Wife confessed to cheating on me before we were married...

[adviceseeker123]

15 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

What is your understanding as a couple as far as having friends of the opposite gender? Have you ever accused her before of crossing lines? 

Many years ago I dated a guy for about two months.  I was late 30s/he early 40s -never married, etc.  We were not exclusive yet.  I'd mentioned to him offhandedly that I had to go to a lot of networking events for work and it wasn't my favorite always especially after a long day of work.  One night we were out and I opened my main purse compartment. He peered in and saw a couple of business cards.  He said something like "I thought you said you didn't like networking" -meaning "why would you have all these business cards if you don't like networking/must mean you're trying to meet other guys" (yes this is exactly what he meant).  

That for me was the beginning of the end.  Once I was "accused" of having been untruthful plus pursuing other men (which I could have been doing anyway- we were not exclusive) - alarm bells went off. I did hang in there a few more weeks but building up trust is a nonstarter when that is the attitude.  Think about it. 

We have a lot of friends of opposite gender, nothing has ever been in question. Some might think I’m a complete fool for this, but I genuinely believe this is the only time anything like this has happened between us, regardless of how this is all shaking out. 
 

2 years ago she went on a vacation out of state for a week to visit one of her best friends and stay at his place. I never questioned anything happened between the two or anyone else during this time. It helped that they share a committed interest in the same gender, if it was a straight guy I’d obviously have problems with that, but who wouldn’t?

We have never really had a lack of trust in our relationship, and even though this has all come about recently, I still don’t question anything with men from work or male friends. 
 

I only question the situation that is in question…

[bluecastle]

43 minutes ago, adviceseeker123 said:

I simply stated, I’m getting the phone records, if there’s anything you recall differently let’s talk about it now because you already burned up your “I didn’t remember” excuse when I found his number in your phone, UNDER A GIRLS NAME... Kinda like hey… maybe you should sit down and try to remember because it’s harder to believe someone when they commit to one answer and evidence would say otherwise…The phone bill isn’t going to lie…

 This is not “simple” to me. The implication behind it is that you don’t believe a word she is saying, and don’t believe she is capable of forgetting a small detail of a moment from ten years ago. 

Which, hey, may be exactly where you are right now: furious, reeling, desperate for information, suspecting more happened than she’s telling you. Understandable. Hopefully what you find in the phone bill will be enough to put the evidence gathering/trial phase of this to rest and see about reconnecting. 

[Batya33]

39 minutes ago, bluecastle said:

 This is not “simple” to me. The implication behind it is that you don’t believe a word she is saying, and don’t believe she is capable of forgetting a small detail of a moment from ten years ago. 

Which, hey, may be exactly where you are right now: furious, reeling, desperate for information, suspecting more happened than she’s telling you. Understandable. Hopefully what you find in the phone bill will be enough to put the evidence gathering/trial phase of this to rest and see about reconnecting. 

If he actually gets the phone bill and she sees that he did and sees him reviewing it I think reconnecting for more than short term -meaning till the next real or imagined situation comes up where he has to take her at her word- is highly unlikely.  What he's doing seems motivated more to punish and show his power than to be close.  He will be "right" but he will impair any future closeness if she is a person with normal self esteem.

If my husband happened to see an email from my ex boyfriend from the mid 90s (the last one I received was about three years ago) - he would find nothing in that email or any emails we exchanged through the Linkedin site to rouse an ounce of suspicion.  But no I didn't tell him that he'd emailed me a couple of times over a couple of years and I didn't tell him that we caught up on impersonal details - how his kids were, his wife (who had cancer-so I inquired about her health), his job situation.  I made sure the conversation stuck to appropriate topics, we emailed a few times, and then a year or so later he checked in again. 

Nothing in the last 3 years.  I've never initiated contact nor would I nor do I wish to.  My husband would not mistrust me about it but it might annoy him - I don't need to know if an ex has reached out to him in this manner nor do I ask - and he doesn't ask me.  We trust each other and neither of us has ever cheated not even close.

