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Me and my friend's wife's holiday romance


mwacuk

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OP, for what it's worth...

My dear, now-departed aunt had an affair around 25 years ago. With a long-time family friend. Both my aunt and her AP were married with kids. I don't know how long it went on, but according to my cousin, it was a while. 

Want to know who found out first and blew it up? One of the AP's kids. Inadvertently, because she was too young to really understand what she had seen and heard. But she mentioned some of it to my cousin, who was older and immediately knew something was wrong. And he went to my unlce. From there, the whole affair was exposed. 

My aunt and uncle remained married, but my cousins needed a long time to get over the pain she caused them and their dad. I am not sure they ever truly forgave her, even decades later. The AP and his wife divorced. She kicked him out. As of a couple years ago, he still had a very frosty relationship with his own kids. (My cousins are still friends with them) 

It was most certainly not Happy Ever After, for any of the parties involved. Think carefully about the damage you could cause to your own kids, even if they're too little now to understand. These things have a way of being revealed over time and staying with the most innocent: the children caught in the middle. 

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How about you focus on your unhappy relationship with Gemma here? Why not break up and split child care? At least you'll be single and able to see other people.

As for Chloe, nothing serious will come out of this. As long as she's married, she's not yours and she won't be.

You also betrayed your "best friend". Honestly, shame on you. You're the "worse man" and not best man. How can you even look at your friend?

And People will find out... I would say distance yourself from Chloe, and break up with Gemma. Your relationship with her is useless and you're lying and leading her on. You have complete disrespect to Gemma. It's outrageous.

What you're doing is not healthy nor fair to anyone's kids or any party on this whole mess. Be less self-centred man! Get a reality check and stop chasing fantasies.

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Yeah, first of all, of course you're so into this with her, because it's like a fantasy and also is like the beginning of any new relationship... Is called the Honeymoon phase. ( that will fade) .

But, inside you know it's all wrong.  And as mentioned, she's most likely leaned your way because she is lacking that in her marriage. - so an affair.

Another thing, she is torn between you and her husband?  Well, that tells you something as well, doesn't it?

I am pretty sure this WILL end up badly, as someone will come to suspect something... so maybe is time to end all!

Respect your friend.. and his wife.  Respect yourself & whatever you've got with this Gemma.

You were weak, you went there.. but nothing good will come of this, except hurt feelings & guilt.

I agree.. be done with Gemma and move along.  Don't sit forever with guilt sitting on your shoulders.

 

 

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10 hours ago, BecxyRex said:

Love can cloud judgement, but in my mind you have already lost that friend when you started sleeping with his wife. Cut ties with both of them and start fresh.

Great advice except I have to comment on the above.  That's never an excuse to react to feelings of love by choosing to get drunk and choosing to have sex in this situation.  He could have reacted simply by acknowledging his feelings privately and choosing to keep his distance.  Or choosing to leave Gemma knowing he was in love with someone else and then dating Chloe if by chance she divorced her husband in the future.  So many choices.  Clouding judgment happens with lots of emotions and human beings choose the reaction, often in line with their values and often when it's so much easier not to do the right thing.

It's even worse as he claims he cares for his friend -guess that caring went out the window.

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OK so me and Chloe met for lunch and we've made the decision to stop what we're doing. We've both agreed that we still love each other and the feelings will never go away but as far as any actual intimacy is concerned, that will now stop. Chloe has suggested that if we are ever away away together we can have a bit of fun, which suggests she deep down still clings to a future occasion where we can be intimate; she has also said she would get with me if we were ever in a position for that to legitimately happen. I agree with her second point, not the first as that's just carrying our affire on in my eyes. 

I've told her that I will be breaking up with Gemma in the next few months (not immediately as Chloe suggested because this could cause suspicion and upend everything if anyone makes the connection between the holiday and the breakup) , no idea how to even go about it but wish me luck. 

Chloe (and Jamie) will support us through the breakup. 

If no one finds out what's already happened then if this can end with Chloe and Jamie's marriage salvaged that will be an amazing end for all involved. 

