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Sister Problem - She accused me of being a liar


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eNotAloners ~

Recently, I told my younger sister about our late domestically violent, chain smoking, alcoholic father.  He beat my mother for 18 years of their marriage until his premature death which was a relief for my mother.  

My late father punched my mother's teeth out several times.  She couldn't afford to replace her missing teeth for decades. 

My sister and I are 10 years apart so she doesn't remember anything nor has my mother told her about stigma filled family history.  My younger brother remembers the beatings because he is closer to my age.  My mother and brother are my allies as are my husband, sons and in-laws.  My in-laws know tidbits but not all the gory details.  Nonetheless, they're my compassionate allies.

My sister texted some very incriminating texts to me such as telling me I'm a liar about our late father, that I'll burn in hell for lying about the dead and that only a therapist or psychiatrist can determine whether or not I'm truthful.  I've saved all of her texts, backed them up, it's in my gallery, my husband's gallery, in my computer and saved forever.  It's very incriminating.  She implicated herself.

My sister arranged a family gathering at a restaurant several nights ago.  Then abruptly changed the restaurant venue at the last minute.  Next, she abruptly canceled attending the restaurant after the rest of us were at the restaurant waiting for her to arrive.  In her texts, she continued digging a deeper hole for herself and she realized that she pounded the final nail in her own coffin. 

She also didn't want to risk a confrontation with my husband or me because we were planning to tell her not to call me a liar at the restaurant and she got scared of us so she didn't show up. 

She's not the one to apologize in a million years.  She cowardly texts cruel gaslighting texts which she cannot take back.

My in-laws reside locally to my sister, brother, mother and me.  During random times of the year, we co-mingle at restaurants and holidays. 

This is a dilemma.  I was so furious that I didn't attend the restaurant several evenings ago this week.  My husband went without me and met my MIL (mother-in-law), SIL (sister-in-law) and mother.  It was just the 4 of them having dinner together.

In the future, should I continue to decline attending these co-mingling events such as restaurants and holidays?  I don't want to place myself in an uncomfortable, awkward environment.  I don't want to force my husband and sons to stay home with me when they want to be with their relatives.  My husband wants to be with his mother and sister.  My sons want to be with their grandparents and cousins.  Even though they're my allies, they want to be with their relatives.  I'm happier remaining at home.  If I go in the future, should my husband and I confront my sister and tell her not to call me a liar?  My BIL (brother-in-law - my sister's husband) is obnoxiously rude and says inappropriate comments.  There are complaints about his mouth problem, too.  (You lie down with dogs, you wake up with fleas.)

Being called a liar is the same as me calling you a thief.  It's very damaging to my reputation, she assassinated my character, insulted my integrity and honor.  It's very dangerous to be called a liar and an extreme, very serious offense. 

My mother told my brother and me about her marriage made in hell but didn't tell my sister about all the horrors.  I've asked my mother to reveal to my sister about what my father did to her.  My mother now has dementia and gets very confused and forgetful so it's too late for her to explain anything accurately.  My brother has a good relationship with me but he doesn't want to get involved.  He prefers to remain neutral. 

What would you do?  Thank you eNotAlone friends! 🥰

 

 

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I'm not clear about the problem. You say that the texts came from your sister, but I don't understand how this would have you avoiding your inlaws?

I'd attend family gatherings and behave like my own happy and kind self with all who attend.

If sister avoids a gathering, then no need to deal with her.

If sister attends a gathering, I'd simply avoid the topic of her texts. If she raises it with me, I'd tell her I'm open to hearing her privately, and it's not necessary to inflict this topic on extended family.

Beyond gatherings, if sister confronts me about any of this, I'd agree that she's welcome to believe what she wants to believe, and if she ever wants to speak with brother about any of this, that can be between the two of them, and I'll stay out of it.

I don't consider it my job to force information on anyone who doesn't want to hear it. So I'd back off of sister, and I'd tell her she doesn't need to fear anymore discussion about the matter from me.

Nobody needs to avoid anybody--just peace out and live your life.

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1 minute ago, catfeeder said:

I'm not clear about the problem. You say that the texts came from your sister, but I don't understand how this would have you avoiding your inlaws?

I'd attend family gatherings and behave like my own happy and kind self with all who attend.

If sister avoids a gathering, then no need to deal with her.

If sister attends a gathering, I'd simply avoid the topic of her texts. If she raises it with me, I'd tell her I'm open to hearing her privately, and it's not necessary to inflict this topic on extended family.

Beyond gatherings, if sister confronts me about any of this, I'd agree that she's welcome to believe what she wants to believe, and if she ever wants to speak with brother about any of this, that can be between the two of them, and I'll stay out of it.

I don't consider it my job to force information on anyone who doesn't want to hear it. So I'd back off of sister, and I'd tell her she doesn't need to fear anymore discussion about the matter from me.

Nobody needs to avoid anybody--just peace out and live your life.

