Shelley511 Posted December 29, 2022 Author Share Posted December 29, 2022 21 hours ago, Jaunty said: It's not so much about whether you're "behaving as a therapist" with the guys. It's the fact that you're selecting, exclusively, guys who are in dire need of a therapist. Whether you take on that role or not, these men are not viable relationship prospects for you or for anyone, until / unless they deal with their issues. You're compassionate and you have your own reasons for being drawn to broken, hurting people. I'm assuming you'd feel guilty for rejecting a man because he is suffering due to things beyond his control, like a mental illness or familial trauma. Don't feel guilty. You aren't judging them. But they can't be your partner when they're in the midst of their own issues. Date healthy men. Maybe you need a little therapy yourself to help you navigate this. There is not any shame in getting help, as you know. Take care. I appreciate this a lot. It gives me a lot to think about when my head is less cloudy. I can truly say that I had made changes after each one. For example, with the investment banker who was always was busy, I made sure the next guy put effort and time into me but he wasn't vulnerable and hadnt worked through his stuff, we had loads of fun though. The most reason guy was respectful, out effort in, it felt so easy and he put effort into healing his past trauma. But this guy was triggered by a couple of family members that he fought with. I don't know how it ends up like this because they don't do anything questioning right away. I don't think I'd feel guilty, but I don't know. But I do know that once I care about someone, i care enough to try to stay. I need to think about what the evidence is that they've worked through their issues. How do I know before they're triggered or have some sort of episode? I've gotten so much therapy but I clearly need more. Thank you so much for your response, I find it very valuable. Link to comment
Shelley511 Posted December 29, 2022 Author Share Posted December 29, 2022 20 hours ago, Wiseman2 said: Listen to your friends. A good relationship is a balance, not one person fixing another. Reflect on why you are doing that. Remember that even though you mean well, no one wants to be someone's project. I don't think I was trying to fix him. But I can see how my statement about wanting to be there can come off that way. This is good advice in general though. Link to comment
Shelley511 Posted December 29, 2022 Author Share Posted December 29, 2022 20 hours ago, Starlight925 said: ^^ This. For some reason, these guys all have the same thing in common: They are all in need of a therapist. You are maybe not necessarily playing that role, but in staying past the first few red flags, you're allowing yourself to be hurt by these men who are simply not dateable. Yes, they appear dateable at first. They've "dealt" with their issues (turns out they have not), they treat you well, they call when they say they will. Until it turns out, their issues are still very much there. Get out sooner. And figure out why you stay, and why you ruminate over it. A healthy relationship doesn't start out like this, nor does it get worse. To have a healthy relationship, we must be a healthy partner, which means getting out when we realize it doesn't work for us, and staying out, both physically and mentally. Think of it this way: Say you decide to quit eating junk food, start working out, want to live a healthier lifestyle. You meet a new friend, but she's into fast food, couch surfing, and doesn't own a pair of walking shoes. If you decide to stay her friend, that's cool, but she's not likely to change to work with your new lifestyle, so eventually, you'll need to find friends, in a world, where you can practice this newfound healthy lifestyle without judgment. Staying in her world, on the couch eating the broken chips at the bottom of the bag, keeps you stuck. Thanks for this. This guy was the one who seemed to have actually worked on his issues. I think he may have leaned too much on his faith and the church. He is very religious and really involved in the church. I don't know how much sooner I would have gotten out. Turn away the moment I find out there's trauma? This was the first spiraling episode and it caught me off guard to hear/see. I have so much processing and reflecting to do. My ruminating is my huge issue. I think deep down I take it personally when I come across people who aren't healthy and can't show up. That's my childhood trauma showing that I have worked on for years. Your analogy was great. These people keep me stuck. It's odd that he's the first guy I've truly felt safe with though. Thank your for your feedback again. Much appreciated. Link to comment
Shelley511 Posted December 29, 2022 Author Share Posted December 29, 2022 19 hours ago, boltnrun said: The fact that these men have trauma they need to "deal with" is a red flag. I know dozens of people and almost none of them have experienced "trauma" they need to recover from or deal with. The fact that you find these men attractive is probably your main issue. Hmmm that's a very good point. It's tough because I've read about attachment theory and the people who are single and dating are mostly emotionally unavailable so the odds are against me. It doesn't mean that they aren't capable of a relationship, just challenges. Communication was huge for him and I which is why I thought we'd make it. I think a lot of people have trauma and don't acknowledge it. It's tough to just cross out these people as options but maybe it's time to. Thank you for this. Glad I can come back and read/reflect on it. Link to comment
