things? Maybe you miss your bother and wanted to connect with him? Add to that, you sound very bitter of being single. Maybe you're jealous he's in a relationship? Idk. There's a whole negative self talk built up and it needs to be explored with a good therapist. 

[Alex39]

17 minutes ago, DarkCh0c0 said:

 

These are some serious reactions just because your brother, who is an adult, decided to possibly not be onboard with the trip.

You need to understand that he is an adult and he gets to decide where and when he spends his vacation time and with who. His choice has NOTHING to do with you and your internal negative self-talk.

What needs to be investigated more is why you think you are a loser if he just leaves you to have a peaceful time with your parents. This has to do more with the dynamic you grew up under as brother and sister. This situation just triggered it. Maybe the parents preferred one of you? Maybe the parents did label you as loser when you didn't perfect things? Maybe you miss your bother and wanted to connect with him? Add to that, you sound very bitter of being single. Maybe you're jealous he's in a relationship? Idk. There's a whole negative self talk built up and it needs to be explored with a good therapist. 

I'm not jealous at all. I actually like his girlfriend and I do get along with her. 

I think I am taking it personally that he might not want to go. That he's not wanting to spend time with us. We all prioritize each other a lot, but my brother always puts himself first and can be a bit selfish at times. 

He can be nice, but my brother can also be very un-empathetic. Knowing we really want to go as a family and us telling him how excited we are. And him being kind of like "well whatever, not going without my girlfriend."

He's not always nice or kind in his wording. Like essentially screw you, my girlfriend of one year is more important. 

 

I guess I see all these people connecting and having fun with their siblings. My brother and I don't. I always wanted to, but he won't. I try to be his friend. But it's just weird. And I see my cousins. They go on these huge vacations with their spouses, kids, my aunt and uncle. All in one big house. Looks so fun. We used to do that when I was a kid, even my grandparents would go with us. My mom and I always wanted to keep the tradition. We always have a nice time. Doesn't mean I can't go on a trip with my husband- if I ever find one, but doing that once a year or every other year family thing is special too. And my parents encourage us to bring serious boyfriends and girlfriends. 

[DarkCh0c0]

6 minutes ago, Alex39 said:

think I am taking it personally that he might not want to go.

Yes, but you've got A LOT of negative self talk going on that's making you feel this way. This is more than just this situation. There's some built up emotions from previous situations growing up together.

Again, this needs exploring with a therapist.

6 minutes ago, Alex39 said:

We all prioritize each other a lot, but my brother always puts himself first and can be a bit selfish at times. 

And that's cool. You've mentioned before that your mom is toxic. Maybe he just doesn't want to be around because of that? You seem to idealise this whole trip, but maybe your brother sees things differently.

You are not here to people-please anyone. He can do as he wants.

[Wiseman2]

5 hours ago, Alex39 said:

. . If he comes, then we all pay less. If he doesn't, we pay more. 

Unfortunately if they don't want to go you'll have to make other arrangements. It's understandable that as an adult couple they would rather do their own vacation.

[Kwothe28]

5 hours ago, Alex39 said:

Without my brother there, it's a huge reminder to me, that I'm a loser vacationing with her parents. I'm single and alone.

I feel this is the main issue, not your brother.

So what if your brother doesnt go? Just let him know that if he doesnt decide until the certain date, you will plan vacation without him, that he will instead be a sitter for the animals and that is about it. You cant force him to go and him and his girlfriend are wishy- washy about it. 

Also lots of people are vacationing with their parents. Its nothing to be that ashamed of. Who knows, maybe you even meet somebody there.

[Batya33]

I agree with all everyone said.  Get over yourself.  Get over the judgey stuff -she is not abusing him, he is into her, he is comfortable with their situation and plans and intentions.  The end.  Be flexible about how "culture" changes over the years because of marriages/relationships/deaths (tragically!)/geography. 

All over social media I see photos of the family vacations over winter break. And I've never met my two grandnieces because of geography -(and my son hasn't met those cousins) because we chose not to spend $$$$ or risk traveling during the pandemic or take a lot of time off from our jobs to fly to where they were. 

