Should I Cold Call?

[Whirling D]

Hi all…

I have found myself single for the last 2 1/2 months, after two years of a tumultuous relationship, and seven months of a nice but incompatible relationship… I hadn’t dated anyone for five years prior to these two.

Perhaps for one of the first time in my life, I am not hating being single… Which is very unusual. I guess I am thankful for that.

That being said, I am 61 years old guy and not getting any younger. As complicated as it always has seemed to be, I still want to try again. But with the right person.

So… I typically have zero luck on dating sites, since I have very few ladies that I seem interested in ever responding to me or writing back.  I don’t attract ladies easily. 

Here’s where the cold calling comes in… I have several Facebook lady friends that I have never met that I find attractive and interesting, and I know they are single.  I’ve had to resist reaching out to them and sending them a message to say hi.  I have read so much about ladies detesting it when guys text them or send them messages on Facebook or other social media sites and use those portals like dating sites. I have read on several occasions that ladies might find that creepy.

ironically, the lady I dated for seven months did exactly that… She knew I was single, we had never met, and she sent me a simple Facebook message asking me if I wanted to get together for coffee. We started chatting from there. But she’s a girl, and girls seem to be able to do those things. Guys seem creepy if they do those things.

I did text one of these ladies almost a year ago on Facebook, and she responded a little bit, but with very few words, and didn’t seem hugely interested in conversing, so I let it go. Sadly, she stopped liking my posts, which was one of the reasons that I thought about reaching out to her in the first place.  

My texting with her was kind of goofy, and I was joking and asking her questions about things she posted… I tried not to come across as creepy or serious, but I didn’t ask her out… But still… I wish I had the nerve to try to open up a conversation with her again.

A lot of this is coming up because there was a girl in an adjacent neighborhood that had her profile on a dating site, and I’d like to know her… I saw her walking down the street with her dog today, and wondered how I could break the ice with this girl, and what manner would be appropriate.

I had sent her a message through the dating site about a year ago and never heard back from her. What a surprise. That seems to be the norm, so I let it go. It almost feels like it would be inappropriate for me to try to reach out to her in another format, after not hearing back from her on the dating site. But there could’ve been many reasons for that, who knows.

So… Do you guys think it is inappropriate to send cold call messages to people through social media sites, if you don’t even know someone, and it is not asked for?

What do you think? Any thoughts about all of this?

[Kwothe28]

Facebook works on "friend requests" basis. So if she confirmed your friend request, I think its OK to shoot her a message and try to talk to her. People get caught up in "OMG what if they dont respond" or even worst "OMG what if they think X about me" way too much. Ultimately, its not a big deal. You dont know each other. If she wants at least something she would respond, if she doesnt, she will ignore or send one note answers. Its not a big deal either way. Think of it that way when you message somebody.

Although, I have to warn you, if she didnt sent you anything on dating site, there is a good chance she wont be interested there. But again, you should at least try if you really want to know that girl.

[Batya33]

It's "ok" but not a good way to meet a quality woman.  It's more ok to message someone on Linkedin and start off that way.  Linkedin now sends me notifications like "you might want to connect with _____ because he shares 6 connections with you."  Sometimes I do -and that is cold calling -and I did with a guy who apparently used to work with my company, now does not -but has an interesting job - and we have mutual connections. Honestly never occurred to me whether I should factor in gender. He accepted.  I don't intend on messaging him but I would if it was relevant to my job or if I was interested in applying where he works way down the line.  I know -it's professional not personal -but if I were single and he was perhaps it could lead to a personal interaction.  I accept linkedin requests from men who work in my company or related companies.  

I was cold messaged by a man in my local area a few months ago.  I clicked on his profile and saw that he might be new to my area and it said he was engaged or in a relationship with a named woman. So I messaged back first "do we know each other" (thinking maybe someone referred him to me, maybe I knew his fiancee somehow?).  His response was "Hi." 

I wrote back "I don't accept requests from men I do not know on Facebook. If you want to send me a linkedin request that would be ok".  Yes my profile says I am married.  He wrote back something like "how are you today?" So I blocked him.  

