Should I Run Away?

[EitherDare0]

5 minutes ago, smackie9 said:

Well you need to talk to her more about her intentions...and ask some hard questions. 

I have, and in the moment it sounded legit and genuine, but since then I have had time to reflect. 

I am trying to find it, but it's some relationship theory that suggests to wait longer before getting physical. In order to build a significant relationship. I do think she regrets having sex with me when she did, because it betrayed this model she believes in of how to form good long-term relationships. I think she regrets doing that, and she has stated that's not her. I really feel like early on I was "Some hot guy who was edgy and fulfilled that need", but I have since evolved into someone she is getting some feelings for. And she seems like being sexually early on more would ruin potential.

Where we disagree is that... well that Genie is already out on the bottle. You can't undo sex.. and it;s clear we have fantastic sexual chemistry. But her way of achieving a significant relationship seems different.

[DarkCh0c0]

3 hours ago, EitherDare0 said:

She broke it off with her long-term BF in December,

I honestly think she might have been rebounding. When you rebound, the sex drive is high. Now the dust settled and she's back peddling cause emotions are kicking in. So you're in this grey area whereby she is healing/dealing with her feelings about you and the ex.

I'd say she's not ready date and she's being honest with you.

I don't know if you'd be happy to stay in this grey area... She might come to a point where she realizes she doesn't want you or anyone. You're just on hold depending on her process.

It's up to you to choose whether this arrangement works for you. I would personally out and stop investing into someone who isn't at a similar level and who has not moved on entirely from their ex relationship.

Edited May 5 by DarkCh0c0
Typo

[Batya33]

2 hours ago, EitherDare0 said:

"I just want you to know, that I like you. I am not just interested in casual hookups. I see potential with you. I know you aren't ready to jump into anything, but just know I don't hang around you or sleep with you like some "F*&# Boy. I actually have interest, so I would like to keep seeing you and see where it goes, without a lot of pressure."

I do think she regrets sleeping with me so early though. Not for lack of enjoyment, but because of emotional connection. She admitted she is hesitant because she doesn't want to get too attached too quickly. She has her own insecurities and I think she is afraid of being used too.

I would run if I heard that because it is so negative and burdening her with all your cynicsm and baggage.  It doesn't matter what she is afraid of. That's for her friends/therapist to help with.  She is choosing fear over closeness to you.  You framed it as what you didn't want based on people in your past and your past baggage far more than what you did want.  Also what does "see where it goes without a lot of pressure" mean? Do you intend to date this person with potential for a serious relationship? If so why all the caveats and assuming there will be "pressure?"  

There is no one right way -but I'll generally frame it for you - Him (after spending three platonic evenings together over a one month period after having been engaged 7 years previously) "Do you want to get back together with me?"  Me [hesitating for 30-60 seconds, somewhat teary, scared too!] YES!  Then two-three minute conversation to confirm: (1) we didn't want to date anyone else; (2) we wanted to date to see if this time we should marry [or you can insert instead "should get serious"); (3) I would be willing to relocate if we got married.  

No reference to our past break up.  No long verbiage about taking things slow/no pressure/how neither of us were looking for just sex or just a hook up.  Because when two adults want to be together the confirming conversation is positive, simple and direct.  Your hedging and jadedness and negativity told her you weren't confident at all that she was interested.  Not a good look IMO.

[EitherDare0]

12 minutes ago, DarkCh0c0 said:

I honestly think she might have been rebounding. When you rebound, the sex drive is high. Now the dust settled and she's back peddling cause emotions are kicking in. So you're in this grey area whereby she is healing/dealing with her feelings about you and the ex.

I'd say she's not ready date and she's being honest with you.

I don't know if you'd be happy to stay in this grey area... She might come to a point where she realizes she doesn't want you or anyone. You're just on hold depending on her process.

It's up to you to choose whether this arrangement works for you. I would personally out and stop investing into someone who isn't at a similar level and who has not moved on entirely from their ex relationship.

I agree, early on I think it was that. Which honestly I was fine with. I was the edgy bad boy who hiked and took care of her sexual needs, but then that was it.... Then somehow along the way I started to show my more empathetic side, hearing about her EX trauma, as someone who has been there. I let my guard down and got too close... and now she saw that side of me, I think it became harder for her to write me off as some douchy F boy who was fun to sleep with. 

 

Not sure what to do. I'm sort of hooked now. Not trying to make any aggressive moves any specific way, 

[EitherDare0]

17 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I would run if I heard that because it is so negative and burdening her with all your cynicsm and baggage.  It doesn't matter what she is afraid of. That's for her friends/therapist to help with.  She is choosing fear over closeness to you.  You framed it as what you didn't want based on people in your past and your past baggage far more than what you did want.  Also what does "see where it goes without a lot of pressure" mean? Do you intend to date this person with potential for a serious relationship? If so why all the caveats and assuming there will be "pressure?"  