Other families wouldn't think of putting a price tag on meeting the new cousins.  Oh well -they can do them and we will do us.  I also won't do Facetime with my nieces and their kids randomly - if it's an inconvenient time or I'm not feeling like I look suitable to be on camera I say no - Facetime is super uncomfortable for me and often babies/young kids don't interact meaningfully anyway in that format.  Other families would jump at the chance.  So? 

But I jumped to donate to the requested charity for my friend's father in law who passed (I made the donation within 15 minutes of her giving me the details which I requested immediately) and this weekend I'll take a long subway ride/walk miles to attend a religious service for my friend's child because I choose to show up for her in this particular situation.  But I won't force my husband and son to go even though son is invited to the kids party -he doesn't want to go and I'm not forcing him -he doesn't know anyone.  Friend has been judgey about me not wanting to ask my husband  to drive us and spend all those hours at the service and party and how I'm not making my son go.  Oh well.  I am doing what is 100% right for my family and I am showing up for my friend who is not close family.  

I am sharing these stories because this crap I mean stuff comes up alllll the time in most people's lives - whether they are single or married or have kids or not.  You can drive yourself crazy with the negative talk and the comparisons and how it "has always been" or you can have a talk with yourself and get over yourself and stop the rigidity and the negative self talk.

I personally wouldn't waste $$ on a big house for 3 people.  I would go with just my parents.  I wasn't an only child but my sister is much older and my sister married young so it would have been just the 3 of us had we done a family vacation.  My husband is an only and he went on many vacations with his parents as a young adult and single adult.  

I love the idea of your brother and his partner getting a hotel room or a smaller house if they decide to join in.

I hope you can get to a place of security and peace.  And have fun planning and going if you do that!

[Alex39]

7 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Unfortunately if they don't want to go you'll have to make other arrangements. It's understandable that as an adult couple they would rather do their own vacation.

They don't want to do their own thing. They easily commit to go on vacations with her family. 

[Seraphim]

8 minutes ago, Alex39 said:

They don't want to do their own thing. They easily commit to go on vacations with her family. 

But Alex it DOEST MATTER. They are adults free to do what they want. Most often men DO spend more time with their wife’s family, it is very common. My sister-in-law, my husband’s sister is like this, all snarly and bitter because she has nothing going on in life and constantly berates my husband for having a life. She will be avoided and told off by me after their mother dies. I am silent out of respect for my MIL. My husband’s therapist told him his family acted like a cult, the 4 of them to the end of time was his father’s motto. It is maladjusted. 

[MissCanuck]

Maybe your brother wants space from you and your mom. 

 

[Lambert]

This is a growing pain. children grow up and find their own path. your brother's life is up to him.

give him a deadline to decide and then plan based on that.

[Jaunty]

9 hours ago, Alex39 said:

We all prioritize each other a lot, but my brother always puts himself first and can be a bit selfish at times. 

He can be nice, but my brother can also be very un-empathetic. Knowing we really want to go as a family and us telling him how excited we are. And him being kind of like "well whatever, not going without my girlfriend."

He's not always nice or kind in his wording. Like essentially screw you, my girlfriend of one year is more important. 

???  You think that an "empathetic" person would put aside their own wishes and vacation plans to go with their mom, dad and sister because their sister is mad?  That has nothing to do with empathy and it would be very unhealthy of your brother to succumb to this type of emotional manipulation when he's making decisions of his own which in fact have little to nothing to do with you.

 

9 hours ago, Alex39 said:

 

I guess I see all these people connecting and having fun with their siblings. My brother and I don't. I always wanted to, but he won't. I try to be his friend. But it's just weird. And I see my cousins. They go on these huge vacations with their spouses, kids, my aunt and uncle. All in one big house. Looks so fun. We used to do that when I was a kid, even my grandparents would go with us. My mom and I always wanted to keep the tradition. We always have a nice time. Doesn't mean I can't go on a trip with my husband- if I ever find one, but doing that once a year or every other year family thing is special too. And my parents encourage us to bring serious boyfriends and girlfriends. 

Okay but that is all YOUR stuff.  Your brother doesn't have to share your idea about "fun vacations."  Evidently he doesn't.   

[boltnrun]

1 hour ago, Alex39 said:

They don't want to do their own thing. They easily commit to go on vacations with her family. 

As is their choice as free adults.

Do you really believe he's obligated to go on this "family vacation" because you want him to?