I would only message a woman on Facebook if you know someone in common or if you are both in a Facebook group related to a specific interest or activity.  If I were single I would assume it was a man who was interested in a hookup or a scammer unless we had that common ground.  

[Andrina]

My suggestion is to look into Meetup.com groups for singles in your age group in the area. You will likely have better luck attending activities and gradually getting to know women there versus reaching out to ladies who are on a site not intended for dating.

[smackie9]

Get an active social life and friends. Go out to events, parties, get hobbies, etc. That's how you can meet new people with out the bs of sending random messages to women.

[Whirling D]

8 hours ago, smackie9 said:

Get an active social life and friends. Go out to events, parties, get hobbies, etc. That's how you can meet new people with out the bs of sending random messages to women.

I wished it were that easy… 😩

I consider myself a kind and decent person, but I worked with 75 other people for 15 years, and was never asked to a social gathering. I would often hear others talk about work parties that they went to, but I wasn’t invited.

To put that in context, however, I was always a good chunk older than my colleagues.  That being said, I have not been invited to parties for pretty much my entire life.  I couldn’t really tell you why, and I’ve pretty much stopped thinking about it.

I go out to places for meals, and to festivals, mostly by myself… And I chitchat with people that I see, but I am often too shy to ask anyone out. It just never seems appropriate.  There doesn’t seem to be a lot of opportunity, considering that most people that I encounter are coupled.

I do play in a band, but I often find myself in the company of people that are drinking, and I’m not a drinker.  So, that pretty much rules out bars and taverns.

I just re-joined a dating site after many months away, but still only getting likes from ladies I don’t seem too interested in.  The phrase beggars can’t be choosers seems to come to mind fairly quickly… 🙂

 

 

[Batya33]

What activities are  you involved in? What kind of volunteer work have you pursued? Ever considered doing backstage work for a community theater? We got our friend involved in that.  He is very shy and was recently widowed in his 40s.  Now he seems to have a social life and enjoys the work.

  Have you ever initiated a social gathering with your colleagues? What type? What work have you done as far as your shyness?  My husband was incredibly shy in his late 20s.  We originally met at work -took him months to ask me out for lunch.  

What singles events do  you attend? Have you ever taken swing or salsa dancing lessons? I've also heard pickleball is a great way to meet people? Ever considered that?

You seem very passive about your social life.

[waffle]

13 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

You seem very passive about your social life.

Not unusual. 

Singles groups and other in-person activities are about 2/3rds women, and online dating apps are about 2/3rds men.  So what does that tell you?

Online is very low effort, send a bunch of "how YOU doin'?" messages and sit back and watch who responds.  Shift that to social media and I don't think women are "creeped out" about it so much as they recognize how lazy it is and they also get many of these messages, hell I got two today before noon.  One more after noon.  Women also know that it's a fishing expedition--they are simply one of many being contacted.  OP mentioned he had "several" women he wanted to contact this way.  No one wants to be one of many.  But we know that's what's going on.

 

[Batya33]

I don't think it matters whether anyone else acts passively about social life - this person is acting passively yet complaining that he's never asked to parties.

I wanted to find a husband so for many years I forced myself to be proactive about my social life. 

Now, when things are loosening up some after covid I have been forcing myself to get out there more and socialize even though it's inconvenient for me - I picked two ways to do so, so far -one volunteer opportunity and one group walking activity with the parents from my son's new school.  In the last month I've attended 4-5 gatherings.  

For me it's never been typical for me to be passive about my social life nor did I consider whether most people were - I considered what was right for me.

As far as the percentage of women it depends on the activity -with volunteer work for example if you work on building sets backstage for a community theater or helping with lighting design - I think you'll find it's fairly even male/female.  And a fair amount of single people or people who know single people.  

OP a lot of this is in your control and resorting to cold calling because you've chosen to be passive makes little sense.  

[waffle]

On 10/14/2022 at 8:33 PM, Whirling D said:

I don’t attract ladies easily. 

Maybe start with this. 