Wish us luck 

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5 minutes ago, mwacuk said:

I will be breaking up with Gemma

This is important, and a step in the right direction. 

It is clear your relationship with her is dead in the water, and you're checked out. That happens sometimes, and the best solution is to end it. Your children will be okay, if you and she support them effectively in this transition. 

8 minutes ago, mwacuk said:

If no one finds out what's already happened then if this can end with Chloe and Jamie's marriage salvaged that will be an amazing end for all involved. 

Not really. It might be amazing for you and Chloe because you won't be held accountable - but not for Jamie who doesn't know that he can't and shouldn't trust the people who are closest to him. 

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8 minutes ago, MissCanuck said:

Not really. It might be amazing for you and Chloe because you won't be held accountable - but not for Jamie who doesn't know that he can't and shouldn't trust the people who are closest to him.

You are right in principle, but if we can move on from this and Chloe remains happy with Jamie I don't see what the benefit is of him ever finding out. If me and Chloe can permanently stick to our word today, what are you suggesting we admit to him we've both screwed him over so at least he can choose to be free of us both? Are you saying Chloe should end it with him just so he has the opportunity to meet a more loyal partner (and by extension friend)? 

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17 minutes ago, mwacuk said:

OK so me and Chloe met for lunch and we've made the decision to stop what we're doing. We've both agreed that we still love each other and the feelings will never go away but as far as any actual intimacy is concerned, that will now stop. Chloe has suggested that if we are ever away away together we can have a bit of fun, which suggests she deep down still clings to a future occasion where we can be intimate; she has also said she would get with me if we were ever in a position for that to legitimately happen. I agree with her second point, not the first as that's just carrying our affire on in my eyes. 

I've told her that I will be breaking up with Gemma in the next few months (not immediately as Chloe suggested because this could cause suspicion and upend everything if anyone makes the connection between the holiday and the breakup) , no idea how to even go about it but wish me luck. 

Chloe (and Jamie) will support us through the breakup. 

If no one finds out what's already happened then if this can end with Chloe and Jamie's marriage salvaged that will be an amazing end for all involved. 

Wish us luck 

Chloe seems to want the best of both worlds which is incredibly disrespectful to both you and her husband. I'm referring to her proposal to "have a bit of fun" again if the opportunity presents itself. It is very foolish to believe she's interested in more with you.

Emotions can get distorted and blown out of proportion but take a good look at the way she's treated Jamie. Ask yourself whether you could without a doubt trust her at all even if you two were the last people on earth. I personally wouldn't have anything to do with a person like that. She could backstab you at anytime just to save herself or if she feels she's entitled to more than what's fair to her. She's no partner and no friend. 

I'd suggest you focus on one thing at a time and leave C to her own devices.

You're in a vulnerable position preparing to break up with your long time partner and will have to deal with the legalities and fall out regarding juggling your kids (visitations/custody) and working out dividing assets.

Right now it may seem like it's all about your newfound romance and how C appears to have feelings for you. Wait six months or a year from now when things start to get very real and see whether you still feel the same way about this woman.

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If you can look Jamie in the eye and continue to lie to him and pretend to be his "best friend" with zero feelings of guilt...well, I have to say that's next level of being capable of deceit. 

I guess you can tell yourself you're doing it for him or whatever.

I do agree that ending your relationship is the right thing to do. You can work out a custody, visitation and support agreement. That way you can have all the (single) women you want without having to resort to cheating. 

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21 minutes ago, mwacuk said:

 I don't see what the benefit is of him ever finding out. 

Just end it here and now and take it to your graves with you. Why hurt everyone? In the meantime focus on what you want to do about your unhappy situation, let those two figure out their problems. You need to distance yourself from them.

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I hope Jamie finds out... :)

You don't see a benefit of him knowing because it wouldn't benefit you, would it?

Typical selfish cheater behaviour. I hope you never get in touch with Jamie and Chloe ever again. At least do your gf justice and break up with her asap instead of using her as some comfort blanket that makes your ego feel better. Be a man and step up for the kids at least.