  I know I'm 100% trustworthy and my husband has stayed in touch with exes in this similar way.  But if he insisted -if he saw one of the emails -and insisted on reading all the linkedin emails from the last 5 years I'd be livid with him if he didn't believe me that it was 100% appropriate.  I'd let him -nothing to hide -but my belief in our marriage would be tainted quite a bit.  

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, adviceseeker123 said:

The phone bill isn’t going to lie…

It's also not going to tell you what happened 9 years ago. It may tell you there were calls to a particular number. It also won't tell you how she feels, how your marriage is, etc. So the phone bill is exactly like a dark room with a light used to extract a confession.

[Batya33]

8 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

It's also not going to tell you what happened 9 years ago. It may tell you there were calls to a particular number. It also won't tell you how she feels, how your marriage is, etc. So the phone bill is exactly like a dark room with a light use to extract a confession.

Wow - great point - obviously I was too caught up in the paperwork and it's really not the point, is it.

[itsallgrand]

What do you mean when you say you are damaged goods so can't be on the offensive with this? That seemed out of nowhere....how are you damaged goods in any way and why would you say that?

[lostandhurt]

2 hours ago, adviceseeker123 said:

I’m not leaving my wife if that’s what you’re asking. 

I want to feel as though I can trust her…

No I was not asking that because you already stated you will not leave  the marriage over this kiss but since you brought it up.  You will not leave the marriage because of this but will your wife? How much more is she willing to take before she gets resentful of your distrust?

 I understand you want to trust her but what do you want to trust her about? The last 9 years that she hasn't "kissed" someone else or trust that she is remembering everything that happened 9 years ago?

  This is the problem as I see it here.  It was 9 years ago and a lot has happened so do you want her to guess? Tell you what you want to hear?  I don't think you should just say "Well it was 9 years ago so I will just forget it" because you will not just forget it so it does need to be dealt with now so it doesn't fester and ruin what you have both built.

Your question seems to be: "Was it only one kiss or was it an affair?" 

At some point you will need to make a leap of faith just like we do when we first meet someone and put our trust in them.

 If this is eating at you so seriously just go talk to this guy that she kissed.  Get his side of the story and if they line up then drop it.

 I will warn you again that the one thing you are trying to avoid by getting this all out into the open is the exact thing that just might happen if you are not careful.   The end of your marriage...

Lost

[Jaunty]

Yikes.  Honestly, I can't understand how your marriage can possibly survive the damage already done at this point, regardless of phone records or any other proof you decide you need, or sleuthing that you pursue in the coming weeks / months / years/ decades.  

I have been married; it lasted 14 years.  It was a very good marriage, until it wasn't, but that's not pertinent.  I really do understand how to function in a marriage and there are some truths.

You were not even married when she kissed the guy.  The timeline lost me but wasn't it 2 years later that you married, and now you've been married for 9 years?

Your focus on this one thing has already effectively erased everything that you and she have built together over the past years.   You are punishing her, she has to pay for her deed,  and no amount of digging seems to be enough.  It is pretty unlikely that you will ever just let this go and trust her.   Those days are over.

You could have chosen differently.  One approach that seems to resonate with me is that when you married, you started a new path together.   What happened before that joining together did not necessarily need to become the main feature informing your relationship a decade or more later.  But you chose for it to be so.  

A kiss is an indiscretion.   Even a sexual encounter can be seen that way.  If she has been a great partner to you between that time and now, why doesn't that take a high precedence over her youthful f-up?  Why?

Are you asked to be accountable for things that you did when you were barely out of adolescence (or still a teen - timeline confusion) by your wife?  I doubt it.  It's not something that really happens in healthy long term marriages between mature people.

I understand how this could have shaken you up, to a certain extent, but truly cannot relate to your determination to let it completely redefine your relationship and your opinion of a woman who has evidently not let you down during the entire time since you solemnly vowed to be a team and have each others' backs.

IMO once you found out about this kiss, that was the time to have a frank and open conversation about it.  Also it was the time for you to forgive, muster your self confidence, put your bruised ego in check, and carry on with the marriage you'd been enjoying up until then.

I'm sorry for you both and your kids too.