Why do you think that is?

[Whirling D]

Well, I think it’s only partially true that I have been passive… I think there are a lot of extenuating circumstances.

Let’s take a look at what I have not been passive about… I joined a band a few years ago, and have pretty much taken over a lot of the business side of the band, and we have been getting out to some neat places where I have been meeting some other musical type people. That’s been awesome, but it’s slow to progress, and it has its downsides, as previously mentioned.

I don’t have a ton of time or money to do a lot of things that most people might do. I have half custody of a 14-year-old kid, so I am with her half the week, and I only work part time, and prefer it that way… Since I am semi retired, so I pretty much live dime to dime.  That’s my choosing, and I have to live with that, and I am OK with that.  So, going to activities that cost money is pretty much out.   I live in a terribly  expensive area, and almost every activity is painful.

Why do I not attract a high caliber of women, or even a medium caliber for that matter?  I’m a little bit of a bohemian. I have long hair, and I am short and somewhat effeminate. I could control the long hair part, but I have no interest in doing that.  It’s my choice, but it’s not accepted by a good chunk of our culture.

I have found throughout my entire life, with overwhelming evidence, that it is almost entirely how I look that pretty much makes the difference. That certainly doesn’t mean that all short effeminate men don’t get dates, but I can assure you, it lowers the success rate immeasurably.

Over the years, I wondered about this and embarked in quite a few experiments, and the end result is, and was, that it’s how I look that makes the most difference. Height. Masculinity. It had nothing to do with how nice I am or how pleasant I am to be around. Of course, I’m not Mr. personality.   That seems to be a big draw with people within our culture. I think many people would probably say that they think I am kind of brainy and nerdy. I will refrain from telling you what kind of experiments that I did, but they were pretty conclusive… 😳😳

I do like the idea of being involved in different activities, and I try to do that when I can… Someone mentioned meet up, which I looked into… Just can’t find anything yet that I would really want to do.

I feel that as I age, my priorities are changing, and I don’t just want to go do things that I can’t afford and that I don’t really enjoy doing that much, just to meet someone. I suspect that sounds lazy, but I certainly can’t help how I feel about it.  There are just too many things I enjoy doing that are way more important to me.

As far as being passive leading to me not being invited to parties. Frankly, I think that’s bullocks. At work, I was always smiley and willing to say hi and be nice to everyone… I thought I was very kind. But most of the guys at work wanted to talk about the basketball game on TV last night, or the tailgating that they did at the football game. That stuff just doesn’t interest me, so spending time with them at lunch didn’t lead to any kind of real bonding.  I can talk about sports a little bit, but a lot of guys run much deeper than that. Many if not most do. They did. I didn’t.  

I think I am often seen as an oddball and a weirdo. I don’t at all feel that about myself, and I don’t deliberately live my life to be that way. I try to be as authentic as I can and just be who I am. That has been attacked pretty much since I was a little kid. I could go on and on. 

 

 

 

[Batya33]

Volunteer work costs very little $ meaning the transportation to get there.  I preferred shorter men, my husband is short.  I think he's very masculine.  I'm not sure what you mean by effeminate (I was not attracted to men with effeminate voices or mannerisms but I know of many women who are).  

That's great you have a band -doesn't that cost you $ of some sort?

You sound like you give yourself lots of credit for "trying" -but what I found when I wanted a social life and to meet people to date was it wasn't about trying.  But actions.  Even small actions.  Meaning at the end of a long day of work I still went to the homeless shelter to volunteer once a week.  Meaning I still read the book for my book club and met up with the other members (that cost a little $ depending if we met at a restaurant or someone's home).  Meaning I still attended a religious service, met up with friends, etc.  Meaning if I went to a singles event I made myself stay at least 45 minutes and talk to at least 3 people I didn't know then I could leave.  Small things but not "trying". Acting.  And no excuses.  

Be honest with yourself about how badly you want a social life/dating life.  I was honest with myself and knew I wanted marriage and family more than anything.  Perhaps the only equally important thing was my professional life/career. Which I went all out for for years until I got to a professional level I was satisfied with. 