Thank you, catfeeder.

Texts came from my sister.  Since my in-laws, sister, her husband, children, my brother, mother and us (husband and sons) meet at restaurants or someone's house for dinner periodically given that we all reside locally, I'd have to avoid attending these gatherings because it would make me feel uncomfortable and awkward while sister will pretend that she never called me a liar nor suggested that only a therapist could determine whether or not I was telling the truth.

Even though you can attend family gatherings as your own happy self, I'd have difficulty feeling happy while I'm really tense and nervous due to cruel texts about labeling me as a liar. 

If sister avoids the gathering, I'm fine with it such as her non-attendance at the restaurant several nights ago. 

Sister would never broach the topic of her texts.  She's not the type to apologize.  My husband and I feel like telling her never to call me a liar.  My husband was prepared to tell her, "Don't call my wife a liar!"  However, sister didn't attend the restaurant yesterday despite her arranging the restaurant gathering.  Sister fears my or my husband's wrath.

Sister doesn't want to believe the truth.  She only remembers sitting on her father's lap as a young child.  Not knowing the truth about how he really was is living a lie and disrespecting my mother's suffering.  This is why I divulged all the horrific details to her recently. 

I would back off from telling sister more about her late domestically violent, chain smoking, alcoholic father.  The issue is being with her socially after being called a liar is intolerable, unacceptable and unforgivable.  I don't want to be with anyone if I don't feel love from them.  I have immense distrust.  I prefer to stay home instead.  I don't like awkward, uncomfortable, tense, seething, furious situations. 

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I am going to psychoanalyze a bit. Your sister was very little when your dad died. To her, he was probably still "dear dad"(especially because he died young and she was a kid so even if she saw flaws that young, she supressed them) and in time it remained that, as to her there is no evidence to prove otherwise. So her memories of him are very fond. You telling her how he was a violent alcoholic is not something she could accept well.

And instead of focusing of having "heart to heart" and talking that thorough, you are focusing on what? How she damaged your reputation and how you are saving her texts on 3 devices in case of what? What is she going to do to you? Cancel you on Twitter? Go to your Boss and get you to lose your job? She called you a liar because she cant accept that "dear old dad" was not so dear. Instead of seeing that and working on that you have a bruised ego because she called you a liar. There is simply no need for that.

Get your brother and sister(I wouldnt involve mother because dementia issue), and have an honest conversation about it. And try to explain some stuff to her. If she cant do that or again resorts to foul speech, then consider removing her from your life or avoiding her. She is a family after all. You need to try to work on your issues.

Edited by Kwothe28
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4 hours ago, Cherylyn said:

My brother has a good relationship with me but he doesn't want to get involved.  He prefers to remain neutral. 

Sorry this is happening. Do the same. Remain neutral. Perhaps your sister is in denial, perhaps she doesn't recall all the details.

Everyone's reality, perspective and recollection is different. There's no point trying to combat this.

Keep in mind that abusive households have a very divisive effect on everyone. So this feud is perpetuating your father's abuse from the grave.

Let your bother and sister be. Let them think and recall whatever they want. Don't carry on your father's horrible legacy. 

You'll never make anyone see what you see and have seen.

 

 

Edited by Wiseman2
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7 hours ago, Cherylyn said:

it would make me feel uncomfortable and awkward while sister will pretend that she never called me a liar

Cherylyn. Your sister has never called you worse than this during your lifetime, really?

You want to alter your whole life and relationships with your entire family because sis called you a name?

You're not 12, honey.

Be the bigger person, go enjoy your family, who you say are supportive of you, and allow sis to process whatever she can deal with on her own. That's up to her.

If you believe that she'll pretend that she never texted you, then GOOD. That paves the way for you to drop it behind you and move FORward--in your own best interests.

This doesn't invalidate your feelings, it means that you are wise enough to see that your sister was dealt a shock that she cannot handle. She regressed into an adolescent that acted out, and you are mature and able to recognize this. Pull back and allow her to grieve her illusions.

If she never reaches a stage that enables her to accept the truth, then step away from the role of Thought Police--that's not your job--and let her believe whatever will allow her to move forward while you do the same. Seek your own comfort in supportive family, friends, clergy, a counsellor--whatever you need to do for your own head.

Head high. You're a smart lady, and you can do this.

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9 hours ago, Cherylyn said:

eNotAloners ~

Recently, I told my younger sister about our late domestically violent, chain smoking, alcoholic father.  He beat my mother for 18 years of their marriage until his premature death which was a relief for my mother.  

My late father punched my mother's teeth out several times.  She couldn't afford to replace her missing teeth for decades. 

My sister and I are 10 years apart so she doesn't remember anything nor has my mother told her about stigma filled family history.  My younger brother remembers the beatings because he is closer to my age.  My mother and brother are my allies as are my husband, sons and in-laws.  My in-laws know tidbits but not all the gory details.  Nonetheless, they're my compassionate allies.

