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Jealousy, Awkwardness, Work Friends


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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Alex39 said:

I'm not threatened by her. I guess just annoyed that everyone at work is fooled by her. She doesn't only kiss Betsy's butt. Betsy more than anyone else, but she kisses a lot of people's butt at work. I used to think it was her personality, but it's her doing it on purpose. I work hard, I'm myself 100% at work. She acts like she loves drinking at bars with one co-worker who loves to drink. Pam hates drinking, she tells me all the time. But there she is going out for drinks after work with him. She house and pet sits for our big bosses at work, so they love her. I find that to be a conflict of interest. 

I was honestly fine with Pam. Recently, Betsy, Pam, and I hangout for a long time and I saw a bit of competitiveness and clingy-ness like she wanted to make it clear, she was Betsy's friend more than me. I just didn't like that. I don't think that way and it offended me that she felt she had to almost check me,making sure I knew my place. We're all adults. That's what got me feeling like maybe she was jealous or threatened. I am bothered that she is threatened by me. Me! I'm like what? 

Well it's true, it can actually take some time to really get to know someone and realise that your ideas and values just don't align and in fact you don't really like that person.

I've been in that situation before myself. I also have a male friend who acted similar to this. He was in a job for over ten years and he always complaining about the job, yet for all that time never did anything about it. He chased women for years who weren't into him then complained how they only talk to him when some guy breaks up with him. He was with an abusive ex girlfriend and kept complaining to me how much he hated it, yet he didn't leave her for five years. I did find it frustrating and eventually just began to distance myself. Now I don't talk to him much or see him much at all.

What I've noticed from your post is that you're really frustrated with Pam and don't like her anymore but other people don't seem to have a problem with her. That doesn't mean you're wrong but maybe it just means Pam isn't your cup of tea. That doesn't automatically mean everyone else feels the same about her.

For example, Betsy and Pam have been friends for ten years. She pet sits for some managers at work because they LET her pet sit. She goes out for drinks with the friend from work because they WANT to go out with her for drinks. All these people are adults who are capable of making their own decisions and their decision is to hang out with Pam. You can't control other people so I think to save your own sanity you might just have to accept that these people don't actually have a problem with Pam. They're not stupid so if Pam is fake, surely they can see it. Yes it's annoying but these people are actually participating in interacting with Pam by their own choice.

Also I think Pam maybe does have the money to buy a house but she might have some kind of anxiety about it. You said she works twelve hours a day and she's always lived with her Mum. So her rent and bills were probably not that high. I assume with working so much and lower spending she probably does have a lot of money saved up. I still don't think that just because she didn't buy the particular house you showed her that she's incapable of buying one all together. Maybe she did panic, she got anxious. That actually seems normal when you're about to sign up for a mortgage forever. 

I can see your intentions about the house were good but it's not really your place to bring her to buy a house. Or to tell her to go for a walk. If you don't like how she is that's totally fine but it seemed like you expect her to be like you, and she's not you. You wrote all these things like: "She doesn't date, hasn't moved out, isn't fit and healthy, etc." So? I don't own a house, I rent. And I'm not particularly fit. I have lots if friends and they all don't have a problem with it. They like me as I am. Some of my friends own houses but they don't make me feel bad that I don't.

Edited by Tinydance
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9 hours ago, Batya33 said:

I was referring to your description from your original post.  Comes across as you not respecting her choices, judging how she dresses, her weight, what she chooses to eat, her decision not to exercise, that she overworks in your opinion and that she won't go for a walk with you -and on and on  -separately from what you wrote in your most recent post. (Oh and LOL I got my drivers license at age 49, five or so years ago and I still don't drive).  

I'm sorry this came across this way. I brouhjt these things up to prove that she is nothing like Betsy, who is the complete opposite of those things. That was my purpose. I do not care that Pam lives that life. But she is nothing like Betsy but acts fake to Betsy, pretending she isn't the way she is. 

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7 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

How is this a conflict of interests? 

They praise her at work. She goes into their homes, watches their giant homes, takes care of their pets when they travel. She then gets promotions and raises at work randomly for simply doing her job. 

