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Oh no, another one of the "does she dig me" threads.


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2 minutes ago, HemispheresX1 said:

I'm talking about both actually. I realize not all attempts to ask someone out may lead to this but that's the ultimate goal. 

OK cool.  I'm sure if you start dating someone the issue of whether you have compatible life goals including relationship goals will come up fairly soon especially if you date someone around your age.

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You maybe dont have too much experience. So you think of her like some mythical creature. Where you need to amaze her first before you even get any shot with her. It usually doesnt work like that.

She is just a girl. Heck, until you get to know her she is just some girl. So think of her like that. So if you call her out on drink think of her in that way. If she says "Yes" you would get a chance to get to know  her. If she says "No", or "I am busy, maybe some other time"(the other form of "No" btw) its no big deal, because, again, she is just some girl. It would ease the tension and probably do wonders for you going forward. Because just dreaming about some girl and maybe planning to ask her for coffee sometimes, will not get you anywhere. And even if she says  "No" you have to have a healthy attitude about it and dont take it as something tragic. Because, again, she is just some girl.

I do get that you probably dont, heck, maybe wont ever see it in that way. Just saying that you should ease up. And just call that girl for coffee. Even that coffee can just be a coffee. And it would be nothing wrong with that. Think of it as a chance to find something more about her and if she is for you. Because you daydreaming about perfect moment to ask her out, or inventing excuses like "She probably has a boyfriend" will not get you anywhere and you would just lose time like that never to know the answer if maybe it can be something there. 

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6 hours ago, Kwothe28 said:

You maybe dont have too much experience. So you think of her like some mythical creature. Where you need to amaze her first before you even get any shot with her. It usually doesnt work like that.

She is just a girl. Heck, until you get to know her she is just some girl. So think of her like that. So if you call her out on drink think of her in that way. If she says "Yes" you would get a chance to get to know  her. If she says "No", or "I am busy, maybe some other time"(the other form of "No" btw) its no big deal, because, again, she is just some girl. It would ease the tension and probably do wonders for you going forward. Because just dreaming about some girl and maybe planning to ask her for coffee sometimes, will not get you anywhere. And even if she says  "No" you have to have a healthy attitude about it and dont take it as something tragic. Because, again, she is just some girl.

I do get that you probably dont, heck, maybe wont ever see it in that way. Just saying that you should ease up. And just call that girl for coffee. Even that coffee can just be a coffee. And it would be nothing wrong with that. Think of it as a chance to find something more about her and if she is for you. Because you daydreaming about perfect moment to ask her out, or inventing excuses like "She probably has a boyfriend" will not get you anywhere and you would just lose time like that never to know the answer if maybe it can be something there. 

Well daydreaming and hypersensitivity to rejection is part of my diagnosis and why I sought out therapy, but thanks for the analysis I guess. 

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5 hours ago, HemispheresX1 said:

Well daydreaming and hypersensitivity to rejection is part of my diagnosis and why I sought out therapy, but thanks for the analysis I guess. 

Dating requires a thick skin.  I had one.  I didn't feel rejected as a person if a stranger didn't want to meet me or if I didn't get a call after a first or second date.  For me dating was only worth it because I wanted marriage and family.  Otherwise it wouldn't have been worth the time, stress, effort.  I'm not a professional in these matters -to me everyone is sensitive to rejection and I'm not sure what hypersensitive means or how that presents but ok. 

As far as daydreaming that is why I asked you about why you just want to be "in love" as opposed to in love and being committed to the person you're in love with.  You said to you it was about giving to another person as well as the feeling but if the "in love" goal is part of your daydreaming I'd reconsider whether you truly want to get to know a woman as an individual and have dates where you show your loving feelings by being her partner, her supporter, her cheerleader, by rolling up your sleeves and giving in the way that works for her, even if it requires compromise and sacrifice, if you have the time to invest. 

And you won't want a marital type commitment to this person so this person will of course also be dating or looking to date others.  As will you. 