My sister texted some very incriminating texts to me such as telling me I'm a liar about our late father, that I'll burn in hell for lying about the dead and that only a therapist or psychiatrist can determine whether or not I'm truthful.  I've saved all of her texts, backed them up, it's in my gallery, my husband's gallery, in my computer and saved forever.  It's very incriminating.  She implicated herself.

My sister arranged a family gathering at a restaurant several nights ago.  Then abruptly changed the restaurant venue at the last minute.  Next, she abruptly canceled attending the restaurant after the rest of us were at the restaurant waiting for her to arrive.  In her texts, she continued digging a deeper hole for herself and she realized that she pounded the final nail in her own coffin. 

She also didn't want to risk a confrontation with my husband or me because we were planning to tell her not to call me a liar at the restaurant and she got scared of us so she didn't show up. 

She's not the one to apologize in a million years.  She cowardly texts cruel gaslighting texts which she cannot take back.

My in-laws reside locally to my sister, brother, mother and me.  During random times of the year, we co-mingle at restaurants and holidays. 

This is a dilemma.  I was so furious that I didn't attend the restaurant several evenings ago this week.  My husband went without me and met my MIL (mother-in-law), SIL (sister-in-law) and mother.  It was just the 4 of them having dinner together.

In the future, should I continue to decline attending these co-mingling events such as restaurants and holidays?  I don't want to place myself in an uncomfortable, awkward environment.  I don't want to force my husband and sons to stay home with me when they want to be with their relatives.  My husband wants to be with his mother and sister.  My sons want to be with their grandparents and cousins.  Even though they're my allies, they want to be with their relatives.  I'm happier remaining at home.  If I go in the future, should my husband and I confront my sister and tell her not to call me a liar?  My BIL (brother-in-law - my sister's husband) is obnoxiously rude and says inappropriate comments.  There are complaints about his mouth problem, too.  (You lie down with dogs, you wake up with fleas.)

Being called a liar is the same as me calling you a thief.  It's very damaging to my reputation, she assassinated my character, insulted my integrity and honor.  It's very dangerous to be called a liar and an extreme, very serious offense. 

My mother told my brother and me about her marriage made in hell but didn't tell my sister about all the horrors.  I've asked my mother to reveal to my sister about what my father did to her.  My mother now has dementia and gets very confused and forgetful so it's too late for her to explain anything accurately.  My brother has a good relationship with me but he doesn't want to get involved.  He prefers to remain neutral. 

What would you do?  Thank you eNotAlone friends! 🥰

 

 

With kindness, I think you need therapy. Intensive therapy to help work through the trauma and damage seeing domestic violence and abuse growing up. Your sister and you are a terrible mix because she doesn't understand what you saw or went through in your childhood and you are too hurt with unresolved issues and pain from the past to let this go. It's a furious (yes, that's the word), frustrating, paralyzing feeling feeling like you are reliving that past abuse over and over because someone questions you or pushes back.

You want to think it's gaslighting because you've seen it before also but yet it's not quite it so you're confused and furious further and just want to avoid her.

Your sister doesn't know and it also looks like she doesn't care. Her not caring is not an insult to you. It feels like an insult but it doesn't have to be. Her ignorance does not influence what happened. Everything you saw and experienced did happen. You do not need to prove it to anyone or defend yourself when someone says it didn't. It did. 

I suggest personal therapy/counselling, talking about this freely in a safe space. Your family likely doesn't want to hear about it anymore but they may politely listen. You consider them allies but it's not fair to put this on anyone else especially your children, the next generation. They are not blind and they know how abusive your father(their grandfather) was so trust in their better judgment also in whom they talk to or associate with in the family or outside of it for that matter. 

Should you ever go to another outing again with them? That is up to you but I wouldn't let a rude and ignorant relative prevent me from having relationships and meeting with others in the family. I wouldn't talk to her about the past either, about your father or what he was. I wouldn't drag husband or anyone else into that hostile relationship with such a hostile person either. He can't fight all your battles for you. 

I'm sorry for all the things that you saw and experienced growing up. I'd just like to say I hear you loud and clear and I am truly sorry for everything you've seen/felt and the terror that you must have gone through.

 

 

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I still don't understand why your sister has to be invited to be with your in laws. 

Just because she lives nearby?

Do you invite her? Do your in laws invite her?

If they are your allies, why would they invite her?

In your shoes, I would sever ties with my sister, except for my mom's care. Tell her flat out, I only want to hear from you if it is regarding mom.

It's very painful to fight with siblings. I know. but if she's just going to spew anger all over you, you have to set strong boundaries. Talk to your therapist how.  There are times in life where you just have to walk alone and allow others to decide for themselves what they want to do. (meaning hubs, kids, in laws, siblings etc do what they think is right for them) 

My parent doesn't talk to one of their siblings. As a result my siblings & I have no contact with that family. Is it a little messed up? yes. It is. but I'm a grown up. I am not a people pleaser...  I choose to stand by my parent. They are my priority. I can talk to and see who I chose.

