Two bad dates but then one very very good one....

[Rose Mosse]

9 minutes ago, jazz_lover said:

Ah she eventually got back to me said she was staying with a friend until her move but did I want to do something over the weekend asking if I was free Saturday night. I said I wasn't and asked if Sunday was any good and she said she could do early evening but would probably be tired. I said that was OK and we could do something relaxing. But guess it is a good sign she wants to do this weekend even after I told her I could wait until she was settled into her new place. 

Try not to read into this. There’s a lot going on. Ahh I hate moving. 

She’ll appreciate how patient you are and the interest you are showing too way down the line even if communication may lag at the moment.

 

[jazz_lover]

She sent me photos of her stuff boxed up today said the driver helped a bit but she still had to do a lot of it and she doesn’t feel well and didn’t know if she can make tmrw. I said moving is tiring and to get some rest and it’s ok if she doesn’t feel up to it tmrw. Three hours later she texted saying she was at her friends and felt better and she thinks she misses me and asked what I was up to. I told her I was heading out to see some jazz and to get some rest and we can talk tmrw. So I guess we will see 

[Wiseman2]

9 minutes ago, jazz_lover said:

she texted saying she was at her friends and felt better and she thinks she misses me and asked what I was up to.

That seems promising. Wait until she's settled and try again maybe next weekend.

[jazz_lover]

She texted this morning saying she was going to cafe and then to play tennis with her friend but could meet me afterwards and tennis will finish at 8. I said that was fine it’s a Sunday night so won’t be too bummed if she can’t make it in the end and if she’s been missing me would be good to see her to stoke the fire 

[Wiseman2]

6 minutes ago, jazz_lover said:

She texted this morning saying she was going to cafe and then to play tennis with her friend but could meet me afterwards and tennis will finish at 8. 

You seem like an after thought to her, but ok if this date materializes, see how it goes. So far these texts seem very friendzone-like.

[jazz_lover]

She’s staying with her friend before her move so obviously has to hang out with her most of the weekend so I see it as a positive that she is still doing her best to make time for me. Especially late on Sunday when she has work the next day and I’ve already said we can leave it until she’s settled into her new place but she seems to want to see me this weekend. But I know it’s only been one proper date so far so touch and go so will keep expectations modest and like I said being Sunday evening I’m not too fussed if it falls through 

[Rose Mosse]

26 minutes ago, jazz_lover said:

She’s staying with her friend before her move so obviously has to hang out with her most of the weekend so I see it as a positive that she is still doing her best to make time for me. Especially late on Sunday when she has work the next day and I’ve already said we can leave it until she’s settled into her new place but she seems to want to see me this weekend. But I know it’s only been one proper date so far so touch and go so will keep expectations modest and like I said being Sunday evening I’m not too fussed if it falls through 

She’s moving and has other commitments with friends. I agree with you. I wouldn’t be too bothered either if this weekend doesn’t work out. She is communicating with you and honest about how she feels which is tired! Reschedule for another time and let her pick a time/day.

[jazz_lover]

Yeah. Sunday evening fell through. By the time she was done with her tennis she said she'd have to shower and get ready and wouldn't be ready until 10pm. She said the friend she was temporarily staying with was going on a date Monday evening so might be better. I said sure we can do that. She said she felt bad about cancelling and felt she was being disrespectful because I kept my evening free for her. I said she didn't promise anything and I can understand that because her friend is hosting her that she has had to spend time with her. She latched on to this and agreed with me and said she would make it up to me tmrw and told me she wanted me to know she had really wanted to see me tonight (Sunday). 

This morning she texted saying she finishes work at 5.30 and what time and where works to meet. So seems to be on for tonight. Hopefully after tonight I will have a clearer read on where I stand as if we have a good date then the momentum should be on my side with her flat move getting done during the week and therefore no more excuses on that front.

 

[Rose Mosse]

2 hours ago, jazz_lover said:

Yeah. Sunday evening fell through. By the time she was done with her tennis she said she'd have to shower and get ready and wouldn't be ready until 10pm. She said the friend she was temporarily staying with was going on a date Monday evening so might be better. I said sure we can do that. She said she felt bad about cancelling and felt she was being disrespectful because I kept my evening free for her. I said she didn't promise anything and I can understand that because her friend is hosting her that she has had to spend time with her. She latched on to this and agreed with me and said she would make it up to me tmrw and told me she wanted me to know she had really wanted to see me tonight (Sunday). 

This morning she texted saying she finishes work at 5.30 and what time and where works to meet. So seems to be on for tonight. Hopefully after tonight I will have a clearer read on where I stand as if we have a good date then the momentum should be on my side with her flat move getting done during the week and therefore no more excuses on that front.

 

What clearer read do you need? She wants to keep seeing you and she’s interested. I’d suggest keeping your expectations realistic as she could still be fatigued from the weekend and want to go home early tonight, leave early etc. 