So I went all out similarly for dating, etc..  For years.  It was all worth it despite zero guarantees I'd meet the right person (which I accepted as -you know, life isn't fair).

. But if you're meh about it and going to just "try" and make excuses you're kind of spinning your wheels and perhaps you do not want it badly enough.  

 

[smackie9]

Age means nothing. I have some friends that are 20 years younger than me. The reason why no one invites you out is because you don't go out of your way to interact with people to get to know about them and for them to get to know about you. Things don't fall into your lap, you have to put real effort into it. Women are not attracted to men who are submissive, can't socialize, no confidence. I suggest you take an assertive training course. You can also take some classes on public speaking to push you out of your comfort zone. 

[waffle]

On 10/14/2022 at 8:33 PM, Whirling D said:

Perhaps for one of the first time in my life, I am not hating being single… Which is very unusual. I guess I am thankful for that.

OP did say this ^ ^ ^

No crime in being single.

[Batya33]

2 hours ago, waffle said:

OP did say this ^ ^ ^

No crime in being single.

 Not only is there no crime it’s a very positive way to live for those people who enjoy having friends and family and activities and do not enjoy being married or engaged. No biggie. Common sense. 

[Whirling D]

On 10/17/2022 at 10:16 AM, smackie9 said:

I don’t think this really true.

If anything, I’ve had people say that they think that I ask too many questions, and that I seem too friendly, and to some it seems suspicious, or a little creepy.

I remember I went out on an Internet date about three years ago, and she was a fairly nice lady, and I did what I always do, I pretty much steered the conversation with questions about her life, where she grew up, where she went to school, what kinds of things she likes… That’s just who I am, and what interests me.

I remember after about 20 minutes, she stopped suddenly with a very annoyed look on her face and said, “why are you asking me so many questions? What are you trying to find out?”

I think it may be a cultural thing. I didn’t move to my current location until I was 18 years old, and although I am only about 600 miles from where I used to live, it’s a different country, and people are just… Well… Different.

when I go back there to visit, it seems that people like to talk. They don’t just talk at you, they talk to you. It seems that they are interested in knowing who you are, and what you think. It’s not as much like that down here. It almost feels like people talk more at you, then to you.  I think that’s just a regional difference.  

I think personality has a lot to do with it, as well. Many people where I am gravitate towards personality more than they do other characteristics. I’m kind of on the simple side, almost farmboy kind of personality… That has indeed changed over the last bunch of years, but I still am not at all the life of the party, nor do I convey myself as someone who is the life of the party. I think that’s a really important thing for many women where I live.  Almost all the dating sites have women that will say it… I want financial security, I want masculinity, I want personality. I don’t really have any of those things in spades.  I have lots of other attributes, but it’s hard for me to attract others that are similar.

[Wiseman2]

On 10/14/2022 at 8:33 PM, Whirling D said:

… I saw her walking down the street with her dog today, and wondered how I could break the ice with this girl, and what manner would be appropriate.

 Do you guys think it is inappropriate to send cold call messages to people through social media sites, 

Social media dating is more popular now. It's referred to as "sliding into DMs". But it's more popular in the 20something groups.

If this dog walker never responded in the past, it's doubtful this approach would work. Besides, you were just watching and wondering. You don't even know if she's in a relationship or whatever.

Try more appropriate methods. Quality and paid dating apps. You're also in your prime for the over 50 niche dating apps.

You've been in your current location for 40+ years, so you can't really keep using the mentality differential as an excuse.

Having FB friends is fine but it could come off as "creepy" if you don't know them whatsoever except for their posts and try to ask them out.

Linkedin in is purely for professional contacts and you'll get reported/banned for trying to use the site to contact women for dating, as that's a violation of their terms of service..

You seem to want to retain this gestalt of stranger in a strange land or bohemian or misunderstood outlier. However that has nothing to do with it. You may have to update your look so you don't date yourself and appear stuck in the past.

And yes unfortunately in the 60ish age bracket, women are going to look at finances and retirement. There's a phenomenon of "grey divorce", so google that.