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Are you sure you are choosing the right woman?  I know deep down you hope Chloe will divorce and you two can be together but the woman has no morals, heck less than you so is that someone you want to be in a relationship with? 

 Break up with your gf, spend some time alone and single and put plenty of distance between Chloe and her husband.

 Honestly I don't know how you can act like his best buddy while banging his wife.  You need to do some serious soul searching that is for sure.

 I wonder how many other guys Chloe has banged while married???  I doubt you weren't the first and with her lack of respect and honesty you will surely not be the last.

 Pretty sad really but at least your gf can one day find an honorable man.

 Lost

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You expect and wish for Jamie to support you through your pending break-up? Dude, you don’t deserve his support! How can you have the audacity to hope for that when you unethically and immorally engaged in an intimate relationship with his wife completely unbeknownst to him and when he gave you and his wife the honour of his precious trust while alway.

Do Jamie a favour and remove yourself from his life completely; you’re not an honourable friend to have around. Chloe certainly isn’t a good wife either, but that is none of your concern or within your control to action; you can only control your own behaviour and should only control your own behaviour.

To be clear, no one here is faulting you for having feelings for Chloe or having lost feelings for Gemma - things are what they are. What people have a problem with is your complete and utter lack of integrity, honour, decency, honesty, self-awareness and self-respect, and the respect for all those around you who are directly connected to both yours and Chloe’s families/lives.

Sort yourself out and have the decency to not ask for Jamie’s support while you finally do the right thing by Gemma and leave your charade of a relationship.

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12 hours ago, mwacuk said:

Are you saying Chloe should end it with him just so he has the opportunity to meet a more loyal partner (and by extension friend)? 

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. 

He deserves the opportunity to find a partner and a best friend who have his back and are trustworthy, respectful people who value him. 

The two of you are not those people anymore. 

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12 hours ago, Rose Mosse said:

Chloe seems to want the best of both worlds which is incredibly disrespectful to both you and her husband. I'm referring to her proposal to "have a bit of fun" again if the opportunity presents itself. It is very foolish to believe she's interested in more with you.

Emotions can get distorted and blown out of proportion but take a good look at the way she's treated Jamie. Ask yourself whether you could without a doubt trust her at all even if you two were the last people on earth. I personally wouldn't have anything to do with a person like that. She could backstab you at anytime just to save herself or if she feels she's entitled to more than what's fair to her. She's no partner and no friend. 

I'd suggest you focus on one thing at a time and leave C to her own devices.

You're in a vulnerable position preparing to break up with your long time partner and will have to deal with the legalities and fall out regarding juggling your kids (visitations/custody) and working out dividing assets.

Right now it may seem like it's all about your newfound romance and how C appears to have feelings for you. Wait six months or a year from now when things start to get very real and see whether you still feel the same way about this woman.

I agree with this post. I think yes you're tired of the loveless relationship with Gemma and you're looking for real love. But I think the problem is you didn't actually find it with Chloe, you just think you did.

I think like the others have said, if Chloe was truly in love with you, she would leave Jamie for you. She basically told you that she won't leave him because she's still in love with him as well. She wants to only keep seeing you in secret and "have a bit of fun". Like other posters here said, I don't actually think she sees you as the love of her life but rather just as someone to have sex and have an affair with. I would guess that your feelings for her are a lot stronger than hers about you. 

The question is do you just want to continue being the side guy for Chloe? It's clear you're not happy with Gemma but there are still a lot more other women out there. I don't think it's very realistic to keep waiting for Chloe to leave Jamie because there's a high chance that's not going to happen. She could actually leave him now but she just doesn't want to. 

Also I know you're really infatuated with Chloe so you've got rose coloured glasses on. You said something along the lines of that your connection or depth of relationship with Chloe is better than her and Jamie. I know you'd like that to be the case but in reality it's probably not.

She's been with Jamie for many years, she chose to marry him and have kids with him. You haven't really been in "a relationship" with her. You had a short time together on the holiday and seen each other a few times since. I think realistically this "relationship" isn't super deep because you've only been together in a sense in some superficial settings, like hookup situations. It's not like you've lived together, gone on lots of dates, gone places, been through fights and ups and downs together. Everything seems perfect with Chloe because you just haven't had any time or chance to see the downsides or to find out if you truly are compatible.