There is no one right way -but I'll generally frame it for you - Him (after spending three platonic evenings together over a one month period after having been engaged 7 years previously) "Do you want to get back together with me?"  Me [hesitating for 30-60 seconds, somewhat teary, scared too!] YES!  Then two-three minute conversation to confirm: (1) we didn't want to date anyone else; (2) we wanted to date to see if this time we should marry [or you can insert instead "should get serious"); (3) I would be willing to relocate if we got married.  

No reference to our past break up.  No long verbiage about taking things slow/no pressure/how neither of us were looking for just sex or just a hook up.  Because when two adults want to be together the confirming conversation is positive, simple and direct.  Your hedging and jadedness and negativity told her you weren't confident at all that she was interested.  Not a good look IMO.

Why? It was easy to think prior all I wanted to casual hookups. I let her know that I think she's a good person and I would be interested in more. I do not just want to be FWBs or casual hookups. But I also acknowledge that she just got out of a relationship and I know she isnt ready to dive back in one.

That's extremely honest and genuine, something few people actually give in this damn world 

[DarkCh0c0]

7 minutes ago, EitherDare0 said:

Not sure what to do. I'm sort of hooked now. Not trying to make any aggressive moves any specific way, 

It's a tough one.

If you choose to stay, make sure to limit your emotional/time investment while she sorts her feelings out. It'll take a while. And there's no guarantee this will materialize into something deeper.

[bluecastle]

5 minutes ago, EitherDare0 said:

Not sure what to do.

There's really nothing to do here, save for being honest with yourself.

That means shaking off the whole insecurity-stoked narrative of being used, of being a f**k boy, of being a placeholder until she finds someone else, and all that, since that's you stuff that doesn't really have anything to do with her. Besides, those are tropes, generally deployed when people aren't getting what they want.

You're two adults, and, by the sounds of it, she's been explicit with you: She's skittish about anything that carries a whiff of a relationship—and, as such, is pulling back. It's not nearly as mysterious as you're making it out to be, but I get that the mystery can soften some of the discomfort, even have some aphrodisiacal qualities.

Your job is to decide if all that is good enough for you and/or how long you're willing to swim around in this gray zone to see if it can escalate and elevate to something resembling the thing you want. Whatever happens in that zone—little burns, big burns, her turning out to be emotionally available to someone who is not you, you reverting back to the safe-if-shallow space of hot edgy guy—would not be the outcome of some malicious act done by her, but the result of your own choice to roll the dice on a mustang.

My few more cents, for whatever it's worth? I've been a version of her, plenty, and not proudly. Hesitant, distant, fearful of attachment, and so on, while also being warm, open, physically intimate, letting someone get attached—because it felt really good and, hey, I sincerely wanted all that static to dissipate and sincerely hoped, when it did, I'd just truly want that person without all the hangups.

Thing I've found? It rarely happens. Never actually, in my experience. Maybe because on some level it's hard to take someone seriously as relationship material when they've already rewarded your emotional unavailability through affection and attention. That's kind of the bind you're in: the more you do what you're now doing, aside from hurting your feelings, risks having her think of you less and less as someone to actually be with.  

[boltnrun]

I did something similar to what you're doing with a guy I was involved with for FOUR years. I accommodated him, I didn't push or pry, I didn't make demands or set boundaries. I wanted him to feel like he could count on me to be someone he could be himself around. I told him "I'm the one you don't have to BS or tell lies to because I accept who you are." Know what that got me? Unceremoniously dumped for someone who DID demand that he treat her the way she insisted on being treated. He told me "I can't respect you because you let me walk all over you. You never put me in my place and you let me get away with anything." That's what I got for trying to be "cool" with whatever he wanted.

So yeah, you can hang around cuddling and making out and being sweet to her in the hopes it will make her fall in love with you. But maybe she prefers an "edgy" guy who doesn't want more than a hang out and a hookup. Maybe she wants something else entirely. Who knows. All you know is she told you she doesn't want to get emotionally attached to you. 

I wish I'd just bailed as soon as I saw that guy wasn't going to make me his girlfriend instead of hanging around trying to be who I thought he wanted.

[Batya33]

2 hours ago, EitherDare0 said:

Why? It was easy to think prior all I wanted to casual hookups. I let her know that I think she's a good person and I would be interested in more. I do not just want to be FWBs or casual hookups. But I also acknowledge that she just got out of a relationship and I know she isnt ready to dive back in one.