You may achieve that state of "in love" both as a feeling and desire to give and consider whether that will be fulfilling on its own while your person is out there dating others so that your giving, your time, your effort, your energy - doesn't really build towards anything permanent with a future but kind of more like groundhog day -romantic, loving dates where you sort of have to start over each time because she most likely will be going on romantic loving dates with others too. 

Most women I know -with exception -if they wish to date either want something casual without getting that attached emotionally or get attached with the goal of a future-whether marriage or similar commitment.  You'll be looking for a unicorn.

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Posted (edited)
42 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Dating requires a thick skin.  I had one.  I didn't feel rejected as a person if a stranger didn't want to meet me or if I didn't get a call after a first or second date.  For me dating was only worth it because I wanted marriage and family.  Otherwise it wouldn't have been worth the time, stress, effort.  I'm not a professional in these matters -to me everyone is sensitive to rejection and I'm not sure what hypersensitive means or how that presents but ok. 

As far as daydreaming that is why I asked you about why you just want to be "in love" as opposed to in love and being committed to the person you're in love with.  You said to you it was about giving to another person as well as the feeling but if the "in love" goal is part of your daydreaming I'd reconsider whether you truly want to get to know a woman as an individual and have dates where you show your loving feelings by being her partner, her supporter, her cheerleader, by rolling up your sleeves and giving in the way that works for her, even if it requires compromise and sacrifice, if you have the time to invest. 

And you won't want a marital type commitment to this person so this person will of course also be dating or looking to date others.  As will you. 

You may achieve that state of "in love" both as a feeling and desire to give and consider whether that will be fulfilling on its own while your person is out there dating others so that your giving, your time, your effort, your energy - doesn't really build towards anything permanent with a future but kind of more like groundhog day -romantic, loving dates where you sort of have to start over each time because she most likely will be going on romantic loving dates with others too. 

Most women I know -with exception -if they wish to date either want something casual without getting that attached emotionally or get attached with the goal of a future-whether marriage or similar commitment.  You'll be looking for a unicorn.

Women tend to fall in love over time kind of unintentionally as a consequence of finding someone they really mesh with and see a future with. I hate to sound like an ass but they definitely don't love unconditionally like men do. 

This fact is fine with me. 

Edited by HemispheresX1
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21 minutes ago, HemispheresX1 said:

Women tend to fall in love over time kind of unintentionally as a consequence of finding someone they really mesh with and see a future with. I hate to sound like an ass but they definitely don't love unconditionally like men do. 

This fact is fine with me. 

Well not true of most people and not a gender thing.  If you really feel that way about women I suggest you don't date for now as it's unfair to have that sort of bias.  You won't enter a dating relationship with a mind open enough to treat her as an individual. 

Feelings are unintentional.  Reactions to feelings are within our control.  So if I "unintentionally" felt loving feelings for a married man or a man who didn't want kids, or a man who had one of the dealbreakers on my list when I was dating I reacted by not continuing my interaction with him so I didn't waste precious time on a bad match.  I felt very angry at my son this morning for getting the floor all wet again.  He wanted me to show him how best to clean it up and because my body felt angry I handed him the towel -I didn't put my hand on top of his on the towel because I was worried that my tense body might unintentionally put too much force on his hand.  I felt angry -a feeling I could not control.  I reacted to that feeling by choosing to keep my body physically away from his in an abundance of caution. My reaction was within my control.  Just like feeling loving feelings and choosing how to react.

It's not "as a consequence of" - and if you said you don't want a marriage or marital commitment why would you lead a woman on to fall in love wiht you as a consequence of seeing a future with you you choose not to give to her -as you wrote above.

It's not a fact what you wrote -ask your therapist. It's your opinion and it's wrong, factually (you daydream you said so of course it might be true to you in your dreams).  Most people don't love their partners unconditionally -I have conditions.  If he heaven forbid abused me or cheated on me I might still love him but would strongly consider divorce depending on the circumstances.  I love my child unconditionally. (And not just because of biology- he is my bio child and I would feel the same if adopted, etc).  It's different. Some people love their partners unconditionally.  It's not gendered.