Figure out your priorities and the rest will fall in line. You can't control the world.  You have to choose what matters to you and live your life true to you.  No one else. 

when you live for you and allow others to live for them it gets easier. Now if your hubs has a problem, you gotta work together.  He is your life partner. you work together for you and your kids. What you two agree is best is best. that's it. 

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Hurt people hurt people.

Her childhood as she knew it becomes a lie in a moment.  That's a lot to unpack.  Someone pointed out perfectly that she's regressed to a child and acting out.

Rather than merely focusing on the insult of being called a liar consider having some compassion for her.  If her acting out is a measure of her pain, then she must be in a very dark place. Her denial appears desperate.  Think about that for a moment.

Certainly not to this degree but I found out some things about my father that rocked my view of my childhood.  It took a long time to unwind, grieve the loss of my illusion and regroup.  My childhood in so many ways seemed like a lie at the time.  Again, it wasn't near the picture you painted.  I can only multiply that times 100 and I can walk in your sister's shoes.  Not to say I agree with the way in which she is handling it.  But I can understand her pain and confusion.

She's the common denominator here with the list of family members you describe.  If you look around you, you are not alone and have plenty of family support.  Your experience is not debatable, be confident in that and conduct your life accordingly.

So, step back and give her plenty of room to process this.  Remind yourself that she is grieving.  Even though it's difficult try not to take it personally and let this run its course.

 

Edited by reinventmyself
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2 hours ago, reinventmyself said:

Hurt people hurt people.

Her childhood as she knew it becomes a lie in a moment.  That's a lot to unpack.  Someone pointed out perfectly that she's regressed to a child and acting out.

Rather than merely focusing on the insult of being called a liar consider having some compassion for her.  If her acting out is a measure of her pain, then she must be in a very dark place. Her denial appears desperate.  Think about that for a moment.

Certainly not to this degree but I found out some things about my father that rocked my view of my childhood.  It took a long time to unwind, grieve the loss of my illusion and regroup.  My childhood in so many ways seemed like a lie at the time.  Again, it wasn't near the picture you painted.  I can only multiply that times 100 and I can walk in your sister's shoes.  Not to say I agree with the way in which she is handling it.  But I can understand her pain and confusion.

She's the common denominator here with the list of family members you describe.  If you look around you, you are not alone and have plenty of family support.  Your experience is not debatable, be confident in that and conduct your life accordingly.

So, step back and give her plenty of room to process this.  Remind yourself that she is grieving.  Even though it's difficult try not to take it personally and let this run its course.

 

Beautifully said, and I wish that I had sounded as kind with you, Cherylyn.

No other members of your family, or your friends, or even us, are trying to invalidate your feelings--either about your history or about your sister's reaction.

We are simply suggesting that, instead of harming yourself with your own reactivity, you channel your reaction into a less charged response that can see beyond your immediate injury to the source of everyone's injury. 

Sister reacted poorly. And it's understandable that this has hurt you. So we suggest that you do not hurt your SELF further by turning sister's reaction into some larger imagined harm that she does not own the power to cause you.

My heart goes out to you, and I hope you'll feel better soon.

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I'm so sorry. Damn, you do not deserve to be the punching bag for her intro into the reality of abuse in your family. It's a kill the messenger situation, you know. Your mom should have stepped up long ago. Your brother. But nope, it all falls to you, because you are the only one with the balls to really say it. I know, I know, they wrestle with their demons too. But damn. This is all because they just kept trying to stay quiet, and your brother still is! It could be as simple as him telling her, hey, this happened. Be angry all you want. Cherylyn is not the enemy here though, we  just suffered abuse. 

It makes me feel so badly for you! It's so important to be seen and the Truth to be seen and said, especially where someone has known abuse. Truth and honesty and openness is the light that helps clean the wounds, darkness breeds the pain and infections grow. 

I think you should go. Go to the family events. Don't tip toe either. Go in and own the place. Cause honestly?? You haven't done anything wrong. She needed to know. Now, she's going to do with it what she wants, and she might just crawl into a cave and pretend this never happened. Not the abuse, not her lashing out. You can respect that while also not letting her bullshyte change your life. You just go and know, know everyone there is watching you and your cues. You set the tone. They just are cruising, friend. Sucks, and also, means you again are called to lead this ship whether you ever asked for this or not. Sometimes it falls on the strongest, and you are that. And people often take that for granted, forget the strong can be vulnerable and hurt too, and need that extra support. 

I know you value family, harmony, your character very much. She went against that and it hurts, she went right for the heart. But she doesn't mean it, she's embarrassed... Give her an out. You can do it. 

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She is just plain Toxic!  Yeah, you avoid those.... sounds like she, herself has some issue's deep down maybe?