Shelley511 Posted December 29, 2022 Author Share Posted December 29, 2022 19 hours ago, Kwothe28 said: At the start while you dont know them yet. After a while they become undatable mess. You should, as we say here "open up 4 eyes wide open" while you date people. Precisely because there a lot of people out there with a lot of issues. And you shouldnt indulge them when you discover those issues. When you discover them, that is your cue to walk away. Not to wait for them to resolve those issues. So, "open up 4 eyes" next time please. I think this is great advice to consider. It's tough to just say no to anyone with trauma. The consequences to trauma that hasn't been worked through is very clear from my experience. I've also learned that even if it does seem as though it was worked though, you truly don't know until faced with an occasion of when the other person is triggered. But does it mean that these people aren't worthy of a relationship? I'd like to think not as I'm someone who has grown so much from my own trauma. I'm typically triggered by feeling abandoned relationally aka situations like this. Other than that, I'm fine. I think trauma is more broad that what people typically think it is too. But maybe for my own wellbeing, running when I find out anything is the course to take. I need some time to grieve right now. Thank you for this again. A lot to think about. Link to comment
Shelley511 Posted December 29, 2022 Author Share Posted December 29, 2022 17 hours ago, catfeeder said: Yes! You may not be trying to 'therapize' anyone, but you are participating in a co-dependency-like involvement. As though this is natural, or a 'must have' for you. The word 'discrimination' has harsh undertones, but on it's flip side it's a healthy use of judgement to select one's options carefully. You have leaned into the role of a support person for those who are 'in progress'. That's a great vocation, but not-so-great for partner selection. Leave it to @Jaunty for clarity. Embrace HEALTHY. You can always 'go back' to a social worker mentality to learn where you can help others in a totally different context later. JUST DON'T MAKE THAT YOUR LOVE LIFE! I guess I never got the opportunity to support him but I think I would have been willing to sit on the sidelines for a bit. I wouldn't abandon him because he was going through things. People go through ***. I guess I think about long term relationships and how one person is bound to go through something but it doesn't mean you just walk away. But maybe my mindset about that is the issue. I can't keep going through this situations so I may just have to be more strict. Thank you again Link to comment
Shelley511 Posted December 29, 2022 Author Share Posted December 29, 2022 16 hours ago, Andrina said: This reads to me as a lack of self-esteem on your end. It's sort of like you're willing to settle for the scraps of friendship (and the words I put in bold are suggestive as a supportive ear for his problems, so you saying you didn't want to be a therapist is reading as the opposite in this excerpt). Open for reconnecting is unwise, as you already thought he'd grown past his former difficulties, and yet he hadn't. Whose to say this pattern wouldn't repeat? You're so close to the situation you can't see an alternate possibility--that he'd set up this exit from the very beginning, as some guys actually want short term, even as they say otherwise. They like to bolt as soon as they've met the goal of intimacy, and then it gets to the point the woman expects things to go to the next level. He could've put that worm in your ear about past trauma, and then pulled it out of his hat when the time came. He could then get out without too much melodrama from you, since who could argue about his mental health needs? Do some more work on your self-love, and perhaps you might end up with better relationship success. I know when I did OLD, there were times I thought my self-love was at a good level, but looking back, I found it was far from being healthy. I shake my head at what I put up with. With time and distance, I saw things through a clearer lens. Good luck going into our new year. I guess when I made the comment about wanting to be there, I was coming from a place of just not leaving someone because they're going through something because most people will go through something at a certain point. But I guess that would be better used for someone who wasn't triggered and have the trauma that he does. I'm trying to be very vague about his trauma. Your comment about trauma repeating in a good point. I guess the way his life turned around (turning to church and people from there, having boundaries, etc) made me think that he would be able to manage challenges well in the future. With this guy, I'm positive it wasn't an exit plan. This isn't not in option in life though. Thank you for your response! It'll be great to have when my mind is more clear to process. Link to comment