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4 hours ago, Tinydance said:

Well it's true, it can actually take some time to really get to know someone and realise that your ideas and values just don't align and in fact you don't really like that person.

I've been in that situation before myself. I also have a male friend who acted similar to this. He was in a job for over ten years and he always complaining about the job, yet for all that time never did anything about it. He chased women for years who weren't into him then complained how they only talk to him when some guy breaks up with him. He was with an abusive ex girlfriend and kept complaining to me how much he hated it, yet he didn't leave her for five years. I did find it frustrating and eventually just began to distance myself. Now I don't talk to him much or see him much at all.

What I've noticed from your post is that you're really frustrated with Pam and don't like her anymore but other people don't seem to have a problem with her. That doesn't mean you're wrong but maybe it just means Pam isn't your cup of tea. That doesn't automatically mean everyone else feels the same about her.

For example, Betsy and Pam have been friends for ten years. She pet sits for some managers at work because they LET her pet sit. She goes out for drinks with the friend from work because they WANT to go out with her for drinks. All these people are adults who are capable of making their own decisions and their decision is to hang out with Pam. You can't control other people so I think to save your own sanity you might just have to accept that these people don't actually have a problem with Pam. They're not stupid so if Pam is fake, surely they can see it. Yes it's annoying but these people are actually participating in interacting with Pam by their own choice.

Also I think Pam maybe does have the money to buy a house but she might have some kind of anxiety about it. You said she works twelve hours a day and she's always lived with her Mum. So her rent and bills were probably not that high. I assume with working so much and lower spending she probably does have a lot of money saved up. I still don't think that just because she didn't buy the particular house you showed her that she's incapable of buying one all together. Maybe she did panic, she got anxious. That actually seems normal when you're about to sign up for a mortgage forever. 

I can see your intentions about the house were good but it's not really your place to bring her to buy a house. Or to tell her to go for a walk. If you don't like how she is that's totally fine but it seemed like you expect her to be like you, and she's not you. You wrote all these things like: "She doesn't date, hasn't moved out, isn't fit and healthy, etc." So? I don't own a house, I rent. And I'm not particularly fit. I have lots if friends and they all don't have a problem with it. They like me as I am. Some of my friends own houses but they don't make me feel bad that I don't.

I do not expect her to be like me. Everyone is different. I'm always 100% me. Pam talked the good talk to me too like she was just pike me and agreeing with me on a lot. But now I see she isn't like me at all. I think I was confused. She wanted a house and was ready to buy. We go see one and she freaks. I offered to go see others with her and told her I didn't care if she liked that one in particular. She made up every excuse in the book to not move, but then preaches how she is going to buy a house. "It's a busy time to pack up and move for me" and"I have to talk to my mom" and "I have so much going on at work" and "my mom needs me right now." It's confusing. Now I don't trust anything she says anymore. Just say you aren't in a place to move out. I respect that. I was sticking my neck out trying to help her find a place because she spoke about owning her own home every day.

 

She preached to me about wanting to exercise and loving it and how she used to all the time. She told me that she abd I should workout together. She says it all the time. Every time I ask, she turns me down and makes lame excuses. Just be upfront that you don't want nor like exercising. It's me who is confused. 

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10 hours ago, Alex39 said:

I think I'm not being understood. I do not care if she buys a house, or if she leaves her mother, or what she does. Why I mentioned that is, because she preaches to everyone how independent, ready to buy a house, ready to date, ready for kids she is. You would think she was doing all those things by her confident talk. That's why I brought her to that open house. I genuinely thought she wanted to buy a place,  by the way she spoke. She preaches to Betsy all this stuff and acts like she and Betsy are twins. She acts like she's thos confident bad ***. But that's not true. 

She told me she took home buyers classes and how she was an expert on knowing what's what. When I saw a nice home for sale, I suggested she come look. In front of the selling realtor she acted snooty and like she was ready to buy and had oodles of money. As soon as we were alone again at my house, she acted like a hot mess. She didn't know one thing about mortgages or what to do. She even freaked out about moving. She practically had a panic attack in front of me. 