So it's ok to be sort of offbeat but trying too hard to be that way at 60 can start to come off as "eccentric" rather than quirky or edgy like in your 20s.

It's important to live in the present and not in your hayday.

[James516]

It's very telling that you say you have worked for over a decade with 75 people and never were invited to one of their social gatherings. That is a sign of someone who doesn't connect with people which means that could continue regardless of the environment. I see that you have posted quite a lot about the world not being ready for the uniqueness of Whirling D and being shy, and that's fine. To connect, though, sometimes you're going to have to expand the territory of topics to talk about in order to establish a baseline of connecting or when asking a question and listening, also contribute something about yourself that relates to what the person just said instead of going on to the next question. That way the person feels heard and gives the conversation a chance to move forward,

It's not "creepy" to message someone on Facebook, but don't lead with anything about her looks. If there is a picture at a restaurant or local area, start by asking about that place and reply about something similar you know about. Or with the dog walker, always start by commenting about the dog, what breed, etc. But always keep in mind, that you are not contacting them on a dating site, so that person may simply not be into talking with someone new. Or want to have their dog time interrupted. In those cases, it's creepy not to move on.

[boltnrun]

I used to not get invited to things with coworkers. So I asked one of them who I felt comfortable with why. And thankfully she was honest. She told me I seldom smiled and I came across as a "hardass". People thought I was two seconds away from chastising them for something and that made them want to avoid me. I also had "RBF". Jeez...

So I made it a point to have a more friendly, more approachable demeanor. I didn't want to walk around grinning like some kind of psycho idiot but I could make it a point to smile and say hello to people. I also stopped having lunch by myself and started sitting with a group. 

And honestly, what got me into my friend group was a total fluke. A coworker was telling me about how she and a couple other coworkers were getting together after work. She has manners so she realized it was kind of rude to talk about it and not invite me. So she did. I am smart enough to realize she was only inviting me to be polite but I decided to go anyway. And two of the people who were there are now two of my closest friends.

As for dog walking woman, there's nothing wrong with saying hello to her when you see her (but don't chase her down the street lol). But approaching her on social media "cold", I vote no.

[Cherylyn]

I would consider it creepy to FB message your neighbor even if you are extremely tactful, well mannered and NOT goofy. 

Do you have a dog?  The next time you see her,  perhaps you can ask if you can walk your dog while she takes her dog for a walk.  Be nice and neighborly without talking too much.  Just make small talk.  Don't come on too strong otherwise you will definitely be perceived as creepy.  Don't hound her.  No pun intended, LOL.  If she ignores you, perhaps you can water your flowers while she walks near your house and you can chat a bit.  Be kind without overbearing.  Be brief because you don't want to be perceived as strange and weird which is a red flag.

Is this neighbor within your age bracket or much younger?  Perhaps she's married or has a boyfriend.  Most homeowners in my residential neighborhood are married. 

If she is aloof towards you and continues to ignore you, don't pursue her.  Don't bother her.  Be mindful and show respect. 

I can't speak for all women.  However, I don't like it when a man may have good intentions yet they have a dark, shady side to them such as highly emotionally charged personality, engages in easy use of foul language and if they don't agree or accept what they read or hear, they'll slam you to bits.  There's a lack of emotional intelligence (empathy) which are huge red flags.  Never act like a jerk because women look upon this type of lack of impulse control with great disdain.  It's a real turnoff.  ☹️  It's not so much maddening but disappointing because many women gave a man the benefit of the doubt until the man's real, true, unsavory, ugly colors emerged.  It's like a 'Dr. Jekkyl and Mr. Hyde' personality.  Two faced.  Therefore, be careful and tread lightly otherwise rejection is commonplace and once rejection is ingrained in a woman's mind, it's over and a done deal.  One slip up and you're toast forever.  You can't be trusted ever again because women discover a weak spot in your character.  They thought you were better than that and then you deceived them because you're not the honorable man they thought you were.  Always possess priceless integrity.  Just a tip to save you a lot of grief later.  Better to be careful in the first place and consistently well behaved otherwise your cover is blown permanently and your sullied reputation is irrevocably broken. 