Edited by Batya33
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Posted (edited)

  

27 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Well not true of most people and not a gender thing.  If you really feel that way about women I suggest you don't date for now as it's unfair to have that sort of bias.  You won't enter a dating relationship with a mind open enough to treat her as an individual. 

Feelings are unintentional.  Reactions to feelings are within our control.  So if I "unintentionally" felt loving feelings for a married man or a man who didn't want kids, or a man who had one of the dealbreakers on my list when I was dating I reacted by not continuing my interaction with him so I didn't waste precious time on a bad match.  I felt very angry at my son this morning for getting the floor all wet again.  He wanted me to show him how best to clean it up and because my body felt angry I handed him the towel -I didn't put my hand on top of his on the towel because I was worried that my tense body might unintentionally put too much force on his hand.  I felt angry -a feeling I could not control.  I reacted to that feeling by choosing to keep my body physically away from his in an abundance of caution. My reaction was within my control.  Just like feeling loving feelings and choosing how to react.

It's not "as a consequence of" - and if you said you don't want a marriage or marital commitment why would you lead a woman on to fall in love wiht you as a consequence of seeing a future with you you choose not to give to her -as you wrote above.

It's not a fact what you wrote -ask your therapist. It's your opinion and it's wrong, factually (you daydream you said so of course it might be true to you in your dreams).  Most people don't love their partners unconditionally -I have conditions.  If he heaven forbid abused me or cheated on me I might still love him but would strongly consider divorce depending on the circumstances.  I love my child unconditionally. (And not just because of biology- he is my bio child and I would feel the same if adopted, etc).  It's different. Some people love their partners unconditionally.  It's not gendered.

 

Just my observations from past relationships and most of the marriages in the family which have failed. 

Generally the in relationship (speaking from my experience) I love until I end up hurt and then it's over with for good. On the womans end once she's fed up (even though I did nothing wrong - she was an emotional wreck who constantly argued) she ends things. The only exception being my brief stint with a girl in high school who cussed me out because she left me behind in at a water park which ended up with me getting silver dollar sized blisters on my feet looking for her since I couldn't find my darned flip flops. She cussed me out because I asked another girl to get the lifeguard for me and apparently she was spying on me the whole dang time as if I had done something wrong when she's the one who walked off and left me. Anyways I broke things off with her immediately following that because I had nothing emotionally invested in the relationship. 

The family marriages on the other hand, the men were dropped like hot rocks. No mercy what so ever in most cases. I think one or two divorces were mutual but a few others were straight to the point. I specifically remember my Grandparents who raised me. At some point my grandmother who was a difficult woman to deal with made my grandfather go to couples therapy. Eventually this therapist suggested my grandfather was a bad father for working so much and not being there with his kids all the time. Eventually they split up and my grandfather was miserable as can be, but they decided to get back together because divorce was frowned upon in their religion and generation - also becasue they realized they did really love each other.  So yes it can go both ways but my observations and past experiences lead me to believe men find it harder to walk away than women do. 

Edited by HemispheresX1
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19 minutes ago, HemispheresX1 said:

it can go both ways but my observations and past experiences lead me to believe men find it harder to walk away than women do. 

Try to remove this negative script from your mind. It only increases your anxiety for something as simple as having coffee with a nice woman you met.

Skip all the psychoanalysis, negative spin and make a new healthy dialogue in your mind, in which you write the script and the rules.

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6 hours ago, HemispheresX1 said:

Well daydreaming and hypersensitivity to rejection is part of my diagnosis and why I sought out therapy, but thanks for the analysis I guess. 

Yes, I had a feeling about that, that is why I said that you might not ever see it in a way I said it. Just saying this would maybe take a lot better turn if you maybe take that approach. Because again, you shouldnt take it all that seriously. No matter what happened at the end.

Also, what you feel is not that out of the ordinary. Lots of young or inexperienced people do it, have crushes, daydreams etc. But in time you should be able to "release" of that. In a way that you shouldnt see her as some unicorn. But just as some girl that you get the chance to interact. For example, do you think even people who approach girls regularly dont take rejections? Because i can tell you they do. But they dont see it as something tragic and just move on. One girl didnt want them, some else will. Whereas people who daydream, they do it for months. Sometimes dont even take a move. And if they do and they get rejected its tragic. So you would potentially lost months on some girl that you dont even know. Just to maybe ask her out. While you could have done that on the spot when she said "not my cup of tea" and you could have said "Well, maybe we can catch that cup of tea after". There, your opening. And if she says "No", you would know your answer and move on with your life. 