I don't care what she does. If she moves or not. But don't talk like you are going to buy a house, you are an expert, and how much of a bad b**** you are, when that isn't true. I think its insecurity on her part. Now when I see her interact with others, I see it as fake. She is trying so hard to impress Betsy and continue to make Betsy think they are the same person. But I've gotten to know them both separately and she and Betsy are not alike at all. Why at 40 years old do you have to suck up to her? I'm 31 and I don't have to suck up to anyone like that. I'm just myself. 

So Pam is full of sh1t.  Stop interacting with her so much since you know she's full of it!  She sounds annoying with her lies and wild stories and you sound so very over involved.  What is your point in telling us all of these things about Pam?  You seem to see her for what she is (a liar) so stop hanging out with her so much.  You can be cordial without being in the middle of her ife.

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59 minutes ago, Alex39 said:

I do not expect her to be like me. Everyone is different. I'm always 100% me. Pam talked the good talk to me too like she was just pike me and agreeing with me on a lot. But now I see she isn't like me at all. I think I was confused. She wanted a house and was ready to buy. We go see one and she freaks. I offered to go see others with her and told her I didn't care if she liked that one in particular. She made up every excuse in the book to not move, but then preaches how she is going to buy a house. "It's a busy time to pack up and move for me" and"I have to talk to my mom" and "I have so much going on at work" and "my mom needs me right now." It's confusing. Now I don't trust anything she says anymore. Just say you aren't in a place to move out. I respect that. I was sticking my neck out trying to help her find a place because she spoke about owning her own home every day.

 

She preached to me about wanting to exercise and loving it and how she used to all the time. She told me that she abd I should workout together. She says it all the time. Every time I ask, she turns me down and makes lame excuses. Just be upfront that you don't want nor like exercising. It's me who is confused. 

But why are you sticking your neck out to help her? You don't actually need to do that. As you mentioned yourself a number of times in your post, she's 39 years old. She has to do things on her own. Her not doing anything doesn't stop you from anything you want to do. You're still living your life, exercising, dating, whatever you like.

So I think your best course of action is just to not worry about Pam at all. I can see why it would be annoying that she did all those things but it's just who she is. There is no need to be friends with her if you prefer not to be. You don't have to talk to her that much or see her much outside of work. If you want to just see Betsy, then organise things just with Betsy.

Friendship is a choice so make a choice as you want. If you're actually choosing to be friends with Pam then sorry but you can't really complain about her behaviour because you already know how she is. She won't change so that's out of your control. You can only control if you're friends with her or not.

Do you also have other friends and family outside of work? There's nothing wrong with being friends with people at work but you just seem very fixated on people at work. You say you hang out with Betsy all the time and are friends with her son and talk to him a lot too. And you hung out with Pam a lot. You do actually seem overly in invested in these people and preoccupied with what they're doing, etc. It's great you get along so well with Betsy but do you also have people your own age to hang out with? 

I just imagine if you go out to events or bars for example  (not sure if you do) and you're trying to meet guys. Do you go there with other friends? I think if you went to places like that with Betsy then if you wanted to talk to guys, you actually have another woman with you who is your mother's age. It might be refreshing to have some other friends in your own age group, no?

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Tinydance said:

Well it's true, it can actually take some time to really get to know someone and realise that your ideas and values just don't align and in fact you don't really like that person.

I've been in that situation before myself. I also have a male friend who acted similar to this. He was in a job for over ten years and he always complaining about the job, yet for all that time never did anything about it. He chased women for years who weren't into him then complained how they only talk to him when some guy breaks up with him. He was with an abusive ex girlfriend and kept complaining to me how much he hated it, yet he didn't leave her for five years. I did find it frustrating and eventually just began to distance myself. Now I don't talk to him much or see him much at all.

What I've noticed from your post is that you're really frustrated with Pam and don't like her anymore but other people don't seem to have a problem with her. That doesn't mean you're wrong but maybe it just means Pam isn't your cup of tea. That doesn't automatically mean everyone else feels the same about her.