Either way, I say do as you please.  Get out there with your family ( hubby and the kids).  As for her, just ignore all her bs.  Do not bother reacting or going at her anymore... As I said, it's Toxic! No good for you - as she seems quite unreasonable and you can't win with ppl like this.

For your own sanity, the less you deal with these people the better!

You do know the truth and if this is how she reacts to it, so be it.  Some people can't handle the truth.  Not your problem... and like I said, don't bother trying to 'prove' anything.  Ignore and don't react to her at all.

 

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23 hours ago, catfeeder said:

I'm not clear about the problem. You say that the texts came from your sister, but I don't understand how this would have you avoiding your inlaws?

I'd attend family gatherings and behave like my own happy and kind self with all who attend.

If sister avoids a gathering, then no need to deal with her.

If sister attends a gathering, I'd simply avoid the topic of her texts. If she raises it with me, I'd tell her I'm open to hearing her privately, and it's not necessary to inflict this topic on extended family.

Beyond gatherings, if sister confronts me about any of this, I'd agree that she's welcome to believe what she wants to believe, and if she ever wants to speak with brother about any of this, that can be between the two of them, and I'll stay out of it.

I don't consider it my job to force information on anyone who doesn't want to hear it. So I'd back off of sister, and I'd tell her she doesn't need to fear anymore discussion about the matter from me.

Nobody needs to avoid anybody--just peace out and live your life.

Thank you, catfeeder.  To answer your question, my SIL (sister-in-law) and my sister are close.  They're not best friends but they're close.  My MIL (mother-in-law) likes my sister and her children.  This is why my in-laws are included at family gatherings with my mother, brother, sister and her family. 

I admire you for behaving like your own happy self at family gatherings.  It's difficult for me to be my own happy self when there is an undercurrent of acrimony.

Thank you, if sister attends a gathering, my husband said he will tell her not to call his wife a liar.  I'll defer to him in this case.  It is less likely that sister will sass back to my husband.  In this regard, he's a lot tougher than I am. 

My brother won't speak about past atrocities to sister.  I spoke with him at length on the phone today.  He's very supportive and compassionate.  He's my favorite sibling and a very moral man.

My husband will see to it that we no longer celebrate Thanksgiving (in November) at my sister's house with my in-laws every year.  We will celebrate Thanksgiving separately with my in-laws at my MIL's house and with my husband's relatives such as his aunts, uncles and cousins.  There will be changes and enforced healthy boundaries. 

My sister's birthday is next month.  In the past I've always acknowledged her birthday, sent her happy birthday greetings, gave her gifts and we celebrate her birthday at restaurants or in our houses.  From now on,  I'll completely ignore her and decline participating in gatherings.  What goes around comes around.

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22 hours ago, MissCanuck said:

Implicated herself in what?

She called you a liar, which I understand was very hurtful to you and upsetting. However, I am not seeing where she incriminated you. That suggests she accused you of a crime, which she did not. 

Your in-laws and most other family members seem to be supportive of you, so I can't imagine they'd pay much attention to her rants, should she ever come out with them in their presence. It makes sense to avoid a gathering if you know she is going to be there and you would prefer not to be around her, to be clear. But I don't think your reputation is at risk. Why would it be? Most others know the truth, so they are likely going to just assume your sister is the one with the issue. Not you. 

Thank you, MissCanuck.

She implicated and incriminated herself by texting that I was a liar and everything is on record.  It's not a he said / she said scenario.  It's in text with permanent record.  There are records of her texts everywhere.  I've saved her thread, photographed it, printed her thread on paper,  saved it in my computer, it's backed up, forwarded, copied, pasted, my husband as her text thread and she texted scathing comments to my husband in the past as well.  My husband saved her scathing texts to him from the past.  My husband said he can easily show these scathing texts about him to his sister (SIL - my sister-in-law) and mother (my MIL - mother-in-law.)  SIL and MIL like my sister and her children.  It's one thing to be called a liar by my sister to me.  If my husband were to show his sister and mother scathing texts written from my sister to my husband, it will hit home with them.  That will be a real game changer and deal breaker for SIL and MIL.  They will alienate my sister.  SIL and MIL will look upon my sister with great disdain because my sister was cruel to my husband.  SIL and MIL will not like my sister anymore because my sister wrote something mean about SIL's brother and MIL's son.  It will strike a nerve.

Sister didn't incriminate me.  Sister incriminated herself by leaving a trail of evidence in her wake.  Evidence and proof are very damaging to her.  Sister calling me a liar sorely backfired.  She dug a deeper hole for herself.  It wasn't the result she was expecting.  This is the problem with texts.  Everything is saved as evidence.  

You are correct.  My sister's reputation is ruined for calling me a liar while I have an arsenal of allies.  This is why she didn't attend the restaurant dinner several nights ago.  She felt too embarrassed and ashamed.  She also didn't want to risk a confrontation with my husband because she knew my husband was furious with her.  She knows my husband doesn't take any guff.  She fears my husband.  This is why she cowardly canceled her attendance at the last minute. 