Well, there is one HUGE obvious down side, she's married to your best friend lol

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  • 3 months later...

UPDATE sorry for the long post

It’s coming up to four months since me and Chloe’s holiday and despite us making some really good progress, things really are still a mess, at least in my head. 
Firstly, I decided to have another really good go at rekindling my relationship with Gemma. I need to know I’ve done everything I can to make this work. I still feel the relationship is really cold and affection seems hard to come by despite my best efforts. 
Chloe is still with Jamie, but Chloe has complained to me again that she is feeling that Jamie is cold to her and she is unsatisfied with her sex life. 
Since the previous post, me and Chloe have cooled our relationship, but have relapsed a few times up until late July and have now managed about six weeks without any intimacy beyond hugging. My problem is now how much I trust Chloe, and this is tearing me apart. I want to be clear, Chloe has not been around, she has had sex with two men in her life (me and Jamie), as friends prior to the holiday , we have always been very open about what has happened with other people to each other, and I have no reason to doubt that. However, Chloe had told me prior to the holiday that she had kissed other men on nights out (I go out with her more than anyone else and I have never witnessed this) so I assumed this had only happened once or twice. Since the holiday, because my level of curiosity has risen, I have began talking to several of our mutual friends and they have told me that this is actually quite a regular occurrence, but they have all told me that Chloe has never gone off with any of these men or done anything more with them. Since our holiday, Chloe was joking to Jamie in my presence about how she passionately kissed a gay man (I’ve checked and said man is indeed gay and is in a relationship with a man). Chloe seemed to believe that this was perfectly fine, even to confess to Jamie. I later asked Jamie, in private, how he felt about this and Jamie then confessed that Chloe had actually kissed men when they were on nights out together and this had caused to major arguments between them. But he did say that he does trust her as she explained to him that she enjoys the validation this brings and has only done this under a lot of alcohol and would never do anything more because she simply wouldn’t feel trusting towards another man like she does him. I had also spoken to Chloe about this as this hit me hard knowing she regularly did this and she told me the same thing, except by extension she also felt safe and trusting with me also. I believed she had done this once or twice, not regularly so this has been a shock to me. 
Despite this, this has really knocked my trust for Chloe. I have this horrible idea in my mind that while me and her have cooled, the void will now be left, coupled with our affair may have ‘normalised’ being intimate with other men for Chloe and she may simply cheat again on Jamie. 
About two weeks ago, me and Chloe were meant to be going out for a meal and Chloe cancelled at the last minute then when she spoke to me the next day she said that despite the space we’d already had, she felt we were meeting for the wrong reasons and she felt guilty. 
I met for a meal with my ex, Cassie (from 15 years ago) that night instead (all above board and Gemma is aware). I’d mentioned it in a separate conversation with Jamie a few days later, but he’d told Chloe, unknowing to me)
Last week Chloe came to mine for dinner (Gemma was away for a few days) – Chloe confronted me about me meeting Cassie and was quite clearly bothered by this. My plan that evening was to keep everything plutonic with Chloe, but Chloe started talking about how much she missed me and wishes she could be back on holiday with me and how she wanted to do that again. All the feelings came flooding back for both of us that night, no intimacy but we cuddled a lot. It kind of took me back as I thought Chloe didn’t care anymore, but the idea of me seeing another women other than Gemma had clearly stirred up a lot of feelings she had for me. 
I’m still so confused. After that night, I was so close to telling Chloe that even being friends was not going to work and we need serious space, but after a day, I can’t do it. I need her so much as a friend, but it’s like ‘friend Chloe’ and ‘lover Chloe’ are completely mixed up now and can’t be separated. 
The really cynical part of me believes this guilt she talks about is just a front because she’s realised that anything with me is too complicated but with someone else would be fine. Maybe I’m just overthinking it, but it would kill me inside if I found out she was cheating on Jamie with another man, it would kill me inside to imagine her doing that just because I love her. I watched her cheat on Jamie with me, how good she ‘acted’ for the first few weeks after we got back and I just don’t quite ‘buy’ that she suddenly feels much more guilty now, especially after what I have learned about what she does on nights outs. 
I’m really struggling to let this go. I wish I could, but I find myself in dark places overthinking about what Chloe might do  and have the bittersweet of the memories of our holiday coming back at random times. How do you let go? This has killed my confidence and grounding. 
 