 

 

[smackie9]

We don't know how she felt back then or what led her to her decision. I try to stay neutral with these types of threads because in some way everyone is a victim of circumstance, everyone makes mistakes for whatever reason. The best choice is to get into couples therapy and individual therapy to work this out. There needs some questions answered, honesty and understanding. You can't go around snooping/investigating that will only exasperate the issue and may even end your marriage. I know you don't want that, so do the right thing, get professional help for the both of you. Remember kids are very perspective and sense the bad between you two no matter what you think...keep it out of their enviroment please. They don't need to be a witness to your troubles.

[Tinydance]

I probably agree with the fact that if they've been together 12 years and have three kids and otherwise everything is good, probably not the best idea to divorce over a kiss nine years ago. But what I don't get is how everyone seems to be blaming OP and saying he's wrong to question his wife and he should just get over it. Can everyone be honest here, if you found out your partner/spouse kissed another person and they had hidden that person's number under a different contact in their phone, how would you feel? Would you be like: "Oh they say it was just a kiss so it's all cool". Or would you feel upset and hurt? Like, he's allowed to feel something about it and want to ask questions. Also maybe it's nothing but she did hide that guy's phone number. Usually when people have nothing to hide, they don't hide anything. 

Also his wife got pregnant to him six months after dating which is fast but just because a woman is pregnant doesn't mean she has to be with the guy in a relationship. You can also co-parent and have an amicable relationship/friendship for the child. If the woman decides to actually be with the guy then she can't just kiss other guys and say: "Oh I did it because I didn't feel I was getting attention" or something like that. OP also said their child was already two years old at that time.

[Jaunty]

7 hours ago, Tinydance said:

 Can everyone be honest here, if you found out your partner/spouse kissed another person and they had hidden that person's number under a different contact in their phone, how would you feel? Would you be like: "Oh they say it was just a kiss so it's all cool". Or would you feel upset and hurt?

Being completely honest, I can say with absolute certainty that when I was in a relationship that spanned from my teen years into my late thirties,  neither of us were going to be held accountable for things that were said and done in the very immature times a decade or more earlier.  This would be different if there had been a pattern established over the years.  A one-off screw up?  No way would this have power over me or the relationship 10+ years later.

[Wiseman2]

14 hours ago, adviceseeker123 said:

 … I want the truth, I want to feel like she’s telling me 100% of the truth. I want to be able to trust her. 

It sounds like she's on trial and you're the judge. The phone records are going to reveal didly squat except what numbers were called.

You fail to mention if you've tried something simple like calling the number yourself. Who answers? Or are you afraid of doing that?

You're making a mountain out of a molehill. Not because of trust because of ego.

What's next? DNA testing on the kids? Where is the line in the sand?

And no, not everyone would go down this rabbit hole for a drunk kiss at a party a decade ago.

[Lambert]

20 hours ago, adviceseeker123 said:

If there’s nothing in the phone records then I’d say it’s safe to say she’s telling the truth (or majority of it) and we can begin to rebuild with the beginnings of trust

 

19 hours ago, adviceseeker123 said:

My wife 9 years ago that cheated on me, is not the woman I’m married to today. She is also a better version of herself… but the woman that my wife is today is the one that has to answer for the woman 9 years ago. 

This may be logical and what happens in a court of law, but I don't think its love... "she has to answer for who she was" 

but if the proof shows she is telling the truth, you'll give her a chance....

I don't think I could forgive my husband for treating me like this.  I think the damage is done here. On both sides.  Her for 9 years ago.  You for how you're handling this episode.  The bad news for you is, she can claim youth and stupidity.  How are justifying your behavior.

It's something to consider.

[catfeeder]

Just an FYI, folks. I’ve been at parties where someone will offer their number. I’m not even sure that I’ll ever use it, and I know I won’t remember their name. So rather than enter them as a contact, I’ll stick it under the host’s contact or an appropriate friend who I’ll associate with them.

I can’t fathom such an incident taking down a healthy 9 year marriage. If a partner ever questioned my trustworthiness because of it, stupid kiss or not, it would tell me far more about him than whatever he believes he doubts about me. And I’d be more concerned about getting him in for a neurological exam than whatever he expects to find on some old phone records.