 

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22 hours ago, Kwothe28 said:

I am going to psychoanalyze a bit. Your sister was very little when your dad died. To her, he was probably still "dear dad"(especially because he died young and she was a kid so even if she saw flaws that young, she supressed them) and in time it remained that, as to her there is no evidence to prove otherwise. So her memories of him are very fond. You telling her how he was a violent alcoholic is not something she could accept well.

And instead of focusing of having "heart to heart" and talking that thorough, you are focusing on what? How she damaged your reputation and how you are saving her texts on 3 devices in case of what? What is she going to do to you? Cancel you on Twitter? Go to your Boss and get you to lose your job? She called you a liar because she cant accept that "dear old dad" was not so dear. Instead of seeing that and working on that you have a bruised ego because she called you a liar. There is simply no need for that.

Get your brother and sister(I wouldnt involve mother because dementia issue), and have an honest conversation about it. And try to explain some stuff to her. If she cant do that or again resorts to foul speech, then consider removing her from your life or avoiding her. She is a family after all. You need to try to work on your issues.

Thank you, Kwothe28.

My sister is in denial.  She only remembers sitting on my father's lap as a small child.  To her, he was flawless, a tender loving father, loving husband and family man.  She refuses to accept the fact that her father was a violent, chain smoking alcoholic.

The problem with my sister is that she doesn't have any finesse.  Instead of telling me she didn't want to hear about how her father really was, she told me that I was a liar, I was going to burn in hell for lying about her father and only a therapist can tell me whether or not I was telling the truth.  Sister is very harsh and aggressive.  Her communication style is always combative and mean.  She lacks grace.  She's very curt, abrasive and rough. 

Sister doesn't want an honest conversation.  Even though my brother and I are close, he prefers to stay out of it.  I agree, removing her from my life is the safest route.  I prefer to create a protective bubble for myself.  I will not acknowledge her birthday next month.  In the past, I sent her postal birthday cards, bought her gifts and was a loving sister.  She will be ignored.  What goes around, comes around.

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1 minute ago, Cherylyn said:

She implicated and incriminated herself by texting that I was a liar

Implicate and incriminate mean that someone is showing their involvement in a crime. No crime was committed here. Calling you a liar is hurtful, but it is not criminal.  

4 minutes ago, Cherylyn said:

Sister incriminated herself by leaving a trail of evidence in her wake.  Evidence and proof are very damaging to her. 

This is what I don't understand - who are you planning to present this evidence to? What do you need evidence for, exactly? Are you planning on showing all of this to your in-laws so they stop assoicating with her? 

With respect, I think you may want to take a few deep breaths. Keep a record of what she said, by all means. And keep your distance from her. But sit with yourself for a few minutes here and ask yourself if launching a campaign against her is really what is going to bring you inner peace. 

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22 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Sorry this is happening. Do the same. Remain neutral. Perhaps your sister is in denial, perhaps she doesn't recall all the details.

Everyone's reality, perspective and recollection is different. There's no point trying to combat this.

Keep in mind that abusive households have a very divisive effect on everyone. So this feud is perpetuating your father's abuse from the grave.

Let your bother and sister be. Let them think and recall whatever they want. Don't carry on your father's horrible legacy. 

You'll never make anyone see what you see and have seen.

 

 

Thank you, Wiseman2.

My reality, perspective and recollection is the exact same as my brother's and mother's bad memories.  All of our stories match!

My brother and mother agree with me because our memories are very vivid.  It's only my sister who refuses to accept the truth because her only memory is sitting on her father's lap as a young child.  He sung lullabies to her and she doesn't want to accept the fact that in reality, her late father was a violent, chain smoking alcoholic. 

Her calling me a liar and telling me that a therapist IS THE ONLY ONE who can tell me whether or not I'm telling the truth is intolerable and unacceptable.  She left a trail of texts which is very incriminating.  In the past, she wrote mean texts about my husband to my husband.  He can show those scathing texts to his sister and mother anytime in the near future.  Sister fears a confrontation with my angry husband.  She's fearful of her texts being shared with my MIL (mother-in-law) and SIL (sister-in-law).  My MIL and SIL like my sister and her children but they will alienate my sister after they read  her scathing texts to my husband.  This is why she canceled attending the family restaurant gathering several nights ago.  She's a coward.  She didn't want to face my husband's wrath.

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10 minutes ago, MissCanuck said:

Implicate and incriminate mean that someone is showing their involvement in a crime. No crime was committed here. Calling you a liar is hurtful, but it is not criminal.  

This is what I don't understand - who are you planning to present this evidence to? What do you need evidence for, exactly? Are you planning on showing all of this to your in-laws so they stop assoicating with her? 

With respect, I think you may want to take a few deep breaths. Keep a record of what she said, by all means. And keep your distance from her. But sit with yourself for a few minutes here and ask yourself if launching a campaign against her is really what is going to bring you inner peace. 