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OP, I have some very direct questions for you that you need to ask yourself. 

First, let me just say that I think no matter what happens with Chloe or anyone else, you should divorce your wife since you clearly aren't in love with her.  Even when Chloe wasn't around, you still met another woman for dinner.  Please let your wife go so she can find someone that really loves her passionately. 

Now, onto my questions. 

1. Do you love Chloe enough to point blank ask her to leave her husband and marry you?  If not, why not?   If you think she'd say no, then why?

2. Assuming you did choose to be with Chloe, do you feel you could trust her?  Her current husband is aware and seemingly comfortable with the idea of her normally kissing other men.   And let's be realistic, she's likely done more at least occasionally.  If she was drunk, she might not even remember.  Do you want to be married to someone like that?  Could YOU handle it, as her current husband does? 

^ That all being said, WHY is her husband so "okay" with it?  And so okay with her going on vacay with another man?  I strongly suspect he is having an affair of his own. 

3. What, in an ideal world, do you WANT to happen?  Really think about this. 

You need to make some real decisions, and fast.   If you don't, this will all eventually blow up in your face. 

If Chloe is the love of your life and you can't live without each other- then divorce your spouses and marry each other.   Happens every day.  My big question is- why haven't either of you even considered that?  Granted, I don't personally think that's the best beginning, but at least you'd both be being honest and freeing spouses you don't love. 

If you think this is just a game for her, and she's committed to staying with her husband, then you need to tell her you're done- fully and permanently and she cannot be mad about you moving on, whatever that looks like.  

COMMIT or get off the pot! 

Either rip off the band-aid and come clean, or else stop the relationship immediately and permanently.   Neither will be pretty or fun, but both are better than living a lie and betraying other people. 

Time to make a decision and stick with it. 

 

 

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14 minutes ago, redswim30 said:

OP, I have some very direct questions for you that you need to ask yourself. 

First, let me just say that I think no matter what happens with Chloe or anyone else, you should divorce your wife since you clearly aren't in love with her.  Even when Chloe wasn't around, you still met another woman for dinner.  Please let your wife go so she can find someone that really loves her passionately. 

Now, onto my questions. 

1. Do you love Chloe enough to point blank ask her to leave her husband and marry you?  If not, why not?   If you think she'd say no, then why?

2. Assuming you did choose to be with Chloe, do you feel you could trust her?  Her current husband is aware and seemingly comfortable with the idea of her normally kissing other men.   And let's be realistic, she's likely done more at least occasionally.  If she was drunk, she might not even remember.  Do you want to be married to someone like that?  Could YOU handle it, as her current husband does? 

^ That all being said, WHY is her husband so "okay" with it?  And so okay with her going on vacay with another man?  I strongly suspect he is having an affair of his own. 

3. What, in an ideal world, do you WANT to happen?  Really think about this. 

You need to make some real decisions, and fast.   If you don't, this will all eventually blow up in your face. 

If Chloe is the love of your life and you can't live without each other- then divorce your spouses and marry each other.   Happens every day.  My big question is- why haven't either of you even considered that?  Granted, I don't personally think that's the best beginning, but at least you'd both be being honest and freeing spouses you don't love. 

If you think this is just a game for her, and she's committed to staying with her husband, then you need to tell her you're done- fully and permanently and she cannot be mad about you moving on, whatever that looks like.  

COMMIT or get off the pot! 

Either rip off the band-aid and come clean, or else stop the relationship immediately and permanently.   Neither will be pretty or fun, but both are better than living a lie and betraying other people. 

Time to make a decision and stick with it. 

