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I am heartbroken.


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Hello all, 

Not too long ago I posted about my wife and I's conundrum about our children's feelings around our pandemic cautions we are taking. 

A lot has happened since then. Our daughter has decided to move out sooner than we expected and has been in her place for a week now. As with any child that moves out and as we move closer to the empty nester stage, it is very bittersweet to see her go. However, she has just sprouted something upon us that is leaving us in a very tough place.

She moved in at the beginning of this week, and visited us back home this afternoon to say hello, and we all went back to her place this evening to help her shop a bit more and help her install a few more furniture pieces.

Once we returned back to her home from shopping, when walking up to her building, my wife, son and I all had masks on, yet she walked back to her place without one. I asked her, "What if someone comes by down the stairs?" She answered, "I'm fine."

When we returned inside, I asked her, "When you go in and out your apartment, have you not been wearing masks?" She answered she has not, because it is outside and "transmission is low outside." (Though it is still a POSSIBILITY, and if you are passing someone very close by on the stairs, that airborne virus can still infect you even outside.) She also informed us that when she has been at parks and other places outside, she does not mask, and has also stopped washing her groceries and wearing gloves. She said she will still mask indoors in crowded places, but will stop these other precautions, and already has for a week now.

We discussed this last time, and you know how my wife and I feel about this. Not only am I, frankly, very upset that she did at least not give us the grace to inform us of her decisions BEFORE we spent time together UNMASKED with each other, but she is very stubborn about loosening these precautions and refuses to budge. To add salt onto the wound, she flippantly offered that when she visits, if we are uncomfortable, we can all wear masks around each other and she will take a COVID test before she comes over. She even suggested if she visits, we can visit masked-up in a park if "we are so uncomfortable."

This is not the way it should be. We should be able to enjoy our daughter's presence in our home without masks. But she has flippantly cast this off, and selfishly is changing the way we can interact with her now. Just because she is grown doesn't mean she knows everything, but it really hurts to see she has decided she can throw caution to the wind and severely limit our interactions with her because she feels she can.

 

 

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Sounds like daughter is asserting her adult self. She's giving you a choice of options from which you can select to meet her, or not, but the whole point of moving out was to begin living her own life her own way.

If you don't want to visit her inside her apartment to help her, she may opt to gain the experience of hiring a gig worker to help her set up furniture.

Consider teaching daughter how to negotiate compromises, and if either you or she are not willing to do that, can assert your own boundaries and limit your own interactions with daughter.

 

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I don't think she is being selfish.  I think you should take your mask off inside your home. Find a mirror - and look - at the person who is being self-absorbed and trying to impose draconian restrictions on your adult and independent daughter.

Transmission of covid is very low outside and passing someone by inside won't do it -there has to be far longer exposure even inside.  You have some psychological issues and irrational fears because remote risks are just that -remote. Do you cross streets? Drive a car -go in a vehicle? Much more likely -heaven forbid-for you to be in a life altering accident that way.  Heaven forbid. 

More than once in the last month in my busy city I've crossed the street with a steady green light.  My phone is away- I am looking everywhere to be careful.  And regardless I would have been hit by someone running the red light/not slowing down at all had I not been 100% alert with my green light during the day in perfectly fine weather. 

I am going to cross another street in about an hour.  It's not stopping me.  Why are you letting remote risks stop you? And why in the world would you hamper your relationship with your daughter your wife birthed or that you adopted -isn't that a much greater risk??

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8 hours ago, DesignerPrize2 said:

To add salt onto the wound, she flippantly offered that when she visits, if we are uncomfortable, we can all wear masks around each other and she will take a COVID test before she comes over. She even suggested if she visits, we can visit masked-up in a park if "we are so uncomfortable."

But she is right. Your authoritarian ways made her a hermit with no friends and boyfriend. Now she wants to experience life by her own rules. One of them is to not be so afraid that she needs to wear a mask outside. She can respect your rules at your own home. In hers home and life, she can do what she wants. She is 24, not a kid.

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8 hours ago, DesignerPrize2 said:

Hello all, 

Not too long ago I posted about my wife and I's conundrum about our children's feelings around our pandemic cautions we are taking. 

A lot has happened since then. Our daughter has decided to move out sooner than we expected and has been in her place for a week now. As with any child that moves out and as we move closer to the empty nester stage, it is very bittersweet to see her go. However, she has just sprouted something upon us that is leaving us in a very tough place.