 

[Whirling D]

Thank you everyone for chiming in…

I have enjoyed hearing what everyone has to say. You’ve brought up interesting points, and I’m trying to hear them objectively.

Sometimes, it feels Hard to be objective, particularly when you’ve heard the same old song and dance over and over again for most of your life. It leaves an impression that is hard to overcome.

I don’t know how others respond to rejection, but I’ve heard it over and over in romantic situations as well as just people that don’t even know me, and maybe I’m too sensitive… And I need to grow thicker skin.

But truthfully, it’s hard to refute hearing things from people over and over again and not thinking that it’s just because you are different than they are that you are being ostracized from the rest.

I’ve had people being mean because I speak with a different accent than they do. I have been the subject of harassment because I look feminine.  I went on an Internet date once when the lady walked out before we even sat down because, “she wanted a real man, not a boy“.  

There is something to be said about changing my look and style to reflect a more modern sensibility. I just don’t want to. I’d rather find people that are OK with people being and doing who they want to be.

A couple of years ago, after my divorce, I had a good friend’s wife say to me… “Are you going to cut your hair and look for a better job before you start dating again?“  I was actually uncommonly offended, and answered with “why in the world would I do that? I want someone that can be thoughtful enough to let me be who I am, rather than to expect me to be something I’m not“. She was perplexed and said that few women are going to want someone with long hair who is barely employed. This was a friend saying this.  It was hugely hurtful and discouraging.

Multiple times over the years I’ve had people just say mean nasty things with absolutely no provocation. I remember once I was working as a host at a restaurant, and I walked into the kitchen, and the line cook started saying really nasty things, and said “I don’t like you, so stay away from me”.

I hadn’t said boo to this fellow in the 6 months that I had been working there up until that point. So, for those of you that think that it is in my head that people who are different are separated from the crowd might want to think again until you are a part of that group that is ostracized.  

I have no shortage of topics that I can reasonably talk about, no deficit of conversational skills… I feel like I come across as quite friendly and genuine. But that doesn’t seem to be enough within the culture that I live. That’s pretty clear.  My therapist calls it cognitive dissonance, and thinks that I convince myself to feel this way to avoid my own deficits. I think it’s baloney.  

Does it seem like I feel sorry for myself? I do. But, I don’t spend my days going boo-hoo. I spend my days trying to be happy, and doing the things that I need to do and the things that I enjoy doing, and when I go out, I do my best to be kind and considerate and be pleasant and happy towards others.

that may be part of the reason that I am not even sure I care anymore to be partnered. I’d almost rather just use whatever years I have left to be happy on my own, than to have to constantly be putting up with this kind of bull*** from an angry mob mentality.

Hundreds of dating emails sent over the years with virtually no return emails kind of speaks for itself.

Yet, I still keep trying.

I wrote the lady that lives in the adjacent neighborhood another note on the dating site, and after a week, no response.

I have no real way of knowing whether she has seen the note, since for all I know, she may not be a paying customer and may not have even seen my email.

Therefore, I will probably take my dog out to the rail trail on the days that I’ve seen her there before and take my chances that maybe someday I’ll bump into her. I don’t think I’ll have the nuts to send her a message through Facebook. Same with the other lady on there, although she has been liking some of my posts again after eight months of avoiding it after I actually reached out to her through messenger. 

Part of me wants to show you the brief messenger interaction I had with her last New Year’s, just to see if you think…  because as innocuous as it was, it seemed to have scared her away, given that she was liking Facebook posts prior to that, and dead silence for eight months afterward.  It was really just a simple goofy exchange to say hi, although she didn’t say much. She was clearly avoidant. Left nothing that indicated that she had any interest in hearing from me again. She was polite, and humorous, but not at all encouraging.