That's extremely honest and genuine, something few people actually give in this damn world 

There's a difference between honesty and choosing to dump all that negative/cynical stuff on someone you say you want to be with in a serious way.  If you genuinely feel that negative and have all that baggage and feel compelled to let her know that as part of asking her to be with you I'd say wait to resolve all that and feel genuinely positive about being with her (or anyone) before taking that step.

Same if you feel that negative about peoples' intentions.  I'm no Pollyanna but relationships are hard enough without that sort of chip on your shoulder.

Edited May 5 by Batya33

[Andrina]

1 hour ago, bluecastle said:

Maybe because on some level it's hard to take someone seriously as relationship material when they've already rewarded your emotional unavailability through affection and attention. That's kind of the bind you're in: the more you do what you're now doing, aside from hurting your feelings, risks having her think of you less and less as someone to actually be with.  

 

1 hour ago, boltnrun said:

He told me "I can't respect you because you let me walk all over you. You never put me in my place and you let me get away with anything." That's what I got for trying to be "cool" with whatever he wanted.

Yes, people appreciate doormats when it's muddy out, but don't give them any notice otherwise.

[bluecastle]

48 minutes ago, Andrina said:

Yes, people appreciate doormats when it's muddy out, but don't give them any notice otherwise.

Haha. Well put. 

Another way to think of it is: relationships are a bit like mirrors, in that a version of you is reflected back by another person. If that's not a version of yourself that you like, respect, or that you feel is true, when you come more into yourself you're going to be less likely to want to look into that mirror.

To the OP: 

I may be making assumptions here, but I get the sense that you've spent some time being hot edgy guy who doesn't get attached. Seems that something you're discovering in all this is that you're not that guy anymore, which is really great. Old habits and old modes of being, however, are like old sweaters: easy to slip into. So I'd just mentally reflect on whether you feel you are progressing right now or regressing, rather than putting that in terms of your connection.

 

[EitherDare0]

I pressed her a little bit more on it, and she told me what she goes by.

So my question was, we already crossed that barrier of touch several times. How do we just pretend that didn't happen and start from the beginning? She said it's not that we have to ignore it happened, but rather focus more of the other things. 

Edited May 6 by EitherDare0
spelling

[EitherDare0]

2 hours ago, Batya33 said:

There's a difference between honesty and choosing to dump all that negative/cynical stuff on someone you say you want to be with in a serious way.  If you genuinely feel that negative and have all that baggage and feel compelled to let her know that as part of asking her to be with you I'd say wait to resolve all that and feel genuinely positive about being with her (or anyone) before taking that step.

Same if you feel that negative about peoples' intentions.  I'm no Pollyanna but relationships are hard enough without that sort of chip on your shoulder.

What part of "Hey I know it's easy to assume I am some casual, hookup, carefree person, but please know I think you're pretty special and I am interested in you as more" is bad?

Early on, she thought I was only around to sleep with her or casually go with the flow, she didn't think I saw value in her as more. So I told her I did...

[boltnrun]

19 minutes ago, EitherDare0 said:

Early on, she thought I was only around to sleep with her or casually go with the flow, she didn't think I saw value in her as more. So I told her I did...

And she responded with "I don't want to get emotionally attached to you".

I imagine you were hoping for something more like "I see value in you as more too. Let's keep spending time together because so far things have been great." Unfortunately she chose to put up an emotional wall.

No rule against sticking around hoping she changes her mind, but don't alter yourself in any way to "try to get her to see" you in a different light. Be genuine and true to yourself.

[EitherDare0]

23 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

And she responded with "I don't want to get emotionally attached to you".

I imagine you were hoping for something more like "I see value in you as more too. Let's keep spending time together because so far things have been great." Unfortunately she chose to put up an emotional wall.

No rule against sticking around hoping she changes her mind, but don't alter yourself in any way to "try to get her to see" you in a different light. Be genuine and true to yourself.

It's "I don't want to get emotionally attached to you too soon."

She too is scared, doesn't want to rush things, or get into me too much for her own fears. 

[boltnrun]

9 minutes ago, EitherDare0 said:

It's "I don't want to get emotionally attached to you too soon."

She too is scared, doesn't want to rush things, or get into me too much for her own fears. 

So I presume you're looking for reassurance rather than advice.

I hope you remain true to yourself and don't try to "change" in an attempt to attract her or "get" her to want a relationship with you. Don't be willing to accept anything just to try to "keep" or "convince" her.

[Wiseman2]

It really boils down to: slow your roll. It's that simple .

[East4]

Like another poster said "slow your roll" and give it more time to get to know her as a person, with no sex involved. It is a new romance, just a few months. It is not something that has been going on for years, like in boultandrun's case.