For example, Betsy and Pam have been friends for ten years. She pet sits for some managers at work because they LET her pet sit. She goes out for drinks with the friend from work because they WANT to go out with her for drinks. All these people are adults who are capable of making their own decisions and their decision is to hang out with Pam. You can't control other people so I think to save your own sanity you might just have to accept that these people don't actually have a problem with Pam. They're not stupid so if Pam is fake, surely they can see it. Yes it's annoying but these people are actually participating in interacting with Pam by their own choice.

Also I think Pam maybe does have the money to buy a house but she might have some kind of anxiety about it. You said she works twelve hours a day and she's always lived with her Mum. So her rent and bills were probably not that high. I assume with working so much and lower spending she probably does have a lot of money saved up. I still don't think that just because she didn't buy the particular house you showed her that she's incapable of buying one all together. Maybe she did panic, she got anxious. That actually seems normal when you're about to sign up for a mortgage forever. 

I can see your intentions about the house were good but it's not really your place to bring her to buy a house. Or to tell her to go for a walk. If you don't like how she is that's totally fine but it seemed like you expect her to be like you, and she's not you. You wrote all these things like: "She doesn't date, hasn't moved out, isn't fit and healthy, etc." So? I don't own a house, I rent. And I'm not particularly fit. I have lots if friends and they all don't have a problem with it. They like me as I am. Some of my friends own houses but they don't make me feel bad that I don't.

I feel like this post summarizes the entire thread extremely well. In fact I really couldn’t have put it better myself if I tried.

One thing to note is how harshly you judge someone who isn’t doing as well as you in terms of their health or social situations (dating, lying).

Everybody has their own struggles in life. Sometimes we need to be humble ourselves and accept people for who they are. Understand that everyone is trying their very best in spite of all their flaws. When you learn to forgive people and allow them into your life willing and openly, you will find that you will be much more fulfilled in your own life.

The the way we feel about others is sometimes a reflection of how we feel about ourself. Take a moment and think about ten things you love about yourself everyday. In time you will learn to appreciate and love the people closest to you. 

Edited by junebug123
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I still can't see why you want to be friends with this person, OP.

You clearly don't like her. You don't like that she's advancing at work. You take a lot of her behaviour more personally than you should. 

What are you getting out of this? 

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5 hours ago, Alex39 said:

They praise her at work. She goes into their homes, watches their giant homes, takes care of their pets when they travel. She then gets promotions and raises at work randomly for simply doing her job. 

So? She is well liked by the management.  Maybe she does a good job. You seem resentful of that. 

Perhaps if you focused more on work than gossiping,you would get more praise and raises?

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9 hours ago, Alex39 said:

They praise her at work. She goes into their homes, watches their giant homes, takes care of their pets when they travel. She then gets promotions and raises at work randomly for simply doing her job. 

So you offer to do the same.  And if you truly think it's a conflict of interest why haven't you reported it to HR? Because it's not.  I mean maybe it violates some rule in your particular company but in general -common sense- why in the world can't an employee have a side hustle for a supervisor? I would think having coworkers help in your home is a great idea - built in reliability and trust!

Just like at work my coworkers will tell others about places they volunteer and encourage others to join - so is that a conflict of interest too?? If one of my coworkers had asked me to babysit, or arrange or meal delivery to their homes,  and I could I would have whether for $ or otherwise (or my boss).  You have no idea why she got raises and promotions. 

Newsflash - it probably has to do with aspects of her work you know nothing about and aren't supposed to know.  And people get raises and promotions for showing good values and character and reliability and that can be related to their volunteer work outside the office or as in this case this side hustle she has.  It's none of your business cause you're not her boss.  

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You are very hostile and bitter in everything you say about "Pam."  The way you talk about her does not paint you in a very good light.  There is no benefit to cataloging every flaw or thing you disagree with this way.  It is toxic. 

Evidently "Pam" and "Betsy" are friends.  "Betsy" might have to move on from her relationship with you if you keep this up.

Do yourself, and her, a favor and just deal with her in a professional way when your work requires it.  Spend your energy on important things, like your real friendships.

 

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