 

 

I was literally going to write all the same myself! What I was going to say is, I think you need to really think about what kind of relationship you actually want to have. I'm not saying just with Chloe, but in general. What would you want from the relationship and what expectations would you have of your partner? 

The reason why I ask this is because you can see from Chloe's behaviour from a long way back that she's not a monogamous person. Her husband does seem OK with her kissing other men, even in front of him. Maybe they have an open or polyamorous marriage or maybe yes, he's having affairs of his own.

What you have a lot of evidence of though is that Chloe is not a one man gal. Do you want to be with a woman who is also seeing other men? If the answer is yes, no problem. If the answer is "no" though then Chloe can't be the right person for you because she wouldn't be with only you. I'm pretty sure this is just how Chloe rolls and who she is, and people don't change. 

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A woman who runs around with multitudes of other men isn't going to be "different" with you.

Same for a man who runs around. He isn't going to meet the "right" woman who will make him want to settle down.

My ex ran around. He then met and fell in love with one of the women he cheated on me with. Despite his declarations of love and his obvious fascination with her he STILL was running around with other women . I know this because he attempted to reconnect with me, multiple times, while he was supposed to be in a committed love relationship with her.

If you enjoy being one of many, then divorce your wife and be one of Chloe's paramours.

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5 hours ago, Tinydance said:

Chloe's behaviour from a long way back that she's not a monogamous person. Her husband does seem OK with her kissing other men, even in front of him. Maybe they have an open or polyamorous

Jamie really isn't okay with her doing this. Jamie and Chloe absolutely are not in an open relationship. Jamie has said to me that when he has challenges Chloe about this, Chloe has blackmailed him and said he was being 'controlling'. Jamie has said that he 'trusts' Chloe, obviously my prospective changes how trustworthy Chloe is simply because of what happened between me and her. 

And just to be clear, me and Chloe prior to the holiday were very open with each other about each others affairs with others outside our own relationships. While she could have lied to me, I don't feel she would have had any reason to. Remember me and Chloe were best friends (plutonic) prior to May. I don't believe Chloe is 'running around with other men' beyond kissing a few when drunk. She seemed very candid when discussing this both previously and since our affair. My concern is, what happened with me and her may 'normalise' going further than just kissing (I have no concrete evidence to say this is the case) 

6 hours ago, redswim30 said:

OP, I have some very direct questions for you that you need to ask yourself. 

First, let me just say that I think no matter what happens with Chloe or anyone else, you should divorce your wife since you clearly aren't in love with her.  Even when Chloe wasn't around, you still met another woman for dinner.  Please let your wife go so she can find someone that really loves her passionately. 

Now, onto my questions. 

1. Do you love Chloe enough to point blank ask her to leave her husband and marry you?  If not, why not?   If you think she'd say no, then why?

2. Assuming you did choose to be with Chloe, do you feel you could trust her?  Her current husband is aware and seemingly comfortable with the idea of her normally kissing other men.   And let's be realistic, she's likely done more at least occasionally.  If she was drunk, she might not even remember.  Do you want to be married to someone like that?  Could YOU handle it, as her current husband does? 

^ That all being said, WHY is her husband so "okay" with it?  And so okay with her going on vacay with another man?  I strongly suspect he is having an affair of his own. 

3. What, in an ideal world, do you WANT to happen?  Really think about this. 

You need to make some real decisions, and fast.   If you don't, this will all eventually blow up in your face. 

If Chloe is the love of your life and you can't live without each other- then divorce your spouses and marry each other.   Happens every day.  My big question is- why haven't either of you even considered that?

 

 

I don't want to be in a relationship with Chloe. I would struggle to trust her fully. But, going forwards I need to be friends with Chloe and rekindle the friendship to resemble something similar to what we had before. What will make this very difficult for me and what I fear is the impact on seeing her going on to have further affairs because our affair may have changed her outlook and the hurt that would cause. 

I'm desperately trying to hang on to my best friend. What I need help/advice is whether this is something that is possible with time and if anyone has ever gone down the journey of best friends, to lovers and back again successfully?

 

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