[jazz_lover]

Getting there with the arrangements but she says she needs to meet her future flat mate after work to discuss arrangements and then pick up some bedsheets. She said I could help her select. She mentioned a department store I thought she meant the central branch so said we could meet in central do the shopping then get some food. She said she meant the branch by her office. I said it would be easier to meet in central once she’s done with her friend and shopping. She said ok but then a bit later texted saying she didn’t understand why I never wanted to join when she tried to include me with stuff.

im guessing she meant the bed sheet shopping but also the few last minute invitations she gave in previous weeks to join her when she was out with friends but at the time I hardly knew her and had my own plans and didn’t fancy a group date.

I don’t really fancy making the long journey to her office to pick her up and do shopping especially as I might have to wait around while she’s with her friend when we were planning to eat and drink in central anyway. But she seems upset so should I say I can pick her up from work and do shopping with her ? Although I probably won’t get credit as she’ll assume I’m only offering to do because she got upset about it and not because I wanted to. 

[Wiseman2]

28 minutes ago, jazz_lover said:

she says she needs to meet her future flat mate after work to discuss arrangements and then pick up some bedsheets.

Don't waste your time. She's cancelling without cancelling. Really? Household shopping? Let her contact you when she actually has free time, not rearrange it into you being a chauffer/personal shopper.

[jazz_lover]

Well yeah she’s moving tmrw so I understand why she might need to pick up a few things but didn’t quite understand why she wanted me to come. Also not sure why she can’t finalise arrangements with her future flat mate via text. And in both cases the sensible thing would be to simply ask me if it’s ok if we meet at say 8 to allow plenty of time for her to do these things. It just feels like an unnecessary journey on my part and a weird add on to a date. But she’s sensitive so I think in her mind she’s trying to include me in her flat move and previously tried to include me with her socialising with friends and by not joining it shows I don’t care or something 
 

 

 

[Rose Mosse]

40 minutes ago, jazz_lover said:

Getting there with the arrangements but she says she needs to meet her future flat mate after work to discuss arrangements and then pick up some bedsheets. She said I could help her select. She mentioned a department store I thought she meant the central branch so said we could meet in central do the shopping then get some food. She said she meant the branch by her office. I said it would be easier to meet in central once she’s done with her friend and shopping. She said ok but then a bit later texted saying she didn’t understand why I never wanted to join when she tried to include me with stuff.

im guessing she meant the bed sheet shopping but also the few last minute invitations she gave in previous weeks to join her when she was out with friends but at the time I hardly knew her and had my own plans and didn’t fancy a group date.

I don’t really fancy making the long journey to her office to pick her up and do shopping especially as I might have to wait around while she’s with her friend when we were planning to eat and drink in central anyway. But she seems upset so should I say I can pick her up from work and do shopping with her ? Although I probably won’t get credit as she’ll assume I’m only offering to do because she got upset about it and not because I wanted to. 

She is very immature, Jazz. Meeting someone for a date does not usually mean shopping for bedsheets or hanging out as a group like teenagers with friends. 

This early you are already seeing dissimilar expectations in dating. She wants a guy she can tote around with her besties and show off before she has even gotten to know you well enough. Her priorities are completely backwards. 

If you don’t feel comfortable meeting with her be firm and clear and say that you prefer to go on dates and get to know one another before meeting her friends or family. From the sounds of your previous post I don’t think this will work out. She shouldn’t be getting upset with you for declining dates with her and her friends.

[jazz_lover]

I think partly it’s a cultural thing. She’s also Turkish (like the one from last year) and they don’t really get dating and because of the culture tend to socialise in mixed groups and then transition from friends to boyfriends. So I think trying to include me in her social circle is her partly her way of auditioning me as a potential boyfriend whereas the western way is to date and then much later down the line meet each other’s friends etc. 

I think the invites were also because she has been pretty busy over the past few months so scheduling dates had been difficult so she tried to tag me on to a few of her meet-ups with friends.

But yeah it is a little trying as I’m trying to work around her busy schedule and being patient and understanding and she’s upset I passed on some last minute invitations to join her with friends and aren’t keen to shop for bedsheets on our second proper date! 
 

Think best to just to ignore the accusation and see if she sticks with the plan to meet 7 30 in central after her chat with her friend and shopping. 

Oh another red flag I forgot to mention on our first date she mentioned her ex kept texting her wanting to get back together even though she’d told him she didn’t want any further contact. Last week she got upset that we struggled to schedule a date and said she didn’t seem to be my priority and that was why she broke up with her ex because he didn’t have time for her. And over the weekend she said her ex boyfriend had started texting her again and wouldn’t give up and it was so annoying. So I think she might be projecting a bit and anything I do that reminds me of his failings will get me in hot water also begs the question why she hadn’t blocked him

 

[DarkCh0c0]

Dude she has red flags everywhere. Let go.

Out of curiosity, why aren't you dating local women? And why aren't you investing your valuable time in dating other women too?