She moved in at the beginning of this week, and visited us back home this afternoon to say hello, and we all went back to her place this evening to help her shop a bit more and help her install a few more furniture pieces.

Once we returned back to her home from shopping, when walking up to her building, my wife, son and I all had masks on, yet she walked back to her place without one. I asked her, "What if someone comes by down the stairs?" She answered, "I'm fine."

When we returned inside, I asked her, "When you go in and out your apartment, have you not been wearing masks?" She answered she has not, because it is outside and "transmission is low outside." (Though it is still a POSSIBILITY, and if you are passing someone very close by on the stairs, that airborne virus can still infect you even outside.) She also informed us that when she has been at parks and other places outside, she does not mask, and has also stopped washing her groceries and wearing gloves. She said she will still mask indoors in crowded places, but will stop these other precautions, and already has for a week now.

We discussed this last time, and you know how my wife and I feel about this. Not only am I, frankly, very upset that she did at least not give us the grace to inform us of her decisions BEFORE we spent time together UNMASKED with each other, but she is very stubborn about loosening these precautions and refuses to budge. To add salt onto the wound, she flippantly offered that when she visits, if we are uncomfortable, we can all wear masks around each other and she will take a COVID test before she comes over. She even suggested if she visits, we can visit masked-up in a park if "we are so uncomfortable."

This is not the way it should be. We should be able to enjoy our daughter's presence in our home without masks. But she has flippantly cast this off, and selfishly is changing the way we can interact with her now. Just because she is grown doesn't mean she knows everything, but it really hurts to see she has decided she can throw caution to the wind and severely limit our interactions with her because she feels she can.

 

 

Sorry Dad, but you're in the wrong here.

She is a grown woman, and she is allowed to deal with Covid and the precautions, however she chooses to.

She no longer lives in your home, that means she can abide by her own rules (not yours).

You don't have any say about it, nor should you.

The only thing you can do, is let her know that you feel at threat by her possibly having Covid, or potentially passing it onto you and not allowing her over, or visiting her.

But what you cannot do, is tell her how to live her life, or demanding she (in her own home) lives with the same precautions you do in your home.

(I am still masking by the way, and I do take precautions as well. But that doesn't give me the right to put the same demands on my other family members who live elsewhere).

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1 hour ago, Kwothe28 said:

But she is right. Your authoritarian ways made her a hermit with no friends and boyfriend. Now she wants to experience life by her own rules. One of them is to not be so afraid that she needs to wear a mask outside. She can respect your rules at your own home. In hers home and life, she can do what she wants. She is 24, not a kid.

It is not "authoritarian" to ask my daughter to follow reasonable precautions that will continue to keep her safe and us safe when we visit.

I am also concerned for my daughter's health. YOUNG PEOPLE STILL DIE AND GET SEVERELY ILL FROM COVID TOO.

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5 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Wear your mask everywhere 24/7. She is lucky to be free of you and your draconian ways, but she's not responsible for whether you wear masks or not. She's a 24 year old woman. What "hurts" you is that you lost this cult-like control over her.

If you and your wife want to wear hazmat suits everywhere no one is stopping you. Your daughter needs to live her own (normal) life, away from your madness.

If you don't like it and feel paranoid you'll get Covid, that's ok. Keep your masks on 24/7 and live like reclusives.

 

I was trusting my daughter was still following reasonable precautions so we could safely visit her without a mask. Knowing that now, things are different. So no, we will not loosen up on what has protected us thus far to accommodate her need for freedom or who knows what.

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49 minutes ago, SherrySher said:

Sorry Dad, but you're in the wrong here.

She is a grown woman, and she is allowed to deal with Covid and the precautions, however she chooses to.

She no longer lives in your home, that means she can abide by her own rules (not yours).

You don't have any say about it, nor should you.

The only thing you can do, is let her know that you feel at threat by her possibly having Covid, or potentially passing it onto you and not allowing her over, or visiting her.

But what you cannot do, is tell her how to live her life, or demanding she (in her own home) lives with the same precautions you do in your home.

(I am still masking by the way, and I do take precautions as well. But that doesn't give me the right to put the same demands on my other family members who live elsewhere).

We want her to be SAFE. I don't want to see her struggling to breathe on a hospital bed either. I do not want to see her body permanently damaged from Long Covid. Yes, when she is putting herself in risk of these things, I will encourage her to do otherwise.

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I remember comments from last time saying that washing groceries is useless. 