Shelley511 Posted December 29, 2022 Author Share Posted December 29, 2022 16 hours ago, boltnrun said: I used to fall into the trap of wanting the damaged baby bird to nurture back to health. I found it romantic that I could take this damaged man and show him how it felt to be loved and accepted. But it backfired every time. They either were too damaged to know how to give love and/or to accept it with grace or they embraced their damage and used it as an excuse to cause pain to others. It never worked out. I finally learned that it was me who was damaged and that's why I thought I had a better chance with troubled men. Totally wrong and self destructive. After I realized this I learned to walk away as soon as I saw signs a man wasn't emotionally healthy. The last guy who I started to get involved with along these lines told me about all sorts of turmoil he had been going through. I noticed it pretty much was all self inflicted, which he excused by saying "Well, I can't help it, I have an ADDICTIVE PERSONALITY!!!" I got away from that one. And he's still stumbling around ruining his own life to this day. He'd have ruined mine too if I'd let him. There's a reason why you keep choosing damaged baby birds. Find out why so you can end this cycle. I think this mindset would have been me two years ago. But with this most recent guy, I didn't consciously want that. But maybe my patterns are more deeply rooted. I was honestly bummed when I found out about his trauma but what made him different from others is that he actually made huge changes in his life that I admired. But maybe you never truly recover from family trauma. Maybe he tried on the church community too much. We both wanted bigger and better out of life. This will be a tough one to grieve. By the turmoil experienced by the person you were involved with, I'm assuming your referring to things he was going through at that moment but I could be totally wrong. Maybe my first instinct should also be to walk away when someone is triggered. I had learned to manage my triggers minus one so I assumed that he could too especially granted the structure he had established. But I was wrong. Thank you for sharing a true experience. I clearly have some reflecting to do. Link to comment
Shelley511 Posted December 29, 2022 Author Share Posted December 29, 2022 10 hours ago, jul-els said: He’s telling you he’s not capable of being in a healthy relationship now. Believe him, he’s doing you a favor. You may want to ask yourself if you’re ready for one too, since you want so badly to be with someone who has told you he isn’t emotionally available. Thank you for this. I guess I'm greiving and abandonment in relationships is literally the only thing that I haven't worked through so matter how much work I've done on it. I know sound selfish but in my mind it's like 'why can't you?'. I can't relate to him in this way. I really appreciate this response. It's a summary of the situation that I need to process. Link to comment
Shelley511 Posted December 29, 2022 Author Share Posted December 29, 2022 36 minutes ago, MissCanuck said: OP, the other reason I wouldn't lean too much into the trauma aspect of this is because you have no idea if it's even true. What I mean is this: he may indeed have suffered trauma in his life. But that might have nothing to do with the demise of this relationship. For all you know, he could have met someone else and is using this trauma spiral as an excuse to avoid being honest with you. I appreciate this perspective as it may be the case in a future situation. I'm positive that it wasn't an exit plan though. Thank you again. All of your past feedback has been very valuable. Link to comment
Starlight925 Posted December 29, 2022 Share Posted December 29, 2022 You've been given great advice, Shelley, but I also want to commend you on how you're taking the advice: with a lot of thought and desire to truly learn from the situation. This is where growth happens. And yes, it's great that it's all written out because, as you said, you can come back to it later. You're doing great. In fact, what I'm observing is that in every post, you're responding with desire to learn, and when you look back, this is what will be important. These guys are a dime a dozen, but you, Shelley, you are a diamond. 😀 Link to comment
DarkCh0c0 Posted December 29, 2022 Share Posted December 29, 2022 2 hours ago, Shelley511 said: It's tough because he treated me SO well. I know I'll get through it with time but I felt understood, safe probably for the first time and respected. I'm happy to hear that. This should be the minimum standard for you to have in regards to how a man treats you. I think you can take the best parts of this relationship and learn what you see fit from it. 3 months are not too long, so you've got a lot of time to find a gem of a man who will cherish you, treat you right and not let you go! Link to comment
Jaunty Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 On 12/28/2022 at 8:37 AM, Shelley511 said: Hi there, I appreciate your feedback. But with the last two guys, I didn't play the therapist. That's good. Your next step is to choose HEALTHY guys. You will probably feel guilty passing on damaged people but you just need to do it. Normal, adjusted people without burdens of trauma are the men you need to screen for now. Think of it as an exercise in your personal growth. Link to comment
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