I have read before that women in those kinds of situations don’t respond well to wishy-washy correspondences, and yes, mine was wishy-washy. I did not make it really clear what my interest was when I messaged her… I just told her I wanted to say hi, but then did nothing to close the deal. I have read that that is a dealbreaker with women, if you’re going to message them you have to make it clear why you are messaging them. I failed to do that.

Sorry for my usual long winded rant… But I do appreciate all that you guys have written. Thank you!

[Wiseman2]

5 hours ago, Whirling D said:

.  My therapist calls it cognitive dissonance, and thinks that I convince myself to feel this way to avoid my own deficits. 

Your therapist has an excellent point. Ask your therapist about "help-rejecting-complaining". It's another symptom that could be addressed.

If you disagree with your therapist, you could go to a physician for an evaluation of your physical and mental health. Get tests done.

Many many physical issues can manifest as depression and/or the inertia you describe.

Even the intense resistance to help yourself or change self-defeating actions that you feel is "individuality", but it bothers you on some level otherwise you would be happy marching to your own drummer rather than upset by it.

For example there's a difference between being uniquely you and limping around as a wounded version of yourself. The former is not cognitive dissonance, but the latter is.

[Batya33]

I think financial stability is important for an adult to have who wants to date with potential for a serious relationship -as well as employment stability if at all possible.  Certainly I dated men who were unemployed temporarily -and looking hard for new employment -but I didn't date men who were extremely underemployed unless they were also pursuing being an artist or starting their own business and as long as they were doing so with financial stability -a nest egg/savings.  I could be friends with that person but not date them seriously if that was not the case.

Your friend's wife was overly blunt and harsh. And she is right if you want to date someone who is financially stable with a job and decent work ethic who will expect the same in a partner. If you don't care if the woman you date is employed or how she deals with money, etc then it doesn't matter.

Feminine mannerisms/voice tones always were a huge turn off for me when I was dating AND I know of many women who married men with those mannerisms and voice tones (straight, heterosexual women). 

One man I knew shared that he met hundreds of women through online dating (including me!) before he met his wife -and they've been together many years now.  I set him up with several of my women friends and a few of them thought he wasn't straight because of his mannerisms and voice tone (he is).  I also wouldn't date men who wore their hair long but would be friends with them -again personal preference.  I know of many women with men who have long hair.

Dating does require a thick skin for sure.  I'm sorry you feel rejected.  I would accept that if you choose to wear your hair long and -to the extent you choose to present in feminine ways(vs. it being out of your control) -and to the extent you are underemployed -that will limit your dating pool. 

My dating pool also was limited in my 30s because I wanted a man willing to have children sooner than later, a man who didn't prefer large chested women, and a man who wanted marriage and didn't yet have kids of his own (a strong preference of mine) plus the financial stability/well educated.  I wasn't going to settle and at times I reevulated my musts list to make sure I was being realistic.  As I think I wrote above I started dating my future husband when I turned 39.  We married when we were 42.  

Good luck!

[Whirling D]

Well… I often disagreed with my therapist and her characteristic of scientific concepts… I may have mentioned, but there have been many academic studies that have pretty much disproven that brain chemistry has a direct link to depression, and that SSRIs are all but useless in that regard, no better than placebo pills.   University College of London, 2022 …Journal of Molecular Psychiatry, 2022.

My therapist all but called me naive, and pretty much said that I was arguing with somebody with a PhD in psychology,  and thought those theories were conspiracy theories. Had no interest in looking them up or to validate what I was trying to say. Many of you probably feel the same. If you don’t believe me look up these studies. There’s many of them.

Could my lack of hope be cognitive dissonance? A little bit. I don’t think most of it is.

Many of you think that I am resistant to change or to Hearing alternate opinions. I’ve spent most of my life listening to alternate opinions. It hasn’t gotten me far.

Yes, I could change my hair, but even in the past when I had short hair, it wasn’t that different. I still couldn’t attract many women if my life depended on it.  Almost zero.

I think it is pretty much entirely how I look, and less so my mannerisms, but that factors in there as well. It’s in no way how nice I am, or how friendly I am. Might be that I’m not the life of the party.