Paranoia can be an early symptom of dementia or other conditions, and I’d view that as far more important to rule out than whether a decade ago I kissed a guy and I liked it.

[boltnrun]

On 8/11/2022 at 8:01 AM, adviceseeker123 said:

I checked her contacts and typed in his name, nothing. I then typed in his number, and a contact came up... It was a girl in her contacts and she added his number to it as a second phone number, clearly to hide it.

Was this in her current cell phone?  She still has his number saved in her current phone under a female's name?

[waffle]

40 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

Was this in her current cell phone?  She still has his number saved in her current phone under a female's name?

That doesn't necessarily mean anything.  I have several contacts in my phone that I haven't had any  communication at all with in over ten years.  I've had 3 - 4 phones in that amount of time and the contacts have automatically transferred.  Being that I don't use these contacts at all it's easy to just let them sit unnoticed.  One is named "Lee" which might sound suspicious with a non-gendered name like that, but there is literally nothing going on, then or now.  And of course not being married I can do whatever I want anyway, but I'm just saying.

[Kwothe28]

48 minutes ago, catfeeder said:

Just an FYI, folks. I’ve been at parties where someone will offer their number. I’m not even sure that I’ll ever use it, and I know I won’t remember their name. So rather than enter them as a contact, I’ll stick it under the host’s contact or an appropriate friend who I’ll associate with them.

 

Did you also cheated your SO with that person?

I am also against him pilling on her. He himself said that she is a great wife and mother now. So yes, something that happened way long in the past shouldnt negate that. But some of you are acting like she did nothing wrong. While in reality she did cheat. Even pulled the old "I felt lonely he didnt gave me enough attention" excuse. And yes, even kept his number which suggest something more then a kiss. 

In a situation like that can we really blame him for questioning her loyalty? Sometimes it only takes one thing for us to lose trust into person. His was this. But again, some of you are really acting like nothing happened. To the point I trully wonder what would you do if it would happened to you. Or, even what would you suggest if OP is a woman by that matter. Because lots of your(I mean in  general, not you in particular) answers would probably be way different lol

[Batya33]

3 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

In a situation like that can we really blame him for questioning her loyalty? Sometimes it only takes one thing for us to lose trust into person. His was this. But again, some of you are really acting like nothing happened. To the point I trully wonder what would you do if it would happened to you. Or, even what would you suggest if OP is a woman by that matter. Because lots of your(I mean in  general, not you in particular) answers would probably be way different lol

If it happened to me and he'd been lying about it/trying to cover it up I would be upset and lose trust.  I would want to know if this was a one time thing.  But I would know 100% that if I wanted to stay I had to choose either to accept his explanation -for me that would mean he was sorry it happened, that it never had happened again, that it would not happen again, and how he planned to make sure it would never happen again - and then I would decide whether his explanation made things right or better. 

But if I felt I had to go to the lengths he is going to I would choose to leave instead.  Now if he said to me -with genuineness -look, I also can show you that this is the truth -meaning maybe he knew someone else who was there, maybe he had phone records around, whatever backup he offered -would I look at his offered backup? Maybe.  But that's a far cry from going on this forensic PI expedition.  

[waffle]

18 hours ago, Tinydance said:

I probably agree with the fact that if they've been together 12 years and have three kids and otherwise everything is good, probably not the best idea to divorce over a kiss nine years ago. But what I don't get is how everyone seems to be blaming OP and saying he's wrong to question his wife and he should just get over it. Can everyone be honest here, if you found out your partner/spouse kissed another person and they had hidden that person's number under a different contact in their phone, how would you feel? Would you be like: "Oh they say it was just a kiss so it's all cool". Or would you feel upset and hurt? Like, he's allowed to feel something about it and want to ask questions. .

"Upset and hurt" and asking for clarification is one thing.  Bullying and harassing is a whole 'nother animal.  This is borderline abusive.  I know OP was quick to point out in his first post that he has never and would never hit a woman, but this is often how psychological abusers give themselves permission to abuse, is by saying "but I've never hit anyone."  Also noted in the first post was how the W didn't disclose this at the time out of fear of how her H would react.  