And fyi dating a Turkish lady a LOT of time means being a catering man (aka what Rose mentioned with chauffeuring, helping, ect.) even when you don't really know each other. It comes with the culture (there are some exceptions, yes. But majority of middle-eastern women are like that. It's just how they roll in relationships).

[DarkCh0c0]

There are women out there who would value your time, make time for you, and who would show active interest in you, you know? Ones that don't bring up their exes as well!

[Wiseman2]

56 minutes ago, jazz_lover said:

shop for bedsheets on our second proper date! 

Shopping for her household stuff is not a date nor audition as a BF. But go ahead and chase. Just think of the dog track where the dog never really gets the bone.🦴🐕‍🦺

[DarkCh0c0]

3 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Shopping for her household stuff is not a date nor audition as a BF.

Maybe shopping for bedsheets is secret code for sexy time 😆

[Wiseman2]

Just now, DarkCh0c0 said:

Maybe shopping for bedsheets is secret code for sexy time 😆

With the on/off ex?

[Batya33]

Cumulatively I'd throw in the towel (bed sheet?) on this one.  She's not putting in any real effort to make a plan for a date at this stage.

[jazz_lover]

I’m dating other women and my city is very cosmopolitan and I think because I’m blond and blue eyed I seem to match mostly with Mediterranean and Latin women on the apps. But yeah I’m not pinning all my hopes on this one.

I ignored the comment about never wanting to join and she later texted confirming 7 30 central. 
 

Will see how tonight goes (assuming no further last minute changes) then see if things get easier once she’s moved into her new place this week. But if it continues to be hard work will throw in the bed sheets as you suggest 
 

 

 

 

[MissCanuck]

She's way too high-maintenance. 

It's only, what, the 4th date? And already she's giving you grief?

Nah. I wouldn't bother with her. It's a sign of headaches to come. 

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, jazz_lover said:

But if it continues to be hard work will throw in the bed sheets as you suggest

[Rose Mosse]

3 hours ago, jazz_lover said:

I think partly it’s a cultural thing. She’s also Turkish (like the one from last year) and they don’t really get dating and because of the culture tend to socialise in mixed groups and then transition from friends to boyfriends. So I think trying to include me in her social circle is her partly her way of auditioning me as a potential boyfriend whereas the western way is to date and then much later down the line meet each other’s friends etc. 

I think the invites were also because she has been pretty busy over the past few months so scheduling dates had been difficult so she tried to tag me on to a few of her meet-ups with friends.

But yeah it is a little trying as I’m trying to work around her busy schedule and being patient and understanding and she’s upset I passed on some last minute invitations to join her with friends and aren’t keen to shop for bedsheets on our second proper date! 
 

Think best to just to ignore the accusation and see if she sticks with the plan to meet 7 30 in central after her chat with her friend and shopping. 

Oh another red flag I forgot to mention on our first date she mentioned her ex kept texting her wanting to get back together even though she’d told him she didn’t want any further contact. Last week she got upset that we struggled to schedule a date and said she didn’t seem to be my priority and that was why she broke up with her ex because he didn’t have time for her. And over the weekend she said her ex boyfriend had started texting her again and wouldn’t give up and it was so annoying. So I think she might be projecting a bit and anything I do that reminds me of his failings will get me in hot water also begs the question why she hadn’t blocked him

 

Regardless of culture there's disconnect and she's not what you want in a partner if you're not willing to meet her friends or think it's too soon. Her getting upset with you is her disconnect and her expectations failed or feeling disappointed with you. 

It doesn't sound like she's over her ex either. She might have shut that down and never have mentioned a word to you if she is serious about dating you or moving on with her life. Instead she found it useful to go on and on about it and let it influence her moving on with another man.

Maybe she lost the plot also with her ex and let things interfere with their relationship to this extent. From what you describe of her I'm not too convinced that her not being a priority to him is entirely her ex's fault either.

[jazz_lover]

Yeah she was a bit off tonight behaviour more similar to first two dates: nervous body language fidgeting a lot and shifty eye contact and while she showed a bit of affection giving me a warm hug to greet me and holding my hand a little at dinner generally she was a bit standoffish and when I tried to kiss her goodnight she gave me her cheek despite the fact we had made out for hours on our last date. 
 

Also we were talking a bit about psychology as she did her masters in that and she said she thinks people don’t change so when she sees red flags she gives up and referenced again the conversation we had a week or so ago when our schedules didn’t coordinate and she thought we didn’t have enough time together. 
 

also at dinner she had her phone on the table and her eyes darted towards it every time a message popped up and in general she seemed distracted. 
 

Strange because all weekend she was saying she missed me and was excited to see me again. 
 

So I think you might be right that her ex being in contact with her this weekend has put her guard up again and she didn’t make the same effort she made last weekend. 
 

also there was a bit of drama at the end her phone was dying and she wasn’t familiar with the route back to her friend. I said that I could take her to the nearest station and get her an Uber or directions but she refused saying she would find somewhere she can charge her phone which again interpreted as non interest 

so yeah shame really but doesn’t seem to be anything here and last week must have just been lightning striking