Just saying that you are getting the wrong approach about whole "meeting someone and asking out" thing. And that with maybe a change in that you would probably take all this way better and feel better overall. 

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41 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Try to remove this negative script from your mind. It only increases your anxiety for something as simple as having coffee with a nice woman you met.

Skip all the psychoanalysis, negative spin and make a new healthy dialogue in your mind, in which you write the script and the rules.

Well if you think about it it's much easier for women to find a new mate than it is for men, so therefore it would be easier for women to walk away. Just a thought. 

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7 minutes ago, HemispheresX1 said:

Well if you think about it it's much easier for women to find a new mate than it is for men, so therefore it would be easier for women to walk away. 

Exactly this type of negative thinking is hindering you. It's not a marriage or mate. It's a cup of coffee.

If therapy is not changing your myths and negativity, perhaps see a physician and get a referral to an effective therapist.

What's the point of irrelevant and untrue rhetorical discussions if all you want is to ask someone for coffee?

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Exactly this type of negative thinking is hindering you. It's not a marriage or mate. It's a cup of coffee.

If therapy is not changing your myths and negativity, perhaps see a physician and get a referral to an effective therapist.

What's the point of irrelevant and untrue rhetorical discussions if all you want is to ask someone for coffee?

I'm only two therapy sessions in. And my rhetorical questions were directed towards another member in regards to me ultimate goal of finding a partner.  

Edited by HemispheresX1
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So you've observed what, maybe six or eight relationships where the woman chose to end it and based on that handful of observations you've concluded that women don't love as much as men do?

Just read some of the threads on this forum written by women who have been broken up with by men. I bet you could find more than eight instances where the woman is heartbroken and fervently hoping for reconciliation.

If you do ask one of these women out,what would be your goal? Companionship? Sex? A casual arrangement? If a woman accepts a date from you, please be honest if she asks what your relationship goals are so she doesn't "unintentionally" fall in love with you.

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12 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

So you've observed what, maybe six or eight relationships where the woman chose to end it and based on that handful of observations you've concluded that women don't love as much as men do?

Just read some of the threads on this forum written by women who have been broken up with by men. I bet you could find more than eight instances where the woman is heartbroken and fervently hoping for reconciliation.

If you do ask one of these women out,what would be your goal? Companionship? Sex? A casual arrangement? If a woman accepts a date from you, please be honest if she asks what your relationship goals are so she doesn't "unintentionally" fall in love with you.

Companionship. 

My full diagnosis is Bi Polar 1, Avoidant Personality Disorder and PTSD. So yes there's some abandonment issues in there, but I do find it easier for women to at least break off relationships unless the man wasn't emotionally invested to begin with. No reason for ya'll to get so butthurt. 

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1 hour ago, HemispheresX1 said:

I'm only two therapy sessions in. 

Ok make sure you are following up with your psychiatrist and physician. The negativity and your mind spinning in all directions is something the therapist needs to be aware of in order to appropriately address the BPD and possibly review and adjust the medications.

Going from "cup of coffee" to grandparents divorces, women's supposed advantages and all this, could be manic flights of ideas. You're all over the place. See your physician/psychiatrist asap.

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Yeah I'm not manic. Simply responding to people's comments. A manic flight of ideas is when a someone is running from topic to topic in SINGLE conversation. Not holding several conversations at once. 

I can manage my illness fine on my own thank you. I've been through enough *** due to poor management of it that I've learned how to properly care for my mental wellbeing. 

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54 minutes ago, HemispheresX1 said:

Companionship. 

My full diagnosis is Bi Polar 1, Avoidant Personality Disorder and PTSD. So yes there's some abandonment issues in there, but I do find it easier for women to at least break off relationships unless the man wasn't emotionally invested to begin with. No reason for ya'll to get so butthurt. 