Actually, yes.  My in-laws like my sister and her children.  This is why my in-laws are included at family gatherings whenever I'm with my side of the family such as random restaurant gatherings, graduation parties or holiday celebrations at one of our houses.  We all reside locally.

My sister wrote scathing texts to my husband about my husband.  In the near future, he plans to show his sister and mother (my SIL - sister-in-law and my MIL - mother-in-law) texts from my sister to my husband which will cause my SIL and MIL to alienate my sister.  It's a real game changer and deal breaker if my SIL and MIL read what my sister wrote about their brother and son.  My husband and I actually want his sister and mother to stop associating with my sister, her husband and children.  My sister is the one who (in a family sense) incriminated herself to not only me but my in-laws especially after they read her texts to my husband.   

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19 hours ago, Seraphim said:

I understand your fear . The thing is she can’t “ ruin your reputation “ with people who are allies and believe you . The rest of the people in the world? Who cares. So she can’t ruin you to people who know the truth. Your husband has your back so he will shut her down fast. 
 

Two, due to the age difference she doesn’t have your memories. There is almost a four year difference between me and my brother. He doesn’t have all the memories of our father that I have and he also has different ones. Just like the difference between my mom and her brother. My mom is 19 months older than her brother. And he insists that she was never hit by their mom and she said she was hit every day. See? Different person different experience. Different memories. 
 

Three, we all want to believe that our parents were good people. Our parents are part of us and we are part of them. So if we believe they were awful ,horrible ,disgusting and abusive people then what are we?? See the conundrum? We have to learn to separate ourselves from our parents and their actions and who they are. If she never knew all of these things until recently she is decades and decades behind the striving you have done. It will take her the rest of her life to sort this out. 
 

I wouldn’t fear her, I would pity her because she won’t accept the truth . You don’t have to be abused but you don’t have to run either. You have done your psychological work and can say what your dad was and you have separated yourself from this person and his actions. Don’t punish yourself and your family by not going. This is just carrying on the dysfunction. Instead hold your head high and let her sort out HER issues, don’t make them yours. As the eldest we often do that. 
 

Much love . ❤️🕊

Thank you, Seraphim. 💕

Thank you, I agree, it's my sister's reputation which was ruined due to her trail of evidence in texts.  I have about a dozen allies.  She only has her husband who has mouth problems.  Yes, thank God for my husband.  He has my back and will shut her down fast.  She fears my husband.  This is why she canceled her attendance at the restaurant at the last minute several nights ago. 

Yes, you have a similar situation.  The only recollection my sister has of her late father is sitting on his lap and him singing songs to her.  To her, he's 'dear old dad' and nothing more.  She doesn't want her memory of her dad tarnished courtesy of me.

My sister is in denial.  She's also very harsh and aggressive.  Not that this is an excuse but her marriage isn't ideal.  He husband is very disrespectfully rude to everyone including her and she won't leave him because he makes a lot of money.  She's very charming, extroverted and pretentious socially while her marriage is in shambles.  Those are her issues which she doesn't want the world to see.

My sister wrote a scathing text to my husband a while ago which he kept, saved and backed up.  He can always show these saved scathing texts to his sister and mother.  SIL and MIL are very fond of my sister and her children but they will alienate her after my husband shows them what my sister wrote to him.

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17 hours ago, catfeeder said:

Cherylyn. Your sister has never called you worse than this during your lifetime, really?

You want to alter your whole life and relationships with your entire family because sis called you a name?

You're not 12, honey.

Be the bigger person, go enjoy your family, who you say are supportive of you, and allow sis to process whatever she can deal with on her own. That's up to her.

If you believe that she'll pretend that she never texted you, then GOOD. That paves the way for you to drop it behind you and move FORward--in your own best interests.

This doesn't invalidate your feelings, it means that you are wise enough to see that your sister was dealt a shock that she cannot handle. She regressed into an adolescent that acted out, and you are mature and able to recognize this. Pull back and allow her to grieve her illusions.

If she never reaches a stage that enables her to accept the truth, then step away from the role of Thought Police--that's not your job--and let her believe whatever will allow her to move forward while you do the same. Seek your own comfort in supportive family, friends, clergy, a counsellor--whatever you need to do for your own head.

Head high. You're a smart lady, and you can do this.

Yes, really.  Being called a liar was the worst.  Telling me that ONLY a therapist can tell me if I was telling the truth or not is the worst as well.  My only saving grace is that it's all recorded permanently via text.  She actually did me a favor by leaving an electronic trail.

If calling me a liar alters the family dynamic between my in-laws and her, then so be it.  My in-laws are fond of my sister and children.  They will alienate my sister if my husband shows them her scathing texts to him from the past (unrelated to my sister calling me a liar recently).  There is a price to pay for bad behaviors.  It will come at a very steep cost.   This will be her harsh consequence. 