If this is standard practice in the marriage, the problems are WAY bigger than some seconds-long kiss almost a decade ago.

[boltnrun]

30 minutes ago, waffle said:

That doesn't necessarily mean anything.  I have several contacts in my phone that I haven't had any  communication at all with in over ten years.  I've had 3 - 4 phones in that amount of time and the contacts have automatically transferred.  Being that I don't use these contacts at all it's easy to just let them sit unnoticed.  One is named "Lee" which might sound suspicious with a non-gendered name like that, but there is literally nothing going on, then or now.  And of course not being married I can do whatever I want anyway, but I'm just saying.

That's exactly my point.  He seems to believe the number being in her phone is suspicious, but I have people's numbers in my phone from YEARS ago and I haven't had any contact with them in forever.  

[Wiseman2]

On 8/11/2022 at 11:01 AM, adviceseeker123 said:

Its started taking a toll on our marriage now as its the toxic thoughts I'm having and she keeps telling me, "I've told you everything from that night, and nothing more happened, what don't you understand?" She's even made comments that "the constant going back and forth will kill our marriage off before the "not coming clean", so I'd rather tell you if more happened so we can move on, and save our marriage before its too late, but nothing more happened"

This is true. It's taking a toll. She's right. Your interrogations, accusations and innuendos and so on will kill the marriage a lot faster than a kiss at a party 9 years ago.

[Wonderstruck]

12 hours ago, catfeeder said:

Paranoia can be an early symptom of dementia or other conditions, and I’d view that as far more important to rule out than whether a decade ago I kissed a guy and I liked it.

This comment was unnecessarily vicious, uncalled for, and unhelpful.

The OP deserves better than these type of responses.

[Wiseman2]

Sadly you're shutting down trust. When a partner feels they should have used their Miranda rights to keep silent, because everything they say is being used against them, things are in dire straits. Hopefully marriage therapy helps you two out.

[Batya33]

6 hours ago, Wonderstruck said:

This comment was unnecessarily vicious, uncalled for, and unhelpful.

The OP deserves better than these type of responses.

I find it helpful -it's advising the OP to also seek help whether therapy, physician, etc.  In 2009 I had just had a baby and woke up from a nap and felt tired and dizzy and weak.  And numb.  But also I was saying nonsense words.  For about five minutes - just the wrong words -not offensive words.  This clued my non-doctor husband into a sign I could be having a stroke.  He quietly called his doctor friend and convinced me to go the ER and leave our newborn son.  My speech quickly returned to normal. 

I didn't want to go. He didn't want to alarm me about his concerns just wanted me checked out ASAP. Just imagine if I'd argued about how vicious he was to try to make me leave my baby just because I was disoriented after a nap.  And numb from antibiotics I was on (according to me).  Imagine if I'd had too much pride to admit there was something wrong and refused to leave our baby.  That night was step one in getting my stroke diagnosis and proper treatment.

Imagine if the OP ignores that his reaction might be an overreaction and it might be because he is "right" about his suspicions but it also might be anything ranging from garden variety sleep deprivation to anemia or to one of the other issues mentioned -why not get checked out -he's a father after all - this way he can be there for his kids as well.

Why is it vicious to suggest that someone might be suffering from a medical or mental health disorder or illness if the behavior seems erratic, etc.???

[reinventmyself]

If you are committed to stay in the marriage, no matter what, how is the information learned from the call records going to help?

Noone is questioning that there was in incident that you are now aware of.  No one is questioning whether or not your trust has been challenged and your foundation shaken.  But if the goal is to build back from here, what effect do you think the call records, if indeed there is some activity there, going to have on your marriage?  It may be one of those "be careful what you wish for" moments.   

If this all happened 6 months ago, that would be an entirely different story.  But given the timeline and how you just accounted for how much you two have grown and now are entirely different people, I personally don't get the point.  But, it's not my life and it's easy for me to say, not being in your position.  

Let's say there is a lot of activity.  Are you still committed to stay?  

I don't know, but if I had the resolution to do so, and my goal was to move fwd in good faith, I'd take all this to marriage counseling and forgo opening the envelope.