Yes, this virus is airborne, but I am all about risk management. If there is still a chance remaining that my family can contract this virus by surface touch, I am willing to take this small burden (washing groceries) to protect myself. Similarly to walking outside, I am willing to pop a mask on to protect myself.

We have always washed produce, obviously. But we wash the outside of food containers, and if we are in the car, we bring along baby wipes to wipe down food containers in case we want to snack inside the car. In fact, this is how this whole conversation with our daughter began. We bought some chips inside the store and she just popped hers open and started eating without wiping her hands. And she said she is "not doing that anymore."

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29 minutes ago, DesignerPrize2 said:

It is not "authoritarian" to ask my daughter to follow reasonable precautions that will continue to keep her safe and us safe when we visit.

I am also concerned for my daughter's health. YOUNG PEOPLE STILL DIE AND GET SEVERELY ILL FROM COVID TOO.

Yes it is because you don't have to visit her in person at her home -you can meet up outdoors or facetime.  Young people unfortunately still die from many things and get severely ill from many things.  Are you going to take away her driver's license? Get guardianship over her so she cannot ever leave her house after dark because that's when crime rates increase? Do you allow her to eat processed foods? Sugar?

You are taking this way too far and overstepping. Yes if she tests positive for covid avoid seeing her in person until the infection has cleared.  Yes if you were exposed then get tested yourself (meaning if you see her then she tests positive next day or so as she did not feel ill/know she was ill).

If she has a bad cold don't see her unless she decides to test and tests negative. 

You are taking this way too far and again if you let her operate a vehicle, leave her home at night, or eat processed foods she is at just as much risk with her health and - if she gets hurt and needs a hospital you will be at risk visiting her there, yes? 

Please see how bizarrely far you are taking this.  Your risk of ruining your relationship with your daughter (and was your wife pregnant with her -she is your biological child -I mean why in the world with the risk of pregnancy complications and post complications would you have chosen to have your wife birth a child given your risk aversion as you describe here -you risked her health and your daughter's health much more than any covid risk by allowing her to continue with a pregnancy!  A bit hypocritical on your part dontcha think>

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32 minutes ago, DesignerPrize2 said:

I remember comments from last time saying that washing groceries is useless. 

Yes, this virus is airborne, but I am all about risk management. If there is still a chance remaining that my family can contract this virus by surface touch, I am willing to take this small burden (washing groceries) to protect myself. Similarly to walking outside, I am willing to pop a mask on to protect myself.

We have always washed produce, obviously. But we wash the outside of food containers, and if we are in the car, we bring along baby wipes to wipe down food containers in case we want to snack inside the car. In fact, this is how this whole conversation with our daughter began. We bought some chips inside the store and she just popped hers open and started eating without wiping her hands. And she said she is "not doing that anymore."

Why are you snacking inside your car? Why are you letting her eat chips and why are you? Isn't the risk of health complications from chips -especially your mindless eating while driving - much worse than any risk of covid from eating out of a container?

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36 minutes ago, DesignerPrize2 said:

And she said she is "not doing that anymore."

Good for her! She is finally standing up to your unnecessary ridiculous routines. I'm shocked you're eating in the car. That is a choking hazard.😝

You and your spouse (don't know which one wrote this) have every right to stay in your house, isolate and wear suits of armor when you go out.

But stop eating in the car. It' s driving hazard. And chips and snacks can cause a lot more disease processes than your chances of getting covid. Besides all those unnecessary chemicals you are using can give you cancer. You two are fixated on contamination but not well informed on appropriate healthcare.

Really it sounds like a cult where rituals are a form of control and generating fear of "the outside".

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It's not ok to blame her and be this upset with her because she is making her own choices.

She is going to do what she wants. Your only role here is to decide what level of interaction you will have with her knowing that.

And I don't believe for a second you simply assumed she'd be following all the same protocols once she left your house. I think you are just mad she's not doing as you say.

I'm happy she moved out. She will go nuts living amongst that kind of control .

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Just now, Wiseman2 said:

How exactly do you wash a box of cereal?🤔

So I never wiped down my groceries but we did quarantine those we could for a couple of days - you wash a box of cereal by wiping down the outside with a moist wipe.  I never wanted to do that -didn't want to risk chemicals getting in.  If it was perishable food in a takeout container I either transferred the internal food to a clean container or I handled the outside container with a napkin or paper in between me and the outer container.   I don't do that anymore. We didn't travel until we had vaccines and then yes I did eat directly from takeout containers while we were on the road -didn't wipe down.  I never ate inside a car or the like before there was a vaccine.