 

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25 minutes ago, Cherylyn said:

My husband and I actually want his sister and mother to stop associating with my sister, her husband and children. 

Ok, so this is the reason why you're arming yourself with all this. 

I was wondering why you were approaching this like you were about to present evidence to the jury. But I also wonder if turning everyone against her is really going to help you - or make the problem worse in the long run and create further divisions. 

Is the problem for you that she called you a liar, or that her memories of your dad are not the same as yours? In kindness, you can't change her memory. Her memories are hers, and not yours to re-program. Yes, that is frustrating. But it doesn't invalidate your experience of his abuse. I also don't think it will bring you peace to try to invalidate her experience of him. 

I get why her recent behaviour is hurtful. But it is also clear you are very resentful of her in general, and seem angry that people like her: 

14 minutes ago, Cherylyn said:

She's very charming, extroverted and pretentious socially while her marriage is in shambles.  Those are her issues which she doesn't want the world to see.

Why would that be the world's business to see? Who would want the world to know about their marital problems? 

I point this out because this recent episode seems to be triggering a landslide of other, deeper hostilities that are actually not related to her calling you a liar. The state of her marriage is not relevant to that. It might be best if you focus on the issue at hand, rather than letting other periphery matters eat away at you. 

 

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17 hours ago, Rose Mosse said:

With kindness, I think you need therapy. Intensive therapy to help work through the trauma and damage seeing domestic violence and abuse growing up. Your sister and you are a terrible mix because she doesn't understand what you saw or went through in your childhood and you are too hurt with unresolved issues and pain from the past to let this go. It's a furious (yes, that's the word), frustrating, paralyzing feeling feeling like you are reliving that past abuse over and over because someone questions you or pushes back.

You want to think it's gaslighting because you've seen it before also but yet it's not quite it so you're confused and furious further and just want to avoid her.

Your sister doesn't know and it also looks like she doesn't care. Her not caring is not an insult to you. It feels like an insult but it doesn't have to be. Her ignorance does not influence what happened. Everything you saw and experienced did happen. You do not need to prove it to anyone or defend yourself when someone says it didn't. It did. 

I suggest personal therapy/counselling, talking about this freely in a safe space. Your family likely doesn't want to hear about it anymore but they may politely listen. You consider them allies but it's not fair to put this on anyone else especially your children, the next generation. They are not blind and they know how abusive your father(their grandfather) was so trust in their better judgment also in whom they talk to or associate with in the family or outside of it for that matter. 

Should you ever go to another outing again with them? That is up to you but I wouldn't let a rude and ignorant relative prevent me from having relationships and meeting with others in the family. I wouldn't talk to her about the past either, about your father or what he was. I wouldn't drag husband or anyone else into that hostile relationship with such a hostile person either. He can't fight all your battles for you. 

I'm sorry for all the things that you saw and experienced growing up. I'd just like to say I hear you loud and clear and I am truly sorry for everything you've seen/felt and the terror that you must have gone through.

 

 

Thank you, Rose Mosse.  I don't need therapy.  My stories are the same exact stories as my brother's and mother's.  My brother and mother's stories all match with mine. 

There is no lying on my part whatsoever.  

My sister only remembers sitting on her late father's lap as a small child and singing songs together.  I tarnished her image of her sweet late father by telling her the truth that he was a violent, chain smoking alcoholic.  She couldn't handle the truth.  Therefore, instead of telling me she couldn't handle the truth, it was easier for her to go into denial mode and hence, label me as a bald faced liar who will burn in hell for it.  Her words, not mine.

My sister said that ONLY a therapist can tell me whether or not I'm telling the truth.  That right there IS gaslighting.  Gaslighting is forcing you to change your perception of the facts.  Deflecting is another tactic of gaslighting.  She does all of it.  Gaslighting is manipulative psychological warfare.  My sister is the expert master at gaslighting.  I have an entire text thread of her gaslighting. 

Actually, yes, my husband has my back, will tell my sister not to call his wife a liar and will shut her down.  I'll defer to him because it's more effective to have her face my husband's wrath.  She fears my husband and this is why she canceled her attendance at the restaurant several nights ago.  She fears my allies.  She fears her texts will be shared with everyone.  She left a very damaging electronic trail. 

My in-laws (MIL and SIL) are fond of my sister and her children.  This is why both families are combined during social gatherings and we all reside locally.  My sister wrote a scathing text to my husband in the past.  He has since saved and backed up all of my sister's scathing texts to him.  One of these days, he will show his sister and mother all of these scathing texts to him from my sister.  My in-laws will alienate my sister after they discover what she wrote about their brother and son. 

None of us need to be lumped together.  My in-laws have a large house where we gather for holidays or special occasions.  My husband, sons and I can always go there.  Since my mother and brother are local, I can be with them anytime on my own time and terms.  We can all separate two family trees which will be enforced, healthy boundaries.

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