Then no reason at all not to suggest a friendly coffee. Just be transparent that it's a friendly outing. Ask to "meet" for coffee rather than asking to take her out for coffee.

However, if you just want companionship why ask if she "digs" you? Friends generally don't become friends because one of them "digs" the other. At least, real friendships that don't have ulterior motives.

And thanks, but my butt doesn't hurt at all. I've been broken up with a few times and recovered just fine. 

Edited by boltnrun
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3 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

Then no reason at all not to suggest a friendly coffee. Just be transparent that it's a friendly outing. Ask to "meet" for coffee rather than asking to take her out for coffee.

However, if you just want companionship why ask if she "digs" you? Friends generally don't become friends because one of them "digs" the other. At least, real friendships that don't have ulterior motives.

And thanks, but my butt doesn't hurt at all. I've been broken up with a few times and recovered just fine. 

Maybe I should have clarified. 

Romantic Companionship. I'm not seeking someone to marry of have kids with so I just refer to it as companionship. 

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2 minutes ago, HemispheresX1 said:

Maybe I should have clarified. 

Romantic Companionship. I'm not seeking someone to marry of have kids with so I just refer to it as companionship. 

There's no such thing unless you mean being good friends first and then deciding to also have a sexual arrangement.  Companionship is platonic.  A person hearing that phrase is going to be understandably confused.  Also do you mean you will go on dates with this person or simply hang out together and hook up when the mood strikes you?

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10 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

There's no such thing unless you mean being good friends first and then deciding to also have a sexual arrangement.  Companionship is platonic.  A person hearing that phrase is going to be understandably confused.  Also do you mean you will go on dates with this person or simply hang out together and hook up when the mood strikes you?

Dating, eventual relationship, moving in together - basically a marriage without actually getting married and having children. 

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Just now, HemispheresX1 said:

Dating, eventual relationship, moving in together - basically a marriage without actually getting married and having children. 

OK so you are in your 30s and want to meet a woman around your age who doesn't want children or marriage but does want to share physical living space and be exclusive and monogamous.  And I presume this person would not already have children. Sure, there are people who want that -less likely in your age range (as opposed to women in their mid to late 40s who may already have been married and not want to get married again).  I'd be up front about the no marriage/kids ASAP.  

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

OK so you are in your 30s and want to meet a woman around your age who doesn't want children or marriage but does want to share physical living space and be exclusive and monogamous.  And I presume this person would not already have children. Sure, there are people who want that -less likely in your age range (as opposed to women in their mid to late 40s who may already have been married and not want to get married again).  I'd be up front about the no marriage/kids ASAP.  

I intend to. I certainly don't want to waste anyone's time as I don't want my own time wasted, however I always said no marriage in the past but when I met "the one" who eventually broke up with me I reconsidered so that might change. 

Edited by HemispheresX1
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The lad has a point, divorce--for example--is overwhelmingly filed by wives.  That's a statistical fact.

The are other generalizations out there which are statistically true but they shouldn't affect your day-to-day interactions with individuals.

I don't know about the whole "unconditional love" thing.  There should always be conditions.  I mean, what, you should be able to cheat on them repeatedly, harm or kill their child, etc. and you still think you're entitled to "unconditional love"?  There should always be dealbreakers.

From someone who has dumped lots of men in her time, make sure you are an asset and not a liability in a relationship and you should be fine.

I have thoughts about going down the list asking multiple women out for "coffee" who all volunteer at the same place and therefore presumably know each other, too.  Don't do that because we find out and you become the workplace joke.

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10 minutes ago, HemispheresX1 said:

I intend to. I certainly don't want to waste anyone's time as I don't want my own time wasted, however I always said no marriage in the past but when I met "the one" who eventually broke up with me I reconsidered so that might change. 

Yes, just be honest with whoever that you're not looking for marriage in any general or specific way.  The "it could happen" likely will mean nothing to a woman in her 30s who wants a marriage-minded man.  (I would never have met or gone on a date with a man who felt that way about marriage - or had any personally negative views on marriage -I did a lot of dating from age 30-39).

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