I would reflect on the fact why you are so upset by her withholding the sex. It is not because of the sex, per se. You can survive a few months without sex, I believe. The problem is that the situation awakens your insecurity, your ego does not allow you to be the f*ck boy. You cannot stand the grey area before a relationship may/or may not form. These are the moments when the real self-confidence is tested. The insecure ones, quit, even if they adore the other person, because they cannot stand the uncertainty, the insecurity is driving them crazy. The self-assured strong ones, give it a time limit, say 3 months, to take a final decision, because the are confident that they can quit at any moment. And then the confident people relax and focus on enjoying the other person and getting to know them. Without pressuring them, like you do: if she had to explain you her relationship model, you have obviously been up her a§§ (figuratively speaking), pestering her with questions. The more you do that, the more she would withold from you the one thing that you want.

And how do you think, most women feel by dealing with vague, non-comital guys, being most of the time in the grey area? Women have learned the grey area management, but it seems that when a man is put in the grey zone, they just fall apart and either quit to protect their ego, or start crying like boys who did not receive an ice-cream when they want it. So, my advice would be to man-up and proceed like a woman with the grey-area-management. 😉 

Edited May 6 by East4

[Batya33]

9 hours ago, EitherDare0 said:

I pressed her a little bit more on it, and she told me what she goes by.

So my question was, we already crossed that barrier of touch several times. How do we just pretend that didn't happen and start from the beginning? She said it's not that we have to ignore it happened, but rather focus more of the other things. 

If that's what she goes by to that extent (meaning not just glancing at a post on FB with a chart, saying "hmm that's interesting" and scrolling by) then leave her to her charts because she is very obviously not looking for a relationship with an individual person.  That's like when certain pregnant women try desperately to find charts like that so that they can connect the dots somehow and if they just do a, b and c their baby will eat and sleep regularly from the moment she or he is born, mom will sleep too and mom and baby of course will bond cause she followed the chart.  Please.

Edited May 6 by Batya33

[Batya33]

8 hours ago, EitherDare0 said:

It's "I don't want to get emotionally attached to you too soon."

She too is scared, doesn't want to rush things, or get into me too much for her own fears. 

Right -she's choosing fear over dating and getting to know you at a reasonable pace over time.  She's choosing fear, she's choosing to distance herself from you = she doesn't want a relationship with you badly enough.

[Kwothe28]

10 hours ago, EitherDare0 said:

I pressed her a little bit more on it, and she told me what she goes by.

 

I googled it. Are you telling me that she read a "self-help" book(or watched Oprah or whoever is promoting that BS) and now want to tune in your relationship like its some old radio player where you just magically go up and down in certain areas until the sound is perfect? Not how it works.

10 hours ago, EitherDare0 said:

How do we just pretend that didn't happen and start from the beginning?

Again, not how it works OP. You already passed that boundary. Even if you didnt, she clearly doesnt know you and trust you enough. That is why she is hitting the brakes. You can try not being passionate as much as you want. But again, you are overinvesting way too much. With somebody who is hitting the brakes with you and telling you she doesnt trust you enough to touch you? See how ludacris that sounds for something that should be progressing in normal pace? 

Its your life. Just telling you that you are in the world of pain. And that you will get hurt there. When she goes to her ex or somebody else. Where some imaginary graph she read in self help book or found online wont be required for her to dedicate herself to that relationship.

[Wiseman2]

12 hours ago, EitherDare0 said:

I pressed her a little bit more on it, and she told me what she goes by.

So my question was, we already crossed that barrier of touch several times. How do we just pretend that didn't happen and start from the beginning? 

Why pretend anything? She is telling you she wants to slow her roll. She's not friendzoning you but she also  doesn't want casual sex. Keep it simple. If she needs graphs to explain it to you, then there's some reflecting do on your methods as well as her availability.

[Andrina]

Do you have a personal timeline on how long you'll allow yourself to stay in this limbo? Two months, a year and a half? Something to consider.

[boltnrun]

13 hours ago, EitherDare0 said:

I pressed her a little bit more on it

Also, why do you keep "pressing her"? Either you can wait for her to decide if she wants to get into a relationship with you or you can't. "Pressing her" isn't going to force her to make up her mind immediately. It'll likely do the opposite (hence, the graph she sent you...she seems to be telling you to take it down a notch or ten).

[boltnrun]

16 minutes ago, inst1997.07yr said:

will u run to street ? 

I think that runing away is the foolish thing u can day , stay home , work ,study  until you're steady and stable , and aible to make your own home , Home is needed place , safety , happiness ..... 

He wasn't asking if he should run away from home 😆