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1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

Good for her! She is finally standing up to your unnecessary ridiculous routines. I'm shocked you're eating in the car. That is a choking hazard.😝

You and your spouse (don't know which one wrote this) have every right to stay in your house, isolate and wear suits of armor when you go out.

You have been making the most wisecracks, Wiseman, but I don't believe you cannot see how my daughter is acting selfishly here.

She has just moved out. What parent does not want to visit her child, especially after such a big life change? And she won't do this one little thing (just masking outside! Just putting on a mask when she is going up and down her apartment's steps in case someone passes by!) and is ready to throw away seeing us for these small little freedoms. THAT is selfish.

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19 minutes ago, DesignerPrize2 said:

You have been making the most wisecracks, Wiseman, but I don't believe you cannot see how my daughter is acting selfishly here.

She has just moved out. What parent does not want to visit her child, especially after such a big life change? And she won't do this one little thing (just masking outside! Just putting on a mask when she is going up and down her apartment's steps in case someone passes by!) and is ready to throw away seeing us for these small little freedoms. THAT is selfish.

It's not little to her -it's an unnecessary inconvenience and feels controlling.

Example -I received my bivalent booster almost two weeks ago.  I go to my building's small fitness center daily around 5 am since last November.  I wear a mask on my chin.  There are no masks required. I wear it so just in case someone gets on the next treadmill I can pull it up over my nose. It's really really uncomfortable to wear it while on the treadmill.  So I pull it up and down so that I am only exposed a minute at a time for the time I am still on the treadmill.  It's annoying because it increases my sweat on my face and I have sensitive skin but I'm willing to make that sacrifice. I likely will continue despite the booster because the treadmill is close and if the person has obvious cold symptoms I mean I don't really want to catch a cold either. No fun.

I've never asked anyone on the next treadmill to wear a mask because they are not required.  I would feel better if he/she did but I follow the guidelines and wish to be neighborly and reasonable. 

If someone asked me to I would accommodate that person, wear the mask over my nose and mouth  and honestly I would hate it.  It would be really uncomfortable for me.  Your daughter is entitled to feel the same way AND choose comfort and convenience over acommodating your trying to control her from afar.  Masks feel annoying and uncomfortable especially when they're not required anymore in that circumstance.  Please respect her wishes too. 

It's not all about you and no you don't have to see her indoors in person if you feel uncomfortable.  No she does not have to accommodate your draconian restrictions. If she asked you to stop eating chips because she doesn't want your life shortened and/or the burden of caring for you given the increased health risks would you stop? 

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Why do you keep posting on here when you say you disagree with everyone?

Your rules are unnecessary.  Basing your rules on outdated information from almost three years ago makes zero sense.

I'm very glad your daughter moved out.  Good for her.

You already said you're willing to risk completely losing your relationship with your daughter over your extreme, outdated, conspiracy-theory based Covid rules.  Looks like that's going to happen very soon.  

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Just now, boltnrun said:

You already said you're willing to risk completely losing your relationship with your daughter over your extreme, outdated, conspiracy-theory based Covid rules.  Looks like that's going to happen very soon.  

Why would you even put that out into the air? No one is losing a relationship over here. If we disagree forever on this, we can always FaceTime and call. Very unfortunate, yes, if she insists on being so stubborn and willing to put these small inconveniences over seeing her family, but it does not mean we will become estranged. 

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1 hour ago, DesignerPrize2 said:

You have been making the most wisecracks, Wiseman, but I don't believe you cannot see how my daughter is acting selfishly here.

She has just moved out. What parent does not want to visit her child, especially after such a big life change? And she won't do this one little thing (just masking outside! Just putting on a mask when she is going up and down her apartment's steps in case someone passes by!) and is ready to throw away seeing us for these small little freedoms. THAT is selfish.

That’s your view and your entitled to it. But you aren’t entitled to attempt to force your views on your daughter.
 

If you don’t wish to respect your daughter’s autonomy, that’s your choice. Then you have to accept the result of that choice. You aren’t entitled to be indignant about it. 

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4 hours ago, DesignerPrize2 said:

We bought some chips inside the store and she just popped hers open and started eating without wiping her hands. 

😮

Hopefully everyone survives this incredibly careless act.

I can't figure out what kind of responses you want here, DesignerPrize.  Let us know what you want us to say, because it's clear we're getting it all wrong.

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