I guess I have to bring out the big gun story… About 15 years ago, I was on a major dating site. I would send out literally hundreds of emails over about a year and get virtually no responses.

I suspected it was because how I looked, so I did an experiment. A rather diabolical one. I left my profile exactly as it was, and I always thought it was a very well written profile… And I went to a part of the dating site from a different city across the country to the men’s section and I copied a picture of just a regular looking guy… Not a guy that was particularly all American, just a regular looking computer programmer kind of guy… And I inserted his photo in place of mine.

By the time I woke up in the morning, I had in the vicinity of 50 emails from women in my inbox. No less than 50. Some of them from women that I would have given my front teeth to be able to interact with.

Still not convinced? I am.

One of my friends lost his wife a few weeks ago, sadly, and he decided, same as I did after my marriage ended, that he would Jump back on the same dating site that I currently am on.  He says he has nonstop women messaging him. He has already been on three dates from the dating site, and he has already slept with one woman that he has known for a while. It’s only been about a month.

He’s relatively tall, and considerably more masculine looking than I am. Doesn’t have anything else over me, really. As far as I can tell anyway.

The last two girls that I have dated over the last three years didn’t care i have long hair and I didn’t have any money.  They were quite impressed that money doesn’t really mean a whole lot to me, and also that I had created my own small business, even though it’s barely keeping me afloat.

Where I grew up, nobody had any money. That was pretty much the status quo. When I go up to visit where my parents still live, nobody up there really has any money either, and they pretty much live by simple means. I respect that and I value it. These recent ladies did, as well.

Those parts of those relationships were great, but we were missing other elements. I just can’t seem to attract the kind of girls that I think would be right for me who also don’t really care that I have long hair or don’t have any money.  That seems to almost be crossing social lines, in a sense. I’m somebody that kind of presents as blue-collar/working class, and attract as such, but has a white collar demeanor. I can’t seem to mix those two socially.

As I mentioned… I don’t spend my day sitting around pouting and whining that I don’t have a girlfriend. This time around, I’ve kind of given up on it, and have been at least OK doing the things that give me enjoyment… But I still have a little twinkle of hope, as I have for my entire life, that something will come along, someday. Maybe. Hopefully. But maybe not. Who knows. I don’t.

 

 

[Batya33]

8 hours ago, Whirling D said:

The last two girls that I have dated over the last three years didn’t care i have long hair and I didn’t have any money.  They were quite impressed that money doesn’t really mean a whole lot to me, and also that I had created my own small business, even though it’s barely keeping me afloat.

Where I grew up, nobody had any money. That was pretty much the status quo. When I go up to visit where my parents still live, nobody up there really has any money either, and they pretty much live by simple means. I respect that and I value it. These recent ladies did, as well.

Yes -they sound financially stable -they get by - and perhaps they will struggle as far as not having enough savings to retire but this is stability. Some people do want more than stability it's true but a person who wants stability to me has solid financial values. A person who lives paycheck to paycheck and is in debt and doesn't know if he/she can afford their next meal and this is a chronic situation likely cannot be in a romantic relationship where the expectation is that the couple will be able to live in a stable way, pay bills, have minimal debt, and live comfortably (which is subjective I know but there are also fairly standard understandings of what this means).

You seem to view having "no money" as to be respected - certainly yes for a person who is on his or her own if he/she wants to live that way, perhaps a nomadic type of life or barely subsisting more power to them -but as a couple -or as a family -then it becomes more collective and most women do not want to live with that level of financial uncertainty especially if kids are involved nor do they want to work full time to fund their husband's struggling business that isn't making a profit for example.

All your photo deception demonstrates is those women who focus on photos and liked the features of the fake photo clicked yes.  It doesn't mean any of those women are single or available or available for a relationship or would be interested in going on a date with you after a first meet.  

I never clicked on a male photo if he had long hair.  I knew it was a dealbreaker for me for marriage potential.  He could be gorgeous, etc but I was looking for a potential match for marriage and I knew I wouldn't be attracted long term and I knew chances were if he made that choice it likely went deeper than just not having time for a haircut.